MatraSport Forum

Hi to you all,

Nice forum with lots of info, I have to say.
I'm looking for another sports car, and I am extremely tempted by the Murena.

However, will I fit into the cockpit without scraping my hair off, and looking at the windscreenframe?
Not that I am that tall, 1.90 meters, but it happened to me in various sports cars (for example, the MGF)

So, to all of you who are around 1.90 meteres, do you fit comfortably?

Thanks, Kai

Im 187cm and i find the driving position rather akward.
My hair is against the roof and 1'st gear is "under my right kneecap".
That said, the roof in my car is "hanging" a bit down, and im sure it can be fixed to my satisfaction.
The gear leaver can be adjusted go make a bit more room for my legs, but im not sure it will be quite enough that i dont need to move the gear leaver assembly itself some 5-10 cm to the right.

I know for sure that Lennart is quite a bit taller then me, and that he has no problems fitting in his murena.
I think he has placed som spacers under the front of his seat to tilt it slightly backwards.

Finally, the '83 and 84 model murenas should have slightly better driver Accomodations then the earlier cars, mainly doe to a lower seat.

I find that I fit very well in a Murena, I'm about 185 tall.

Footwear makes a difference for me as I have found that I prefer driving in a pair of old trekking shoes I have as they have low sole and are small on the foot - I haven't tried using real racing shoes, but I suspect that will be even better. As Krede's Murena, mine is also origianlly a Belgian with the gear lever on the left side of the choke and where it can occasionally feel like it sits under my knee. It doesn't, and while I haven't actually seen Krede in his car, I doubt if it really does on him too ;)

Inclination on the seat back makes a difference for me - but even with it comfortably inclined where my head fits well under the roof (and the lining on mine is well attached all over), I don't feel my arms stretched at all. I am also very comfortable and feel I can do long jurneys (but I haven't yet tried it). One thing I would like it to have was a higher headrest, but that is not a comfort issue, only safety.

But fit is always a personal issue - my wife will never fit my Murena for example. She has her own Matra, though ;)

- Anders 8)

At 1.95m I'm probably on the extreme end of Murena fitment.

I need to adjust 80-82 seats by raising the front on the locknuts and lowering the back, preferably by shortening the brackets. But 83 cars have better seats and are fine by me.

But I do have a problem with Belgian gear levers - why oh why are they like that?

What makes a Murena different from most sports cars is the lateral space. There is a room for the driver to alter position a little. I used to do a particular 700km day trip in my father's Corvette.  Super cruiser on UK motorways but you are squashed into a very tight space next to the tranmission tunnel.

I'm 6'2", not sure what it is in metric, about 2m I think. I just about fit. My headlining is drooping and I've had to stick a drawing pin above my head to make a kind of tent!

Once installed I am very comfortable though.

Today I went shopping with my 2 boys, bought a weeks worth of shopping and a new microwave oven that all went in the boot. Try that in a modern day MR2!!

When I came back to the car in the car park, there was a little crowd forming around it.

No, your'e only 1.90m Macaroni!

Somebody do a photoshoot session how do you fit in the car,
this will cover all questions ;)

Excellent idea, let me start with this:

And I too, shall take up the challenge ...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/krede/murena007.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/krede/murena004.jpg)

Note the above avarage sized beer belly... thus the tight fit in the seat  :D
But still the Murena manage to put a big grin on my face..  ;D
Pics taken this august when I brought the car home from the uk

Thanks a lot guys!

So i do fit in (no beer belly). Good to know. 
Well, then it's up now to deciding wether to keep the old car or buy a Murena. Tough choice!   :-\ :-\ :-\

BTW: what is a Belgian gear lever? ???

Adios, Kai

I am 194 cm and fits fine ... My car is a 1983, with the lower seat mounting.

Will Falconer gave me the good idea of lifting the front of the seat slightly, which makes your legs rest comfortably, even if they are a bit more bent than on those sub-190 midgets :-)

I have the seat reclined a bit more than most people, which actually gives me a relaxed position and a whole hands-width of space above my head.

