Oetker
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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2014, 11:54:37 am » |
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Oh, and if you need 2nd gear synchro. This one from Fiat will do the trick. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321289259110?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITIs Fiat item number 9554172288 Witout the last two 8s you get Citroen number 95541722 That leads to Peugeot number 2324.03 that also leads to Matra number 7550943700. I got the other one from this seller an it's OK There is a possabillity that Talbot express also has the same box or at last more or less same parts. I knew it, my Murena shifts like a lorry  Herman
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 11:57:02 am by Oetker »
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982.(sold) Murena 1.6 1981 black on places. (for sale). Nissan Leaf 2017. Renault Twingo Quickshift 2006.
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2014, 12:22:05 pm » |
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Oh, and if you need 2nd gear synchro. This one from Fiat will do the trick. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321289259110?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Is Fiat item number 9554172288 Witout the last two 8s you get Citroen number 95541722 That leads to Peugeot number 2324.03 that also leads to Matra number 7550943700. I got the other one from this seller an it's OK There is a possabillity that Talbot express also has the same box or at last more or less same parts. I knew it, my Murena shifts like a lorry 
Herman
That is super.  Are you saying that it is not the cone on the gear that is the problem, but the synchro ring? Will this ring then fit correctly on my gear?  In my original post here: http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1959.0.html one of your last entries say that the new ring will not fit the old gear. Is the ring you talk about above a size that fits the old gear? By the way! I also discovered that I made a disassembly document back then. But I had forgotten about it. I include it here again if anyone should need it: (just wish I had included the figure 5 showing "bolt A". Jan has my manual, so I don't know which one I referred to.)  Update! Figured that out. It is the bolt that holds the 5./R. shifter block to the shaft. UPDATE! Got the second gear and synchro out and cleaned up. It is GOOD.  The clearance is 0.95 mm. My old synchro ring just falls flat against the gear with some lateral movement to spare. I was going to use this gear in my box, but it may not be necessary as this ring seems to be of the proper size. If I was to use this gear I have some concern about pitted rust on the walls of two adjacent teeth. (See photo. Water has somehow gotten into the box while it was sitting around) Wonder if that would be a problem? I have filed high spots off, so it should run smooth, but what about wear?  the first gear is in worse condition and the fork has lots of surface rust. This box may be just for spares as is. 
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 03:48:16 pm by Jon Weywadt »
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Oetker
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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2014, 02:26:27 pm » |
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I clamped the box to the workbench. Punched the dents out in the lock-nut. Used a socket and extended the handle with a large wrench. Applied force and they came free. It was harder to get the allen screws out of the plate that holds the bearings in place. Nearly broke the allen wrench, but they came loose. Some time ago I did it that way to. Now I have a new workbench because I pulled a little to hard  The backplate you don't have to get off. You can seperate the box without removing the plate. Only when you have to replace the bearing it is needed. Then you have to heat the bolts up because they are very hard to get of. Herman
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 02:45:27 pm by Oetker »
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982.(sold) Murena 1.6 1981 black on places. (for sale). Nissan Leaf 2017. Renault Twingo Quickshift 2006.
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Oetker
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« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2014, 05:53:12 pm » |
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Frankly speaking, I don't know. I think it was made with a random generator making it look interesting Matra in fact only glued stickers near the engine mount of the gearbox with the type of box.  After a few months outside in the rain the stickers were gone so nobody knows what gearbox they have without opening it. During the manufacturing life the box was updated several times. The French however didn't walk to far in the store room, so it's possible you have a S with one of the first boxes. It's easy to see if you have a 2,2 box. The bellhousing of a 1.6 is much smaller. Also the prise axle of a 2.2 is thicker The one on youre pics is 2.2. I can see that on the mounting point of the slave clutch cilinder. Also the dif gear is different. a Prise axle of a 1.6 doesn't fit in a 2.2 herman
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 06:09:41 pm by Oetker »
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982.(sold) Murena 1.6 1981 black on places. (for sale). Nissan Leaf 2017. Renault Twingo Quickshift 2006.
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roy4matra
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« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2014, 09:52:05 am » |
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Thanks for the info and warnings. I did push the screw in as hard as I could, but it turned freely apparently not engaging anything. However, it was possible to get the sprocket wheel off the cam and free of the chain, so the chain could not have been under tension. However, afterwards I noticed that the whole tension mechanism was loose and could pivot. It does not seem right.
It is possible to get the chain off, Jon, even with the tensioner applied so that is not a reason to say it was not correct. It would also depend on how well and how close the guides were fitted. The last engine I overhauled for someone, the guides were so far out of place that the chain was loose even with the tensioner applied! Suppose that after the last time your engine tensioner was fitted, the screw was broken, it could be why it just turned but did nothing. I would like to see all the parts of the tensioner (stripped) in detail, spread out, and possibly from a few angles, and then maybe I can see if it is any good - you may be able to rebuild it correctly and re-use it. Or you could send it to me and I will check and rebuild it if it is any good. Just in case I got a new tensioner from Simon and it has a different release mechanism. It has a clasp in the side of the mechanism, which releases the spring when turned and push the tensioner forward. I am curious how to do that once installed in the engine? I do not recall a hole on the side like the one on the front where once the plug is removed you can get to the screw. I included photos of the new tensioner.
That tensioner is no use Jon, in a Murena or Tagora or probably any engine unless it has an access hole on the front of the case, as you would have to have the timing case off to release or apply it! The screw has to be accessible from the outside through the side hole provided by the plug. With your warning about grinding the side of the gear or synchro ring I wonder what options I have. I already tried a new Synchro ring from Simon a few years ago and it lasted only 6 months. I need a ring that better fit the gear or a gear that fits the ring. But where can I get that?
The problem is the synchro cone and cone on the gear do not match, in size or angle. So when you fit a new one, it only just touches and as soon as it has bedded in, it will not work. The synchro cones you have, both old and new are not wasted as they are not really worn (look at the 'teeth' - a worn synchro cone has no teeth and is worn smooth) and can be re-used but you need a gear with the correct cone angle on the side of it. So either you have to get another correct gear, or adapt the one you have or possibly have a smaller cone made. One possibility might be to have the gear cone increased in size using the metal spraying technique to add material and then re-machine it back to the correct size and shape, but this would be expensive assuming it was possible. There is also the heat treatment aspect to be taken into account which may prevent this. I have been out of engineering too long to know all the 'ins' and 'outs' and there may even be a different or better way to do it now. You would need to speak to someone currently in engineering for better advice. However, I feel the easier way is to try to find a correct gear - it is not the cone that is the problem, it is the gear. Roy
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« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 09:59:29 am by roy4matra »
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Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2014, 01:20:27 pm » |
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There should be 2 types of spanners but I only know this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30FxWH0nl3A ---- Herman
Hi Herman. I hope you are online and can tell me what is the outside diameter, and length, of the spring in the spanner. I have tried to measure from the video and guess 7 mm outside and about 40 mm long. Is that close? I find it strange that I have no spring. As I wrote, the spanner did not pop out like on the video and I cannot find a spreing in the oil-pan. My conclusion is that it was not installed by a previous owner.  Using a magnet on a telescope shaft I fished the spanner out and plan to install it and the spring again in the same manner. I am sure it can be done but I need a spring that is close to original. Wish me luck.  /Jon
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