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Author Topic: Changing the timing belt on the 2.2dCi  (Read 12851 times)
Martin Tyas
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Espace, because it's worth it!


« on: September 25, 2006, 03:49:22 pm »

My 2002 JE has covered 67,000 miles and I'm looking ahead to an expensive 72,000 mile service. It will need front and rear brake pads and possibly a pair of front discs in addition to the regular items, which also include at this service interval, the pollen, air and diesel filters, the coolant and brake fluid changing and the timing and alternator belts changing.
As an alternative to spending well over 1000 GBP at the local Renault dealer I have two options.
1) sell the car now before the big service and before it also needs 2 new tyres ready for the annual test in Novmber..... or 2) carry out the work myself.

I really like my Grand Espace and it hasn't been much trouble other than for a few minor things and the usual problems with the EGR valve. So I'm going for option 2) as I am proficient enough to do all the work myself.

However, I would appreciate any advice on changing the belts because there doesn't seem much space for big hands and I have been unable to find a workshop manual in English for the JE or dCi engine anywhere on the web.... even Haynes (for what use they seem to be these days) haven't produced one yet and otherwise I've only found reference to manuals in German or French.

It looks like changing the belts would require removal of the air cleaner intake and the diesel filter as well as the engine mounting bolted to the top of the suspension strut..... but..... is there a tensioner and if so is it the spring loaded self adjusting type or does it require manual adjustment?.... and from the experience of others, is it worth changing the water pump at the same time (especially as I'll be draining and replacing the coolant anyway)?

Any comments or advice would be appreciated.

Martin
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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Will Falconer
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2006, 05:30:12 pm »

Can't help with the diesel info, but http://www.gsfcarparts.com/ are worth a look for service parts including  brake discs/pads etc and you might also consider Greenstuff padsas an upgrade alternative.
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2006, 08:44:24 pm »

I have been unable to find a workshop manual in English for the JE or dCi engine

Not anylonger:  http://www.matrasport.dk/vault/Espace_JE_handbook.zip (16 Mb)
it has a special section on the G9T

As far as I know, you disassemble the right suspension, lower the engine, and then go about the belt replacing. - in other words not something *I* could do myself,

But in Denmark, we are so "lucky" to pay such a silly amount of  tax (150-180%!) on cars, that  1000£  is nowhere near any substancial fraction of the cars value, so it really doesn't matter that much.

did I write that ?!?! ... I must be going barking mad! - I've only been back in Denmark for 7 years, and now this?!?! - HELP ME ! :-)

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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
Will Falconer
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2006, 10:45:50 pm »

Thanks Lennart for providing the workshop manual. What a complex machine it is. Scary!

I like the line  they borrowed from the Haynes manuals,  "Refitting is the reverse of removal"  -  "Oh yea, it might be if I could get the bl**dy thing apart to begin with!"
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Martin Tyas
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Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2006, 03:29:36 pm »

Will
Thanks for the info regarding the parts supplier German, Swedish & French. I've used Euro Car Parts quite a lot before but not GSF who I checked out last night.... they both seem to be gradually increasing the range of parts available for the Espace.

Lennart
Thank you so much for the link you provided to the manual .... it is first class...... BUT...... it has made me aware just how big a job changing the timing belt is. There is also the requirement for special tools to lock the engine at TDC, to compress the belt tensioner and to re-centre the top engine mount movement limiter. I think work-arounds could be found for the first two tools but not sure about the alignment tool.
Aside from the special tools it is a mammoth task......
remove the engine under-pan, the right side road wheel, the wheel arch plastic panel, then the engine tie bar and disconnect the exhaust. Remove the brake caliper, split the track rod end and wishbone ball joints, drain the gearbox and withdraw the hub, brake disc and drive shaft assembly complete. Then remove the top engine mount/movement limiter, disconnect the AirCon circuit pipes and remove the small plastic belt cover. The AirCon and exhaust both need disconnecting as the engine needs to be lowered by up to 70mm to gain access. Renault have a tool to pull back and then lock the accessories belt tensioner to ease removal (and replacement) of this belt before the crankshaft pulleys and the timing covers are removed to gain access to the timing belt. Alignment marks then need to be used for the crankshaft, camshaft and injection pump before locking the engine with a pin at TDC. The timing belt tensioner can then be slackened, the belt replaced and re-tensioned..... and completion of the job is just so simple, as Will already mentioned.

