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Author Topic: NEED electrical diagrams ('99 V6 24V)  (Read 3183 times)
José V. Gavilá
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1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« on: October 19, 2007, 11:34:02 am »

Hello!

Well, the stalling problem is becoming worse  Angry. Last weekend I went with all family for a trip (a very nice one, BTW) and I got some engine stalls while driving. They manifest as a kind of shock, as if you braked.

Also, starting engine when it is hot (i.e. after loading petrol) or when it is warm (i.e. after half an hour or so from stopping it) is a nightmare. Only way is to push accelerator to top and then, once it starts, fastly pulling it out. But then, it starts and keeps iddle for some seconds and, sometimes, engine stalls some seconds or even minutes later.

Analyzing situation, I am convinced there is a problem with some temperature sensor. Renault finally changed one (don't know which one; will check with the invoice). But I need to check problem by myself, as they have proved unable to deal with this problem  Angry

So I need schematic diagrams for the engine management (ignition and inyection system). And, of course, any associated information and/or hint.

I hope someone has access to this kind of data, as sometimes stalling is really dangerous, as once when it happened to my wife just crossing a railway Shocked !

So, please, any help about this problem will be really appreciated.

Thanks!

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
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http://jvgavila.com
roy4matra
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« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2007, 10:22:45 pm »

Well, the stalling problem is becoming worse...

Sorry to hear that José, but at least it will make it easier to trace the problem eventually.  There's nothing worse than an intermittent fault which is never there when you want to check it!

Quote
So I need schematic diagrams for the engine management (ignition and injection system). And, of course, any associated information and/or hint.

I hope someone has access to this kind of data...

This is where you will have a problem I'm afraid.  The old Renault wiring diagram books, bulletins, tech. info. and NT / TI note system is complex and it is unlikely anyone could supply you all you really need.  The books are no longer available either and the other things only available on Renault's intranet (to dealers etc.).  All Renault wiring is now on CD's and you would have to buy the approppriate one but that would still leave you without access to the NT / TI notes and they are sometimes important as the only source of the info. you need.  And even then their diagrams don't contain all the information as I have often wanted to know certain details but I'm told they are not available!  Renault have some funny ideas with regard to their information and computer systems...

I no longer have access to the older diagrams, which you would need, as the dealer I do work for on a consultancy basis, only has the CD's from 2006.

Roy
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2007, 11:09:21 am »

So, please, any help about this problem will be really appreciated.

I have it, José, though for a 2001. I bought the book off eBay in france some years ago and it's sitting on my bookshelf. I'm horribly busy though, but as another Espace owner has asked me to copy some pages from the book too, but there's a lot to copy since you need the index pages too (components are numbered, not named on the diagram).

And I don't think the diagram will help you. You can check the wires with it, but the problems you describe doesn't sound like bad wiring/connectors etc.

I agree with Roy that the fact that the problem is now worse may actually be your luck.

My garage would probably take the car, leave it running for a few hours with the diagnostic computer connected, and carefully inspect what happens on all the sensors.

We did it once with our 24v and found the water temp sensor to be defective. That was our cars' problem, yours could be different: fuel starvation/pressure, sensors, oxygen sensor, TDC sensor, ignition coils etc...

I think you should go back to the garage. I know the money part isn't fun, but it's really your best bet.

- Anders
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'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
José V. Gavilá
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Posts: 96


1999 Espace 3.0 V6 24V


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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2007, 11:23:58 pm »

Hello Anders,

So, please, any help about this problem will be really appreciated.

I have it, José, though for a 2001. I bought the book off eBay in france some years ago and it's sitting on my bookshelf. I'm horribly busy though, but as another Espace owner has asked me to copy some pages from the book too, but there's a lot to copy since you need the index pages too (components are numbered, not named on the diagram).

And I don't think the diagram will help you. You can check the wires with it, but the problems you describe doesn't sound like bad wiring/connectors etc.

I agree with Roy that the fact that the problem is now worse may actually be your luck.

My garage would probably take the car, leave it running for a few hours with the diagnostic computer connected, and carefully inspect what happens on all the sensors.

We did it once with our 24v and found the water temp sensor to be defective. That was our cars' problem, yours could be different: fuel starvation/pressure, sensors, oxygen sensor, TDC sensor, ignition coils etc...

I think you should go back to the garage. I know the money part isn't fun, but it's really your best bet.

- Anders

Well, let me explain a bit more my idea... yes, I know it is NOT a wiring problem, as it is very predictable and repetitive. But I want to know which sensors system uses and, if possible, where they are located, in order to be able to do some work by myself. Problem with garage is not only the cost. Is that they are plainly inepts!. It may sound hard but is the truth Embarrassed

My background as Telecommunication Engineer and my experience repairing electronic items will sure help here. I plan to view / record sensor readings, aided by my stash of test equipment gear. I am sure I can find the problem, but need some info and time. Later one is OK but first one is, by now, missing.

So, please, when you have some time, I would appreciate a copy of the needed information. We can comment this off-line, if you wish. My e-mail is: eb5agv<at>ctv<dot>es

Thanks a lot!

JOSE
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JOSE V. GAVILA
La Canyada (Valencia)
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http://jvgavila.com
Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2007, 06:55:29 am »

José, I'll see what I can do. Let me explain you a few facts first:

The system is quite ordinary with the following inputs:

- One oxygen sensor
- MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor
- Water temperature sensor
- Inlet air temperature sensor
- Throttle potentiometer (which I think may be just two switches - one to switch into idle and one to signal full throttle)
- TDC sensor
- Communication line to the automatic gearbox

The outputs are:

- Idle bypass valve, to control idle speed
- Six injectors
- Three ignition coils (these are known to cause problems)
- Fuel pump

Throttle body is controlled mechanically from the pedal.

But your first step should be to see what the computer itself reads with an OBD reader. You need that to get sensor readings. I have not have success with that, but I think there's another guy on the forum who has (try searching). I'll keep you in mind and make scans when I get time, but my time is currently very limited, I'm afraid.

Cheers,
Anders Cool

« Last Edit: November 04, 2007, 06:57:09 am by Anders Dinsen » Logged

'82 Murena 2.2 prep 142
'01 Grand Espace 24v
'08 Smart Fortwo 0,8 cdi
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