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Author Topic: Master or Slave?  (Read 15180 times)
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2007, 02:45:36 pm »

Anders, if I get stuck, can you get me a repair kit from Biltema? (sorry Krede!)

Well that might be possible, but since my 'local' Biltema is a little short of 100 km away I don't think you should rely on me.... However, Krede has one that is local to him... (SORRY, Krede!)

Yes, a brake cylinder and a clutch cylinder is the same principle, so the seals are the same. I'll measure my spare tonight.

I bought my master cyl from Will, so he has probably just forgotten to put the 2.2 one on his web site. I'm certain you can get a new one from him in which case the repair will be quite easy.

(Yugh, the forum is slow these days!)
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
LarsB
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2007, 04:03:51 pm »

I have done some research with Biltema and found that at least the part number no longer eksist. However it is possible that some of the stores still have these kits.

Lars
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roy4matra
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2007, 03:39:37 pm »

Well, a quick feel of the carpet by the clutch pedal and the consequent covering of my hands in nasty oily stuff reveals that the problem is almost certainly the master cylinder.

So what are my options?

A new master cylinder.  They are available whether Matramagic stock them or not.  Use Simon in Germany or HB Pieces in France.  Or search websites like Quinton Hazell...

Quote
I could try and source one from a Tagora...

I'm almost positive the Tagora one is not the same.  If parts were directly from a Simca/Talbot model the part number was the same. e.g. front discs, starter motor, head gasket etc.  However the clutch master cylinder for the 2.2 is a Matra special number meaning it is different.

Quote
I got a bit lost in the discussions about brake cylinder repair kits. Do the brake cylinder repair kits fit the clutch master cylinder?

THERE ARE NO BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER REPAIR KITS.  Bendix will not supply them.

The part number of the 1.6 master cylinder suggests it is the same as the Bagheera but different to Simca/Talbot models.  There is a 1.6 clutch master cylinder repair kit if you can still get it, but the master cylinder bore is smaller than the 2.2

Is that clear now.

Roy
« Last Edit: September 02, 2007, 02:31:16 pm by roy4matra » Logged

macaroni
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« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2007, 08:51:48 pm »

Crystal.

What is the bore of the Murena 2.2 master cylinder?

Matramagic and Simon can both supply them, but at a price almost 3 times that of a Tagora cylinder and I would like to know what the difference is.

Antony
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2007, 11:15:01 pm »

What is the bore of the Murena 2.2 master cylinder?

Oh yes, I forgot I promised to measure it Sad It turns out, however, that a measurement isn't really possible without taking the old one I have apart. Since it's tricky to get back together I'm not going to do that.

Luckily the workshop manual can help: The 2.2 master cylinder has a bore of 20.6 mm and a stroke length of 25 mm. Compared to the Murena 1.6 which specifies a larger bore of 22 mm.

And Roy is right about the Tagora unit not fitting: Tagora workshop manual specifies the bore to be 19 mm and stroke 26 mm, and besides fitting is completely different.

I'm afraid you have to buy the expensive one, unless you can get a brake specialist to fit new seals to your old one.

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
macaroni
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« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2007, 11:20:05 pm »

Thanks for effort there Anders.

I will extract mine tomorrow and see if just a seal is needed.

Goodnight all...
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macaroni
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« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2007, 02:48:49 pm »

Well the actual cylinder seems to be in very good condition, so I really only need some seals.

Would anyone be willing to check out their local Biltema to get me a kit?
Failing that, I will buy a whole new cylinder, but it seems a bit overkill.

Cheers,

Antony
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2007, 03:06:02 pm »

Well the actual cylinder seems to be in very good condition, so I really only need some seals.

Would anyone be willing to check out their local Biltema to get me a kit?
Failing that, I will buy a whole new cylinder, but it seems a bit overkill.

It looks like LarsB is correct, the part number doesn't exist in their catalogue any more! I'm afraid you are on your own... do you have a brake specialist near you? It *is* a standard seal and back when I found the kit last year, it was for a Volvo. Currently Biltema can only supply seals in 22 mm and 19 mm sizes Sad
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
macaroni
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« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2007, 03:35:09 pm »

OK, I'll sort something out then.

Roy, your website says this with regards to the 2.2 clutch master cylinder...

"Repair kit for a Volvo 340/440/460 -- reported to be "a perfect fit" so with luck any make intended for same model should do the job"

Does that mean a Volvo clutch cylinder or wheel cylinder? I'm guessing wheel, but it doesn't say.
As far as I know, the Volvo has a clutch cable.

Antony

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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2007, 03:49:55 pm »

OK, I'll sort something out then.

Roy, your website says this with regards to the 2.2 clutch master cylinder...

"Repair kit for a Volvo 340/440/460 -- reported to be "a perfect fit" so with luck any make intended for same model should do the job"

Does that mean a Volvo clutch cylinder or wheel cylinder? I'm guessing wheel, but it doesn't say.
As far as I know, the Volvo has a clutch cable.

Antony



Ah, well that "reported to" comes from me: That was the car that the Biltema BRAKE master cylinder kit was quoted to fit. I don't know if the Volvo has a hydraulic clutch, but the kit was for the brake cylinder anyway.
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
macaroni
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« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2007, 05:07:08 pm »

OK, thanks for your patience with me on this, I have another stupid question...
Did the Volvo Biltema kit have both seals in or did you have to buy 2 kits?

The seals appear to be slightly different.

Cheers,

Antony
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2007, 07:16:56 pm »

OK, thanks for your patience with me on this, I have another stupid question...
Did the Volvo Biltema kit have both seals in or did you have to buy 2 kits?

The seals appear to be slightly different.

Cheers,

Antony

Good question Wink

I bought only one kit, but as I haven't actually done the fitment yet, I can't say I know for sure. To me, however, the seals look the same (but the right one is worn). Perhaps there's difference, however. The outer one looks like it has an edge that the inner doesn't have? Have you measured the width of them?

The next photo shows the contents of the box, as you can see it contains three seals, but one is narrower than the other two. A brake master cylinder needs three seals to make two circuits.



« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 07:21:55 pm by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
macaroni
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« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2007, 08:24:01 pm »

As far as I can see, the 2 seals are slightly different.

I have found a Volvo 20.6mm kit so I will try that and if it doesn't work, I'll bite the bullet and go for a whole new cylinder.

Thanks again Anders.

Antony
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2007, 07:19:49 pm »

As far as I can see, the 2 seals are slightly different.

I have found a Volvo 20.6mm kit so I will try that and if it doesn't work, I'll bite the bullet and go for a whole new cylinder.

Thanks again Anders.

Antony

You are very welcome, do keep us posted on what you find!
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
macaroni
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Murena and Multipla - I like it 3 abreast!


« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2007, 08:06:46 pm »

OK, success!!
I found an online Volvo parts supplier, here in the UK, and bought a brake master cykinder repair kit for a 400 series Volvo.
Co-incidentally, I also own a 480 turbo...

Only one of the seals seemed similar, and I can't quite recall which one, so I only replaced that one and kept the other seal as original.

Anyway, I put it all back together and I have a lovely, leak-free clutch.

Thanks for all your help.

This is the link to the item in question...

http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/product_info.php?cPath=52_540&products_id=3260
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