MatraSport Forum

What are the common failures and/or what is worth replacing preventive?

Rear trailing arms!!  :o

Fuse panel printed circuit board connectors. I did the remaining ones on my car recently and the I found that the Rover ones recommended by Roy are getting difficult to obtain.  In the end I got some from a Mini specialist (they are used to connect the ECU on Minis from 1989 onwards) and they said that there would be no more once the existing stocks were gone.  I have searched the catalogues of the major connector manufacturers (AMP etc) to no avail.  I think a lot of Murena owners would be very grateful to anybody who can recommend an alternative.

The fiber inserts in the front suspension arms where the anti roll bar is attached.
And of cause rust proofing.

What about the clutch master cilinder seals and / or break seals?

Yes, mine has failed, clutch master. It was leaking into the drivers footwell. This done check the slave at the rear. On mine this was also leaking so changed.

It seems that once one part is changed then another fails. So incase the break cylinder was to follow the clutch and fail it was replaced.

And for any 1.6 owners, check your engine mount brackets. One of mine failed whilst on the go. Very scary. The engine drops onto the gear linkages throwing the gear stick violently to the right and leaving you no control over the engine or transmision.

I also think it's worth reiterating Roy's advice to check the bolts holding the bracket to the gearbox for tightness as it is movement that causes the bracket to fail.

This is an excellent thread! I'll make it 'sticky' so it stays on top of the Murena-subject.

My contribution will be that it's always a good idea to replace distributor cap and rotor before doing any fuelling or ignition maintenance or adjustments. Plugs and leads can be checked and kept if okay, but unless you are on a tight budget, why not replace them with new? The coil should be wiped dry on the top. These are cheap components that can make a significant difference!

Second, get a new set of gaskets for the carburettor and give it a good cleaning with compressed air, WD40, and petrol. A well maintained carburettor don't go wrong, but if any of the fuel and air channels are blocked, it will never perform. On the 2.2, the Solex 34CICF has an O-ring to seal the acceleration pump fuel channel. This O-ring is often incorrectly sized in the gasket kits, and if it's not the right size, fuel will leak out. This can cause running problems!

- Anders

Forgot...: Water pump. A leaking pump can't keep water pressure up, so while there may still be a good flow of water through the engine, the water will boil, and boiling water can't absorb heat => Engine will suffer!

I agree with Mr.Diensen..
Ignition parts are "wear" parts just like break pads etc... even the coil should be replaced once in a while.

How about Mazda engine-parts? ;)

Don't understand ???

Don't think mazda engine will qualify as a preventive replacement :D

rubbersealing for the doors  >:( :'(

While we're at the rubber...:

Water hoses, and the pipes under the car and in the engine room :o
Tyres ;)

And since Oskar mentioned the doors: Electric window motors and window mechanisms...

Lots of things are coming to my mind.
Anything that wil wear has to be on stock
This is for the 2.2
All engineseals, waterpump, valveseals, rubbers for the enginemounting,radiator,waterhoses, frontscreen, clutchplate complete, lining roof/window, steering all components.
There is a lot more I can think of, but it may be better to find a spare car and rip it to parts.

I have stocked up on ball joints and track rod ends while they are still cheap and easy to get.

I also have replacement bearings but that is for two reasons:
1. I need to rebuild the rear trailing arms so might as well do the bearings at the same time
2. Everytime you need new discs you need to split the bearings and the seals are never as good once the bearings have been split.

A nice mod would be a hub that you could fit discs on without splitting the bearing (especially if it ment a"standard" disc could be used at the back!!) but I don't suppose that would be realistic........ :(

And remember to give the bolts a good coating of anti-seize grease when you reassemble! :(

The spring platforms on the rear shocks rust through causing the suspension to collapse.  If this happens while driving it could be catastrophic.  My right rear collapsed while parked and I think at least 2 others on the forum have had near failures at least.  As the cars get older this should definitely be an item which is checked regularly.

And another. Reverse light switch. Got mine out of the gearbox whilst the engine was dropped through engine mount bracket failer. Getting the new one in with the engine in place was more trickey however. Anybody else?

While on the subject of engine mounts, I decided to check mine before setting off to the Wobbly Wheel next weekend.  I found that mine had had additional bracing struts welded on to the side.  Clearly a previous owner has had problems!  My spare gearbox has what I take to be the standard mount, but the bolts fixing it to the gearbox were secured with locking tabs.   Two different solutions to the same problem?

I'm afraid we're gonna need pictures mate  ;)

I'll be very interested to see that at the Wobbly this weekend coming Peter.
Here is my engine mount bracket welded back together on the bench.

