MatraSport Forum
Each model => Murena => Topic started by: GP on May 09, 2010, 10:00:16 pm
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I currently have a 2.2 Murena gearbox being refurbished and a Quaife Automatic Torque Biasing (ATB) Limited Slip Differential being fitted at the same time.
http://www.quaife.co.uk/differentials
http://www.quaife.co.uk
This work is being carried out by a Citroen / Lotus Esprit Transmission Specialist in Holland called HML LIMMEN.
http://ds-vitesse.com
The Murena gearbox being based on the CX. The proprietor Harry Martens offered various different ratios also, but I have stuck with the Murena's ratio as these were the closest of the different options available.
Will keep you posted on developments.
G.P.
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That is very interesting, indeed!
I'll be looking forward to hearing what kind of results you get from the LSD. Nice to see someone specialised in the good old CX gearbox! What's the price range for such a rebuild/upgrade?
/Anders
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Anders: I saw this on French Matra forum and price is cca 1200,-E :o
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When I first looked at the Quaife differential, it reminded me of the Gleason-Thorsen locking differential. But the worm gears are not connected the same way and they do say it is not locking the wheels. The Gleason-Thorsen does that.
I would be very interested in hearing if you got a cost breakdown of the work. Like, how much is for the refurb and how much for the diff. What does the refurbishment include? synchros, bearings, ??
Here are some pics of what the Gleason-Thorsen looks like. The T2 look similar to to the Quaife I think. The T1 is the original G-T locking diff.
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Anders: I saw this on French Matra forum and price is cca 1200,-E :o
Not too bad, considering what you get. Quaife LSD's are race proven quality items, stuff like that is expensive. And I bet it will improve Gramham's speed out of corners!
/Anders
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Interesting indeed!
Maybe I will have to work one additional months on this post in order to generate the necessary funds :D
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Hi all,
Michael is correct with his pricing for the differential upgrade. It is also approximately Euro 800 for a standard rebuild, plus bearings, gears, synchro's etc. as required.
Quaife is actually only about 10 miles from me and I have had a tour of the factory, which is well worthwhile if you are ever given the chance. I have experience of the Quaife ATB differential which I had fitted in a modified 310bhp / 308lft/lb Suburu Impreza RB5 a few years ago. These diffs are pretty awesome and I always like to support the local economy anyway. :)
The problem though is finding a specialist with the expertise and the knowledge who is able and prepared to work on such a gearbox. Having found HML and looked at his website, I realized that this project had to go ahead regardless of cost, as I will be a long time dead.
Cheers,
G.P.
P.S. I won't even dare mention the shipping costs with DHL Express airfreight from the UK to the Netherlands. :o
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Nice pictures with the left rear wheel in the air.
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I too enjoy your 'in action' photo of the Murena on 'the hill'! :)
The diff will also help keep your feet closer to the ground as you'll be able to accelerate earlier out of the corner, shifting weight rearwards, so so the 'one-wheel-in-the-air' effect will be less dramatic.
I assume the subaru had the diff installed in the photo? of course it benefits from 4WD...
/Anders
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Yes the Subaru in the photo is the one with the differential fitted, which I owned and competed in Sprints and Hillclimbs for a few years. Very fast and clinical, but not half as challenging and fun as driving a mid-engined Murena on the limit.
G.P.
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Gearbox arrived in Holland on the 7th. May friday afternoon. Harry e-mailed me the 11th. May:
I would like you to know the gearbox is ready.
I had a lot of extra work removing the halfshaft out of the standard open diff.
All synchrorings on first 4 gears were badly worn and the conus on 4th gear was totally gone.
I had to place a new cogwheel.
I also put in new differential bearings.
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A pretty good turnaround indeed. Just have to arrange payment, then I can have the gearbox back. ::)
G.P.
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The gearbox with the Quaife ATB Limited Slip Differential is now installed in the car. It is very quiet and slick through the gears.
I will be testing it in anger at Lydden Hill Race Circuit for a 2 x day sprint meeting on the 14th. and 15th. August,
which will be covered by Motors TV for a 1 x hour special.
Camping overnight with plenty of beer and pig racing, courtesy of the London Irish Motor Club.
Oh dear it will get very untidy! :)
http://www.londonirishmotorclub.com/
http://londonirishmotorclubsprint.com/Documents/LIMC%20Sprint%20Weekend%2010%20Regs%20-%20%20final.pdf
Cheers,
GP
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----- Just have to arrange payment, then I can have the gearbox back. ::)
G.P.
