MatraSport Forum
Each model => Murena => Topic started by: Jon Weywadt on December 06, 2013, 04:05:36 pm
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Can a Peugeot 505 turbo engine and cx tgi gearbox fit straight into a Murena?
If not, what needs to be modified? Engine mounts? Other?
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It should fit without any modifications to the chassis. And it's fast! 8)
Martijn
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...and hot ;)
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On the turbo engine there are no threads in the cylinder head for the upper engine support.
In the Murena’s chassis there is not sufficient space for the turbocharger, therefore you will need to remove part the Murena's heat shield, further the turbocharger will be placed where the Murena have part of its gearshift mechanism, modifications will have to be made.
You will have to use the sump from the Murena engine and not all of the bolts and the treads are in line.
The 505 turbo engine has an air-cooled intercooler which is rather useless with centerengine layout, an alternative solution must be found.
The water pipe under the Murena’s carburettors must be modified.
CX GTI gearbox you will need the bellhouse from the Murena, further the mounting points and gearshift arms are different on the CX gearbox.
regards Hans
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On the turbo engine there are no threads in the cylinder head for the upper engine support.
In the Murena’s chassis there is not sufficient space for the turbocharger, therefore you will need to remove part the Murena's heat shield, further the turbocharger will be placed where the Murena have part of its gearshift mechanism, modifications will have to be made.
You will have to use the sump from the Murena engine and not all of the bolts and the treads are in line.
The 505 turbo engine has an air-cooled intercooler which is rather useless with centerengine layout, an alternative solution must be found.
The water pipe under the Murena’s carburettors must be modified.
CX GTI gearbox you will need the bellhouse from the Murena, further the mounting points and gearshift arms are different on the CX gearbox.
regards Hans
Thanks Hans.
It may be more work than I am prepared to do. :P Would be sweet, though. ;D
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Wow, didn't know it was such a hussle....
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... and I forgot an important thing: The suction pipe in the tank must be replaced with 10 or 12 mm pipe, in order to secure sufficient fuel for the turbo engine under acceleration. On the 505 Turbo the pipe has a 10 mm diameter.
Hans
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Can a Peugeot 505 turbo engine and cx tgi gearbox fit straight into a Murena?
If not, what needs to be modified? Engine mounts? Other?
As well as being reasonably quick (although no quicker than a well tuned naturally aspirated engine) you will have problems with heat, where to fit and plumb in the intercooler etc., but also it can easily destroy clutches.
The Murena has such good traction with the weight over the driving wheels, that if you try a really quick start by dropping the clutch at revs, it will not break traction at the wheels - it will spin the clutch instead! We had a few turbo modified Murena here in the U.K. at the beginning, and the one I knew, kept burning out clutches which is not the sort of thing you want to have to replace frequently. So if you or anyone fits a turbo or other really high powered engine, then seriously consider uprating the clutch too. You have been warned. :-)
Roy
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A clutch from a CX turbo I or II will be a straigth fit. A CX turbo II has 185 hp.
Hans
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Can a Peugeot 505 turbo engine and cx tgi gearbox fit straight into a Murena?
If not, what needs to be modified? Engine mounts? Other?
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You have been warned. :-)
Roy
Thanks Roy.
I had not thought of that angle. It's just that a 505 turbo engine may be available.
I have all the parts for converting mine to fuel injection. Not that it will make it faster, but maybe easier to start and more economical.
Adding a cam from an S would make it quick enough.
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Hi Jon,
What parts do you have for the fuel injection? And what car did they come from?
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Hi Jon,
What parts do you have for the fuel injection? And what car did they come from?
The manifold and injectors came from a 505 and I have a broad band Lambda probe and a MegaSquirt engine controller.
Should be a fairly doable job. The manifold is a straight fit on the Murena head.
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(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n544/wobbe98/div/peugeot505turbo.jpg)
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That is what it looks like. :o
I notice the extensive modification to the trunk to make room for a blower assisted intercooler (I suspect) I also see the air filter bottom right. ???
Also a large electric fuel pump on the firewall to feed the beast. ;D
I think I will skip the turbo conversion and just go with a S Cam and injector manifold. :D
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A clutch from a CX turbo I or II will be a straigth fit. A CX turbo II has 185 hp.
