MatraSport Forum

Has anybody ever mesured the enginebay of a murena 2.2?.. (mountpoints for the engine/transmission etc)..
Those data would prove quite usefull to me, if i dont succeed in finding a 505 turbo engine (which i think is not gonna be an easy matter....)

I'm sure several people have... Bernhard here has converted to a Douvrin 2165 ccm engine (similar to the one found in Espace 2.2 1987-1996) and will probably know:
http://www.technikhomepage.de/kfz/kfz.html (http://www.technikhomepage.de/kfz/kfz.html)

Ahhh.. greman is mush easier to read then french :)..
Think i'll drop him a mail, though the 2.2 cx engine isnt my first choice for an enigineswap.

Story goes that it was the first choice of engine for Matra, but Renault refused to let them use it as they were fearing competition against their Fuego. So that would be one good reason to choose it. It's engine mounts (as I know it from the Espace) are very different from the Murena 2.2 engine, however (the thermostat would be in the way of the mount against the trunk).

I've read the storey about the renault engine... i think they also wanted to fit a v6 to it, like in the alpine..
I am thinking about a volvo b230ft engine... but thats just an idea.
Anyway, the 505 turbo would be MUCH easier to fit, and to get aproved.. but im not sure It can be made to fit the cx gearbox.

Hi
Check this site:

http://www.espace-murena.com/articles.html
and get info about the instalation of a N9TE engine in a Murena.

505 Turbo engines are however difficult to find. Do you have an engine allready?
Some months a N9TEA engine was for sale at the Duch forum "Matra te koop" low milage and low price due to change of planes.

regards Hans

How is your project going, Hans? :)

No I havent found an engine yet.
I've tried to find one in germany and in sweden,where there tend to be more to choose from, but so far no luck.
The only one I have managed to find so far was located in Australia!!! which.. is a bit to far away.
A shame.. since the 180hp n9te could be fitted, without my murena would have to be taxed again. (the 20% rule)

Thus I am considering alternatives..... as i am exchanging the delorthos for a set of throttlebodies and a "wolf3d" enginemanagement computer as soon as i get home in februrary, the obvious choice would be using the engine already in the car.
However.... I am not sure what kind of power the bottom end of a "normal" 2.2 can manage. 
Id also have to do alot of modifications like, lowering the compression ratio, changing the cam ( Its runnig a german spec "s" cam now) etc.... all in all i might aswell build another engine...especially since the one I have seems to be in quite good shape.. so messing too much with it would be vandalism i think  ;)
 

Anders,
My turbo project has not moved at all. Last winter I was working in Kenya, and this summer in Denmark I have been rebuilding a 250 m2 building on my farm, and I am for the time being using all available hours to get the building finished before the winter. My plan is to start working on the Murena this winter. This is why I have got the Rancho on the road so I will have a car to drive while the Murena in the workshop. You can say that I have started the conversion of my Murena as I have sold the Murena's stainless steel exhaust as is would not be suitable for the turbo. (The standard 505 Turbo has an exhaust pipe with a 65 mm diameter). So now there is no way back.
I have however been asked if I am interested in a new six months contract in Kenya starting 1st January. That will be good for my bank account but bad for the Murena project.

Krede,
The first 505 Turbos had a N9T engine with no intercooler, and for the US marked in the station wagon it developed only as little as 145 HP saloon cars 5 HP more.
The N9TE engine has 165 HP. The E means that is has an intercooler.
The N9TEA engine has 185 HP. It has higher boost pressure than the N9TE engine and an electronically controlled wastegate.
The basic engines should be identical, so up grades are possible. There was a tuning kit available from Peugeot Sport, which raised the power output to 200 HP.
The engine was used in this 200 HP version in the street version of the Citroën BX 4TC.
The Citroën BX 4TC EVO had 380 HP.
Further info on the BX 4TC:
Public BX 4TC register of CitSportSite
I will send you directly an e-mail with a possible seller of a turbo engine.

Regards Hans

Please.. by all means do!!! :)
As i understand it , the first versions also had lower compression  ???

