MatraSport Forum

The Murena seems to have a bit of trouble with the carb. Needs a lot of choke to start, and when the choke is cut of, it spits and fires a couple of times, before dying out.

Any ideas what it might be...?

Most likely a vacuum leak, I'd say.

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Most likely a vacuum leak, I'd say.
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Think so to.
Look at the hose in the lefside front where the plastic rubber connection is for the headlamps.
if it dies out the fuelpump can be a problem to.

Fuelpump IS a problem......

It is leaking, but PO has bought a new one that is on its way from Simon as we speak.

Hmm. been looking at the closest vacuum hose from distributor to carb, seem just fine, no cracks, no leaks. but seems like there are som other vacuum hoses going round down there, does anybody know which hoses go where?

And would a bad gasket on the carb give me the same kind of trouble....?

I give my best shot, aldo I am not a carb specialist.
If I had to find out I should do it like this.

First check if vacume on the ignition works.
Open the ignition.
Get the hose from the carb that goes to the vacume on the ignition.
Suck on it and see if the plate moves in the ignition and runs free.
Some oil may help there if not.
Adjust ignition without vacumehose on ignitiojn to 10 degree before udp cilinder 1.

disconect the vacumehose that goes to the plastic vacumepot and shut it of on the carb.
Try if thing go better.
If a gasket is bad between carb and inlet manifold, fix that first.

Hard to tell from here, but could probably be in better shape, considering takeing it of and checking.....

A trick.

Take some vacumehose and put one side in youre ear.
Start the engine and listen with the other end around the gasket.
If you hear somewhere a changed sizling sound you can find out.
Do the thing I told you above first to eliminate things.

Another thing, get of the airbox and check it.
Might have some loose foam in it wich can disturb things.

There's a few things that can go wrong.

As the car needs choke to run, it seems to be running too lean, but it could also be poor ignition. Don't touch the distributor yet as the car should be able to run without the vacuum advance working (it's an economy device).

Check for vacuum leaks first. You have inspected the vacuum to the distrubutor, that's good. There are two hoses connected to the manifold: Ensure that there are no leaks there. One goes to the brake servo, the other to the popup headlight mechanism. Inspect and replace any worn hoses.

Check ignition (not the distributor yet): Check all spark plugs. Check the leads with an ohm-meter (should show between 1kOhm and 3kOhm AFAIR depending on length). Check the distributor cap and rotor. The cap should be without signs of sparks on the terminals, and the same goes for the rotor. Replace both if you are in doubth.

Then remove the carburettor, take it apart and clean it. This car has been standing for a long time, right? Petrol can form a greasy substance over years which will block the small passages in the carb. Take a look at my page http://dinsen.net/murena/carburettor/ for inspiration. Replace main gasket and o-ring, and needle valve. Adjust float height. Your photo just shows the connections to the carb, it shows nothign about how it looks inside!

You have a new fuel pump, but the pump is probably the least critical component in this system. The carb must be perfect, though.

I owe all I know about this to Roy - we can ask him if you run out of luck, but I think you have a bit to work on now :)

Good luck!

yes, i know..... was actually a pic i took of the fuel inlet, just posted it cause it was around there. Seem to remember someone talked about how to check if there where any leaks on the carb-head gasket.... could a leak here give these problems? The tank and vacuum to the tank seem ok, since the lights rise normally.

Leaks in the circuit for the popup headlights show when you shut off the engine and switch on the light: even several minutes later it should be able to lift the headlights (at least once).

Yes, the gasket can cause problems, but not likely. More likely is a restricted or blocked fuel channel.

I have had the gasket leaking slightly, but that did not cause any running problems, only petrol fumes in the engine room (smell of fuel).

You need to address this problem very systematically or you will end up frustrated and have wasted a lot of time! ;)

quote Anders
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 Don't touch the distributor yet.
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Sorry Anders, I don't agree on that.
If the rubber inside the vacumepot on the ignition is leaking, then false air will come from there in the carbs right away.
If the car was standing for a very long time you should also change the fuell, and agreed, the carb should be cleaned.

or in case you are lazy, put in a new carb ;D

(http://i19.tinypic.com/89r5n2h.jpg)

I guess a bottle of carb-cleaner would be a TOO easy way to go then.....  :D ;D

Of course.


Carb-cleaner is perfect if you disassemble the carb and let the parts soak in it.

Unless the carb is badly worn e.g. in the spindle bearing or due to corrosion - which is unlikely considering the low mileage, fitting a new carb shouldn't be necessary.

I thought that the CIC carb on the 2.2 was long gone and no more to found anywhere....?

