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Author Topic: Best tires for original alloys ??  (Read 48164 times)
Oetker
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« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2010, 10:41:45 pm »

Why don't you use the danish link I provided?
They deliver shipment free and are dirt cheap.

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=74423084.123.7647&typ=D-112746&ranzahl=4&Breite=185&Herst=Bridgestone&Quer=60&Felge=14&Speed=H&weiter=0&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=15&Transport=P&dsco=123&sowigan=So
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Oetker
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« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2010, 09:21:56 pm »

The Bridgestones came in some time ago but didn't have time to mount them before last week..
Had some tests on the dry.



They are a bit softer then the Vikings I had before.
I like that because the car was hard on the back with the old tires, and drove them at 2.1 bar t get any comfort.
Grip in dry was impressive with Bridgestones on 2.5 bar.
Didn't rain for a few weeks so couldn't test them in the wet, and now it is raining the car is not at hand.
Will try that out later.
In the mean time I had the chanche to play with some wheels.


16" 7J ET 40
Can get them for little money, and maybe I do for future plans.
First I have to wreck the tires that are on the car for now Grin
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 09:28:55 pm by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2010, 01:00:19 pm »

Why don't you use the danish link I provided?
They deliver shipment free and are dirt cheap.

I tried to get the Bridgestone Turanza ER300 from them, but they can only deliver the "Ecopia" kind and those do not get good ratings on wet roads. They have not removed the non-ecopia ER300's from the shop.

I found out that they can deliver Continental PremiumContact2 tires in the right sizes though. When I look at the thread pattern on that tire it looks identical to the ER300.

Since the two brands are owned by the same people I wonder if it is the same tire, just with a different name. Huh

If that is the case, then I wonder if the PremiumContact2 also are the new "Ecopia" rated tires too. Apparently that is a EU requirement for increased fuel ecconomy, but it makes the compound harder and reduces grip.  Angry

Are there any of you who have experience with the PremiumContact2 tires?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 03:06:18 pm by Jon Weywadt » Logged

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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2010, 02:09:43 pm »

If that is the case, then I wonder if the PremiumContact2 also are the new "Ecopia" rated tires too. Apparently that is a EU requirement for increased fuel ecconomy, but it makes the compound harder and reduces grip.  Angry

You want grip, grip and more grip on the Murena! For fun, and safety. I can highly recommend Yokohama s.drive with it's wide contacts patch and grippy compound.

Unfortunately they seem to be only available from 15 inch sizes, except for a single 185/55R14 size, which I'm running front. My rears are c.drive, and they're ok too, but much softer in the carcass and quite a different tyre. Thinking back, I'd probably choose A.drive for rears instead.

/Anders
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'01 Grand Espace 24v
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2010, 11:07:00 pm »


-I can highly recommend Yokohama s.drive with it's wide contacts patch and grippy compound.

Unfortunately they seem to be only available from 15 inch sizes, except for a single 185/55R14 size, which I'm running front.---

/Anders
Yes, that reflects the problem I ran into. Performance tires are hard to find in 14" sizes that fit the Murena.

The Turanza ER300, that Oetker reccommended, are no longer available, except in the Ecopia type. From what I hear it is an EU thing to try to force the tire manufacturer to make tires with lower rolling resistance (harder compound). But that causes loss of grip on wet roads. Wet roads are very common in Denmark so... no Ecopias for me.

I have finally settled on a set of Continental PremiumContact 2 and they are not ecopia rated. They were available from daekonline.dk in both Murena sizes and get fine reviews. Continental and Bridgestone are the same people and the PremiumContact 2 have a thread pattern identical to the Turanza ER300. Perhaps it really is the same tire just with a different brand name.

We shall se after I get them mounted next week. After all this trouble I sure hope they perform well. Otherwise I may bite the bullet and drop the original alloys. I'd hate that. Angry
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2010, 09:47:07 pm »

We shall se after I get them mounted next week. After all this trouble I sure hope they perform well. Otherwise I may bite the bullet and drop the original alloys. I'd hate that. Angry
Got the Continental PremiumContact 2 tires mounted this afternoon. Leaving the shop I got into a serious downpour, so I am happy to report that the tires performed quite well.

Heading north on the freeway in the rain I came up on trafic and had to slow down to about 60. Something made me look up in the rearview mirror, where I saw a Suzuki Swift loose control, heading sideways for my rear end. A quick flick of the steering wheel got me over to the right as he passed me in the grass in the median. He regained control and everyone was safe and I am sure he was really awake after that. I was. Shocked

About the tires, I can say that the ride is much more comfortable and quiet. My suspicion is that this will mean that the responsivenes is not as good as my old Firestone firehawks. But we shall see. It does feel like there is a bit more roll from the rear, when I turn quickly. First hand impression is that they would not perform well on the track. But then, ..I don't drive on the track, and the drive to work every day will be more comfortable. I will try to learn the limits of this tire, though. Perhaps a day on "SjŠllandsringen" one of our Danish tracks where you can get to know your car under different road conditions. More later.
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michaltalbot
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« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2010, 10:17:23 am »


Heading north on the freeway in the rain I came up on trafic and had to slow down to about 60. Something made me look up in the rearview mirror, where I saw a Suzuki Swift loose control, heading sideways for my rear end. A quick flick of the steering wheel got me over to the right as he passed me in the grass in the median. He regained control and everyone was safe and I am sure he was really awake after that. I was. Shocked


Yes and that's the difference between good driver and the rest, because 99% of drivers aren't looking in the mirror when standing and after crash thay only says: "He broke my car, what I could have done?" Jon - hats off!  Wink
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2010, 09:59:33 pm »

--- Jon - hats off!  Wink
Thanks Michael. I have developed a good habit of checking all the mirrors, alternatingly when I drive.

But about these PremiumContact 2 tires. I am wondering what would be the best pressure to inflate them to. I did not remember the correct setting, so Ijust told the shop to put 32 PSI in both front and rear. This does not seem to be optimal, so this evening I increased to 36 PSI on the rear and 34 on the front. I did not have too far to drive after that, but it did seem to improve a little bit. However, I may have to learn to drive slower and less energetic  Cheesy because the car does not have the Go-cart feel that it had with the Firehawk tires. Softer and much more roll on quiick steering changes.
But quiet and comfortable they are. I wonder if I can adjust my temperament to match the tires Huh
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roy4matra
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« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2010, 11:39:50 pm »


But about these PremiumContact 2 tires. I am wondering what would be the best pressure to inflate them to. I did not remember the correct setting, so Ijust told the shop to put 32 PSI in both front and rear.

No, no, no.  A mid-engined car, especially with different size tyres front and rear would never have the same pressures in the front and rear.  With the front that hard you wouldn't have very good grip or handling! :-)

Why do we have different pressures for different cars, different tyres, etc.  The pressure and the cross-sectional area are to hold the weight on that wheel and tyre.  So the more weight the more pressure.  This is the reason you put more pressure in any vehicles tyres if you are carry a heavy load.

However, a larger area means the pressure can come down compared to a smaller one as pressure load related to area.  So when you put bigger wheels and tyres on a car often the pressure is slightly less.

The FAQ's on my website have the tyre pressures for Bagheera and Murena, and the Murena should have a sticker in the door jam and another in the handbook.

The front (which is light remember) only requires 1.8 bar but the rear must  have 2.5 bar for a 2.2 model.  The 1.6 requires different pressures depending on whether it has the 13" 70 profile or the 14" 60 profile tyres.

Although the handbook gives two figures, one for low speed and another for loaded/high speed use, I would recommend keeping them at the high speed setting.  It is so easy to get the Murena up to speed, if you only had the low speed rating you would have to seriously limit your speed! :-)

Roy
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 12:04:46 am by roy4matra » Logged

Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2010, 06:24:04 am »

I agree completely with Roy: 1.8 and 2.5 bar front and rear, respectively. I'd like to add, however, that new tyres need to be run-in for a few hundred km at least.

/Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2010, 08:49:42 am »

I agree completely with Roy: 1.8 and 2.5 bar front and rear, respectively. I'd like to add, however, that new tyres need to be run-in for a few hundred km at least.

/Anders
Thanks Roy and Anders.

I guess I was right to increase the rear to 36 psi ~ 2.5 bar.  Cheesy But I will drop down the front to 26 psi ~ 1.8 bar and be patient over the next couple of hundre Km, to see how it handles.

These tires do, however, seem to have softer side walls than my old Firestone, Firehawk. Like I wrote, the ride is much quieter and comfortable. I don't get the harsh "clunk" from the suspension when going over a pot hole, that I got before.

One more question. What is the correct torque when tightening the wheel bolts?
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roy4matra
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« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2010, 10:11:04 am »

These tires do, however, seem to have softer side walls than my old Firestone, Firehawk. Like I wrote, the ride is much quieter and comfortable. I don't get the harsh "clunk" from the suspension when going over a pot hole, that I got before.

That may well be true but it doesn't really change the pressures and particularly the front/rear ratio that should be used.  Different tyres have different compounds and characteristics, which is why some are better in the wet, or dry, and have different wear rates and life.

Quote
One more question. What is the correct torque when tightening the wheel bolts?

The workshop manual states 6.3 daNm or ranging between 5 and 7.5 daNm.

If they have regularly been tightened higher than these, by tyre fitters that overuse air wrenches, then I would say you can use even up to 9 daNm, but they should not be any tighter than that.  It will only make them difficult to remove some time later!

Roy
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2010, 10:48:37 am »


The workshop manual states 6.3 daNm or ranging between 5 and 7.5 daNm.

If they have regularly been tightened higher than these, by tyre fitters that overuse air wrenches, then I would say you can use even up to 9 daNm, but they should not be any tighter than that.  It will only make them difficult to remove some time later!

Roy
Thanks, I will check the torque this weekend.

I always apply copper grease to threads and cones before installing hte wheel bolts. I find that they do not "freeze up" when using that.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2010, 10:52:26 am »


The workshop manual states 6.3 daNm or ranging between 5 and 7.5 daNm.

If they have regularly been tightened higher than these, by tyre fitters that overuse air wrenches, then I would say you can use even up to 9 daNm, but they should not be any tighter than that.  It will only make them difficult to remove some time later!

Roy
Thanks, I will check the torque this weekend.

I always apply copper grease to threads and cones before installing hte wheel bolts. I find that they do not "freeze up" when using that.

Again no Jon or anyone else.  Copper reacts with aluminium owing to their position in the periodic table.  Copper can make an alloy wheel stick not keep it free.  We used to find truck alloy wheels very difficult to remove after people had used copper grease.

The correct grease is Alumslip.  It is an aluminium version of copper grease if you like.

Roy
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2010, 07:41:47 pm »

Well. After several hundred kilometers I am not too pleased with the PremiumContact 2 tires. Angry

They do handle well in wet and dry as far as straight line acceleration and breaking traction goes. They are also comfortable at low speeds because they absorb bumps well. There is no harsh clunk from the suspension that I seemed to have on the Firehawks. Undecided

My big problem is the lateral stability at speed. On the freeway at around 110 - 130 Kmh, they feel decidedly unsafe. If I had to make a fast evasive maneuver in one direction followed by another in the opposite direction, I am afraid I would loose control of the car. The rear end "sails" swaying from side to side by small movements of the steering wheel. Cross winds makes it sway like a rowboat in a pond.

I have checked the tire pressure and it is exactly 1.8 bar on the front and 2.5 on the rear. I may try to experiment by going up or down in pressure on the rear. The front seems OK and steers fine. But the mass of the engine makes the rear tires lean heavily to the side.

A long curve of an exit ramp is a nerve racking experience unless you keep it under 70 kmh. Any faster and small steering corrections makes the car wobble from side to side. Angry

It has got me so down that I am actually thinking of dropping my original alloys for some larger diameter ones.

Are there any tires out there in 14" sizes with stiff sidewalls ? I really want to toss these ones. Cry Cry Cry Frustrated.
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