So, how much did it set you back ? ???
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----- Just have to arrange payment, then I can have the gearbox back. ::)
G.P.
So, how much did it set you back ? ???
Matra Murena Quaife ATB Differentail: Euro 1200:00
Standard rebuild/overhaul with installation of Differential : Euro 1000:00
Plus vat 19%
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Matra Murena Quaife ATB Differentail: Euro 1200:00
Standard rebuild/overhaul with installation of Differential : Euro 1000:00
Plus vat 19%
Ouch! That is half of what I paid for my car. ;D
But it sure looks nice and on the track it will make a big difference in tight corners, where the Murena likes to lift the inside rear wheel.
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I competed recently in my Talbot Matra Murena 2.2 with my newly installed HML Limmen rebuilt gearbox with Quaife ATB Differential fitted in 2-day Sprint at Lydden Hill Race Circuit in KENT, UK.
It rained heavily on the Saturday and the car blew away completely the comparable opposition. On the Sunday it was dry and I improved on my previous best time by 3 secs. over 1.75 laps of the circuit., which in Sprinting terms is quite substantial!
The car has now been transformed quite dramatically with all the tramping and oversteer virtually eliminated on cornering. Even acceleration is noticeably different from a standing start, being so much smoother with tyre spin reduced. What is so amazing is how the Differential deals with all this seamlessly when it is a purely mechanical device. The gearbox itself also provided positive and effortless gear changes all day, which cannot be faulted in any way.
I would recommend the Quaife ATB Differential and the prompt and skilled services of HML Limmen to anyone.
GP
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Results from North Weld Sprint 29/09/10.
If I could compete in Class A2 for up to 2 litre Cars I would have won the class.
GP
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I am curious. It looks like sometihing is mounted in front of your car. what is it?
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I guess it's for the timing device?
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I guess it's for the timing device?
Correct. A timing beam is broken across the start line with this "Timing Strut" to start the timing equiptment. When you cross the finish line wherever that is, there is another beam across the track which is broken to stop the timing equiptment and give you course time.
GP
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Thanks for sharing your experiences with the diff, Graham! It's really interesting that you have gained that much, though not completley surprising that it has reduced oversteer significantly and improved acceleration. I guess it's a "must have" for any serious tuning. The price is reasonable, though out of most peoples budgets, but I'd call it a mandatory upgrade for any racing Murena before you go start going to extremes with the engine!
/Anders
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That is a very interesting car you have build GP. Would you mind summing up the modifications you have made to it at some point?.. perhaps in a separate thread ?? :)
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That is a very interesting car you have build GP. Would you mind summing up the modifications you have made to it at some point?.. perhaps in a separate thread ?? :)
For me too ;) I'm interested in Your engine mods (for example when I saw that Your engine reaches 6700 rpm, how is it possible?).
Btw: are You using the polyurethan parts in Your suspension? I did it on my front anti-roll bar and that is a big difference, so now, when my engine is demounted, I will use polyurethan silentblocs also for rear anti-roll bar.
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That is a very interesting car you have build GP. Would you mind summing up the modifications you have made to it at some point?.. perhaps in a separate thread ?? :)
Hi Krede,
yes I can do that in the near future in a seperate post.
GP
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[/quote] Btw: are You using the polyurethan parts in Your suspension? I did it on my front anti-roll bar and that is a big difference, so now, when my engine is demounted, I will use polyurethan silentblocs also for rear anti-roll bar. [/quote]
Hi Michal,
I am using standard matra components all round on the suspension. I once fitted solid P.T.F.E. bushes in the rear trailing arms, but found these too stiff and the rear would snap away instantly. With the Matra bushes you can feel the rear end going into oversteer and it gives you more drivability. I must admit that I would love to fit polyurethane bushes in the anti roll bars myself and also rose joint the drop links at the rear in the future, so will bear your experience in mind. Are you able to supply a source for these polyurethane bushes?
Whilst on the subject I did once remove the rear anti-roll bar completely and fit 600ft/lb springs on the rear shock absorbers. Unless you want to die violenty do not try this modification! :)
GP
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Just been sent this by Harry Martens,
http://www.youtube.com/user/dsvitesse1?feature=mhsn
His new website is worth a look too.
http://www.ds-vitesse.com/
GP
