MatraSport Forum

Just dreaming for a few moments - a V8 in the engine room of a murena.

Audi has a V8 engine+gearbox - could it be done with this ?

Out with the gas tank - and heavy modifications to the section betwen the engine room and the trunk.

What do you think ?

/Henrik

Cosworth has a 2.4 litre V8... it's only 97 kg. They've failed ot sell to anyone, so you might be able to get a few "cheap". @20000 rpm it's developing roughly 750 bhp. Would that be enough, Henrik?

(Yes, it's an F1 engine!)

Or you can find a road going engine, the 2 litre V8 that's going in the Caparo T1... I'm trying to dig up who's making that. Then you'd have to do with some 480 bhp @ 10500 rpm.

No..... you should ask Lennart to describe the Matra V12. That's the REAL upgrade for Murena ;)

(http://www.matra-passion.com/Voitures/Images/murena09.jpg)

light weight Rover v8.. four downdraft webers... ;D

It's got to be a 4 cylinder high pressure turbo. It will produce the same power and be a lot easier to fit in. 400+ hp and as docile as a standard car when off boost.

Gizmo you are absolutely right...turbos are the easiest (and now a days also often the cheapest) way to more power(if in doubt ,how come that most hot hatches /gti's are fitted with them as standard? 
But to be honest, I don't think we are talking sense here :)  just dreaming, and being completely irrational :D   

Beware the dreamer who dreams with open eyes, for he will turn his dreams into reality.

I think that the Audi V8 is placed longitudinally in the car, isn’t it?
This means that you only will have to remove the middle passenger seat to create space for the engine and maybe widen the passenger cabin a little.
Another solution could be to get hold of two Murena chassis and create an extended wheelbase Murena out of the two.

Hans

Does somebody tried to mount VW VR6 engine into the Murena? This unit is very powerfull, compact and easy available. That was my idea when I had big problems with my old silver Murena, but I stoped this way of thinking because, as You know, I really respect the originality.

 
Well, it is just a dream, but yes, I was thinking a little about this.
I have the murena spare car already, but I need the V8 to play with.
Just for  the fun  ;)

The real problems are the lack of money for a project of this type

/Henrik

Because of my interest in Toyota MR2's I came accross this on the net. An MR2 mk1 with a 4.6 litre quad cam v8 installed, there is even a video clip/sound track of the engine running......what a sound. So if it will go into an MR2 why not the Murena?

http://www.v8mr2.com/

It seems to me that this V8 has a transversal gearbox. And if that will fit in a mr2, it will fit in a murena

What a sound from this MR2  :P

And I can even have it with automatic gear shift ...........

/Henrik

Unless you get Matras approval saying that it is ok to put a certain engine in a Murena, 170 hp is the upper most limit that the 2.2 chassis can possibly be registered with in Denmark. I think that rules out both the vr6 and the alfa romeo 3.0. :(   

I think that the Audi V8 is placed longitudinally in the car, isn’t it? This means that you only will have to remove the middle passenger seat to create space for the engine. Another solution could be to get hold of two Murena chassis and create an extended wheelbase Murena out of the two.
And then you need to bend the rules just a little it to get it on the road.

regards Hans

I am all with you here, as it is a very compact V6, which possibly could even fit without chassis modifications (which IMO are a no-go).

/Lennart

Uhmm - that could also be an option.
I just checked ebay.de - there are several Golf VR6 for sale. They don't look that expensive.
The VR6 has around 170 HP, which is below the 20% level we have in Denmark
(this is for a murena S)

So no chassis modifications - but changes still required to:
- motor mountings
- gearshift, I would like to have the VW gearbox and shift build in also
- drive axles
- exhaust system

/Henrik

And don't forget:
sorting out electrics, clutch, fuel, cooling.

170.4 hp is the the cut for a Murena S in Denmark... any more than that and you have to produce document that the chassis can handle it.. witch is next to impossible.
I'm not saying that you cant get it past inspection anyway.. and i I'm not saying that you might not even get it written in the cars papers.. but thats how the rules are as of fall last year..
I know this because it ended the possibility of putting the 16valve 2.0 gsi engine in the Kadett c's for some of the guys at the danish opel forum (a friend of mine included)
It doesnt matter that there are several fully legal C' coupes on the road in DK with that engine, and that you can  buy a car in Germany that has been tüv approved and everything. As long as the manufacturer (opel/matra) don't vouch for the engine swap nothing can be done.

A bit old topic but I have just these plans with my Bagheera.
Replacing Simca engine to a VR6. Have done some measurements and with tank located somewhere else (front) so could VR6 engine fit in the back without much changes in the existing chassis.
Problems I have to solve is weight. A VR6 (ABV/190hp) motor with gear box is at about 180 kg (anyone know what a Simca 1.4l motor with gear box weighs?), with this weight back there the chassis must be strengthened, and new mounts placed. There is also issue with the cars total middle weight pint. So if weight point doesn't change so much I will start with modifications this fall.

One of the main reason why I want a VR6 engine is engines deliver so raw sound with open sports air filter and other cams.
It is mentioned in the thread that it is a bit of dreaming but without dreams reality becomes boring :)

Cheers!

The 1.6 l engine and a 5 speed gear box  weigths 150 kg, I do not think that the 1442 + 4 speed is very different.
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1477.0.html
With the RV-engine's 190 HP plus open air filter and a different cam, I think that you will tearing the enginmounts out of the bagheera's chassis.
Hans

...not only the engine mounts ;-)

In order for your Bagheera  to with stand the power of a modified VR6 engine maybe you will need to build your Bagheera like the one on the atached pictures, i.e. with a tube frame.

Yeah! By "reinforced chassis" I was of course meaning to build a sub-frame so that engine is mounted essentially in the new framework which is around the entire car chassis.
Two problems though:
1. Whole body must be removed (perhaps inevitable anyway)
2. If there is a "cage" inside the coupe the car must be registered as "rebuilt vehicle" and then loses vintage status (older than 30 years in Sweden). Then the car  will be 2015 model year and all plans of having a cool car disappear, well u know the rest of the story.

Hans, the project above is of course the way to go (and bay be the only way), but with job, kids and two other cars it can (and will) take years before I hear "the raw sound" from my red charmy and rear kitty.

Well well, thanks for advice and info about engine weight.
When the job begins I will start a new topic here.