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roy4matra
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« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 11:46:10 pm » |
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The Murena was much more expensive than a Fuego...
'Much more expensive'. Where do you get the figures to support that statement David? The Murena was an extremely cheap car at the time. Fact: Renault Fuego GTX was £6888 in 1981 in the U.K. whilst the Murena 2.2 was £6900 taxes paid! (A 1.6 Murena was only £5900 which was actually cheaper than the Bagheera had been, adjust for time difference) A Lotus Esprit 2.2 was £15,270!! I know as I bought my Murena new and researched the prices of various cars at the time. In fact my Murena 2.2 was even cheaper than the highest price Cortina which was something like £7200! I have seen this statement a number of times about the Murena being expensive and I don't know where it comes from. The Bagheera was overpriced in this country, particularly for it's power output, but I always thought the Murena was under-priced, not that I was complaining. It gave me a chance to buy new my 'supercar'. I still think it is the best looking, and all round practical sports car ever. In terms of a history lesson, I too have heard it stated that the Murena was considered a threat to the Fuego, but personally I think it was too much a threat to the Alpine which was nearly three times the price, and the Fuego thing was a smoke screen for the threat to the Alpine. Roy
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« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 11:50:07 pm by roy4matra »
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roy4matra
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 09:06:02 am » |
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Oh dear! All these conspiracy theories! I think it was more a case of "Not invented here" syndrome at PSA. They phased out all the models they had inherited from Chrysler/Simca within a few years and historically were never really interested in building sports cars. They preferred to concentrate on the 205 GTi, which, commercially, was probably the right decision.
PSA didn't phase out the Murena. In fact, personally I think PSA were stupid. Why did they buy Chrysler France at all? They didn't need any of the models which were mostly old and the new one about to come out (Tagora) was a direct competitor to their 604 and was a large car just when these were not big sellers! Having taken over Chrysler France (Simca) the range needed new models that could sell, and the two that didn't compete with anything they had, was the Murena and the latest project which eventually became the Espace. But they didn't try to rescue anything and simply phased out everything including the new Talbot name within a few years. So back to my question - why did they bother buying Chrysler France in the first place? As for Renault, we know that Renault wanted a family vehicle in their range and had worked on several examples already. So they were enthusiastic about the Espace prototype right from the beginning, especially as much of the work had already been done and it wasn't going to cost them a great deal - remember they were not in a great financial situation at the time too. As to whether the move to kill the Murena because it was a threat to any of their models has any validity is anyone's guess. It is more likely that Matra took the decision that since they had limited factory capacity at that time, and they would henceforth be working with Renault, so links with and parts from PSA would cause problems, allied to the fact that to re-engineer the Murena for Renault mechanics would require new type approval and therefore cost too much, are what really made them decide to end it. I don't think it's valid to compare prices in the UK. The Murena was never going to sell there because it was only available with left hand drive.
As far as I'm concerned, whether you compare U.K. prices or European prices, the Murena was still cheap and not 'Much more expensive' as stated, which is what I was correcting. The Murena 2.2 was just £5300 before tax in Belgium in 1981. That was not expensive in 1981 by any standard. Roy
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« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 10:41:48 am by roy4matra »
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roy4matra
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 09:54:54 am » |
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Well, I have to go to my work, but... I had to find the pricelists, so in 1982 in Germany the price of Murena 2,2 was 25.600,-DM and Fuego GTX (2,0 110PS) was 23.900,-DM Therefore the Murena was just 7% more in Germany. That is not 'Much more expensive'. I rest my case. :-) The prices of all cars in all countries tends to vary depending on what the marketing people think they can sell a particular model for in their marketplace, and how much profit they want to get! For instance some years ago Mercedes cars in Britain were always much higher relatively than in Germany as they pushed the brand up market here and attempted to compete with Rolls. The point is that in 1982, the Murena was really a competitor to the Lotus Esprit except that it didn't have as much power (but it had better reliability). It was hand made by a small company using many parts from the larger companies. It was mid-engined, glass-fibre on a galvanised chassis, had disc brakes all round, most items were standard (on the 2.2 model the only original extra was metallic paint) so it had alloy wheels, 60% profile tyres (rare at the time) electric windows, tinted glass, etc. Yet the Lotus was more than twice the price! That is what I call much more expensive. The nearest true competitors on price were the Mazda RX7 or Porsche 924 and both were several thousand pounds more, with a lower specification in the case of the 924. The Murena was a proper sports car and therefore not a competitor to the Fuego or Sirocco or any other front wheel drive saloon based coupe in my opinion. They are simply not in the same league. Performance is not the factor. You can buy a Skyline GT-R that will out-perform most cars but that does not, and never will make it a sports car. The marketing people have corrupted many of the car designations, particularly the 'GT'. GT stands for Grand Turisimo and covers cars like Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc. Putting 'GT' on a 'Hot Hatch' does not make it a GT! So the Murena was priced at a similar price to the saloon based coupes of its time, and much cheaper than it's real category competitors. Roy
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suffolkpete
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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 02:10:08 pm » |
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As I see it, the Matra was intended much more as a “peoples” sports car in line with the Bagheera rx7 and 924 that you mention I regarded rthe Murena as a French attempt to build a proper sports car that was easy to look after , economical to run and reliable, through being based on mass market car components, rather like the MG and Triumph sports cars. In this respect they were very successful. The problem was that Peugeot had swallowed Citroen and Chrysler in quick succession and were too tied up with launching the 205 and the BX to bother with a low volume niche market product, so if they didn't exactly phase it out, they let it wither. I should imagine that the opportunity to build the Espace was something of a lifeline, as they could see the way the Murena and Rancho were heading, and they would have been foolish not to take it.
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