| Home  Blogs Help Search Login Register  
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print
Author Topic: remote central locking  (Read 36491 times)
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2007, 02:01:10 pm »

I came across the following web site some time ago that may also help as there is a section on testing for Renault keyfob and immobiliser failures and emergency re-codes.
Fortunately I haven't needed to follow their advice/procedure so cannot testify to it's accuracy or usefulness.

Martin

Thanks for the link Martin.  The procedure described is only for infra-red key plips, and does not apply to the radio frequency ones that most late Espace use.  The procdure description is essentially correct, but it should be noted that when you turn on the ignition at the beginning with the key you wish to re-sync. the immobiliser warning light must be flashing fast, showing that the system is locked.  If it is not, the procedure shouldn't and probably won't work.  You need the special four digit unlock code, which I presume the downloadable zipped program is meant to give you.  Normally at a Renault dealer they obtain this from the on-line Renault database.  Once you have this, you can not only attempt to sync. the key plip, but since it unlocks the immobiliser, you can start and drive the car away.  If the electronics are faulty, putting this unlock code in manually, can mean it will stay permanently unlocked - I have seen this on many occasions, and the only solution to get the immobiliser to work again, is a new unit I'm afraid.  You have been warned.

Roy
« Last Edit: July 22, 2007, 02:02:45 pm by roy4matra » Logged

roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2007, 09:29:23 pm »

Once again many thanks for your continued efforts to solve my central locking problems.

I have just returned from another try at re-synchronising the good key, and with my brother in attendance to keep his eye on the dashboard warning light.

Once again I turned the ignition on, until the red dashboard warning light went out, then I turned the ignition off and removed the key.

I then pressed and held down the overhead central locking button, and after the initial clonk of the door locks operating there was a definite additional clonk, as you described.

I continued to hold down the button but the red warning light didn't stay on continuously but resumed flashing at its normal rate.

I have just remembered Ross there was a problem some years ago to do with resynchronising plips if a Cobra or Sigma Alarm was fitted, and these were often fitted to the Espace.  You needed to disconnect the alarm first before you could carry out the resync. procedure.  It doesn't matter if the alarm has been working or not, it still needs disconnecting.

So if there is one of these alarms fitted, you need to disconnect it then try the resync. again; and whether successful or not, reconnect the alarm afterwards.  The alarm unit is under the dash, so you need to take the dash top off.  This is quite easy.  You take off the speaker grills (they are only clipped in - carefully ease them up)  Undo the three screws and lift out the speaker removing the electrical connection.  Then lift off the dash top.  If you have a sunshine sensor at the very front centre you will need to disconnect that too.  With the top off, you should see the alarm box usually left of centre dash.

Roy
Logged

wkl
Newbie
*
Posts: 4


« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2008, 08:20:20 am »

i have similar problem, one day both of my key fails to operate, i can start my espace though but could not open my car remotely, after a few testings the dealer conclude that the problem is with the key, so i order a new key from france, 3 weeks later the key arrive and now i can open and lock my car remotely. cost me about GBP 120
Logged
ross
Full Member
***
Posts: 98


« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2008, 06:59:09 pm »

hi WKL,

I was surprised to get another reply to a long standing problem that I posted a while ago.

Like you I have wondered if buying new keys might sort the problem, but my dilema is that the Renault dealer I went to said that "his computer wouldn't talk to my computer" so buying new keys at £120 a time is a gamble.

I have had my keys checked, and at least one of them definitely worked.

I have followed all the tips that other readers of this Forum have suggested but to no avail.

I am beginning to think that the first solution may not have been as bad as I originally thought, replacing the onboard computer, dashboard and keys should do the trick, but at £1000 is still out of the question for me.

I have been thinking of getting the complete system from a scrap espace and putting it into my espace, but they still want a lot of money for secondhand bits that they don't guarantee are good.

You have prompted me to get in touch with a firm that was suggested in this Forum that can repair the parts of the system, they are down near Dover, if my memory serves.

If I can send them all the bits I hope they might be able to tell me which part is defective.

Many thanks for your suggestion about the keys.

Regards

ross
Logged

2005 Grande Espace 2.2DCi
1994 2.1Td Espace
2005 Kangoo 1.2
1977 Renault 16TL
1974 Renault 16TX
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2008, 07:43:15 pm »

Like you I have wondered if buying new keys might sort the problem...

No it won't Ross, and if you had truly understood my replies you would see why.  Since you cannot access the computer, and you cannot get it into re-sync mode, you cannot re-sync. any keys (which means if the only one you have working now fails, you cannot re-sync that either) and therefore the first part of any solution has to be the computer.  After that, yes, you may need a new key Plip as well, if the one that doesn't work has actually failed.

