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Author Topic: Rear Screen  (Read 11926 times)
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2007, 10:25:03 pm »

Anyone here has any experience with this:

http://shop1.actinicexpress.co.uk/shops/Rat_Sport/index.php?cat=Rear_Screen_Demister_Kit

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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
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Martin Tyas
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« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2007, 11:23:59 am »

Anders, I fitted a similar kit to a 1964 Hillman Super Minx I had until a few years ago.... thinking back I don't really know what was "Super" about it at all.... probably that it had a few more chrome trims than the standard Minx  Wink

It worked very well until the track started peeling off the glass towards the end of the first winter of use  Roll Eyes
I tried a second one that did last and worked for quite a few years... but I fitted that one during the summer. It seems to me that one of the biggest problems is that, quite understandably, people wait until winter to fit them when they start having a problem with condensation and then wonder why, as I did, that they don't stick to the glass indefinitely. In my experience of them they ideally need fitting in summer when condensation doesn't form on the glass as soon as you put your hand near it to start applying the heater track.

Hopefully glue technology will also have improved since then anyway but the best pieces of advice I could give are
1) make sure that the glass is perfectly clean
2) fit them when the glass is warm or at least when condensation cannot easily form
3) be very careful when cleaning the screen once they are fitted because the heater elements being simply bonded to the glass with a thin layer of adhesive don't hold up so well to rough treatment with a window leather.

Oh... and one other thing I am reminded of whilst looking again at the photo of the kit. Instead of rolling up the heater element and it's backing paper when packaging it they instead fold it over. I assume that it will be the same as the one I fitted years ago and like ordinary decals in that you apply the heater track to the window along with the backing paper and then peel off the backing paper once the elements are bonded to the glass. I found with the first one I fitted that the heater element tracks become very slightly stretched at the point of folding so when you come to apply and smooth them out flat then the elements can ripple or pucker in the area where they have been folded. That will have resulted in poor bonding of the tracks in that area and... surprise, surprise... that was where subsequently they started to come adrift from the glass.
So the 4th piece of advice if you do try one of these kits is to take it out of the packaging and either roll it up loosely or lay it out flat and leave for a couple of weeks like that to settle before attempting to fit it.

Martin
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2007, 12:03:11 pm »

Thanks a lot, Martin for your practical advice. Nice to see you on the Murena section too! Smiley

In this case I'll have the existing strips to cater for too, I don't think it's possible to simply remove those, as they are probably not simply glued on the glass, but I was hoping perhaps it would be possible to put the new strips on top of the old ones. The kit looks like it has been designed for cars without any rear screen heating (like your Minx).

So I don't imagine it's going to be an easy fix or upgrade, and I suppose I was hoping that someone had tried this on a Murena or Bagheera - but since nobody answered my first post, I don't think that's likely.

But your advice to wait until summer is certainly very good - I really get the point! I'll go and fit one of those small electric cabin heaters and wire it in parallel with the rear screen, that could also help on the side window, which also mists a good deal. With all the bicycles we have here in Copenhagen, one has to have good visibility out the back!

- Anders Cool
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lewisman
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« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2007, 10:53:23 pm »

http://www.speeding.co.uk/acatalog/PermaPoxy_Expoxies___Sealants.html

This might be worth a try...

I repaired a hrw with a silver based paint many moons ago with some success.
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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2007, 01:18:47 am »

've been looking for reasons to find out why my rear window heater isn't particularly effective.

I think the rear window heater is lower power than modern cars, but they should be able to demist the rear window in most cases.

However, have you tried feeding it 12V - say straight from the battery ?  - just to make absolutely sure it really is the heater strips themselves (or their connectors) that are poor ?

Also, IF the strips themselves are corroded, I would find it somewhat surprising if they ALL were equally corroded. It would make much more sense if some were more corroded than others, which would show as uneven effectiveness. (?)

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2007, 08:49:56 am »

Lewisman, thanks for your link. I have one of those (a Loctite product, though, but seems to be the same content), but I haven't used it as I thought "which strip should I apply it to?" - they are all bad Wink

I've been looking for reasons to find out why my rear window heater isn't particularly effective.

I think the rear window heater is lower power than modern cars, but they should be able to demist the rear window in most cases.

However, have you tried feeding it 12V - say straight from the battery ?  - just to make absolutely sure it really is the heater strips themselves (or their connectors) that are poor ?