Interesting.  Did it break round the holes facing the the camera?  If it did then I may have misunderstood the problem because that's not where mine is braced.  Sorry Krede, no pictures, I can only just see the one on the car, let alone point a camera at it.

Yep, right across the top as you suggest.

No-one so far has mentioned cables.  The most obvious one is the tailgate glass release cable which sometimes breaks and leaves you unable to get at the boot or engine.  If you haven't replaced it in a long time (many years) it will be prudent to at least check it if not replace it now.  It usually breaks just behind the handle where it is continually flexed.  All you need is a length of bowden cable around 8 foot (96") or 2.44m long.  The other cables that are worth checking/replacing are the throttle cable, choke cable and bonnet interlock.  This last one is one many forget and is often not working as it has been broken for some time.  The problem is that the bonnet will foul the head lamp pods if they are up and you try to raise the bonnet.  So if the head lamps are up, the bonnet release should be blocked.  This reminds you to lower the headlamps first.  I also once came across a car where the headlamps were down, but the bonnet release would not work, and it was blocked because the cable broke in the blocked position!  All that was needed to open the bonnet was to move the blocking lever back to allow the bonnet release to work.  This can often be done simply by pulling on the outer cable just under the front.

The throttle cable (certainly on the 2.2) is about the same length as the tail gate release cable, so I usually carry a length of bowden cable in the car which will serve as a replacement for either if one or the other breaks whilst away from home.  Carry a small carb. trunion to attach the plain cable end to the carb. and you don't need the special cable with the nipple.

Roy

Very good point - I have had failures with them all, except for the boot release (so that's probably next :-) )

My heating bowden cable failed however because my radio installation came somewhat apart, and grounded itself via the cable ... which then got sufficiently hot to melt the nylon casing ... and fill the cabin with smoke (!), so it cannot really be attributed as a common failure for the car. But the others, - yes definitely.

My boot release has once got entangled in things I had in the boot, resulting in it being pulled halfway out of the right hatch release ... and this made it impossible to open the hatch.  Luckily, by spending about an hour trying, I managed to push it back in, using a piece of steel thread through the hole in the left rear light bay.

/Lennart

I am a newbie to the forum, but have from time to time helped out Philbert restore his Murena. One thing I have noticed is that some folks have problems with the passenger side electric window. Before you go buy a new motor and switch, check the switch in the driver side. The power is routed from this switch to the passenger side. It took an hour or more of troubleshooting and dis/mounting the motor assembly, before I found that the wire had come off on the driver's side.  :'(

Thats oh so true Weywadt.. AT LEAST me and Mr Dinsen have had that problem.

Check your fuel pump!
The brass pipes sometimes pop out of the pump, causing fuel spills over your hot engine!

Been there done that... with a very hot engine as the result  :-\

but is it a typical Matra fault ? - I would expect this problem to be more general for old fuelpumps.
/Lennart

Perhaps that is why, on my 2.2, it has been replaced by an electric fuel pump.

Could very well be.... and engine room fires are a not just "urban legend" on these cars... going through the "service log" that came with my car, I could see that my car had suffered on some time back, and had a pretty extensive list of repairs as a consequence.

In my opinion an electric fuel pump should be fitted to all Murenas. 

As every Murena owner knows, the original mirrors on the Murena are a problem, due to the difficulty in obtaining replacement gears at a reasonable cost.

I don't know where I read it, but someone suggested fixing the mirror with a set screw, rather than using the gears. So I drilled a 2,6 mm hole in the top of the gear housing where the mirrot pivots and cut a 3mm thread. With abench grinde I put a sharp point on a 3 mm screw and inserted in the hole.

Adjusting the mirror requires the help of someone outside the car, while you look at the mirror from your normal driving position. I did that with the help of my friend Jan, who tightened the screw while I sat in the car. The result is quite satisfactory and since I am the only one using the car I do not need to be able to adjust it. The adjustment that swings the mirror in/out needs to be working of course, but the up/down is what is fixed in place.

This juryrigging will be replaced once we make new gears, but in the meantime I can live with it.  ;D

dont forget the leaking fuelfilling cap. cant fill it over ½ without leaking badly  :-[

That's actually a very good point.  I have replaced the fuelcap twice to try to eliviate the leaking which has caused bad staining of my cars paint...

One thing is leaking while filling up, which while annoying, can be dealt with at the time, but a bit of enthusiastic driving often results in fuel all over my left rear wing :-(

I would love somebody to come up with a smart solution. I have thought of a elastic "stocking" that would allow for filling up, but would avoid spilling while turning enthusiasticly.

