Jon Weywadt
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« on: July 17, 2014, 04:58:51 pm » |
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The other day it finally became time to pull the head off the engine. It needed a valve job and It had been blowing white smoke/steam from the exhaust when starting in cold weather. My hope that it was just a leaking valve seal and bad head gasket was dashed when it turned out that the head is cracked right at the exhaust valves in the middle cylinders.  Getting the head off while the engine is in the car is a pain in the ass.  But I succeeded. It is now at RMC Motors where they will grind the cracked part away and weld up a new wall, grind new valve seals, have the valves done, and the bottom planed. But a couple of questions. First. Because of the cracks in the head, a little water had gotten into the oil and while not much, how do I best clean it out of the engine?  Second. While dismantling an important step is to loosen the timing chain by removing the plug covering the screw that pulls it back, then turning the screw clockwise to pull the tensioner back. Jan and I tried everything to get the screw to pull the tensioner back, but to no avail. It turns out the the tensioner is very loose as if there is no spring behind it. Also the screw that is supposed to pull it back did not seem to engage and did not move the tensioner at all. So what could be wrong? My guess is that it is defect, but there was no indication of that when the engine was running. Granted it ran very rough, only firing on 3 cylinders and no vacuum with several hoses cracked. The oil plan comes off so we can inspect the tensioner and I think the proper thing to do is to just replace it. Anyone with experience here? Once the engine is running the next big job is to pull the gear box and take it apart. The second gear synchro cone is too small for the synchro ring. Already replaced the synchro ring once and it lasted only a few months before riding against the gear, again grinding when shifting into 2nd. gear. The plan is to put the second gear wheel on a lathe and take off 1 mm where the synchro ring presses against it, thus allowing the ring to engage the cone more firmly. Alternatively, shave a bit off the side of the synchro ring that rests against the gear, thus also engaging the cone more firmly. Probably should have pulled the engine out completely to make it easier to get to all the parts. 
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 05:10:15 pm by Jon Weywadt »
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Oetker
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2014, 01:59:51 pm » |
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There should be 2 types of spanners but I only know this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30FxWH0nl3AThe Cil.heads are a pain. Welding is possible but not in all cases. 2 heads of a fellow member.   Pics Fjodor Maybe find a better one. Herman
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« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 02:05:31 pm by Oetker »
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982.(sold) Murena 1.6 1981 black on places. (for sale). Nissan Leaf 2017. Renault Twingo Quickshift 2006.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2014, 12:06:43 pm » |
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The other day it finally became time to pull the head off the engine. It needed a valve job and It had been blowing white smoke/steam from the exhaust when starting in cold weather. My hope that it was just a leaking valve seal and bad head gasket was dashed when it turned out that the head is cracked right at the exhaust valves in the middle cylinders.  Getting the head off while the engine is in the car is a pain in the ass. But I succeeded. It is now at MC Motors where they will grind the cracked part away and weld up a new wall, grind new valve seals, have the valves done, and the bottom planed.
But a couple of questions. First. Because of the cracks in the head, a little water had gotten into the oil and while not much, how do I best clean it out of the engine? 
Second. While dismantling an important step is to loosen the timing chain by removing the plug covering the screw that pulls it back, then turning the screw clockwise to pull the tensioner back. Jan and I tried everything to get the screw to pull the tensioner back, but to no avail. It turns out the the tensioner is very loose as if there is no spring behind it. Also the screw that is supposed to pull it back did not seem to engage and did not move the tensioner at all. So what could be wrong? My guess is that it is defect, but there was no indication of that when the engine was running. Granted it ran very rough, only firing on 3 cylinders and no vacuum with several hoses cracked.
The oil plan comes off so we can inspect the tensioner and I think the proper thing to do is to just replace it. Anyone with experience here?
Once the engine is running the next big job is to pull the gear box and take it apart. The second gear synchro cone is too small for the synchro ring. Already replaced the synchro ring once and it lasted only a few months before riding against the gear, again grinding when shifting into 2nd. gear. The plan is to put the second gear wheel on a lathe and take off 1 mm where the synchro ring presses against it, thus allowing the ring to engage the cone more firmly. Alternatively, shave a bit off the side of the synchro ring that rests against the gear, thus also engaging the cone more firmly.
Probably should have pulled the engine out completely to make it easier to get to all the parts. 