Hello
I am Eric from the netherlands, and i have a 505 turbo engine  build in my car.
It is a N9TEA  180HP.
And it works fine ,it gives you a real kick ,when you push the trottle.
 
Here a link to my website it is only in Dutch.

http://members.chello.nl/d.bruin11/

Hi Eric.. welcome.. and thanks for the link..
Seems like you pretty much have the car I want to make .... you even got the upholstery right :)
How does the Murena gearbox cope with the extra stress?

Hi krede

For the gearbox is it not a problem, it can handle  about  290 Nm of torque.
And I us the Clutch plate off a CX 2,5 ltr  ( it is stronger ), and it has the same gearbox .
And the cooling is also not a problem, under the intercooler I use a strong electric fan.
The only problem I think, is the short first and second gear.
The turbo engine is the easiest conversion for Murena.
And the upholstery  we buy by CARJOY in holland.

 www.carjoy.nl

 Eric

Hi Eric,
Finally and after several attempts I managed to view your pictures here from central Sudan, it took several attempts and some hours at the computer (I am reading while waiting), and before I had seen all pictures my laptop stopped working due to over heating.
It seams that you have found a nice way to get all the components into the engine room. I have seen several German 2.2 turbos and some of them has placed the inter cooler in the luggage compartment and other not very nice modifications. You solution for the packaging looks very nice.
One question though: How do you change sparkplugs with out taking the engine out of the car?

Regards Hans

Hello Hans
 
I took the inlet hoses out ,and I took out  the airflowsensor.
And then it is just like a normal 2.2 engine ,to change  sparkplugs.
Also the  engine is leaning about 2cm forward ,because then the turbo
gets more space to fit.

regards Eric

Thanks for the quick responce.
I have not thought of leaning the engine ore forward, very usefull info.

More questions:
The flexible metal air hoses looks like flexible exhaust pipes to me. Is that the case?
This solution looks a lot better than the colourful silicon tubes, which is normally used.

The by pass valve do not look like the standard Peugeot item to me.
At which boost level are you operating?

I have been looking at the picture below on your page “Aanpassingen”. This must be some modification to the oil sump, (which you have done yourself) correct? As you are writing something about the dept of the inlet to the oil pump and the bigger capacity of the turbo’s pump oil pump
(I am improving my understanding of Dutch)

thanks Hans

Isn't the oil pump of the 505 turbo, identical to the Murena 2.2 but with a different relief spring, to increase oil pressure ? 

 Interesting. I agree that 505 Turbo engine in Murena is the cleanest conversion of this car - it originally is the Simca/Talbot engine, so THIS is possible evolution of this car as the PRV V6 engine in it (but there is no space for it of course).
 But 4 years ago I had simillar plans with my Tagora. I wanted to make the Tagora Turbo conversion. I bought the whole Peugeot 505 Turbo to have all parts - engine + gearbox, electrics, fuel pump, rear disc brakes, etc... But engine wasn't in perfect condition and I needed new pistons. The pistons are bimetalic, and I was searched them for 3 years. In France, in Germany, in USA... only Polytechnic have them but for cca 1000,- Eur per set. And when I want to overhaul the engine, I will do it perfectly, so it means new bearings, timing chain + wheels, renovation of Turbo, new camshaft with follovers, springs, clutch, etc. It means that complete renovation of the engine will cost me not less than 3000,-Eur. Next 2000,-Eur for special exhaust system, electric works, fueltank conversions, and many more. So at least I stopped my idea and I sold the P505 to my friend, who has lot of ordinary 505s.

Hello.

The flexible metal air hoses ,I get that from my work ( chem industry)
and it works fine .
 And it is not a bypass valve ,but a blow off valve.
Than you are faster with acceleration, like rally cars.

And I use the original oil pomp from the 505 engine, the most turbo conversions are using the oil
pomp from a normal 2,2 engine, because his sucksion pipe is longer.
But I want to use the original oilpomp from the turbo engine,Peugeot did some modifications on
the oil system. ( bigger oilcanals ,bigger oilfilter etc.. )
 
The boost level I use ,at this moment 0,45 bar, because my exhaust pipe is too small( 50mm), I have to change that in the future for a bigger exhaust system. (60 or 65 mm)

Eric