I had the sunroof removed, and new roof lining fitted, which combined possibly gave me a extra centimeter or more. Everything counts :)

The only thing I'd really love was if I could add another headrest on top of the old one, to give me that extra bit of comfort and safety - as it is now, I think it will do, but having some support 10cm further up would definitely help.

I suffer from a poorly back, but in fact the Murena is the best of my cars to be in (Espace JE, Peugeot 106 are the others)


Photoshoot of how to fit .. reminded me of this series I took of a race-prepared DJet, and another 194cm driver :-)
http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/DJet/Gallery1/Erik.Jensby/Med/dsc_2262-64h.html
now THAT is a tight fit ! :-)

/Lennart

No one has ever come up with a reason for it that I'm aware of, but Murenas built for the Belgian market had the gearlever and choke positions swapped over bringing the the gearlver closer to the driver, or in my case bringing the gearlever under my right knee.

I'm sure it has something to do with those great Belgian beers or moules frites. :-\

Any Belgians out there who know the real reason

the new roof lining you have fittet, is that the "hard" type like on murenas an newer cars, or is it he "himmel" soft type like older cars (mantas, taunus etc) ?

If someone can find a pro who can build an extension on the drivers seat back in a way so it will still look like a "Murena seat", I'd like to know! 5 cm would make splendid difference.


The expression "putting the car on" makes excellent meaning for this guy!! :D

erhm, doh !
tough question - not sure. Its fluffy, but with a hard -ish substance.
Its a genuine Murena headlining which MatraMagic fitted, when I got the new roof (without the leaky, unoriginal sunroof)

Will - do you know the answer to this ?


Btw - I have heard that thing about the Belgian cars having the gearlever swapped to be closer to the driver before, - but as far as I have been told, my car was originally Belgian, but it has the choke on the driverside. 
Either it doesn't cover *all* Belgian cars, ot my car wasn't really Belgian, but jst "export"  (with the glass-inserts in the extra headlight covers) ?

/Lennart

Then my car is DEFENATLY of Belgian origin (I suspected it to be when i bought it.. mostly because of that wired waffel smell in the cabin.. but now I am certain  ;) !!

I always thought it was the position of the choke( either right or left of the leaver) that was the difference?

urmm yes - and according to the story, it is.

chicken and hen - wether you regard it as the choke or gearlever that swaps places with the other, the result is the same. :-)

But I may misunderstand you ?

However, as I wrote, my car is said to be Belgian, but has the choke on the left (and the gearlever to the right, I might add :-) )

/Lennart

Hmmm... Rupert did say something about my car being a german model.. due to the glass covers of the extra front lights.... but how does one explain the waffel smell then??  ;D

Burning wires!!! ;D

No really.... I thought my Murena smelled of petrol inside when running.... I didn't understand as engine room was not smelly... but it was just the insulation on the ignition lock wires that was melting due to a bad contact (see Lennarts thread on fan switch which I hijacked)

The glass inserts are often mentioned as "export" version - and possibly all the factorybuilt 'S' models had them too ?

Some countries legislation may have required lightcovers to be glass, and this may have prompted Matra to put glass-inserts on all export models. Would make sense.

I cannot imagine why some countries should have the gearlever and choke swapped, while other didn't - it would e.g. make much more sense if it was a modification Matra made from a certain date and onwards - but as far as I konow, that was not the case.

It is however a fact the both types exist. 

/Lennart

I thought maybe it was because some Belgian regulations required a bit more leg space for the passengers?

Ils sont foux, - but I wouldn't think they were THAT foux ?   :-)

/Lennart

I had two cars resprayed by Carjoy in the Netherlands about 15 years ago.

I sold the Colombian Blue 2.2, bought it back some years later and resold it again, but even when I last saw it 3 years ago it still had the Dutch cheese smell it gained when it was resprayed...

Drove my murena to Aalborg and back today...50km..in hard rain... Rupert (the previous owner)  was right when he called it a "more-rain-a".. I have not driven it in Dk in anything but rain!!!..
Lucky for me the heat and blower motor are functioning flawlessly (and smokelessly  ;D )
However Steamy windows WAS the order of the day... especially the rear window tended to "fog up"... and the heater wire didnt seem up to the task.. though im sure it did the best it could.
Anyway...
It appear to me that my murena has a particular "bad" gear leaver position, and that much can be improved simply by ajusting the rods in the back.. I will see to this as soon as i can get the car on a lift.
Other then that, my (hard) headlining seem to arc slightly downwards right where my head is supposed to be.
If corrected I am sure even a '82 murena could comfortably accomidate even taller people then me with my 187cm.
Apart from the gearleaver (that HAS to be altered in my car) I find the driving position is quite fine!. I am sure the aftermarket "momo" steringwheel fittet to my murena has no small part in this, as it improves "thigh clearance" considerably, and the smaller diameter of the wheel is no problem due to the murenas light front end and responsive stearing.
The seats give better then expected back support, and are very nice and soft (though you get the feeling of sitting on the floor.... witch really isnt far from the truth anyway  ;D ).
 
  

As Brussels is the goverment seat for the European Community I wonder if it was an EC ruling that no one else took up; perhaps to make more room for your mother-in-law in the middle seat ::)

We have new EC legislation here that says any child under 12 years old and under 1.5m tall must use a booster seat. My 6 year old son (1.35m) threw away his booster 18 months ago and does not plan to start using one again. As our police have been replaced by cameras I'm not too bothered about compliance.

I've got the same problem. If the carpet in the boot is just a bit wet however, when the engine starts heating, it becomes steam that fogs the rear window. Since there's no ventilation back there, there's very little the heater can do. I have a water leak which I have *not* yet fixed, but after I replaced the carpet in the boot with a rubber mat, it has improved a lot. There's still water there, but a water pit apparantly generates less steam than a damp or wet carpet (which probably has something to do with surface area of the water).


I don't think you should need a lift. If you remove the airbox it's easily accessible from above.


Obviously you are still going slow around the corners. You will begin to feel the resistance when you start going faster.

But yes, it's very light and responsive! Very nice. This reminds me about an article at MulsannesCorner about the Allard J2X prototype racer. It generated 5500 lbs of downforce at 150 mph - WITHOUT power steering. It must have required enormous overarms to run a race. Obviously designed for small winding circuits, but just imagine taking a stint around Le Mans in that...??


Yes they are really good and gives a good amount of support without being difficult to get out of at all.

Not like this:
(http://www.bilmagasinet.dk/images/biltest/500px/475419.jpg)
(thanks to Bilmagasinet! - strange picture by the way with the contrasting old Skoda in the background!)


- Anders

http://www.matraforum.de/thread.php?threadid=2467&boardid=2&styleid=1&sid=60ff1a3a1e7e4c076843589782c46e11&sid=60ff1a3a1e7e4c076843589782c46e11
Same theme)

Riiiiight...
In the name of science my uncle and I did a little experiment....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/krede/Uncle1.jpg)

A tight fit.. and not the seat for the trip to southern France... but short trips ... well....he mesure 2m 9cm... witch is a bit extreme in any case.... but please note that leg room ISN'T a problem!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/krede/uncle2.jpg)

Actually it was only the lack of headroom that prevented a perfect fit...

A little off track but as i am the happy driver that Lennart took photos of when trying to get out of the Djet i will comment too.

What do you complain about ?  ;)

You do not have a to wear a helmet and at the same time negotiate a full safety cage when entering and leaving the car. When inside the car my head is tilted sideways as the helmet is in constact contact with both roof (no headlining luxury) and the rollcage.
There is no headrest at all as a proper raceseat would mean even less space so i still have the original seat installed.
I also had to move the central part of the instrument panel to give space for my right knee and the space between the pedals, or lack of it, means that proper race shoes are the only footwear to use if you do not want to hit 2 pedals at a time.

So, if you have trouble fitting into a Murena - Dont buy a Djet  ;D

Best regards
Erik
Ps. my other car is a Fiat 500 :o

heh, yes - and I might add that Erik is about the same height as me - which is 194cm (6'4" and a bit)

But I doubt Erik would take the Djet for his commute to work.

