Waldo
Sr. Member
Posts: 187
Diesel power :o)
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« on: May 18, 2006, 03:53:14 am » |
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Hi... I have now collected my german Murena 1.6 and it looks to be in pretty good shape! I have seen that a fellow danish guy have changed the engine for a 1.9 gti engine from a peugeot 309 I believe. My first question is how the danish car inspection reacted to this mod? Secondly I'm seriously considering putting another engine in the car, don't get to upset now but the engine I have in mind is the Peugeot 2.0 HDI (90 bhp)! I know this sounds crazy to some (most I guess), but from my point of view this would be the perfect engine for the little murena!!! As the basic engine makes the same power the car inspection in Denmark shouldn't be a problem (I hope) and the engine should result in a very good fuel economy (close to 20 km/l ). At the same time, this being a diesel engine, it's very realiable and starts every morning! Adding a intercooler (can be taken off before an inspection) and having the ECU reprogrammed should provide great torque and plenty of power (>300Nm and 130-140 bhp) Only downside I can think of is fitting the damn engine to the car!!! Does anybody know if this is possible at all (I ready to make custom engine mounts and do a bit of work). I think the main problem is the exhuast manifold with the turbo (requires some space) and getting extra ventialtion in the engine bay. I allready have a motor and gearbox from a peugeot 406 HDI that have done 200.000 km, and I expect to do some extensive measuring when I get back from overseas... By the way, does anybody know the weight of the 1.6 engine? I don't wanna put add to much excess weight to the car. Comments on the project in general will be appreciated as well... Regards, Valdemar
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Artur
Newbie
Posts: 11
dreaming about Murenas
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2006, 11:15:33 am » |
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Technical side is one aspect... Diesel engine does not really suit the idea of Murena, i think. I have just to much respect to this car, so i would not do it. I just cant get right your plan to save money using modified car as a daily driver, why not to buy another, much more economic vehicle with diesel engine and leave Murena as a fun car?
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just drive
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Waldo
Sr. Member
Posts: 187
Diesel power :o)
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« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2006, 02:33:44 am » |
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Hi again... Well the issue of changing the identity of the car does not apply as the danish tax rules specificly allows an engine replacement from petrol to diesel and vice versa... My thoughts are more if the car must have an approval with the specific engine installed! As the 205 gti engine have never been fitted to the car from the Matra factory, from my point of view the same rules apply if fitting a 406 HDI engine. The big difference I see is that the inspectors won't have any problems figuring out that the HDI engine is not orginal But the more I think of it, the more I wan't to do it! Artur mentioned to leave the Murena as a fun car... from my point of view the HDI engine will increase the fun factor due to the extra torque and power and will leave me with a real big grin on my face each time I need to refuel Besides I can't afford a second car due to road tax and insurance (I'm a student), and my current car is due for an inspection late this year, and I expect to sell it or trash it when the inspection is due! I didn't write on the forum because I thought some would tell me it's a 3 day job to swap them over... I'm expecting to use most of summer getting the job done! My main objective is to do the conversion without cutting and welding the chassis or bodywork. I will have a much closer look at the HDI and Murena engine compartment next weekend. At first glance the main task is as mentioned to fit the exhaust manifold and get enough cooling! I expect to make new engine mounts, exhaust system, gear linkage, modifyed driveshafts and that the electrical system will require a lot of work and modifying... Anyone that would like to know how I get on, can follow this thread as I will write about the project as I move forward, if there's any interest that is... Kind regards, Valdemar
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Artur
Newbie
Posts: 11
dreaming about Murenas
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« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2006, 01:13:19 pm » |
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I have done a small research about sport cars with diesel engines: Opel EcoSpeedster The two-seat prototype (1.3-liter, 82 kW/112 hp CDTI) is based on the mid-engined Speedster roadster, but features new, carbon fiber bodywork with much improved aerodynamics. With significantly reduced drag (cD= 0.20) and even lower weight (around 660 kg), the Eco-Speedster takes up where another Opel prototype left off 30 years ago: On June 1, 1972, at the company's Dudenhofen proving ground, a modified Opel GT with 95 hp, 2.1-liter turbocharged diesel engine made the headlines by setting several world records for diesel passenger cars and reached a top speed of 197.5 km/h. Shortly afterwards, Opel launched the Opel Rekord 2.1 D, its first diesel-engined passenger car. VW EcoRacer The EcoRacer uses a carbon-fiber monocoque worthy of a Formula 1 machine. The engine, mounted amidships, the 1.5-liter, turbocharged direct-injection, four-cylinder diesel develops 134 hp and a maximum torque of 184 lb-ft, which is available between 1900 and 3750 rpm. The particulate filter- equipped common rail turbo-diesel is mated to a six-speed, twin-clutch DSG transmission. Not only does it accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 6.3 seconds and top out at 143 mph, according to VW, it also averages a miserly 80 mpg. So, its very modern idea - a sport car with diesel engine... Even if I dont like it enough, Waldo, please inform about your progress!
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just drive
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Anders Dinsen
Administrator
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Posts: 3186
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« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2006, 10:09:35 pm » |
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Hi As an additional remark to Will comments regarding airflow and engine compartment cooling, I will like to mentioned that a deep front spoiler on the Murena will more or less block the airflow under the car and there by reduce the air circulation around the engine
regards Hans
Hans, I remember your car has a deep front spoiler - how does it manage with that? How do you expect to get enough air flow with the new (presumably) hotter turbo engine? Just a thought now that you pointed this out. The 4S had side air intakes and a deep spoiler, but that's a big change to the body. (image from Murena section of Matrasport.dk) - Anders
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« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 10:11:37 pm by dinsen »
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142 2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
Used to own: 2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v 1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V 1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
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Anders Dinsen
Administrator
YaBB God
Posts: 3186
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2006, 07:56:32 pm » |
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You must have many cats where you live? Hwr, I'm sure we have more here in Copenhagen. No, I don't know where to get a 4S front spoiler, even Politecnic doesn't have it... I think I read somewhere that it was made of rubber, or at least the lower part was. Having driving a J11 Espace which has a glass fiber front spoiler, I really consider rubber far superior to glass fiber since just a bit of frozen snow can break the stiff spoiler. You have some ram air intakes in the front of your spoiler, they should be excellent for channeling cold air to brakes / engine / intercooler / oil cooler. Prototype racing cars usually have the radiators and turbos at the sides, and large air intakes there. This is ok on the race cars since the designers go through a lot to ensure that flow is good around the radiators, but in the Murena the side will never be a high pressure area. The front is, however, and with your low spoiler, even more than the original. If you put a smooth underpan in the car, you can control the air flow, and with a diffuser at the rear you can even gain downforce back there (I don't remember if you have the Murena S-rear spoiler, which has the effect of increasing the vacuum at the rear thus enhancing a rear diffuser's effect). Regarding the Ferrari style engine cover, I don't think it will change a lot since the air over it will be mostly turbolent and not in vacuum. It will not suck air out. The suction is at the rear of the car - which is good for your turbo if you preserve or enhance the rear ventilation exits. All this is speculation, I'm afraid (I don't even own a Murena - yet) - but I've just finished reading Joseph Katz: Race Car Aerodynamics, so I guess I'm in an 'inspired' state just now
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« Last Edit: May 27, 2006, 07:58:10 pm by dinsen »
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142 2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
Used to own: 2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v 1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V 1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
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