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Author Topic: 505 turbo engine in a Murena?  (Read 9963 times)
Jon Weywadt
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« on: December 06, 2013, 04:05:36 pm »

Can a Peugeot 505 turbo engine and cx tgi gearbox fit straight into a Murena?
If not, what needs to be modified? Engine mounts? Other?
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Matranaut par excellence Cool
matramurena
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2013, 06:05:56 pm »

It should fit without any modifications to the chassis. And it's fast!  Cool

Martijn
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1983 Matra Murena V6 (AR engine)
2003 Matra Avantime 2.0T Expression
2003 Matra Avantime V6 Privilege
northmurena
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2013, 11:39:48 pm »

...and hot  Wink
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Matra_Hans
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 08:20:33 am »

On the turbo engine there are no threads in the cylinder head for the upper engine support.
In the Murena’s chassis there is not sufficient space for the  turbocharger, therefore you will need to remove part the Murena's heat shield, further the turbocharger will be placed where the Murena have part of its gearshift mechanism, modifications will have to be made.
You will have to use the sump from the Murena engine and not all of the bolts and the treads are in line.
The 505 turbo engine has an air-cooled intercooler which is rather useless with centerengine layout, an alternative solution must be found.
The water pipe under the Murena’s carburettors must be modified.
CX GTI gearbox you will need the bellhouse from the Murena, further the mounting points and gearshift arms are different on the CX gearbox.

regards Hans
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2013, 01:51:35 pm »

On the turbo engine there are no threads in the cylinder head for the upper engine support.
In the Murena’s chassis there is not sufficient space for the  turbocharger, therefore you will need to remove part the Murena's heat shield, further the turbocharger will be placed where the Murena have part of its gearshift mechanism, modifications will have to be made.
You will have to use the sump from the Murena engine and not all of the bolts and the treads are in line.
The 505 turbo engine has an air-cooled intercooler which is rather useless with centerengine layout, an alternative solution must be found.
The water pipe under the Murena’s carburettors must be modified.
CX GTI gearbox you will need the bellhouse from the Murena, further the mounting points and gearshift arms are different on the CX gearbox.

regards Hans
Thanks Hans.

It may be more work than I am prepared to do. Tongue Would be sweet, though. Grin
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matramurena
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« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2013, 07:27:03 pm »

Wow, didn't know it was such a hussle....
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1983 Matra Murena V6 (AR engine)
2003 Matra Avantime 2.0T Expression
2003 Matra Avantime V6 Privilege
Matra_Hans
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« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2013, 09:48:33 pm »

... and I forgot an important thing: The suction pipe in the tank must be replaced with  10 or 12 mm pipe, in order to secure sufficient fuel for the turbo engine under acceleration. On the 505 Turbo the pipe has a 10 mm diameter.
Hans
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roy4matra
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2013, 10:12:15 pm »

Can a Peugeot 505 turbo engine and cx tgi gearbox fit straight into a Murena?
If not, what needs to be modified? Engine mounts? Other?

As well as being reasonably quick (although no quicker than a well tuned naturally aspirated engine) you will have problems with heat, where to fit and plumb in the intercooler etc., but also it can easily destroy clutches.

The Murena has such good traction with the weight over the driving wheels, that if you try a really quick start by dropping the clutch at revs, it will not break traction at the wheels - it will spin the clutch instead!  We had a few turbo modified Murena here in the U.K. at the beginning, and the one I knew, kept burning out clutches which is not the sort of thing you want to have to replace frequently.  So if you or anyone fits a turbo or other really high powered engine, then seriously consider uprating the clutch too.  You have been warned. :-)

Roy
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Matra_Hans
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« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2013, 10:08:42 am »

A clutch from a CX turbo I or II will be a straigth fit. A CX turbo II has 185 hp.

Hans
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2013, 12:25:52 pm »

Can a Peugeot 505 turbo engine and cx tgi gearbox fit straight into a Murena?
If not, what needs to be modified? Engine mounts? Other?

---
You have been warned. :-)

Roy
Thanks Roy.
I had not thought of that angle. It's just that a 505 turbo engine may be available.
I have all the parts for converting mine to fuel injection. Not that it will make it faster, but maybe easier to start and more economical.
Adding a cam from an S would make it quick enough.
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klumzer
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« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2013, 03:16:26 pm »

Hi Jon,

What parts do you have for the fuel injection? And what car did they come from?
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2013, 09:22:28 pm »

Hi Jon,

What parts do you have for the fuel injection? And what car did they come from?

The manifold and injectors came from a 505 and I have a broad band Lambda probe and a MegaSquirt engine controller.
Should be a fairly doable job. The manifold is a straight fit on the Murena head.
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uberprutser
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2013, 10:38:00 pm »

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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 10:28:23 am »


That is what it looks like. Shocked
I notice the extensive modification to the trunk to make room for a blower assisted intercooler (I suspect) I also see the air filter bottom right. Huh
Also a large electric fuel pump on the firewall to feed the beast. Grin
I think I will skip the turbo conversion and just go with a S Cam and injector manifold. Cheesy
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roy4matra
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 07:25:13 pm »

A clutch from a CX turbo I or II will be a straigth fit. A CX turbo II has 185 hp.

Hans

Not quite right Hans.  The friction plate from the Citroen will fit, but not the pressure plate (to my knowledge).  That has to fit the flywheel which is a Tagora engine part.  And it is the spring pressure from the pressure plate that is the problem - it is not high enough.  You need more spring pressure to cope with the increased torque and power.  The friction plate may be fine, or you can fit the better ones from the more powerful Citroen as you suggest, but without the higher clamping force the plate will still slip and spin under high provocation. :-)

That is why I say you need to get the pressure plate uprated if you fit a turbo.  Maybe the 505 turbo pressure plate is suitable?

Roy
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