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Author Topic: prevention v cure  (Read 2555 times)
tronside
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Posts: 19


« on: December 03, 2011, 05:54:10 am »

greetings all

i bought an 2001 2.2dci espace "race" several weeks ago prior to that i had a 1993 rt td space which was falling apart around the engine but that engine still pulled like a train and had done 220k miles !.

Getting back to the 2.2dci je engine i have spent the last 2 weeks reading all the renault forums i can find it seems there are plenty of cures for all that ails the 2.2dci but precious little info on how to PREVENT some of the more serious
problems this engine throws up.

I would like to challenge some of the brilliant engineering minds on this forum to nutting out some ideas on preventing injector failures on the 2.2dci as far as i can tell this is the most common/expensive/repetitive and dramatic problem that several hundred poor souls have gone through some more than once or twice.

almost all the evidence i have found points to the low pressure pump shedding copper/bronze coloured fines. seems that 9 times out of 10 its the #2 injector that fails first then the others follow along shortly after and the viscious cycle of injector failure carries on.

so my question is this, obviosly the disposable fuel filter allows fines small enough to block an injector to pass thru the system and do its nasty buisness to the injector which leads me to ask does anyone think that a spin on truck filter of a fine grade(5 micron?) set up so that it is BEFORE the primary filter on the fuel feed would stop fines from the low pressure pump getting thru ?. sure you could replace the low pressure pump but its only a matter of time before that starts shedding bits of bushing as well also with a spin on filter the cartridge could be inspected for signs of pump failure the disposable stock filter is a sealed so its quite difficult to do a quick check.

thanks folks just thought i would try to get some feedback on everyones hints on how they keep their 2.2dcis on the road before i start throwing money at mine. im sure that collectively we could make some headway on making these engines a wee bit more reliable and save some cash and stress into the bargain!
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yellowt5r
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Posts: 63


« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2011, 02:22:54 pm »

I also have a dci 2.2, 94k miles to date on a 2001. Ive had mine for just over a year and done 6k miles and had to replace the following not sure if the are common problems or just bad luck with mine.

rear exhaust (common to blow where it goes over the axle so i was told)
rear lower engine mount (shakes like mad on start up)
pre cat (due to the above worn and not replace by previous owner)
near/off side side strut and spring (2nd hand)
radiator
re-programme the central locking

one door lock not working due to motor in the door is weak now.

The egr valve is the most common ive have notice. which i blanked off today. went for a quick drive and noticed it runs alot better feels quicker more responce on throttle too. very happy now Grin

not read anything regarding injectors though.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 04:15:31 pm by yellowt5r » Logged
renaultbiler
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2011, 07:13:41 pm »

The injector issue is caused by poor/faulty design by Bosch on factory fitted injectors on this GM engine - Renault even issued a confidensial technical note on this, the injectors crack inside. So i dont think this can be prevented other than simply replace all 4 with new ones. Kind of overkill as they are quite expencive. The real problem with this fault have been costly fault finding when this occurs as it does not leave a conclusive faultcode (as with most faults) and you need to perform a injector return flow leakage test in order to detect the problem. Not rocket science or much work, still it seems like not many workshops actually does this test when the car comes in with cutting or non starting engine. Instead they start to replace expencive components like ecu, fuel pump, HP pump etc. plus labour - with no luck ofcourse.

Without being any expert, the best preventive maintainance is to replace engine oil each 10.000km (max) with good quality oil to prevent turbo failure. This applies to all turbo diesel engines in my eyes.
Also blanking EGR results in a better running engine with less problems.

What does tend to fail eventually with the 2.2 dCi is:
- Injector return flow leak
- Low pressure fuel pump (Bosch), located under the car on the right side
- Radiator leak due to corrotion (all Espace JE eventually suffers)
- Intercooler leak due to corrosion - triggering engine emergency mode and "lack of intake air" fault code
- Some issues with cracking air intake manifoil (plastic)
- Main accessories belt pulley (correct english term ??) come apart due to faulty design
- Cables passing behind alternator -feeding the injectors -is rubbing against AC high pressure pipe/or alternator bracket -eventually causing the circuit to short against earth.
- Turbo failure due to long oil replacement intervals
- Sticky EGR valve
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
tronside
Newbie
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Posts: 19


« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2011, 08:57:41 pm »

thank you renaultbiler for shedding some more light on the injector issue do you know if bosch modified the injector ?.  Aso i have read your posts regarding disconnecting the EGR valve and the MAF sensor as well and i will definitely be taking those steps.

And you are right about most injector technicians not performing a leak back test so many people have made that clear they report having high pressure test come back fine and replacing other parts such as MAF and cleaning EGR or replacing TDC and still having cutout or hot starting problems then finally getting a leakback test and finding the faulty injector.

Correct me if im wrong but is excessive leakback the only fault that causes the computer to shut down the engine ? it also has a limp mode im just trying to help people if they have then engine shut down with the stall symbol on dash then engine starts up fine again only to shut down again a few minutes later usually with injection fault symbol the first thing to get checked would be injector leak back and not start replacing sensors/valves/filters/pumps.


Anothor question renaultbiler ! is there anyway to disconnect leakback sensor if this problem arises so the car can at least be driven home or to a safe spot? they seem to fail under load on the fast lane of the motorway during overtaking or giving it some boot up a hill in remote mountain country etc! and then you are in the dangerous position of having no brakes or steering when the engine shuts down. if this can be done where is the sensor located ?

thanks again for your valuable information
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BrianM
Sr. Member
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Posts: 321


« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2011, 09:02:15 pm »

Good maintenance is most important. Flush the engine oil & change every 6k on a diesel if you are using mineral oil. Best to use a synthetic oil if changing every 10k. I recorded a video at Mobil Uk when synthetics first came to market & they showed us a cylinder liner from a truck that still had the manufactures hone marks after 100k!
It is the carbon that fu**s everything up.
I have used an oil additive called Amtech, it has rave reviews & I am converted to! I can say I noticed the difference in the performance of my old turbo rover (peugeot engine) within two hundred miles or so. & It now goes in all my cars.
There is a turbo cleaner on the market, I have not tried it yet, from a company called Innotec. http://www.innotecworld.com they produce a vast arange of industry cleaners, Lubes, sealers, paint etc. The turbo cleaner is easier to find on the uk site here:  http://www.dieselturbocleaner.co.uk/
Then there is Xado oils that have the TUV certificates, these do the same as the Amtech known as nano technology. Again I have not tried this one but they do a restore & prevention solution for diesel pumps. Maybe this is the one for the dci owners.

"This XADO product is specifically formulated to restore the internal workings of HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pumps). It will also provide vital future protection against wear and tear.  If you want to maximize the potential of your engine, you should also revitalize your fuel pump."
http://www.xado.co.uk/engine_treatment_oil_additives.htm  
If it does'nt cause any harm then it's got to be worth a try.
Just my thoughts!
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2011, 12:05:41 am »

I dont think the MAF should be disconnected, if it has to be disconnected to keep the car running its either faulty or most probably its a leak in the intake air circuit somewhere and that should be fixed.

Regarding the injector return leak issue its no sensor that can be disconnected in order to keep it running, as leak in an injector cuts the engine when the leak is so severe that the fuel pressure drops below level of possible operation. On a common rail engine it is dependant of very high fuel pressure (upto 1800 bar) to get fuel trough injectors, if pressure is too low it wont pass and the engine stops.

I believe that Bosch have okay replacement injectors.
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1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
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