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Author Topic: WARNING!!!! Balljoints  (Read 3236 times)
Oetker
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« on: October 26, 2014, 10:04:43 am »

It may be familiar for Simca drivers but modern APK (same as MOT) mechanics overlook problems at the lower balljoints.
First example....
One of my fellow members of the Belgium club faced this.


Problem o.t lower balljoint.
The cars was MOT a few weeks before.


pics Stef

My 1.6 had MOT a few months back.
I was present there an saw that they tested  the play with a iron bar.
Nothing to see, but yesterday I disambled the front and Oh horror.
movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsJ39jBLAiI&feature=youtu.be

This is a dangerous situation.
The modren MOT masters test this wrong and therefore it isn't noticed.
I suggest to control the lower ball-joints of your Murena's


Also during MOT this was not seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RynjkLiF6Q4&feature=youtu.be

Better test things yourself becaus MOT masters don't know where to look with this old cars.

Herman
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Jon Weywadt
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2014, 10:40:35 am »

--
Also during MOT this was not seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RynjkLiF6Q4&feature=youtu.be

Better test things yourself becaus MOT masters don't know where to look with this old cars.

Herman
Hello Herman.

That does not look good. But where is the play? is it in the splines in the cast iron triangle of the front wheel mount?
Have you had the torsion bar out to inspect the  splines? Huh
It may be time for a coil-spring conversion for that Murena.  Sad
Regards.
Jon
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Oetker
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2014, 10:50:40 am »

The play ot torsion bar was not at the front but here.

Loosen the height adjuster an 1 bolt for this plate and you can get the bar out.
I replace the bar and the holder.
Can't see wich one causes it the most.

Herman
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Oetker
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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2014, 08:04:28 am »

Moved the torsion from the breaker to my car.


Movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQquSNTgosw

Still not perfect bu I can liv with that.
Hacked the lower Ball-joint out.


Placed the new one.



Replaced the uppers to.
The steering joints were replaced a few months back.


New brake disks from a Solara.
They are a bit thicker but fit is OK.



Job almost done.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 08:10:15 am by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
Oetker
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2014, 06:00:01 am »

Some anti rattle rubbers were gone.


Had some in the used spares.


Glued them in.


Some lubricant on the bars helps to keep the rust of.


In the manual is written that pretension must be 180 mm
;


That must be wrong.
You must be as strong as the Hulk to get the nuts on even if you have the right tool.
I preadjusted like this and mounted with a helptool made for it.



Now I could adjust the car on the right height with the front-shockers  of.



Adjusted the tracking.





New stabiliser rubbers from a mini.



Tried to adjust the steering rack on height but my equipment is to poor for that.



Findig someone with the knowhow and my low budget is difficult.
However, did a test run with the car and the car is more stif and tracking is better.
Need some fine tuning on the front adjustments but Can liv with it.

Gave the the balljoint to the MOT center for educational purposes.
They will be allert next time I come around.
The play was almost 7mm  were 1mm is allowed and not noticed.
one word of advice.....CHECK THIS ON YOUR CARS.
Herman

« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 06:12:25 am by Oetker » Logged

I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
roy4matra
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 08:44:22 am »

It may be familiar for Simca drivers but modern APK (same as MOT) mechanics overlook problems at the lower balljoints.

Whilst I will agree that sometimes mechanics and tester will miss things, particularly if they are not familiar with a particular model, the ball joint condition as can be seen from this photo, means it would have not swivelled freely and easily at the beginning when the grease was gone and it had become dry.  I tested a few cars whilst at our RouteUK SMT International meeting and at least one car felt like it had this problem.  Please, all Murena owners, check the condition of the ball joint gaiters, and note any slight wander on the road.  Don't ignore them.


pics Stef

This should have been noticeable on the road long before it broke.  I know since I experienced a similar condition on my own Murena many years ago.  Maybe it is because I am a technician and tester, or that I have had my car from new, but I could tell something was wrong when the car did not steering straight as it had always done.  It would wander slightly to the left or right unless constantly corrected.  This is the sign that something is wrong usually with that bottom ball joint.  I checked mine and found it was still tight with no excess lift but once the arm was separated from the pin you could tell the pin was seizing up and I replaced the joint long before it got to the breaking point.


If you look carefully at the next photo and particularly the rubber gaiter, you will see it is cracked and would have been allowing water to get in.



This is the start of the problem.  These rubbers will deteriorate with age and crack and once it has, the road water and dirt can get in and the end is inevitable.  So please check your ball joint rubber gaiters, and replace any that are cracked or badly deteriorated.  In the U.K. a split gaiter never used to be an M.o.T. failure but they have finally learnt their lesson and now it is a failure.  This lower ball joint gaiter is now available, and easy to replace.  I have replaced some already and you can check if the swivel pin is nice and free at the same time whilst the lower arm is separated to replace the gaiter.  If the pin does not swivel freely and smoothly, it is time to replace the ball joint.

If the joint is still good and free, then replacing the rubber gaiter will prolong the ball joints life.

Roy
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 09:25:50 am by roy4matra » Logged

Oetker
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 09:28:14 am »

It may be familiar for Simca drivers but modern APK (same as MOT) mechanics overlook problems at the lower balljoints.

This should have been noticeable on the road long before it broke.  I know since I experienced a similar condition on my own Murena many years ago.  Maybe it is because I am a technician and tester, or that I have had my car from new, but I could tell something was wrong when the car did not steering straight as it had always done.  It would wander slightly to the left or right unless constantly corrected.  This is the sign that something is wrong usually with that bottom ball joint.  I checked mine and found it was still tight with no excess lift but once the arm was separated from the pin you could tell the pin was seizing up and I replaced the joint long before it got to the breaking point.

This is the start of the problem.  These rubbers will deteriorate with age and crack and once it has, the road water and dirt can get in and the end is inevitable.  So please check your ball joint rubber gaiters, and replace any that are cracked or badly deteriorated.  In the U.K. a split gaiter never used to be an M.o.T. failure but they have finally learnt their lesson and now it is a failure.  This lower ball joint gaiter is now available, and easy to replace.  I have replaced some already and you can check if the swivel pin is nice and free at the same time whilst the lower arm is separated to replace the gaiter.  If the pin does not swivel freely and smoothly, it is time to replace the ball joint.

If the joint is still good and free, then replacing the rubber gaiter will prolong the ball joints life.

Roy

Exactly.
I had problems with the tracking.
MOT noticed 0.5 mm play on the steering joint.
The gaiter and lower ball-joint they overlooked.
I replaced the steering ball-joints and the problem got worse after lining the car.
So I tested the steering rack and knuckle,greased it and found nothing.
I didn't suspect the lower ball joints because the car was MOT a few months back.
If you can find 0.5mm play on the steering how can you overlook 7mm at the lower.
I was baffled and desided to got the whole front train of.
Problem found and car runs in a staight line again.
If this happens to me I supose it can happen to another less allert driver.
I think a warning is in place.

Herman

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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different.
Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
lewisman
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2014, 12:51:02 am »

i remember this happening to my dad's Talbot Horizon many years ago.  The advice I got from the garage was to always stick a jack under the lower arm when checking for play in the bottom ball joint to take the pressure of the torsion bar, as this can effectively tension the joint and hide the play. (obviously this is done with the car on an axle stand)
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amidlamil
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Posts: 6


« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2014, 08:03:19 pm »

HELLO

"Bonjour" (i am not parano) but I have a clac-clac noise ..
do you have a trick tutorial, tool reference to change those lower ball-joint ??

Thanks a LOL !!  Grin
[/b]
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