On the basis of what needs doing I think I will revert to option 1) and sell the car before it's due for the timing belt.... or swallow hard, take out the plastic card and let the Renault dealer do that job at least....... but then you tend not to have much faith in them having experienced premature outer edge tyre wear (as others on the forum) and they didn't even have the necessary equipment to set up the tracking let alone check the the rest of the steering geometry.

The Espace is a great concept but like you also said Will... it's "Scary"

Thanks again for your input.

Martin

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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2006, 10:30:15 pm »

Aside from the special tools it is a mammoth task......

Yes, it is pathetic.

It is as if it was never the intention that the car should run further than what a timingbelt allow. - or rather, the accountant  saw no need to spend any thoughts making the replacement easier, as the customer had already bought the car by then. Out of sight, out of mind.

With the wise word of the MECUK president: "accountants!"  :-)

However, if you have a car you are pleased with, and have sorted all (if any) minor problems, then it might still be worth it to take out the plastic card - rather than forking out for a "new" car, whose history of minor problems you don't know ?

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
TheJoker
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 10:51:35 pm »

Martin,

I'm just in process of buying my Espace, and I was in the situation of buying one that's got less than 72K miles on it, or one over, with a guaranteed cam-belt change. I'm told that the one I'm buying had a service that cost £1000 at 72K... However, that included many other things, I presume the ones you mentioned; Oil, Air filter, oil filter, pollen filter, etc etc...

... Might be worth asking the Renault garage what the minimum cost would be..?!
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2006, 04:31:59 pm »

Aside from the special tools it is a mammoth task......

Yes, it is pathetic.

I've got a 24v and I know it's an enormous job to change the timing belt on IT, but it does surprise me somewhat that it's so difficult even on the 2.2dci. On the 8 valve 2 litre petrol (97-99) it isn't difficult at all (just some plastic panels to remove), but I guess that the sheer size of these engines means that there is very limited space.

On the other hand, I know that it is possible to replace to timing belt on the 24v without removing the engine from the car (as it's supposed to), so it might also be on the dci?

With the Espace JE it is really a pity that it is so horrible a procedure as the car is extremely long lasting. You don't want to throw it away only because it needs a new timing belt! But with the looks of it there was no way around it and whatever much we complain, it's not going to change: The car is beautiful and the engine is wonderful, so we live with it! I have found a garage where I know who I'm paying (it's a family owned place) - I suggest you do the same.

- Anders
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Martin Tyas
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Espace, because it's worth it!


« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2006, 07:00:43 pm »

There is very limited space on that side of the 2.2dCi engine Anders.... less than 2cm between engine and the bodywork.... probably the reason why the upper engine mount incorporates a movement limiter.

I will have to take a much closer look at the task by removing the plastic panel in the wheel arch. In the service manual that Lennart so kindly provided it says that the engine has to be raised and lowered to perform the operations and can be raised until the oil filler neck is in contact with the bulkhead Roll Eyes and lowered by a maximum of 70mm. With the drive shaft still in place it looks like the engine could be lowered by about 55mm before the shaft contacts the bodywork/wishbone.... which suggests that the complete hub and drive shaft assembly need to be removed just to gain only 15mm of movement Huh But as the manual says the "maximum" movement is 70mm I need to try to determine whether there is any chance of getting at everything with the engine lowered by only 55mm.... even if it costs me some skin off my knuckles it may be worth it to avoid having to drain the gearbox, detach and remove the hub and drive shaft. Also I was thinking rather than detach the exhaust at the manifold to accommodate the movement of the engine maybe I could just detach the centre rubber exhaust mounts so that as the engine was raised and lowered the exhaust system could move with the engine and pivot only on the rear exhaust box mountings where the movement would be minimal being so far back

Alternatively, as you suggest, I'll try to find a local garage with knowledge of the Espace because from what I've experienced to date the situation can be summed up as "Great Car... Shame about the dealers"

Martin
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1968 Cessna 182L Skylane
1991 BMW 520i SE Auto
2002 Grand Espace 2.2dCi "The Race"
2003 Astra 1.8i Cabriolet "Edition 100"
2011 Insignia SRi VX-Line Red
2011 Honda VT1300CX Fury
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