No not exactly that, but I've measured the voltage drop from the battery to the screen and it's virtually zero. All components are repaired or replaced Smiley So I think I have ruled out everything else...

Quote
Also, IF the strips themselves are corroded, I would find it somewhat surprising if they ALL were equally corroded. It would make much more sense if some were more corroded than others, which would show as uneven effectiveness. (?)

Well there are a few hot spots (indicating more corrosion), but nothing serious and no broken strips.

And why shouldn't they have corroded evenly? They are exposed to the same environment, and probably carefully made with the same width and thickness (to avoid hot spots when new).

It *is* aluminum, and a very thin layer of it, and since I think it's only protected by a thin layer of some kind of paint, it makes sense that they reduce in width over time. If only they had used silver... Cheesy

But I agree it's likely that it was probably designed to be less powerful than demisters on modern cars. I just don't think they should be *this* bad Wink, and further more, the current drawn by the screen is only a few Ampere, which does not make sense considering the large square wire running from the fuse box, the relay, and the large Amp fuse dedicated to the demister.

So I guess I still stick to the corrosion theory... but I would like to have more than 'circumstantial evidence' Cheesy

- Anders
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 08:59:04 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

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Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2007, 08:16:47 pm »

And why shouldn't they have corroded evenly?
for the same reason an unprotected steel plate (read Simca 1100 :-) ) doesn't rust evenly - it always starts at the weakest spot and builds from there.

The Simca 1100 however had a very effective rust accelerator in the way the steel had been folded and flattened several times like a Samurai sword - producing very strong steel with very little material (weight). As soon as rust got hold of the first layer, it spread throughout the entire panel rather quickly. But thats another story Smiley


Quote
It *is* aluminum
Now I don't normally correct language on the forum, but I know you can take this Anders - all in a good spirit.
its *aluminium*.
Only Americans think its called AlUUUminum ... Jeremy Clarkson makes some excellent jokes on this :-)

And if you can handle this without being insulted, I'll buy you a beer at Christmas.
maybe also even if you do. Smiley

/Lennart
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 02:22:46 pm by Lennart Sorth » Logged

Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
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« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2007, 10:17:26 pm »

I can handle being insulted!! (Well I have to really.... since im so poor at fighting).... so can I have a beer too? Grin Grin Grin
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2007, 10:41:24 pm »

And why shouldn't they have corroded evenly?
for the same reason an unprotected steel plate (read Simca 1100 :-) ) doesn't rust evenly - it always starts at the weakest spot and builds from there.

The Simca 1100 however had a very effective rust accelerator in the way the steel had been folded and flattened several times like a Samurai sword - producing very strong steel with very little material (weight). As soon as rust got hold of the first layer, it spread throughout the entire panel rather quickly. But thats another story Smiley


Quote
It *is* aluminum
Now I don't normally correct language on the forum, but I know you can take this Anders - all in a good spirit.
its *aluminium*.
Only Americans think its called AlUUUminum ... Jeremy Clarkson makes some excellent jokes on this :-)

And if you can handle this without being insulted, I'll buy you a beer at Christmas.
maybe also even if you do. Smiley

/Lennart

Come on, you love correcting others don't you Smiley

Aluminuioum or whatever... Call it Al (there was a song about that...)

You owe me a beer, I just laughed Cheesy
« Last Edit: November 30, 2007, 02:20:49 pm by Lennart Sorth » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2007, 02:22:02 pm »

Iso can I have a beer too? Grin Grin Grin
Of course! - lets meet up at The Elm Tree in Beech Hill one of these days, ok ?
/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
Murena 1983 1.9i silver // Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0d 2012 white // Smart 4two cdi 2010 blue //
Lennart Sorth
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« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2007, 02:24:03 pm »

[You owe me a beer, I just laughed Cheesy
Excellent! 
And today I was corrected at work for talking about "the sidewalk" when it is actually called pavement in UK ... so I guess I own myself a beer to ... or something Smiley

/Lennart
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Lennart.Sorth@matrasport.dk
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« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2007, 02:43:59 pm »

He he yep... try to "pop the hood" in England... and what you will actually be ending up doing is "lifting the bonnet"   Cheesy
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lewisman
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2007, 02:16:13 am »

Only Yanks call them hoods... we call the bonnets too Wink

Mind you poping a hood could well be a mafia term Grin
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