MatraSport Forum
Each model => Murena => Topic started by: variator on January 09, 2015, 07:31:30 pm
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Does anyone know where I can buy a new master brake cylinder to my Murena?(Without paying an extreme price, which I think for example Simon asks for)
I have Bendix original part number but can not find someone who sells this cylinder.
Found this Peugeot cylinder, but is in doubt whether it ican be used ..... anyone know?
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Brakes-Master-Cylinder-Peugeot-504-505-FBM4171-/160967829858
Murena original have this number: 131446B (Bendix)
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Does anyone know where I can buy a new master brake cylinder to my Murena?
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Are you sure you need a completely new cylinder?
Check out my post on how I honed mine and installed new seals. It works perfectly again.
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,2023.0.html (http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,2023.0.html)
Perfect time to clean and paint the power brake vacuum tank too. ;)
Regards.
Jon
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No, do not necessarily need a new cylinder, but it annoys me to pay 20 euros+32 euro shipping to Simon for
gasket kit!(?), when the Peugeot cylinder costs me less, complete! :-[
Actually, I believe the Peugeot cylinder fits, if screw spacing and flange diameter toward the brake assist is equal, pump diameter is at least the same!
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Now I have installed a master brake cylinder for the Peugeot 504 on my Murena 2.2. This worked very well and this is a solution that costs a fraction of what a "original" cylinder costs, only GBP 17.60 + shipping! ;)
As you can see in the picture this cylinder has a third nipple. This is to vent the cylinder and I mounted a bleed nipple in this hole, so I have an extra opportunity to bleed the cylinder.
This is probably easier on the Peugeot, there the cylinder sits slightly downwards towards the brake servo.
This cylinder has the same diameter as the cylinder on the Murena (20,6mm), but it is a bit longer. Braking power actually feels a little better than with the old one.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2059210.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0&_nkw=Brakes+Master+Cylinder+Peugeot+504%2F505+FBM4171&_sacat=0
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OK, good job.
I used one from a Talbot Horizon but that one refered also to Murena numbers (Not in all Horizons)
This one only refered to 504 and 505.
There can be a difference that is not visable.
If you get a Murena master apart you see this.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YKv6n_dZQiM/VMvCnUeQLXI/AAAAAAAAF3A/7U2xvwkdegk/s898/Remcil.jpg)
If ther is a difference in lenght it is possible more or less brakeoil goes to the rear or a difference in coming in.
i think you need to contole that.
Maybe I'm a bit nagging and is brake balance fine, but alway be a bit carefull with this things.
In a wet corner you dont want the rear brakes come in to soon.
The diameter 20.64 is ok and because it's longer it could be OK but to be sure compare it.
Herman
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Herman: Had this cylinder the same number as that specified as original number for the Murena 2.2(Bendix 131446B)? I did not find this cylinder anywhere, except through Simon(225 euro)
I am aware that this can be a bit dangerous, but believe that this cylinder would fit well, it is also intended for the estate model that is supposed to have about the same weight distribution(with load) as the Murena.
Having bleeded the system I have tried braking effect on Norwegian slippery winter roads and everything seems at least as good as with the old cylinder.
Incidentally! I assume that there are no load-dependent brake valve on the Murena?
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This is the Bendix number (same as 131446B but 1 oultet more)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CmXfXhZa758/VMxKSo0U2cI/AAAAAAAAF4I/tmsIoEHKPSg/s800/Bendix%2520%2528Custom%2529.jpg)
In my program ther is also ABS
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_yP0ooikzcA/VMxKSilNmkI/AAAAAAAAF4E/yZB9tG-POKU/s800/ATE%2520%2528Custom%2529.jpg)
If you compare the ABS master then you find a wider range of cylinders.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QPN1ELzL9wo/VMxM0cQUpNI/AAAAAAAAF4U/x8VItL5T_GI/s800/Cyl3.jpg)
This numbers you can search and then you find masters for 40-100Euro or less on Ebay (I have the PMF337 for 47 Euro a few years ago)
Confirmed working right.
Most fun is that is also tho find at Amazon ;D
http://www.amazon.co.uk/ABS-1241-Brake-Master-Cylinder/dp/B00CPOIAV0/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1422675487&sr=1-2&keywords=abs1241
Believe it or not, I ordered 2 headgaskets there for my 1.6 Murena and they are delivered :o
http://www.amazon.co.uk/BGA-CH3324-Cylinder-Head-Gasket/dp/B00AMYMLHY
Also to find at Ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Bga-Gasket-Cylinder-Head-for-Peugeot-Talbot-CH3324-/191271927634?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c88b1ff52
30 Euro free shipment at Amazon so ordered 2 (yep, cheaper then Ebay and I am El cheapo)
Quote
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I assume that there are no load-dependent brake valve on the Murena?
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Yes there is a valve, but not load depended.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F2G0lML61dc/VMxQliN2s8I/AAAAAAAAF4g/L8hVHur8iTs/s800/Valve%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
Herman
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Variator, which brake master cylinder did you order? I see on ebay uk different sellers and postagecosts. The one for 17,60 pounds and 20 postagecosts?
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I orderd the one from "Doctor car parts" 17,60 pounds....... Peugeot 504/505 FBM4171.
Be sure that you get the one with the 20.6 mm bore :)
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I orderd the one from "Doctor car parts" 17,60 pounds....... Peugeot 504/505 FBM4171.
Be sure that you get the one with the 20.6 mm bore :)
I looked ad the ad from doctor_car , but in the part specifications they do not mention a piston diameter 20.6 mm.