Last thing first - yes drop the rest of the engine and transmission out, separate them, and then do the engine properly. With the cylinder head work, you need to fit a new water pump, new thermostat, new seals and gaskets and you may as well fit a new vee-belt. Also check the condition of the block core plugs. This is the time to replace any that are suspect. Remember the timing cover must be bolted to the cylinder head before the head face is skimmed (or re-surfaced) - it MUST be exactly the same level. Also remember when you torque the head down, it must be AFTER the timing case is already on and torqued up. (which means the cam gear and chain must already be on and set) Regarding the timing chain tensioner, whichever type, you must push the screw inwards before you try to turn it. Did you do this? If you tried to turn it before pushing and holding in, either it will not turn or you will break it. Once you have turned it fully until it stops (about 3/4 turn IIRC) it will have compressed the spring and should lock the pad back in that position. I doubt it was lose or faulty because it is such a long chain that if it had been, you would have heard the chain rattling! (and the running would have been poor even without the cracked head) If you remove the sump with the engine still in the car, REMOVE the oil level sensor first otherwise you will probably damage it, and you cannot get them anymore. With the engine out to strip fully, you can clean the inside of the engine and oil pump/strainer etc. If the cracks are only between the water jacket and the exhaust valves, it is probably that no coolant will have got in the oil anyway. When you drain the oil of an engine where you suspect there may be coolant in the oil, the coolant will always be at the bottom and first out. Oil always lays on the surface of water - remember? So when you release the drain plug always check if any coolant or water comes out first. Regarding the gearbox, be careful about grinding the sides of gears to get the synchro to work. The synchro mechanism has to lock in place once engaged and if you alter the amount it has to move it may not lock and then the gear may 'jump out' under acceleration. Roy
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« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 09:29:55 am by roy4matra »
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 07:49:06 pm » |
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---- Regarding the timing chain tensioner, whichever type, ----
Regarding the gearbox, be careful about grinding the sides of gears to get the synchro to work. The synchro mechanism has to lock in place once engaged and if you alter the mount it has to move it may not lock and then the gear may 'jump out' under acceleration.
Roy
Thanks for the info and warnings. I did push the screw in as hard as I could, but it turned freely apparently not engaging anything. However, it was possible to get the sprocket wheel off the cam and free of the chain, so the chain could not have been under tension. However, afterwards I noticed that the whole tension mechanism was loose and could pivot. It does not seem right. Just in case I got a new tensioner from Simon and it has a different release mechanism. It has a clasp in the side of the mechanism, which releases the spring when turned and push the tensioner forward. I am curious how to do that once installed in the engine? I do not recall a hole on the side like the one on the front where once the plug is removed you can get to the screw. I included photos of the new tensioner. With your warning about grinding the side of the gear or synchro ring I wonder what options I have. I already tried a new Synchro ring from Simon a few years ago and it lasted only 6 months. I need a ring that better fit the gear or a gear that fits the ring. But where can I get that?
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:17:38 am by Jon Weywadt »
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Oetker
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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2014, 10:53:37 am » |
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I have another box mounted since de revised one had trouble with 3e gear. It's from my breaker.  I bought it for the ashtray   Litlle miles   I got the engine and gearbox out and seperated them.   Before that I got the gearoil out and this box looks like a chalenge.  This box is the later one so somewhere in its life it was changed.    Here the problems I noticed before in other boxes with 3e gear. If you have this it's best to chamge the comleet 3/4 group.  Testing the differential I noticed this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ryVMsTnmmA&feature=youtu.beThe problemis the satelite on the right side. I saw this before in another box. Probably to much force wehen working on the right arm.   In this box I machined a bit of the synchro's 1-3-4. I suggest to do no more then 0.5 mm and replace 2nd gear synchro and gear.   On 2nd I mounted a new one.  Tested the box. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWYvL4v-E0M&list=UUCVQxyhNeQGLzguASym0TBwIt's mounted for 5000km now and working perfect with no leaks. The synchro's are easy to source because they are mounted in several boxes Fiat Citr. Peugeot and others. The breaker is a transformer now.  The cat is happy with all the Matrastuff    Herman
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« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 10:57:00 am by Oetker »
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982.(sold) Murena 1.6 1981 black on places. (for sale). Nissan Leaf 2017. Renault Twingo Quickshift 2006.
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Oetker
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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2014, 12:48:27 pm » |
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If you want the old type spanner, I have a spare Concerning 2nd gear, I have 3, but they are in a worse state not usable. If you can find you can use Citroen CX 2nd gear from 1980 and later. You need to find the right rings after that. Simon has them.   Citroen gave the old shitty parts to Matra first concerning this boxes. herman
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982.(sold) Murena 1.6 1981 black on places. (for sale). Nissan Leaf 2017. Renault Twingo Quickshift 2006.
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