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Author Topic: Oh, the joy of owning an old Murena ;-)  (Read 10351 times)
Jon Weywadt
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« on: January 05, 2010, 10:45:57 pm »

As I reported elsewhere I had finished installing the new stainless cooling and heating pipes. the engine had been run until warm and all the air was out of the system. But the weather had been bad, so after just a few short trips the car sat for a few weeks.

Then just before Chistmas I decided to take advantage of a sunny day and go for a ride. Turned the egnition key and it cranked a few times, sputtered but had too much choker. Second attempt didn't quite catch either. Third attempt...... nothing. The electric fuel pump buzzed, the lights worked, battery was ok, but not a sound from the starter or selenoid.

So I had to go to work in a dinky, tiny Suzuki. Angry

After Christmas I checked the starter switch, which was OK, so I jacked up the car and checked the wireing to the selenoid. It turned out to be a loose wire and a simple fix. Cheesy

So I took the car out for a ride only to discover that it fogged up because the blower now didn't work. (It had been fine the previous time I drove the car)   Angry

Diagnostics of the circuit to the blower proved that power was Ok up to the compartment with the blower. So the blower had to come out. This happened this past weekend and it turned out that one of the brushes was stuck in grime and the commutator was burnt.

So I threw the motor end with the brushes into my ultrasound bath and cleaned it out good, then soaked the bearing in oil. While it was cleaning I clamped the motor shaft into drill stand and touched up the commutator with a fine file, followed by some polishing cloth. cleaned the groves between the contacts and assembled the motor. It now worked like a charm.

Took the opportunity to make a template of the cover plate for the blower compartment for a future stainless steel replacement  Wink but also painted the original with Hammerite.

Now assembled you would think I was ready to roll. Alas. as I refilled the sprinkler container, fluid leaked out the bottom around the rubber grommet holding the motor to the tank. Angry

So, while I try to figure out how to fix this without destroying tank or motor by prying it free (the rubber is not very pliable anymore) the car sits, nearly ready to roll. Grin

Oh well. It is snowing outside anyway and the roads are covered and slick. I would not drive it anyway until it is gone, so where did I put my sleigh. and did I feed the reindeer?? Gotta go check.

Happy New year everyone. I hope you enjoy your cars too.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 05:27:40 am »

I admire you for your positive attitude. Your car is really playing with you! I can recommend buying a new washer/sprinkler bottle complete with pump - Biltema has a decent one which is quite cheap. I'm passing by Biltema Malm÷ next week, let me know if you need anything (or want to join?)

With proper winter/snow tyres, the Murena is a great drive on slippery roads! I'm going out today Cheesy

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 09:17:07 pm »

I admire you for your positive attitude. Your car is really playing with you! I can recommend buying a new washer/sprinkler bottle complete with pump - Biltema has a decent one which is quite cheap. I'm passing by Biltema Malm÷ next week, let me know if you need anything (or want to join?)

With proper winter/snow tyres, the Murena is a great drive on slippery roads! I'm going out today Cheesy

/Anders
Hi Anders.
Thanks for the kind words. As much trouble as the car seems to give (and it IS sometimes disappointing not just to hop in and drive) I truely enjoy working on it. The primary reason is that, in spite of its age, it is not about to disintegrate into a pile of rust. It is not a loosing battle, as it would be with most other cars that age. Cheesy Cheesy
I already bought a new sprinkler from Simon, but that was a disappointment as it was not an original and less than half the volume. It still sits in my shop waiting for a headlight cleaner project. Grin The one I have now is a spare that Jan had, as my original had cracked.

/Jon.
PS. here are some pictures of the last endavour.

After drilling the pop rivets out you have to pry the plate down to swing it free (there are two rivets on top, right and left of the bolts, one left on the flange to the fender, two along the bottom in the fender well, and finally two behind the sprinkler bottle)
That exposes the heater motor
The mounting bolts are marked on the picture (10 mm wrench)
It seemed stuck, so my snake-cam showed that it was the duct holding it
Popped the connector free and out it came. Total time 20 min.
Last shot is inside the cavity where it sat. Notice the drain hole.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 09:57:01 pm by Jon Weywadt » Logged

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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2010, 09:46:39 pm »

I guess I should add some pictures of the motor renovation also. Grin

After unscrewing the motor assembly from the blower housing, getting the blower wheel off the axle requires holding the wheel between your knees and pound out the axle with a punch and a hammer. It is pressed onto the axle and has a spring around the plastic of the wheel holding it tight (you cannot get to the spring)
Once off, disassembling the motor revealed that the brushes were stuck in the housing and not making contact to the commutator, which is blackened as result.
After cleaning and pulling the brushes all the way back, it is possible to insert a small pin or nail from outside the housing, holding the brush back while assembling the motor. (pic 3 + 4) (The nail goes behind the loop of the wire outside the brush housing)
While cleaning, the commutator was touched up with a file and some polishing cloth. (Notice how burnt it is due to the sticking brushes. If yours runs slow, you now know why)
Don't forget to clean the groves so you don't leave filings that can short it out.
Clean the axle and lube the bearings well before assembling the motor.

