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Author Topic: Espace 2.0 Petrol 16V 2001 (JE0LL5/F4R) - Starting and dashboard problems  (Read 4610 times)
steamrunner
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« on: September 21, 2009, 08:46:38 pm »

Hi all,

I have a 2001 Espace 2.0 16v Petrol (JE0LL5 with F4R engine) and am getting some serious grief from it. I'm not a car person, so apologies if I'm a bit light on info here, but right now the thought of expensive dealer repairs is not a good one, so hence asking the collective wisdom here for insight!

Essentially, it won't start under it's own steam. I have to jump start it to get it going. However, the battery seems fine, and I think the alternator is probably OK (?) as the battery measures 11.5v with the engine off and 14v with the engine running idle. I took the battery out and put it on a charger to double-check but the charger said the battery was fine and charged pretty much immediately.

If the car has been off for a while there is basically no power at all when I first turn the ignition to switch the electrics on. Maybe a tiny flicker, but usually nothing. If the car has just been running a while (but then switched off) I usually get electric power to the dash and interior lights, but as soon as I try to switch on the engine the electrics immediately die and nothing happens.  When the engine is running idle I notice that the dash and interior lights tend to flicker a bit.

What's more:  if I drive the vehicle, the speedometer remains at zero and the total mileage recorder doesn't count up. That doesn't sound too good.   I also had the ABS dashboard light come on permanently, but that appeared to be because the ABS fuse had blown (replacing that fixed it).

The car is basically as it came from the original dealer - just the default alarm, stereo, immobiliser etc. No add-ons or changes that I know of. I've had it since it was new.

Any one any thoughts or ideas on what might be wrong or what I should maybe be looking at?

All input gratefully received and appreciated!

(PS: like all other Espace Mk3 owners, I hate the bloody tailgate too! :-)

S.

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steamrunner
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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2009, 01:04:50 pm »

Bump... anyone? any ideas?! Even vague ones??  Thx, S.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2009, 08:48:18 pm »

Essentially, it won't start under it's own steam. I have to jump start it to get it going. However, the battery seems fine...

I beg to differ.

Quote
... and I think the alternator is probably OK (?) as the battery measures 11.5v with the engine off...

A good battery should measure 12.6 volts and certainly not below 12 volts.

Quote
... and 14v with the engine running idle.

So the charging system seems about right.  (13.4 to 14.4 volts charging)

Quote
I took the battery out and put it on a charger to double-check but the charger said the battery was fine and charged pretty much immediately.

If the battery was only 11.5v then the charger should start charge immediately and bring it back to around 13 volts

Quote
If the car has been off for a while there is basically no power at all when I first turn the ignition to switch the electrics on. Maybe a tiny flicker, but usually nothing.

Because the battery cannot hold a charge...

Quote
If the car has just been running a while (but then switched off) I usually get electric power to the dash and interior lights, but as soon as I try to switch on the engine the electrics immediately die and nothing happens.

Because what little power is in the battery is only sufficient to light the dash lights (small current).  It cannot cope with the huge current (by comparison with the dash lights) that is required to start the engine.

Get the battery tested for load capacity or simply put another one on and you will probably find all is well.

Roy
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2009, 08:50:07 pm »

Essentially, it won't start under it's own steam. I have to jump start it to get it going. However, the battery seems fine, and I think the alternator is probably OK (?) as the battery measures 11.5v with the engine off and 14v with the engine running idle. I took the battery out and put it on a charger to double-check but the charger said the battery was fine and charged pretty much immediately.

If the car has been off for a while there is basically no power at all when I first turn the ignition to switch the electrics on. Maybe a tiny flicker, but usually nothing. If the car has just been running a while (but then switched off) I usually get electric power to the dash and interior lights, but as soon as I try to switch on the engine the electrics immediately die and nothing happens.  When the engine is running idle I notice that the dash and interior lights tend to flicker a bit.


To me it sounds like a poor battery - 11.5v is too little plus your symptoms makes me suspect this.

What's more:  if I drive the vehicle, the speedometer remains at zero and the total mileage recorder doesn't count up. That doesn't sound too good.   I also had the ABS dashboard light come on permanently, but that appeared to be because the ABS fuse had blown (replacing that fixed it).

Firstly the ABS system is sensitive to low voltage - so i would fix that issue first.
The speedometer also gets its speed information from the ABS computer in this one, and blown fuse in addition to zero speed means either
A - faulty computer
B - poor connection on the ABS computer (mounted on the ABS pump) - check for signs of corrosion and clean
C - faulty wiring in the ABS system

A proper diagnose would tell more about this, by reading the ABS system you can read the speed from ABS system. If that shows zero and all wheel sensors etc is okay you probably have a computer fault.
I would however try to re-program the speed index value first to see if that helps (software is software)

If speed shows fine on diagnostics i would look on connectors and wiring.

Speed signal is a square LO-HI signal and is wired like this:
ABS --> ECU --> BII unit -->(CAN Bus)--> Instrument cluster
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
steamrunner
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2009, 10:54:50 am »

Hi!   Thanks to both of you for the responses - very much appreciated.

I did say cars weren't my thing :-)  Yep, don't know where I got the "11.5v OK" idea in my head - but you're absolutely right.  Swapping the battery (again) in the car has returned things to normal. Aside from starting OK the speedo is working again (what was that all about?!) and, as a bonus, the rear passenger side door now appears to lock properly again (I hadn't mentioned that before!). Simple stuff.   I'll stick to computer and IT networks, which is my normal thing!

Thanks again!

S.
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2009, 10:26:36 am »

Aside from starting OK the speedo is working again (what was that all about?!)

The ABS computer is very sensitive to low voltage especially on startup so i guess thats the answer that first comes to mind.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
roy4matra
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Posts: 869



« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2009, 10:25:07 am »

Swapping the battery (again) in the car has returned things to normal.

Good, thanks for the feedback.

Quote
Aside from starting OK the speedo is working again (what was that all about?!)

The speedometer on this car (and many others today) no longer use a cable drive from the gearbox, but get their electronic signals from the ABS computer.  The ABS computer takes readings from all wheel sensors and averages them to give the speed signal for the car.  Since your voltage was low, the ABS computer was not functioning correctly, much like other items (like that door lock) so these things cannot work properly.

Roy
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