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Author Topic: Electrical fault  (Read 6912 times)
TonyG
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« on: December 03, 2007, 09:46:48 pm »

Last few days my Espace has developed a small fault,the battery light flickers then the engine dies,turn the ignition on and there is no power, turn again engine starts. This has happened when slowing down and when sitting in traffic. Anyone have any idea what is causing this fault?HuhHuh?
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1992 Espace RXE
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2007, 10:28:37 pm »

Good question... when you say "there is no power", do you mean that the entire car electrical system is dead - radio, instruments, lights, etc? Or is it just the engine that is? Can you crank it? It sounds like a loose connection to me, e.g. a relay that doesn't quite sit well in its socket or something like that.

But please elaborate the description a bit.

- Anders
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TonyG
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2007, 12:17:31 am »

When fault happens no power to electrical system. Fault happened when returning home tonight,battery light came on, revs died engine stopped lights went out. Turn ignition off turn back on - nothing (DEAD). Turn back on again engine  starts battery light goes out.
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1992 Espace RXE
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2007, 06:23:19 am »

Ok, so it's the whole car electrical system that suddently "goes dead"... I would think the loose connection is around the battery connections - or in the battery itself. Are the battery clamps well secured on the poles? Is the earth connection from the battery looking good? What about the earth strip from the engine to the chassis.

I'll ping Roy to allow him to share his insight.

- Anders
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roy4matra
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2007, 08:44:14 pm »

When fault happens no power to electrical system. Fault happened when returning home tonight,battery light came on, revs died engine stopped lights went out. Turn ignition off turn back on - nothing (DEAD). Turn back on again engine  starts battery light goes out.

Please check or confirm this first please Tony: When it goes 'dead' do you still get the immobiliser warning light flashing?  If you do, then check the ignition relay.  If this fails, then you lose all the ignition circuits.  If the immobiliser warning light has gone out as well, then I would suspect a total loss of electrics.

As Anders has pointed out, I would look for a poor or loose main connection first if you are losing all your electrical power, so check both positive and negative battery connections, and earths to chassis.  Don't forget the engine to chassis earth cable.  Also check starter end of positive battery cable.  If you have a meter, you can check for high resistances - an earth lead might be secure but if the connection is dirty, you could still have a high resistance.  Earth resistance should be no more than 0.25 ohm.  The only other thing if you are losing all power is you have a fault battery, possibly as it is shorting out owing to shifting silt at the bottom.

If the ignition relay is suspect, the easiest way to check it out is to simply swop for a known good one and try again.  If the relay is dropping out but the relay itself is good, look for poor connections to the operating side of the relay (commonly terminals 85 and 86 for DIN spec or 1 and 2 on a Renault relay!)

Roy
« Last Edit: December 06, 2007, 08:46:56 pm by roy4matra » Logged

TonyG
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2007, 10:23:08 pm »

Thank you Roy for your great knowledge with my problem. Will check when fault occurs,it may be the ignition relay is at fault because the stereo has lost all stations in its memory and the correct time. Where do i find the ignition relay is it in the passenger glove box or is it in the drivers side under the dash.
Cheers Tony

PS Espace was MOTed yesterday Passed with just 3 minor faults (front brake pipes and repair on exhaust)
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1992 Espace RXE
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 11:47:24 pm »

Congratulations on the MOT  Smiley

If your radio presets and clock are gone after the "breakdown", it actually indicates a problem with the battery or battery connections like Roy describes. The presets would still have worked if it was just the ignition that had failed - the radio has a permanent 12V feed to ensure the presets are still on, so it must have failed too when the "breakdown" occurred.

About ignition relay - I have checked my diagrams, and your model (92) of the Espace doesn't have an ignition relay, the keylock itself does the job. But for now, don't focus on that.

- Anders
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roy4matra
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2007, 05:33:24 pm »

Thank you Roy for your great knowledge with my problem. Will check when fault occurs,it may be the ignition relay is at fault because the stereo has lost all stations in its memory and the correct time. Where do i find the ignition relay is it in the passenger glove box or is it in the drivers side under the dash.
Cheers Tony

PS Espace was MOTed yesterday Passed with just 3 minor faults (front brake pipes and repair on exhaust)

Sorry Tony, forgot your Espace was an 'old' 92 model which does not have the ignition relay like the more modern versions which I am more familiar with!  However, as Anders has pointed out, the fact that you say the radio has lost its presets indicates a total loss of electrical power, so you need to concentrate on looking for a bad connection or a faulty battery.  Don't forget a heavy duty lead like a battery positive or negative lead that has a plastic sheath can hide a partial break inside.  We had some vehicles like this years ago, which is why I said about checking end to end resistances.  The fault showed up as a higher than normal resistance.

Roy
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renaultbiler
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2007, 06:12:51 pm »

This one probably has a big main fuse located on the right hand wheelhouse -right above battery, check that one for bad connection too...
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2007, 08:05:24 pm »

This one probably has a big main fuse located on the right hand wheelhouse -right above battery, check that one for bad connection too...

Indeed it has! Good you pointed it out. It's a strip fuse, it could have come loose.
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TonyG
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2007, 11:31:01 pm »

Thank you all for advise will start checking connections tomorrow,and i will see how it goes.
Many thanks Tony
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1992 Espace RXE
TonyG
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2007, 08:40:56 pm »

Merry Christmas All.

Following everyones advice I found the main fault, the positive starter motor cable on the battery was not fully connected. Cut the cable renew the connection and checked all the other connection. Driven for a few days now and no fault at all. The Espace is running better now too.
Cheers Tony
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1992 Espace RXE
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2007, 11:07:33 pm »

Merry Christmas All.

Following everyones advice I found the main fault, the positive starter motor cable on the battery was not fully connected. Cut the cable renew the connection and checked all the other connection. Driven for a few days now and no fault at all. The Espace is running better now too.
Cheers Tony

Thanks for the report, Tony!

I'm trying to solve a similar problem - a friends 1992 Espace like yours has problems like yours, and I'm trying to help. I'm suspecting the battery to be bad, but I'll check that starter motor connection tomorrow.

- Anders
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Jurzi
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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2013, 12:20:11 am »

I wanted to post my experience. The reason I did a grand repair to to my third in a row Espace (1990-1993) was that coolant water finally sprayed through the head gasket and temps raised to red. Thus I renewed at the same time: head gasket, water pump, timing belt, radiator and checked the heater matrix, which turned out to be OK. So I had to take off almost everything in motor and dashboard compartments. Finally, as I had finished to put back the motor parts I tried to check that motor runs OK, before putting back dashboard.

But.... there was no start and no power at all when I tried to turn the ignition key...DEAD. I checked short circuits and open-circuits for two days and asked my friends who are experts in electrical things. Finally, it turned out that the negative connection to battery was never well put into place thus no contact was between the battery and the pole. But to be honest, this lead is a tricky one which must be "screwed" deep and well around the pole.

So.... quite often you must check first things first!! Like you guys here always guide to do... Usually I always try to follow this rule as I know that quite often the problem is rather simple or easy, if you careful and accurate enough...

EDIT:

Everything works now fine except that some grease/oil is still burning in the motor compartment (exhaust pipe). This is such a fun car to drive&own....
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 10:07:40 am by Jurzi » Logged
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