If it had been as simple as a new key Plip, I would have already told you that.  WKL's problem was different as the re-sync. operation was still working.

Quote
... but my dilema is that the Renault dealer I went to said that "his computer wouldn't talk to my computer" so buying new keys at £120 a time is a gamble.

Not just a gamble, but a waste of money without the computer first.

Quote
I am beginning to think that the first solution may not have been as bad as I originally thought, replacing the onboard computer, dashboard and keys should do the trick, but at £1000 is still out of the question for me.

But that is not all.  You would have to replace the injection computer too, since the codes in the immobiliser and injection computer must match.  They cannot be changed.

Quote
I have been thinking of getting the complete system from a scrap espace and putting it into my espace, but they still want a lot of money for secondhand bits that they don't guarantee are good.

You will need a complete kit - dash, passenger compartment computer, inj.computer, two key Plips and unless they match your vehicles exact spec. and unless they can prove these all work, in all functions that is a huge gamble!

Quote
If I can send them all the bits I hope they might be able to tell me which part is defective.

You need to get a quote for investigation only first, as you will have to pay that whether or not they can repair it.  However, this could possibly be a good option...

Roy
Logged

renaultbiler
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 418



WWW
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2008, 10:48:03 pm »

Without having read the complete posts in this thread, do i understand correct that both keys fail on remote...

The remote keys (codes) is stored and controlled by the Instrument panel. These panels have occaisonally failed and one symptom is that the keys loose sync.
One other thing is that this system are using a rolling code between key <-> car, so that when the time comes that the key have been pressed 1000 times or more without being within the range of the car, a resync is needed to get them talking again.

Normally you will have to have BOTH ORIGINAL keys in working condition in order to resync the Espace JE UNLESS the BII computer is configurated with one key only.

If you try the resync procedure with only one key it will not complete the resync as it is waiting for a signal from the second key to complete. Eventually it escapes programming mode.

Once two keys is programmet to the instrument panel no other key will ever work - you will have to order new key from Renault based on the numbers inside one of your original keys. This means that the RF print from a foreign key will not work, neither will a foreign instrument panel accept your keys if you get a second hand instrument panel to your car.

Get your keys checked by an electric company that can test radio signal transmition, if it does not work it is probably due to a bad soldering on the RF board. I had my spare key fixed by Roa on this forum.
Once it is confirmed that both keys are transmitting radio signals, then test resync.
Logged

1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
ross
Full Member
***
Posts: 98


« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2008, 10:38:47 pm »

Gentlemen,

Once again many thanks for the interest in the problems with the Central Locking of my Espace, but I will have to agree with Roys comment that I just can't grasp the complexities of the computer based systems used on these cars.
All that seems to be abundantly clear is that there is no affordable way out of the problem.
It is the inability to ascertain the root of the problem that annoys me, as I might be more inclined to find the money to fix the problem if the problem could be clearly identified.
During my latest adventures under the dashboard, to try and change the heater matrix's, more on that will follow, I have seen two wires in the loom behind the speedo head which appear to have been cut and the matching ends I cannot find.
Not being an electronics "whizzo" or having any accurate wiring diagram I cannot begin to check to see if there are any faults with the loom rather than the electronic signals.
I have lived with the problem for nearly 3 years now so it is beginning to be just another quirk of the car.
Many thanks to all who have posted replies and comments, and especially Roy, who despite his best efforts has not succeded in making me fully understand the electronics, which I am sure is my fault and not his.
Regards to all.
Ross
Logged

2005 Grande Espace 2.2DCi
1994 2.1Td Espace
2005 Kangoo 1.2
1977 Renault 16TL
1974 Renault 16TX
renaultbiler
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 418



WWW
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2008, 08:11:32 pm »

Just read the line "both keys needed to do resync" - that is mandatory on the JE. Your fix might be within range if you get the 2 original keys in working order.
Logged

1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2008, 07:46:49 pm »

Just read the line "both keys needed to do resync" - that is mandatory on the JE. Your fix might be within range if you get the 2 original keys in working order.

Not quite right I'm afraid.  You can reset the system to only look for one key, and you can then re-sync one key only.  I've done this on many occasions so I know it works.

However, I repeat Ross's problem is that the computer simply will not go into re-sync mode, and cannot be accessed with Clip either, so unless he has a wiring loom fault, the repair has to start with a new computer.  He is also right when he says 'there is no affordable way out of the problem'.  That is often the case I'm afraid with these new complex networked computer cars.  I see it day after day...