/Lennart

I know this is an old posting but not one I've noticed before, but I have just been directed to it, by another tall person who was trying to find out if he would fit in a Murena.

First, the answer to why the Belgian cars had the gear lever closer to the driver and on the left with the choke on the right, which is the opposite to most of the cars produced, is owing to a certain regulation in Belgian law which gives a set max. dimension for the position of the gear lever from the left side - the inside of the left hand door I believe, although I haven't read this rule myself so I have not seen the actual wording.  Therefore the real answer is that it was done to comply with Belgian law.  There are other differences on various Murena too, to comply with German laws for instance, so there are different alloy wheels, different front lenses over the lower lights, extra protection for the fuel tank, and different wiring with additional fuses for rear lights, to meet the laws of the country a car was destined for.  You need to be aware of these when buying a car in one country but then taking it to a different country as it may not comply.

As for the problem of whether a very tall driver can fit comfortably and safely drive a Murena, this will also depend on the actual person and whether they have long legs and a short torso, or short legs and a long torso, or a more equal balance of dimensions.  For someone with shorter leg length the seat can be a little closer to the pedals and that allows you to recline the seat a little as it is not up against the rear bulkhead between the cabin and engine.  That slight recline allows you to have a little more room to the roof to hopefully accommodate the longer torso.

If you have long legs necessitating the seat to be further back then the seat may be at the back of the fore and aft adjustment, and almost against the bulkhead, which means you cannot recline the seat back and you have to sit more upright.  This might then cause the torso to be too high and the head clashes with the roof or you have to tilt your head down, and that then causes problems especially on a longer drive, as the neck will suffer and you are having to look upwards, relatively, to see forward, as you are all the time having to compensate for the head being angled down.

So with two tall people of the same height, one may find they can fit and the other cannot.

Also with regard to the seat mountings, since the front of the seat has little clearance over the cross member just below it, you cannot lower the front of the seat.  The rear of the seat might be able to be lowered by modifying the rear of the seat frame/mounting but all that will do is angle the seat squab back which might give a little more space, depending on the particular tall person and just where his or her extra length is, legs or torso.

I have both an '82 (Belgian) car, which I've had from new, and an '83 (normal or French) car and have not noticed any difference in the seats between the two but next opportunity I get, I will take a look to see if there are any differences.*

Please note that when the positions of the gear lever and choke are reversed, the floor carpets also need to be slightly different to fit correctly.  In a Belgian car, the drivers over-mat has to be slightly narrower and the double size passenger over mat can be wider to fit the spaces between the outer sill edge and the central oddments box sides.  I found this right at the start with my new (Belgian) car as the first set of mats supplied were for a normal or French spec. Murena and they did not fit my car, in particular the drivers mat was too wide to fit.  Once I bought the ones designed to fit a Belgian spec car, they were fine.

One final point, I notice that 'Krede' says he was a tight fit when he collected his car from the U.K. but that photo also shows the car had a non-standard smaller steering wheel, and that could have made a difference too, as I would suggest that with a standard wheel his bent legs may not have been able to fit as they do with that smaller wheel, which they are still touching. (my legs are almost straight and fit comfortably under the standard steering wheel which also has a flat at the bottom to ease getting in or out)  He also suggests that the last cars have a lower mounting, but I don't see how as the limiting factor is the cross-member which the front of the seat only just clears.

* Update: I have now checked my two cars and the drivers seat is the same height above the cross member in both and in the position I have my seat, you cannot get your hand between the cross member and the seat, it is that close.  So unless they actually lowered that cross member, there was no alteration between '82 and '83 cars.

Roy

The 1983 and 1984 cars had a seat that was lowered 15mm in order to remedy the height problem a little.

Please tell me where you get this information from because I own a 1982 and a 1983 car (and I have a 1981 car that I strip for spares) and the seats are all the same height!  Also as I have pointed out, there is not enough space between the driver seat and the cross member to lower it, and if it had been lowered at all, then why is the gap between the seat and the cross member of my cars, exactly the same?  If you lowered the seat even a tiny amount, it would be fouling on the cross member.  So I'm sorry but I don't believe this 15mm lowering - but if you have some drawings or proof, I will take another look and examine mine again.