/Lennart

I dont tend to put more than half in for this reason, when I first got my car I filled it up, it was a nice hot day and by the time I got home it was steadly pouring on to the street, i think I filled three pint glaases before it stopped.. I understand its partly an expansion thing but could it be to do with the pressure build too, Ive replaced the tubing for the overflow and if i'm not mistaken is there a filter that screws on to the pipping which goes from the filler neck to the tank, could it be that these arn't working on our cars and not allowing pressure to escape quick enough/at all? Just a thought..

Ha ha.. I looked through the poll... and then my car service history.
Apart from the 1.6 stuff (mine is a 2.2),, and the cables for the heater etc, my car has, at some point suffered ALL! the fault mentioned above!!... and a good few more to boot.. including an engine bay fire, a cracked cylinder head and a worn out gearbox (the last one X2 I fear)

In the spirit of how this poll is intended I would emphasize the ones that would seriously make me reconsider buying a certain car :

1) Crash damage/dodgy body repair. (A smashed front wing is no problem at all, but I have yet to find anybody who can "straighten a Murena chassis)

2) A cracked cylinder head. (can be fixed, but new ones are expensive)

3) Rear suspension arms (Nahhh.. I'd buy one with rotten traling arms, as long as the price of the car was adjusted accordingly...but its one thing you HAVE! to check before you buy.)

The rest of the "common" faults are annoying, but fixable.


Ps: Before the car is taken into service Id assure myself that EVERY coolant pipe and hose is in top condition! If Loss of coolant occur , I refer you to point (2)

 

I too have this problem and I thought it was just me. Does anyone have any experience of the replacement fuel caps advertised on ebay?

Or is the problem not just cap related, as outlined below?

I recall reading somewhere that  a fuel cap from a Citroen AX should fit the Murena... worth a try?

can anyone try to fit a modern filter that creates vaccum in the tank via intakemanifold?
that should prevent it to some extend.

heat isolation?

smaller filler hose to the tank, atleast at the end.

or a plastic hat at the end that closes when preassure comes from underneath

As to replacement fuel caps on ebay... We need NON-VENTED ones. These part numbers end in 2 (with vented ones ending in 1). I bought mine some time ago from a seller called doctor car. This ebay link number may take you to the same cap although my original part ref has since changed, 390105733457.

It does not leak any fuel although I would be grateful for an explanation as to how it works. I can fill the tank to the brim (no leaks whilst driving) but on refueling when empty the filler cap is removed to hear a loud hiss of air intake, meaning that a vaccuum has occured in the tank. This is clearly normal as it does not effect the running of the engine. My question is... how does this vaccuum not prevent the carb being starved of fuel?

Thanks.

Writing things down sometimes makes things clearer. Of course, the vaccuum is pushing down on the remaining body of fuel and not sucking it as I had thought because of the air intake whilst removing the filler cap.

 

Youré right Titus, non vented.
There was also a modification for spilling fuel when you top up the tank. and air is trapped in the top.
You need to put in a modification kit, but if you are handy you can think of something.
Loads of other car have them fitted.
Remeber it is a 2 way valve.
Only in german.
(http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/968/benzin1tt4.jpg)
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No, you were right the first time Titus.  As the fuel is consumed, it should be replaced by air.  The intake of air you hear is an indication that this is not happening, and the vacuum created is trying to stop the fuel pump drawing fuel, although the pump is strong enough to overcome it.  My parts list shows a two-way valve in the filler neck near the top connected to a breather tube.  It sounds as if yours is blocked.

All cars that I have dealt with (at least later models) develop a vacuum in the tank as the fuel is consumed. Letting air into the tank creates a real risk of, at some point, reaching an explosive air-fuel vapor concentration. This can not be a good thing.  ::) At any rate, the fuel pump should be able to easily overcome the vacuum and provide fuel to the carb(s).

What I find most annoying is that the nearly horizontal hose, from the filler cap to the tank, results in fuel sloshing out before the automatic cut-off of the pump can activate. On most other cars the steeper angle allows fuel to trigger the pump cut-off mechanism before it reaches the brim.

On my car there is no Vaccuum of air as the filler is removed ... On my new Fiesta there is a massive release when taking the cap off..

Indeed, I have to be very careful and even then the automatic cut-off is often too late.

Hello everyone,

After two years of hesitation I have bought a Murena 2.2.
Thanks for this great forum. It will be very useful for me. But I think I will have a lot of questions in the future because I have a lot to do on the car... I hope it goes back to the road at the end of this year.  ;)

Welcome to the Forum and congratulations with your new Murena 2.2.
You will probably find that one of us has already faced, and solved, whatever problem you encounter.  ;D

Kind regards.
Jon

 ;D ;D ;D

I just learned that Murena 2.2 shares oil filter with a Citroen 2CV !

What do you think of that ? :o

Yes, and I use it for several years in my 1.6 and 2.2
It's a bit smaller then the original but works without problems.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sO8Cbbfh4H4/VZ8-zZxTQVI/AAAAAAAAGfM/iKDehx4-6pg/s744-Ic42/Oilfilter.jpg)

Over time the center pin in the distributor cap wears down to the point where the pin does not, or barely, touches the rotor. When that happens your car will be difficult to start as the spark will have to not only jump the spark plug and the rotor points, but also from the center pin to the rotor.
So check your distributor cap once in a while and if in doubt change it. At only appx. 5€ it is a cheap fix to starting problems.

Yes, Peter is quite right, and as the fuel is consumed and the level drops, air should be drawn in to replace the fuel otherwise the resulting vacuum will oppose the fuel pump trying to pull the fuel from the tank.  This vacuum can be so strong that with the old metal tanks they would actually collapse inwards.  During my working life I have seen this a number of times and had to replace the tanks on a few cars.  In each case the car had been brought in with the statement that the fuel gauge was not reading correctly.  Yes the tank collapse had restricted the gauge sender from operating correctly!!

Fortunately the 'plastic' fuel tank fitted to the Murena is strong enough that it doesn't collapse inwards, but it is not good to have such a strong vacuum being created in the tank since this puts a greater strain on the fuel pump.  Since the fuel cap should be non-vented, to prevent fuel dribbling out though it and down the bodywork, there has to be another means for air to get in, and this was provided by the small hose connected to the filler pipe which needed a valve to prevent fuel spilling out when the tank was full.  So if you get a vacuum created in the tank then this valve must not be allowing air in and needs attention.


Regarding the list now at the top of this posting, the only real design/material flaws are the semi-trailing arms which corrode badly; and the fuses/circuit board and connectors, where the connector terminals crack reducing the positive contact to the board causing arcing which burns the contact surface.  Also relays should have been used between the radiator fan motor and switch, and the electric window motors and switches.

All the other items on the list are not really design faults but simply items that fail through natural wear and lack of adequate preventative maintenance.  So whilst it is useful to point these out to new owners they are not design faults.  Matra got most of the car correct mainly as it was a development of the Bagheera so had had a number of years prior testing and correction.

One item missed from the list is the necessary checking and periodic replacement of the engine stabiliser bushes on the 2.2 models.  If excess movement of the engine is allowed because of worn stabiliser bushes, then the exhaust will eventually break.

Roy

Very good analyse and conclusion about the quality of our Murena's.
These get "only mechanically a little bit tired" by the years and so need once in a while some
nice mecanic treatments to be again reliable.
best wishes for a problem-free 2017 for all Matra-friends
Guido
from Belgium

I think I would warn them about the cam shafts in the 2.2 as the game we have had getting new ones made, and the expense, have been a nightmare!

Roy has made a very big effort in opening up an option for 2.2 Cam shafts. Search in this section and the Market place for more info.

If you already have a good camshaft and wish to keep it that way then check that the rockers operating the exhaust valves have oil feed holes in them (the inlet ones don't and they are often replaced incorrectly) and use a good quality oil and change it regularly.

Hey Pete, you don't have to tell everyone about my stupidity!  ::)

However I got away with it without any problems at all, due to using a good quality motor oil.

Obviously motor oil is highly subjective, but as I consider the Murena engine to be a take on the Ford S.O.H.C. Pinto engine this is the one I use :

Millers Semi-Synthetic CSS 20w60

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automotive/tds-automotive.asp?prodsegmentID=268&sector=Motorsport

5 litres can be purchased for about £36:00 on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Millers-Oils-5-Litres-Of-CSS-20W60-High-Performance-Semi-Synthetic-Engine-Oil-/361357924104?hash=item54229c5708:g:ybEAAOSw3ydVwwdg

I've seen several with almost round cams, including some that were correctly assembled but not properly serviced.

An old article of mine..........

The AMP symbol on the original pcb indicates the board was made by Ampliversal but they don't seem to want to supply the necessary edge terminals for the plugs that connect to these boards, and currently Simon do not have any more of the copies he had made (although some may be coming later this year I hear) so I have been considering alternatives and improvements.


I have obtained some pcb connectors and plugs that would allow a conversion of the existing boards to get rid of the four plugs and the edge terminals that crack or break, cause so much trouble and are just about no longer available.  However, this first attempt has sort of failed as the plugs are too high to fit the pcb back into the carrier/surround plastic that is screwed into the bracket on the car.  It does work but the board would only be supported by the four wiring looms.

Since there doesn't appear to be any other plug and sockets small enough to fit in the space we have, I have decided the best alternative is to make the connections semi-permanent, much like say the fuse board wiring of an old 70's Porsche 911.  In other words, the connectors are soldered to the pcb and then you cut off the terminals and dispense with the plugs and the wire ends are screwed directly into these connectors.  This means it takes slightly longer to wire up the looms to the pcb and care has to be taken to fit all the wiring in the right positions, but after that the circuits should not suffer any poor contacts and loss of voltage.

Once I have the first board done I will write it up with photos and anyone struggling to get new edge terminals to replace broken ones will have an alternative that should actually be an improvement too.

Roy

Hello,
Once in a while on the French "Leboncoin" selling site, there are NEW original circuit boards offered,
but usually around €100. You can keep then the original connectors.
In the French forum "Matrapassion" there is someone who builded a number of "new" circuit boards
with modern components for other members, but there were new type of connectors used.
He had to construct at least 10 boards to reach a price range there too about €100.
(Including his personal costs for labour).
So these are a couple of solutions otherwise available.
Hope this formation helps
Matranimal greetings from Belgium.
Guido

Yes I know of the new boards as I have bought a number from Simon Auto, and they were good, but they are all gone, and maybe he might have some more made later this year, but they are expensive.  And the one main problem still remains - if the terminals in the plugs are broken, so the contact is reduced or lost (and often your get the pads burnt owing to arcing with those poor contacts) these terminals are now almost impossible to get, so what do you do then?


I have seen one of these and they are not that good in my opinion, and also cost a similar amount.  They put the relays on top of the board so you will not be able to fit the cover.  Relays don't need to be on top as they rarely fail, and in fact having them underneath means you can easily test them just by removing the fuse box cover as all their terminals are easily accessible on the top of the board.

This is why I was looking for a simpler and cheaper solution, which I now have.  I received some of the pcb terminal blocks I had ordered the other day.  I carefully drilled a series of holes in the pcb using a 1.2mm drill bit in my Dremel, and the terminal blocks can be inserted and soldered to the board.  These blocks have a screw so you can insert the wire from the loom and secure it.  Once you have all the wires attached you put the board back in its holder and mount it back in the bracket in the car.  Job done.

Now all the wires are fastened securely to the board, and the circuits are positive and don't have to rely on a spring loaded slide contact which is potentially poor.  The result is better connections using the existing board.  The cost?  Maybe £5 for the terminal blocks and a little work to drill the board and solder the terminals to it.  A couple of photos that show 1) the underside of the board with the terminal blocks fitted but before soldering the pins to the pads. (please ignore the wire on the board as this was a board with a burnt out track that had previously had a repair - I was using this board as my trial in case it didn't work)  And 2) the top of the board with the two terminal blocks fitted.  Another two would be soldered to the other side to replace the four slide on plugs.

One further point about this modification, in case you hadn't thought about it - you only need to change the plug with broken terminals for a terminal block if all the terminals in the other three plugs are still good.  So you can do as few as you need or do all four, it's up to you.

Roy

Nice work Roy.  Do you have a reference for the blocks?

What about this type of option easy to disconnect ???
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-Sets-9-Pin-PCB-Mount-Screw-Terminal-Block-Connector-Socket-3-81mm-/232176405623?hash=item360ecacc77:g:6wEAAOSwImRYU73u

Hello Ian

These would have the same problem as the first ones I tried.  The blocks would fit and solder to the PCB fine, but the plugs are too high and when fitted would not allow the PCB to fit back into the surrounding holder to be fitted into the car.

Roy

Hello Peter,

Yes they were bought from Rapid Electronics and they are made by CamdenBoss.  They are sold in blocks of two (CTB0500/2) or three terminals (CTB0500/3) but they interlock so you can make the blocks whatever length you require.  The Murena PCB has two 9-pin on one side and one 8-pin plus one 3-pin on the other. (although I am making that last one a 5-pin so there are more live take off feeds if required, since there is plenty of space on the PCB).

Now I have done the first prototype and made sure it works, I am about to place a large order for a 100 2-pin and a 100 3-pin blocks as the unit cost comes down and I can offer them to others to do themselves; or if they contact me first and the condition of the board is suitable, I can do the work for them.

Roy

Creative thinking and keeping things as simple as possible, congratulations!
Fine continuation to improve the Murena's.
Greetings from Belgium
Guido

I also fixed this problem permanently.
Not one electric gremlim was seen after this.
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