Hans
Not quite right Hans. The friction plate from the Citroen will fit, but not the pressure plate (to my knowledge). That has to fit the flywheel which is a Tagora engine part. And it is the spring pressure from the pressure plate that is the problem - it is not high enough. You need more spring pressure to cope with the increased torque and power. The friction plate may be fine, or you can fit the better ones from the more powerful Citroen as you suggest, but without the higher clamping force the plate will still slip and spin under high provocation. :-)
That is why I say you need to get the pressure plate uprated if you fit a turbo. Maybe the 505 turbo pressure plate is suitable?
Roy
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Adding a cam from an S would make it quick enough.
Actually the 'S' cam is not that good in my opinion. It had high lift but relatively short duration. The Holbay 58C profile which I have had done on a number of cams, is much better. It has slightly less lift but longer duration - 296 degrees compared to 279 and valve overlap is 76 degrees compared to only 56.5 with the 'S' cam. I have driven an 'S' with the Holbay cam and I know it is better. And of course there is the cost - to buy an 'S' cam is lots of money, but a reprofile is something like £10 per lobe or £80 plus carr. and VAT. Obviously Holbay are no longer in operation, but there are others like Kent Cams or Burton or Piper and I'm sure there are others. If they need the spec. I have many of the common ones. I even have a Holbay 57C in my box which I haven't tried yet - it is even more aggressive than the 58C with 'S' type lift and slightly longer duration and overlap even than the 58C!
Roy
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(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n544/wobbe98/div/peugeot505turbo.jpg)
Yes but that has ruined the boot space! I love the practicality of the Murena that can take three people and three good suit cases when required. I took a long trip to Le Mans a few years back with three people and all our luggage and the car coped well. I even got 39 mpg for the trip simply because we stuck to the 'D' roads and the speed limits (we were on holiday so didn't need to rush). That didn't mean I wasn't driving quite quickly when the road was open and traffic free but I was not using hard acceleration generally and cruising at no more than 110 kph or lower depending on the speed limits. Of course you rarely need to slow for corners... :-)
Roy
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That one is for sale at Carjoy at this moment.
However, a turbo conversion is possible with less extensive modifications. I had one (years ago) without any modification of the trunk, only some electronic parts were located there.
You can find pictures from several owners with such a 2l2 turbo conversion on the internet, for instance:
http://members.chello.nl/d.bruin11/ and then the last fotos.
Some information in French can be found at:
http://www.espace-murena.com/articles.html under Moteur 2L2 TURBO
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...and hot ;)
Yep and then it ends like this.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2RIeK0RTpOU/T2enrZ7v80I/AAAAAAAAAk0/KcUUHjMIjvU/s800/P1010347.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G77GK51rlp4/T2entC6Z_5I/AAAAAAAAAlM/P7GvE4NFIOM/s800/P1010351.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ovBSG4MQSMs/T2entp_S_gI/AAAAAAAAAlQ/iUsGYzwH4kQ/s800/P1010352.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-npK2R_DAQi0/T2en1ATu-GI/AAAAAAAAAmY/Pn-ZkjDbnmY/s800/P1010364.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vKtbc7uQCdY/T2enyGTEryI/AAAAAAAAAmI/3iqcp0RSJ_o/s800/P1010359.JPG)(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vKtbc7uQCdY/T2enyGTEryI/AAAAAAAAAmI/3iqcp0RSJ_o/s800/P1010359.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ou68YnN91SY/T2en1bY3PcI/AAAAAAAAAno/NvFAILHz_X8/s800/P1010365.JPG)
Better keep the engine original as it is to hot for the turbo engine in there.
It has sufficient power to keep up with traffic nowadays.
Even my 1.6 do nice and street racing, you will loose all.
The car is from a different era ;)
Herman
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hello
http://members.chello.nl/d.bruin11/
Thats was my turbo murena,the conversion is very easy, you can use the murena gearbox, only use a clutchplate
from a citroen cx diesel.
you must modify the gearlever a little bit next to the turbo, it was almost nothing.
i mount the intercooler under a angle and under it a elektric fan see photo 's on my site, and it WAS COOL even in a traffic jam !!! (don't believe all stories of others, i drive it for 6 years , it was COOL)
Believe me it is the most easy conversion of a murena.
My murena is now by carjoy, the engine is for sale , i want now a v6 turbo conversion
Eric
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I believe your engine was sold by Carjoy a few days ago.
Martijn
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Hoi Martijn
I hope so.
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I have some extra exhaust, inlet, pipes and IC from 505 turbo inj from N9T engine. 3-4sets. Also some pistons, heads etc
(http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad17/vellumasa/Osat/BILD0374.jpg) (http://s917.photobucket.com/user/vellumasa/media/Osat/BILD0374.jpg.html)
V-M
Finland