There were no cars made in 1984 although the 'S' models made in 1983 had chassis plates with a 1984 'EX' code.

Roy

Head room is tight for me in my 1983 Murena with its original cloth covered seats. I'm 6 ft 2 inches and my hair just brushes the roof lining. It's not a big problem, just slightly irritating at times. Maybe a thinner less "fluffy" roof lining would help, or I could shave my head!

I've wondered if a slightly thinner more dense padding in the centre section of the seat base would gain an extra couple of centimeters, has anyone ever tried it?

Simple, it comes out of the original service documentation made by Matra and supplied by Talbot. This bulletin explained the lowering of the seat and how to raise it again if the customer required so.

1984 is mentioned by matra as the model year for series E, so I always adhere to the official terms when it comes to model years.

See attached screenshot explaining the modification.

I have a Murena 1881 German model. The previous owner has lowered thedrivers  seat approx. 1.5 cm by cutting the brackets and welding them together in a shorter version.

regards Hans

Thank you for the copy of that service information sheet.  It appears we never got these service information bulletins in the U.K. so the only one I have up to now, is the modification for moving the fuel tank vent valve to the top of the tank as they did for the 'S' models.  I have changed mine and it is much better there.

Were there many of these service update bulletins issued and do you have copies or can you say where I could obtain them myself?  Thank you for any help with this.

As for the driver's seat modification, the bulletin states 'After Sales' modification rather than a factory modification, and if it had been a factory modification, there should be a fabrication number noting the point at which it changed, as they did with other design change points.

I have spent some time today trying to measure mine as accurately as possible, but it is difficult with the seats still bolted in the cars, yet the '82 and '83 cars still appear to be the same.  So I believe that it was not a factory modification, but a modification by the dealer if requested.  Knowing a little of how Matra were not always accurate in some of the things they did, such as fitting early gearboxes to late cars and vice versa, and none of the 2.2 gearboxes having numbers stamped on them, so you can't tell untill you open them up; it could even be that the seat base was an '82 base which they still had left over when they started '83 car builds, but covered in the '83 material.

Anyway, whatever the reason, thank you again for the information and drawing.  You can see why the front mountings were only reduced 10mm as that is all that can be done to avoid the cross member.  They could do a little more at the rear as that does not come close to the cross member, but I have to say that a 15mm drop is so small that it only allows a person about 1/2" taller really.

One question: if the seat mountings are shorter, then how do they suggest the seat can be returned to it's original height if required, as that cannot be seen in the copy you have scanned?  Was it just inserting spacers of the required height?

Roy

The bulletin states that is is a factory modification starting at model year 1983, the next page, that I did not copy, states that the new seat bases are used after the old ones are depleted and the reference number stays the same.

If I measure the base on the - S - I have and a 2.2 from 1982 I clearly see the difference.

Thank you for the added information.  I think that explains why mine are the same - as it says 'after the old ones are depleted'.

roy

Does the bulletin say that the seat brackets have to be cut and welded or is it just a case of removing washers / spacers?

I would quite like to lower the rear mounting points by 15mm if it's not too complicated.

Having checked mine closely to see if they were the same or different, I can tell you they had no spacers fitted that could be removed, to lower the seat, so the original ones Matra fitted that were lower were new lower height brackets.  Therefore to modify an earlier car you would have to remove the seat, then cut, modify and re-welded them to drop the height.  Now I have had experience with welded seat frames where even professional factory seats have failed simply with normal use, by the forces set up when applying the brakes, (the pressure on the pedal creates an equal force back on the seat) so if you cut and weld seat frames you need to make sure the welding is first class.

Roy

I think for me this needs to be something which is tackled if I ever need the seats reupholstering. The lack of headroom isn't severe enough to warrant disturbing the original seat and upholstery. It's good to know that there was an official factory bulletin for the modification though.