MatraSport Forum

How is it with distributors for 2,2 Murena? I know that 2,2 S has different distributor than 2,2 but on my 2,2 S there is Ducellier and maybe it's not right, because I think that there have to be Bosch, or is it possible, that they mounted both of them? Can I find somewhere the right OE number for 2,2S distributor and which OE is for distributor for normal 2,2?

To the best of my knowledge there is NO difference what so ever, apart from parts numbers etc etc...

I cant remember who told me that... Roy I guess. ;D

The standard 2.2 had a Bosch distributor, whilst the genuine 2.2S had the same distributor as fitted to the Tagora made at that time - i.e. a Ducellier.  The publicity stated the 2.2S had a distributor with modified timing characteristics (implying it was to suit the extra power) and I say that is BS.  They simply standardised on the same unit in both Tagora and Murena.  It had different characteristics simply because one was made by Bosch and one by Ducellier!  The Prep 142 used the standard Bosch distributor and both it and any Holbay cam modified 2.2 run absolutely fine on it.  Even engines I've seen producing up to 150 bhp run fine on the Standard Bosch unit.

So if you have a Tagora engine fitted (as many Murena now have, after damaging the original engine) they will probably have the Ducellier unit similar to the genuine 2.2 S model, as it has come from a Tagora.  Or maybe the Bosch was worn and instead of repairing it someone picked up a second hand Tagora unit which was the Ducellier not Bosch.

So OE distributor on a standard 2.2 Murena was a Bosch
and OE distibutor on a genuine 2.2S Murena was a Ducellier
See the parts list for confirmation!


Update:  I know the Ducellier fitted in the Tagora and Murena had slightly different vacuum and mechanical advance specifications but then you would expect that for a heavy saloon car and a light sports car respectively.  And the vacuum and mechanical advance specifications are also different if you compare the Bosch and Ducellier fitted to the Murena and 'S'.  But overall the differences are negligible if you add the two advance curves together.  And in practice this also shows in that the car drives fine with either too.

It should be noted that sometimes one or both of the advance springs should be loose when fitted and the advance weights are at their resting position.  This is so it will take some additional revs before they start to increase the timing advance.  Also you would expect the idle and pick up on a saloon car to be different to a lighter sports car as it is aimed at giving a smoother drive for a saloon car driver with probably a family on-board.  A sports car is more about power and performance, thus the specification is tuned more for that.

Roy

distributor murena 2.2S : ducellier 525405A   C3
distributor murena 2.2 : Bosch 0237002069
distributor Tagora 2.2 : ducellier 525281A

Thank you! I'll check it on friday when I'll be preparing my Murena for saturday - Matra Meeting in Sinsheim - Germany.

Following on with this topic........ from Burton Power Products Tips:

Most highly modified high revving engines will require a different advance curve to the standard distributor to achieve peak power. The usual requirement is for more ignition advance at low engine speeds and slightly less total advance which would typically occur between 2,500 - 3,000 rpm. DIY alterations to standard distributors can be quite successful but also time consuming - you rarely get it right first time. Also, if it is badly worn it should be replaced, in which case you might as well buy one already modified for you!

With this in mind and in my quest for more power from my modified Matra Murena 2.2, I sent a distributor from a Tagora 2.2 ( Ducellier 525281A) to H&H Ignition Solutions,  for refurbishment and modification of the advance curve and to have the vacuum advance blanked off. NB: Talbot Tagora is listed in their "OE Distributors (select)" drop down menu.

http://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/

The distributor was duly returned looking very nice too, at a total and reasonable cost of £105:00.

Before and after power runs were then carried out on my local rolling road and absolutely no gains were made in power!
The standard Murena distributor (Bosch 0237002069) was duly refitted and that project was cancelled.  :'(

Conclusion:
From Roy's statement above " Even engines I've seen producing up to 150 bhp run fine on the Standard Bosch unit" is absolutely correct. Except it can now be amended to "up to around 160 bhp" which was seen using this distributor, whilst carrying out some exhaust power run experiments afterwards.

It's nice to see it proven by this tests.
One thing I am looking for are the governor springs that are in the distributor.
They are rusted and tired, and therefore no longer provide the right tension on the balance weights.
Anyone know where to get the right springs.
I replaced them in my 26 years old Honda, and had a hell of a time to get the tension about right.

Try this link as they have plenty of spares even if their advance modifications aren't too hot.

http://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/enquiry.htm

I'm gonna fill in the form to see what they come up with.
Thanks for the link.

Just for science........ ;)
 
Tagora and Murena distributor compared.

This is the Tagora distributor (Ducelier).
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jWEq3nF0lt8/T3LNQ2Tyi-I/AAAAAAAADBA/GSR6HipOnt4/s800/P1020613.JPG)

The govenor springs from the Tagora distributor.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rdP03HHw10U/T3LNRMvQXqI/AAAAAAAADA8/xfGmi9OKddA/s800/P1020614.JPG)

The centr. weights from the Tagora distributor.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TF4iZZe4NCY/T3LNSIzovkI/AAAAAAAADBU/VptT4J4b7tI/s800/P1020616.JPG)

Bit more tension on the springs because they were a bit loose.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QQ6NsK1BXwc/T3LNYdoPGII/AAAAAAAADCI/lXSZivdPPEk/s800/P1020626.JPG)

Rebuild.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-X4tF4TiBnkU/T3LNZ7PIX6I/AAAAAAAADCc/fGxFrnAllxI/s800/P1020650.JPG)

Murena 2.2 distributor (Bosch), it is totaly different.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LoHr6ECMmEI/T3LNdTwkh4I/AAAAAAAADDE/00OVv7iWrBw/s800/P1020659.JPG)

The springs (shorter and thicker)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I5Gvne2eubc/T3LNbxTF0II/AAAAAAAADCs/tnqFJbHtbqo/s800/P1020654.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xKrOv34YVnM/T3LNckhPqAI/AAAAAAAADC8/vNjp1JZR1vE/s800/P1020658.JPG)

The weights.( a few grams more)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-c7VLRNubvhE/T3LNbCqtQRI/AAAAAAAADCg/06yq_BYjZGk/s800/P1020656.JPG)

I am not totaly convinced that they are the same.
My car drives different with the 2.
With the Tagora distributor there is some power missing, but the car has a better idle and picks up better in low rpm high gear.

Ofcourse  these are older pieces, and this is not a perfect test, but I am pretty sure there are differences.

Oetker, that was very interesting science and also your experience when comparing the two types of distributors. They are obviously different and the Bosch one is more suited to the Murena. I will stick to Bosch in future for sure.

GP