The Lancia Beta had the CIC 34 to.
Simon stil has them new and exchange but you pay deerly.
Sometimes you find them on auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LANCIA-BETA-1800-SOLEX-34-CIC-CARBURETOR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ33550QQihZ016QQitemZ260198783285QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

Edit:
There is a article on this item here

http://www.matraclub.org.uk/faq9.html

Hmm. is it just me, or was this VERY cheap considering Pollitech's price on this item.....?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LANCIA-BETA-1800-SOLEX-34-CIC-CARBURETOR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ33550QQihZ016QQitemZ260198783285QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LANCIA-BETA-1800-SOLEX-34-CIC-CARBURETOR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ33550QQihZ016QQitemZ260198783285QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V)

Pollitech:
Solex carburetor 34 CIC (Murena 2.2)                      HT € 384.10



149$ =  820 NOK

384€ = 3264 NOK

Yes, its cheap, but don't forget it is a setup for a Lancia 1800 engine.
You stil have to work on the setup.
Read the article in the link I provided.

The guy I bought the Murena from did the carbchange and payed over €300

Is the carb on you're car that bad you want to change it?

try to contact HBpiècesauto (hbpiecesauto@free.fr) www.hbpiecesauto.com

If you need a new original carburettor SOLEX 34 CIC for Murena 2.2, I have one for you.
Call me by e-mail : adewael@skynet.be

How much work is is setting it up for the Murena for the Lancia then? since jets and that stuff are the same.


Andre, how much is the price for it then...? And how come you have an new one since it have been out of production many years now?

Jets and venturis are not necessarily the same, and I notice from the photo on the auction that the fuel inlets are also located differently. There is also a vacuum connection on the back of the carb, which the Murena 34CIC does not have. It will probably require some work and moving over of parts from the old carb in which case I don't think you will benefit at all.


Probably old stock.

André, welcome to the forum. Good to have you here :)

Oh, thought the jets and venturies were the same since it was a CIC, and that the letters indicated this....
Rather much work it seem than.....

Still don't know whats with the engine, must try to start somewhere checking it.
Anders, do you remember the temp.unit Bjørn Anders replaced with the one you supplied? The old one was still in a box in the car, so I took the old mulitmeter and checked the reistence in it, seem to work fine, and gave an different reading after putting it in hot water, so shouldnt it be working just fine.....?

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Still don't know whats with the engine, must try to start somewhere checking it.
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Its realy not that difficult.
If I were you I checked ignition, put in a new rotor cables and distributorcap.
4 new N7YC sparkplugs.
Adjust ignition.
Change the fuel clean the carb check for vacumeleaks and asjust the valves.
Standard procedure voor tuning the engine.

Could be, Bjørn Anders could not find out which one was faulty. It's either the sensor, the wiring or the instrument itself. The instrument is unlikely to be faulty (but it can't be ruled out, of course), so I think you should check the wiring carefully first using your multimeter, measuring from the instrument side back to the sensor. You can then compare measurements with those taken on the sensor itself  (with the connection disconnected of course).

The sensor is supposed to have the following approximate resistance values, but I haven't been able to confirm them by actual measurements:

50 deg C: 70 Ohm
80 deg C: 30 Ohm
110 deg C: 13 Ohm

Hmm, strange... Measured the extra unit here now, in room tempca, 20C it gave a reading of about 50... and dropping rather evenly....

I'll see if I can get a measurement on mine during the weekend.

Thank you for your welcome !

In the years ’90, I bought a new carburetor at Delcourt (MATRA stock parts in France).
It’s a new SOLEX 34 CIC for Murena 2.2
The price is : 300 € + carriage.

I have a second carburetor (the same original Murena 2.2 : SOLEX 34 CIC). It’s old of 50000 km but in very good condition.  The price is : 150 € + carriage.

Best regards,

Bienvenue André  ;) sur cet autre forum Matra

Hmm, I'm beginning to wonder if this one could have something to do with the bad running of the engine..... Since it connects to the manifold after the carb and is FAR to wide for the connector....

Did some more checking now.....

Grounded the wire to the temp sensor in the enginebay, and the meter went all the way to the top, both of the temp sensors also give a reading on the ohm-meter, but no reaction on the meter in the car....
From this I would say that the wiring seems to be okay, since it is transmitting the signal.
The meter also seems okay, or is there something with it so it need lower resistance from the sensor?
Or is the sensors(even both) broken, so much so that they are giving a too high resistence for the meter to give a reading?

 ??? ??? ???

Control if the engine has good ground.
Sometimes connections from front to rear are coroded.
Also because of bad ground engine can run badly.
Fix the hose.
Get the sensor out and try with a lighter first grounding it ofcourse.
Check for air in the watersystem.