The FBM4171 has standard 20.6 mm , or does it come with 2 different piston sizes?
How did you be sure that you get the 20.6 mm one?
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I used the cross-reference table on Yoyopart and found the number of the Bendix master cylinder corresponding to the Peugeot sylinder.
When I ordered I found a similar cylinder with 19 mm diameter with a different number, but I do not find this now, when I'm looking ..., it looks like most Peugeot cylinders 405/505 has 20.6 mm diameter or greater.
http://www.yoyopart.com/oem/271325/bendix-131607b.html
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hmmm, it doesn't say in the ad what the piston size is. And via the cross-reference table i can't be sure that i order the 20,6 mm one. So i asked doctor-car is this is the master cylinder with the 20,6 mm piston inside. I hope to get a answer soon.
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Today i got a answer from the seller, doctor_car:
Hi,
I have checked this and the one you need with the 20.6mm bore can be found in ebay listing 400731537319.
Kind Regards, Julee, Sales Administrator, Doctor Car Parts
- doctor_car
So the one they recommend is not 17.60 pouns, but 49.99 pounds. A little difference in price....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400731537319?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D400731537319%26_rdc%3D1
I want to order 3 master cylinders for 17.60 each, but i do not like to gamble...
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The cylinder I bought is also 20.6 diameter.
If you see this Delphi cylinder with numbers LM23526 it is equivalent to the First Line cylinder which I bought
http://www.buycarparts.co.uk/delphi/1761866 (If you want DELPHI and not FIRSTLINE, it is the cheaper here than at eBay)
Check Reference OE / OEM Numbers to the current FBM4171 cylinder!
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Brakes-Master-Cylinder-Peugeot-504-505-FBM4171-/160967829858
BOTH cylinders above is equivalent to Peugeot 4601.71
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No, do not necessarily need a new cylinder, but it annoys me to pay 20 euros+32 euro shipping to Simon for
gasket kit!(?), when the Peugeot cylinder costs me less, complete! :-[
The Peugeot master cylinder maybe cheaper but is the mounting flange angle correct? The Bagheera and Murena for instance are similar master cylinders but the Bagheera flange mounting holes are horizontal whilst the Murena ones are more near to vertical. This is important so that the reservoir mounts horizontally. If the mounting angle is not correct the reservoir would be tipped over, which would compromise the level float and could affect the clutch take-off and fluid reserve for the brakes if the clutch was leaking. Finally the Bagheera has five seals whilst the Murena one has four. So be careful when using items not designed for the application.
Actually, I believe the Peugeot cylinder fits, if screw spacing and flange diameter toward the brake assist is equal, pump diameter is at least the same!
It may fit and work correctly but manufacturers have reasons for providing different units and where brakes are concerned it is not wise to recommend or use non-standard items. Consider the implications of any accident and the legal situation if it was attributed to something like this. Garages won't even overhaul brake items today because of the legal situation. They leave it to the specialists who can test the items overhauled before approving them. Also bear in mind that if an overhauled caliper starts to leak that is only one out of four and the braking should still work acceptably until the fluid leak is noticed, but if a master cylinder fails you can lose all the brakes.
Roy
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The cylinder was purchased as an experiment, but after having installed it it remains there!
Everything works perfectly and the mounting flange angle is correct.
Terje
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OK investigation tells it's not the correct brake master cylinder.
Ordered a set 20.64mm revision kit for the 405.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PDlOZlafNy0/VztPdNuzPEI/AAAAAAAAHMw/R6Vx8n5WGyMQxBCvvpEL2l-02yKCap7wQCCo/s800/P1080258%2B%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GTIomOxcAAM/VztPdcqiUmI/AAAAAAAAHMw/g6c9V3wHAjkFWTj2NQMg8Stouq8iEKfpwCCo/s800/P1080259%2B%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
Compared it with the original Bendix master.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fsnvF5xz3-w/VztPdtbLwGI/AAAAAAAAHMw/DfovIydTbDUU9cVxC8timjT0PKoUHrkHwCCo/s800/P1080260%2B%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zgxVS8In-UE/VztPd2gGHtI/AAAAAAAAHMw/Jv5f_eUZLFIuZzafXD3HleLdSxMdlNSEwCCo/s800/P1080261%2B%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wh7N8UD600M/VztPd7alwLI/AAAAAAAAHMw/SNvhL790yXkkqs5HpcpbY9r4f1dUouy-wCCo/s800/P1080262%2B%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Mn_wRWSX2dc/VztPeDZ1YVI/AAAAAAAAHMw/aAnRcsOMrqgLeRxabr6asytQUk4sCoxUgCCo/s800/P1080263%2B%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
Also springs are different.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DDXx-aYmMd4/VztPeSNDX9I/AAAAAAAAHMw/8vhtnSaXZewg2yOJqlo2rVlBfHB08A0-wCCo/s800/P1080265%2B%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7i6IT-ujPkA/VztPesQXrqI/AAAAAAAAHMw/2APu-N809pUs7T2rGHgDRx5PZD8-6VS8ACCo/s800/P1080266%2B%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
I would not use it as my master cylinder.
It's totaly different.
Is it totaly useless?
No, I used all rubber from the kit to revive the original Bendix.
This investigation leaded me to the fact this rubbers are used on a wide range of cars.
Also found the rubber kit named D1056 from Seinsa.
If you start looking for that number you find several replacements.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7rwOdPx2dnU/VztPcVdgCWI/AAAAAAAAHMw/5Lqvh4tuvoMZn2OjnUpqO6PhVuAKdumtQCCo/s800/CropperCapture%255B3%255D.jpg)
Regards Herman