Roy
Logged

renaultbiler
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 418



WWW
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2008, 08:16:05 am »

Just read the line "both keys needed to do resync" - that is mandatory on the JE. Your fix might be within range if you get the 2 original keys in working order.

Not quite right I'm afraid.  You can reset the system to only look for one key, and you can then re-sync one key only.  I've done this on many occasions so I know it works.

yeah, so i also say in one of my prev posts - but one will have to assume that this might not have been altered on this car as the default programming is two keys.
Logged

1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2008, 12:56:55 pm »

Just read the line "both keys needed to do resync" - that is mandatory on the JE. Your fix might be within range if you get the 2 original keys in working order.

Not quite right I'm afraid.  You can reset the system to only look for one key, and you can then re-sync one key only.  I've done this on many occasions so I know it works.

yeah, so i also say in one of my prev posts - but one will have to assume that this might not have been altered on this car as the default programming is two keys.

But as I quoted, you cannot access the computer at all, so you cannot reset it either!

Ross is going to have to either change the computer or stay with one plip; and if that fails for any reason then he is stuffed because you cannot replace two items at once - so with both keys not working AND the computer not accessible, he would then have to have a completely new kit. i.e. Injection computer, Immobiliser computer and 2 new key plips all with new matching code.

Roy
Logged

renaultbiler
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 418



WWW
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2008, 09:35:13 pm »

Ok so i missed that part about unaccessible BII - but a second hand instrumet cluster (RF stored) + BII (Immo stored) + keys and all from same car would do as the injection computer can be reset to blank out immo code.
Logged

1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2008, 07:44:03 am »

Ok so i missed that part about unaccessible BII - but a second hand instrumet cluster (RF stored) + BII (Immo stored) + keys and all from same car would do as the injection computer can be reset to blank out immo code.

No it can't.  You could reset inj. immobiliser codes on the early Renault computers, but not the later ones.  Unless you know something that Renault are not telling their RTE's?  For some years now all inj. computer codes have been unchangeable.

Roy
Logged

renaultbiler
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 418



WWW
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2008, 06:36:51 am »

It is possible to blank most ecu's with 1'st and 2'nd generation immobiliser (upto Lag II etc).

If you know the car security code (current code working in the ecu) you simply fit a foreign -identical -and already coded decoder in the car (in this case the BII unit) and enter the security code matching the ecu, the ecu will then be reset (enter code following ignition OFF and then pull out the foreign decoder, next ign ON will supply the ECU with the foreign decoder security code - and this code might not be known!!).

In the few exeptions this wont work or when you dont have the security code for the ecu, i have a small "black box" that cracks the security code within a few hours and then blanks the ecu immo code.  Wink

Done this on a lot of cars now, mostly Laguna and Megane's, to replace original ecu with second hand ecu OR as part of the procedure to remove the immobiliser completely from the car.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 06:47:19 am by renaultbiler » Logged

1980 Alpine A-310 w/GTA 2.5 V6 Turbo
2000 Grand Espace V6 24v Initiale: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2529
2000 Scenic RXi 2.0 16v IDE aut DP0: http://www.renaultbiler.no/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3751
1982 R20TX 2.2
Service Online: www.servicehefte.net/servdata/?cid=qqkX
roy4matra
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 869



« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2008, 08:00:23 am »

It is possible to blank most ecu's with 1'st and 2'nd generation immobiliser (upto Lag II etc).

Well that is roughly what I was saying - those early computers only had a 4 numerical digit security code.  The newer computers have a much longer hexadecimal security code.

Quote
If you know the car security code (current code working in the ecu) you simply fit a foreign -identical -and already coded decoder in the car (in this case the BII unit)...

And there is the first problem.  The Espace stores its mileage in two units - the BII and the electronic instrument panel, so if you fit another unit, it will take the mileage of the highest unit.  You also have to have a 'foreign, identical, and already coded decoder' - not something a dealer is going to have lying around!

Quote
In the few exeptions this wont work or when you dont have the security code for the ecu, i have a small "black box" that cracks the security code within a few hours and then blanks the ecu immo code.  Wink

Well yes, Renault are not going to approve of that or tell their employees about anything like it!

Quote
Done this on a lot of cars now, mostly Laguna and Megane's, to replace original ecu with second hand ecu OR as part of the procedure to remove the immobiliser completely from the car.

Or this!!  In fact Renaults policy won't even allow us to give any owner the 4 digit code to manually unlock a system.

When I said changing codes was not possible, I was talking of the official system, and the procedure any dealer workshop can carry out.  If an owner here, cannot do something themselves, and they take it to a garage, they can only do what is officially available.

Roy
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 08:03:09 am by roy4matra » Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to: