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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2008, 11:30:43 am » |
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I know that works ok but I wil try to experiment with that first. The last ower puted the new carb on, but have no idea how well he adjusted it. All settings I have done sofar are by hearing and smelling and looking at the smoke of the exhaust. Apart from the accelration problem the car runs fine and uses 11 km/litre with easy driving. Color of the bougies are fine, light brown so not to lean or to rich. I tought the adjustment of the accelerationpump is only for low rpm when driving off. Will try out.
With that km/l number it sounds like the carb is perfect overall, so that's good. I googled for accelerator pump and this came up: "When you open the throttle, the airflow increases immediately but the fuel (being more dense than air) takes a moment to catch up with the increased airflow. This would result in a lean mixture for a few moments (the car would hesitate), so the carburetor has an accelerator pump built into the side of it which supplies a shot of fuel to ensure smooth acceleration. The accelerator pump connected by a linkage to the accelerator; when acceleration is required, the pump squirts a spray of fuel directly into the throat of the carburetor to momentarily increase the fuel-to-air concentration." source: http://www.vw-resource.com/accelerator_pump.htmlI think that more or less answers your question: the pump is needed throughout the rpm range.
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142 2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
Used to own: 2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v 1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V 1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
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Oetker
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2008, 07:34:38 am » |
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I have no record of where the carb comes from but try to find out what is mounted. Its the last problem concerning the engine. Apart from this problem it runs perfect. Made a test drive this week, about 400 miles, and it was a real pleasure. This was the longest drive since 1990 for the car. Since that time it did only 200 miles a year. Still a lot of small jobs to do, but I didn't pay the world for the car €4000 and it was with mot (NB: its taxfree in the Netherlands). Thinking about GPL, and then is the carb not so impotant. Ther is a firm overhere that has build it in a 2.2 Murena and it increased the power to S spec. http://www.iwemalpg.com/Matra_Murena22.htm
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
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Oetker
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2009, 08:42:47 am » |
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Finaly found the solution to the problem. During experiments I noticed that if I have the ignition 10 degree before UDP, there is the sound of premature detonation during acceleration. Last week I picked up a new distr.cap and rotor at Car-joy for the 2.2. They didn't fit I removed the ignition to see what was mounted. It took me 2 hours to get it of This was the ignition mounted. After some researsch, I found out this is a systeem for a Tagora. Searching the box with spares, I found this one. This is a Bosch 0237002069, wich is the right one for the 2.2. Why is this in the box with spares, and not on the car? Mechanical it was ok, and the Hall sensor works fine. I puted it on the car with the new rotor and cap, and after some adjusting on carbs, this was the result. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6b1P7eakSkIn driving I have the feeling I gained 30BHP. The car is very responsive, and for the first time since I own the car I have the feeling it is ok. Think Tagora ignitions don't belong on the car, no matter what people tell you.
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 09:04:55 am by Oetker »
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
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Anders Dinsen
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2009, 12:30:58 am » |
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Think Tagora ignitions don't belong on the car, no matter what people tell you.
Glad to hear you found the problem. Ignition is at least as critical as carburation! But I find it odd that the Ducellier couldn't do the job and that you had pinking with it advanced to 10 degrees. This distributor must have failed - one of the advance springs could be broken causing it to go into max advance too early? There may be small performance differences between the Ducellier and Bosch dizzy's depending on the carburettor and state of engine tuning, but these should be small. And if you think about it, the Tagora ignition should work just as well as anything else fitted on that engine. The carb is different, but this is because the engine is rotated in the Murena and the direction of travel on the carb has to be correct for it to work correctly during acceleration and cornering. Have you checked the Bosch distributor? You can do it with it on the car, but you have to remove the pickup coil to get a look. It's also a good idea to lubricate the parts down there so they won't seize up. I have a few photos of the internals of the Bosch here: http://gallery.dinsen.net/v/biler/Matra/technical/carb/dizzy//Anders
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1982 Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 prep 142 2017 BMW i3 "Charged Professional" 94Ah
Used to own: 2001 Renault Matra Grand Espace "The Race" V6 24v 1997 Renault Matra Espace 2.0 8V 1987 Renault Matra Espace J11 2.2
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Oetker
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2009, 11:06:34 pm » |
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Indeed it's strange. I took the Ducelier/Tagora apart and couldn't find anything wrong with it. I can have no other conclusion then something has to be different compared to the Bosch ignition. I still have pinging if I adjust to 10 degree before UDP. I only hear it if I put my feet down to the floor. If I keep it between 8-9 no pinging. I use 98 superplus but if I put octane booster pil in, pinging is less. Car is running smooth now, and before I changed ignition it wasn't
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
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Oetker
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Posts: 1097
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2009, 09:11:46 am » |
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When I bought the car 1.5 year ago not much was driven with it. Since 1990 only a few thousend miles. I suspected carbon and puted in a horsepill to clean it (brakefluid). I changed the sparkplugs to BP6ES (adjusted 0,6 mm distance). Last year I drove 5000 miles, mostly on the highway, so I presume it is clean now. The sparkplugs look light brown so not to lean or to rich mixture.
The Ducelier looks rusty, but anything works like it should. Mayby the weights or springs are different., I don't know, all I know is that the car runs a lot better.
I am not shure what you mean with advance, but I adjusted ignition with a strobo light. Od thing, the car pings the most on Shell V power. Are they using methanol dopes in the product? For the time being it works ok, but I am thinking to put the car on GPL, because the future fuels will kill the engine.
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« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 09:15:46 am by Oetker »
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I feel like Jonah, only my fish looks different. Murena 2.2 Red 1982. Murena 1.6 black on places.
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