Result - a motor that runs like new. Well almost new. Wink
And the whole job can be done in one afternoon.  Cheesy
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 09:29:44 pm by Jon Weywadt » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2010, 10:43:18 pm »

Nice work and pics.
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Jan Verdam
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 09:42:26 am »

I realy like this work - that's what repairing is about. Not only change everything like they do it at these times in all services, but finding a reason of the problem and repairing it, great!  Wink
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Oetker
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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2010, 08:05:09 am »

Nice tutorial Jon.
Helping the motor this way can make it work, however i am not a big fan for doing it this way.
If the metal bearing is not warned out to far it wi last for some time.
This motor is a weak spot in the Murena, and the air that come out the vents is a very small breeze.
Also the bearings can make the motor run slow and asking so much current that the switch burn out in the dash (real firerisk).
I am still on the lookout for something better.
On the junkyard I found a few sets from Golf II that may fit after some mods on the housing.
They give twice as much air.
Only problem is that most used Golf II airmotors are even in a worse state then the one in the Murena.
This summer I will take it out to look if I can fit something else.
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Oskar
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2010, 10:42:58 pm »

its a funny car, its like a fragile human. you must treat it well so it will stay happy Smiley

i took a trip to pick up some sushi in a town in sweden during summer 2008.
on the way from the store outside a big hotel with restaurant it wouldnt start. Nothing!
I had no clue what was wrong and started looking around... people gatherd and was interested in the car.
even a couple came to it and he started talking and asking if it was an old porsche. she asnt to amused Wink

but it was a loose cable to the battery and then it fired up gently and I got home just in time
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peugeot 205 gti
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Bart_Maztra
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 06:55:32 am »

On the junkyard I found a few sets from Golf II that may fit after some mods on the housing.
They give twice as much air.
Only problem is that most used Golf II airmotors are even in a worse state then the one in the Murena.
This summer I will take it out to look if I can fit something else.

It seems that older toyota fan should fit without mods. And that's japanese quality.
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michaltalbot
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 09:31:25 am »

Old connectors are often problematic. Half a year ago, my Murena did the same (not even a click after turning the key) and it was only plus connector fallen away. Similar as on my old silver Murena, one day on the trip 100km far away from home, it stopped and wasn't able to start - fallen connector from ign.coil. It's because of many times demounting and connectors doesn't hold too strong.
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Matra_Hans
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 11:28:33 am »


It seems that older toyota fan should fit without mods. And that's japanese quality.
[/quote]
I have done it: i.e. installed a Toyota Starlet fan in the Murena.  Result: More air through the system, the fan is silent, more powerful, more reliable.

Hans
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 05:51:14 pm »


It seems that older toyota fan should fit without mods. And that's japanese quality.
I have done it: i.e. installed a Toyota Starlet fan in the Murena.  Result: More air through the system, the fan is silent, more powerful, more reliable.

Hans
[/quote]
Hi Hans and Bart.

Are the Tyota fans a straight swap to the original fan housing, or do you mount the housing from the Tyota too? Mine is now running silent and on all 3 speeds, but as said, it is not an impressive amount of air.

One thing to check next is the heater core. Perhaps it is clogged by dirt sucked in by the fan. There were twigs and pine needles in the compartment where the fan is mounted, so I would not be surprised.

/Jon.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 05:52:57 pm by Jon Weywadt » Logged

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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 05:58:41 pm »

Old connectors are often problematic. ......
Hi Michael.

I have started a project to fix the primary problem with power in the Murena, namely the fuse panel.

Jesper was the one who got it started and Jan and I are now in the process of replacing the old fuses and board with modern modular ones.

I will open a new topic on the subject. Maybe later this evening after I go through the photos.

Jesper is done with his and I am at the point where I need to make the swap. But it is too da.. cold to fool with it right now.

/Jon.
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Oetker
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 06:19:17 pm »

All my problems disapeared since I did this.










I drilled holes in the print for 2 rear connectors.(most current)
Put the wires true the holes and solder both sides.
It makes it very tight and no stress on the print.
The relays I ordered here.
http://cgi.ebay.nl/Set-of-4-12v-4pin-30amp-On-Off-Relays-automotive_W0QQitemZ110297513068QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Trailers_Transporters_Parts?hash=item19ae3e7c6c&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

The rubber is a tyre from a bicycle.



This is to make the print not to fall out if you change a fuse.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 06:28:55 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2010, 07:36:50 pm »

Oetker: it's amazing! Lot of work, but now You can be sure, that it will be working reliably next 25 years Wink It's normal that, after all those years, it must be worn and affected by corrosion. My company car, Skoda Octavia, is only 2 years old and I have allready had some problems with ESP, electronic servo steering and ABS, due to rainy weather few months ago. After 25 years, all todays modern cars will be out of order, because of old electronics, but our Murenas will be still driving (after "easy" repair like Yours, Oetker) Grin
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