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Author Topic: Murena chassis as base for Bagheera ?  (Read 5837 times)
SilentRunning
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« on: August 31, 2010, 04:26:49 pm »

Accepting the obvious, that a Murena is not a Bagheera, and vice versa; I spotted 2 new Murena chassis for sale in France  (http://www.leboncoin.fr/equipement_auto/84925389.htm?ca=1_s).

This inevitably starts the thought process, is modifying one of these to suit a Bagheera - substantial task though that's likely to be - less work than would be needed to rebuild a rusty Bagheera chassis ?  And moreover,  might the result be better in the long run ? 

Any views from the congnoscenti ?
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Fred
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 10:26:49 pm »

Sounds quite frightening to me.  Shocked

I'll admit straight up that I don't know how close all the crucial dimensions (wheelbase, height from floorpan to scuttle etc.) are on the two Matras but the cars do look very different from each other.   

The Murena screen looks to be more steeply raked and I'd imagine that, even if the lower dimensions were about right (a huge 'if'), all of the metal that forms the roof cage on the Murena chassis would have to go to make way for same from the Bagheera chassis, or some scratch-built fabrication. 

Anyway, that is my lay-person's opinion.  I'm sure the real forum knowledge will be along to help confirm or dismiss the viability of this venture.

I think that I would rather build a spaceframe from scratch to wear the Bagheera's pretty bodywork than try to make another car's chassis accept it.  Tongue   ... A spaceframe to take a nice compact V8, ideally.  Grin 



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1978 Matra Simca Bagheera S  |  1979 Matra Simca Bagheera S  |  1994 Saab 9000 Aero
andyowl
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2010, 10:24:50 am »

I share Fred's worries about the complications of how it would work, mainly due to my total lack of experience of the Murena.

But Fred's thoughts...."I think that I would rather build a spaceframe from scratch to wear the Bagheera's pretty bodywork than try to make another car's chassis accept it.     ... A spaceframe to take a nice compact V8, ideally".  That really rings a very loud bell for me! All that wasted baggage space in the Bagheera - ideal for a V8!

A couple of years ago I tried to interest an automotive engineering student from Coventry University, a Matra Enthusiast who attended a MECUK meeting in South Wales, into designing just such a space frame. Last weekend at Etretat I was talking to a competitor who has a lightweight TVR with thin GRP bodywork and a tuned 1600cm3 Ford engine. His GRP body is thinner than a Bagheera's although it does have a substantial chassis to bolt the panels to. Very quick he was! Baggy GRP is very thick in many places and heavy.

On my Djet CD ROM is an engineering drawing of the Matra Djet V chassis. I wonder if that could be modified to suit the Bagheera dimensions? I know the Djet Gordini engine is "in-line" and the Bagheera's is transverse, but that would be part of the modification. Food for thought!

Andy
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2010, 11:49:31 am »

I understand why you're tempted... but have to agree with Fred: Windscreen is much steeper on the Bagheera. Also, you'd have to retain the Murena trailing arms as the Bagheera torsion bar rear suspension will not fit the chassis.

About spaceframe design, there's a few books on the subject available. Basically, the challenge is to figure out where the loads are travelling and find out how to handle that. But IF you would want to spend money on such a project, I'd recommend you to go to an experienced chassis designer to get it right. Basically, you'll want to do a project like this except with a different engine location & body:

http://www.hemipanter.se/#Corvette%20Nordic%20Supercar

/Anders
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Spyros
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2010, 04:25:23 pm »

A member of the Bagheera café is very silent about the fact that he has this project.
But not starting of 1 of these Murena chassis, which are damaged anyway. I saw them once when I was lost, looking for HB Pieces. He thinks of starting from a crashed Murena

The Murena 1.6 and the Bagheera chassis are not too diferent if you look at the lower front part.
Below the windscreen and before the firewall, they are nearly compatible

Some personal pictures of one of my project, in a reserved section of the Bagheera-café



Looking at the number, it should be a Murena part. but ... no no, it's a renumbered Bagheera part ...

Don't know how to call this in english, it's what I call the inside sills.

Later on, for the 2.2, matra just cut this part and reweld it with a different angle.
... And for my project, I reverted this ...


removing the little added welded parts


Some brand new murena rust ...


He you can still see on the right side, the leftover of the added part


The issue is that they only have the parts going on 1 side.
So, I had to transform it to be able to attach the rear of the front torsion bar


Ready for welding with the original Bagheera/Murena1.6 angle.


Done ... (2 years ago)


Waiting for the availability of the Bagheera-café chassis marble. (to be honnest I also needed a new floor central panel, the one that I remade this year)

So I believe It is possible to use a Murena chassis as a basis. I personally prefer to reassemble a new Bagheera chassis. But I agree with all the others : a spaceframe chassis will be easier


(Sorry for the french text in the pictures)
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roy4matra
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« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2010, 09:50:51 am »

A member of the Bagheera café is very silent about the fact that he has this project...

So I believe It is possible to use a Murena chassis as a basis. I personally prefer to reassemble a new Bagheera chassis. But I agree with all the others : a spaceframe chassis will be easier

I just don't understand this - A Bagheera with a Murena chassis?
That is called a 1.6 Murena!  Why bother with all the work?

Roy
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Spyros
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« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2010, 07:35:15 pm »

Well Roy...
How to say it without being too hard   Huh

... they are people who don't like the Murena look  Roll Eyes

It's not that different from resurecting a Bagheera : lots of work compare to buying a Murena
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