| Home  Blogs Help Search Login Register  
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Coolant heaters - Espace III 2.2DCI  (Read 5862 times)
Valfrid
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« on: October 18, 2013, 12:46:50 am »

Have done quite a lot of work on my bargain basement Espace III since buying it in March and have got it through an MOT with only an advisory on a cable-tie on the outer of a drive shaft bellow - metal one soon to be ordered... Only issue I have and with the colder mornings, I'm noticing it, is two of the four electronic water coolant heater plugs are defective measuring open-circuit and the diagnostic unit confirms this. This means when the temperature is under 5degC the car goes in to limp mode with a displayed error which then clears itself after half a mile. I cannot for love nor money find out what the replacement parts actually are? They look like small glow plugs but could really do with Renault or otherwise part numbers so I can get them changed - I do pretty much all of my own work. Have trawled through the forum and I can find little mention of them.

Any ideas?
Logged
BrianM
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 321


« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 12:13:39 pm »

These are very low resistance glow plugs. Test them by carefully applying voltage direct from the battery one at a time to see if it warms up. Normally a bank of heater glow plugs are wired together & if one is faulty then the combined resistance is changed thus resulting in lower power to those that still work. Thats why diesel engines are harder to start even if one is defective it effects all of them, they give less heat. They are controlled by a relay so this could be faulty or its feed fuse. Have a look in the vault to see if there is a document. I think they are reffered to as 'thermo plungers'.
Logged
Valfrid
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2013, 01:03:26 am »

Thanks Brian for that - 2 are OC and the whole assembly is looking a little too corroded. The car always starts without issue but I get limp mode for the first half a mile if the outside temperature is 5c or less. From what I understand, these plugs only warm when the car is first started and disconnecting them seems to have helped slightly with getting out of limp mode quicker. Any idea on a part number for them? Might as well swap the lot. Tried to remove one of the faulty plugs to take a look but not an easy thing to do!

Logged
BrianM
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 321


« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2013, 11:28:09 pm »

http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Espace/vault/JE/3444A.pdf Page 20 & 21
These only operate to help the engine get to temperature quickly. If you were clever you could set up an external power supply & an extra pump & set it to automatically pre-heat the engine before you start it! you would have a demisted screen & warm toes instantly Smiley
Have not found a part no. yet but they look like a common heater used in the rover 218 - peugot engine & many others.
Logged
Valfrid
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2013, 12:20:01 am »

Brian - that's brilliant - how I missed that PDf in the vault I'll never know but it gives a lot of very useful information. I hope to pull one of the heaters and take it to my local friendly motor factors to do a comparison with their stocked items but a part number would be very useful. Thanks again for all your help. Might think about some sort of auxiliary coolant pre-heating solution - a project for the future once I've replaced to two faulty heaters...
Logged
Valfrid
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2013, 11:13:20 pm »

Well the Espace is being especially sluggish until it gets up to temp if it's a colder morning so really could do with replacing the heaters - any ideas on the part number - had a look at Rover parts but not really sure exactly what to search for. Been unable to lift one yet as they are corroded in their fitting - something I can sort but I'm now looking to find what part is required and swapping them out as I need to keep the car mobile. Can these heaters be disabled in such a way that I won't get the limp mode/ ECU error?
Logged
BrianM
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 321


« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2013, 10:51:57 am »

Are you sure it is this fault giving you the diagnostic indicator. I just had one with a fult registered as thermoplungers but no light on the dash. Are you sure it is the plugs  not a relay. Looks like they are supplied by more than one. I have read that people change the whole body as they cant get them out due to corrosion. May be an idea to get a second hand one to refurb or bypass it with a piece of pipe. Being sluggish may be due to something else, I just did a major oil flush & found the engine to be quiter & the turbo kicked in at lower revs. Also try an injector cleaner or add less than 10% petrol to the diesel. Read the manual it does say this is ok & wont harm the hpp
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 10:56:39 am by BrianM » Logged
Valfrid
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2013, 12:13:21 am »

Voltage is being supplied as per the Renault document you pointed me to. Two of the thermoplugers show as dead short - the other two are reading correctly at almost a dead short of around 0.4 ohms The diagnostics show a pre-heat error and I only get limp mode at under 5 degress (although temp on dash can show as high as 7 degs). I have now disconnected them completely and this way when it is cold, I get limp mode for around 30 yards and then an error and then the  D3WZ heater kicks in - a bit fumy (need to get the air circulation computer reprogrammed by Renault and is a recognised customer complaint procedure) but it soon raises the coolant temperature to normal. I have to say the plugs are well and truly corroded into their mount so that is a real issue.

I visited Renault to get a price but they, despite spending half an hour on Dialogys and phoning another Renault garage, could not find the part number.

With the connectors on the plugs, limp mode goes on for far longer and the D3WZ doesn't tend to kick in.

Ultimately, I really need a part number for the thermoplungers - made by Europalu...

Brian - what was the eventual outcome of the thermoplunger error on the car you looked at?
Logged
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2013, 06:47:04 pm »

I visited Renault to get a price but they, despite spending half an hour on Dialogys and phoning another Renault garage, could not find the part number.

Possibly because they were looking in the wrong place... ?

These thermoplungers can only be bought as a unit - all four in the housing, probably because they know they will be so corroded by the time you need some replacements you would have difficulty getting them out without destroying the whole housing!

The part number is 82 00 000 677

It is in the heating section (61) as they heat the coolant.  Unfortunately whilst they are normally called thermoplungers, if you tried to find them in the Espace section of Dialogys by name, they will not show up since someone called them a 'Heating element' on this occasion.

These four heaters are supplied by three relays, one each for two of the relays and the other two by the final relay.  This means that you can have one, two, three or four activated depending on which relays are operated.


Quote
Ultimately, I really need a part number for the thermoplungers

Now you have it; the last I remember the unit cost about £50 but that was a while ago.

Roy
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 11:53:44 am by roy4matra » Logged

Valfrid
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2013, 10:06:22 pm »

Roy, you're completely right but a tad late - bought the complete unit as, like you say, they rot solid in their housing, part number confirmed as 82 00 000 677. cost £55.02 + VAT and sorted the issue. All the old ones were open circuit although one had a leakage resistance of about a meg ohm. Car is much happier and all four thermo plugs kicked in this morning making toes and engine nice and toastie and no error codes 'friendly' beeps! No more limp mode on cold mornings either.

Roy - could really do with your expertise in rebuilding my clutch pedal assembly that some kind garage wrecked - but, that's for another post...
Logged
BrianM
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 321


« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2013, 11:31:12 am »

Nice to know you got it sorted. I never got to sort out the problem before I sold the car. It didn't give an error on the dash just registered in the ecu.
Logged
Valfrid
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 39


« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2013, 01:04:45 am »

Hi Brian - that's actually very true - realise that the dash error is actually for the glowplugs and not the thermoplungers (thanks to your post!). I already have the glowplugs but realising what a pain they are to change, went for the thermoplugers first thinking they were the limp-mode culprits. Glowplugs test of on the meter and voltage is being supplied now I've repaired a small 'nibble' (thanks to the lovely mice roaming at the cars previous residence) so I can only assume the diagnostics are correct and I have some sort of short or similar issue with a glowplug... Any easy was to change them gratefully received of course but will put a new post up...
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to: