MatraSport Forum

Hi, reading the history behind this fascinating car - the Matra Murena - I wonder if anyone has tried to see if a PRV-V6 would fit in the engine bay?

The car was intended to have this engine, so I wonder if the designers had got so far at the time that the car *has* room for a PRV-V6?



Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

DeLorean VIN # 06759

Hi Stian and welcome to the forum. The PRV V6 would have been a nice match for the Murena, but it's a big, wide engine (having the unconventional 90 degrees cylinder angle instead of 60 as normally used on V6's), so it would not have been an easy fit in the engine room. For the amateur, trying to avoid having to make too many changes, I don't think the PRV-V6 would be an obvious choise. The V6 'standard' upgrade on the Murena is based on Alfa V6's.

I don't know if Matra had plans to fit it. Where did you hear/read that? If they did, they might just as well have considered fitting the engine longitudally instead of transversally., as they would probably have to make major changes to the engine room anyway.

I know, however, that they built a Murena chassis with the legendary F1 and Le Mans sports car V12 race engine fitted longitudally. It was never given a body, however, and it doesn't exist any more.

- Anders

Hi "neighbour" Anders,

I'm aware of the Alfa upgrade, however a PRV-V6 (if it can be fitted) is a more economical choice, since these engines can be sourced from used Volvo 760s. Also, it would make the Murena the car the designers intended it to.

The PRV-V6 (Peugeot-Renault-Volvo) was considered originally, but according to legend, Renault feared competition to its Alpine (and Fuego).

Best wishes

Stian B.

Anders - how big is the Matra's engine bay? (length x width)

Best wishes
Stian B.

I've heard a lot of bad things about the PRV-V6 .
Low power, poor quality that sort of things.

I dont know the exact measurements, but most engines will be a tight fit in any case.
My advice: If you want a v6, go for the Alfa conversion since this has already been done, and CARJOY in Holland can provide you with the subframe for the engine.

Peugeot people tend to think they are bad, but I don't agree. It's an excellent engine, reliable and tough, and highly tuneable. But any engine (even a bigblock chevy, for example) becomes unreliable if you tune it heavily.


I agree. The engine room is small for a V6. You can gain some space by moving the fuel tank to the front of the car (pick a racing fuel cell so it won't leak in a crash, the original location is much safer), but since the location of the rear wheels/gearbox/differential and thereby the crank shaft is more or less fixed, I'm sure you will run out of space somehow against the trunk.


I agree, but talk to Waldo about driveshafts - CARJOY's solution is not reliable.

But I don't see why you would want to fit another engine in the Murena? Especially not when you have the Delorean with the PRV V6. If you want another PRV V6, buy an Alpine. That's another great car. Murena is a great car too, 1.6's are tractible and perform excellently in mountain and country roads, 2.2's can be tuned easily to 140 hp and give joy even on the straight line. It won't outperform a Ferrari or a Lotus Elise, but it will make you smile!

That's my opinion, Stian.

PS: Do you have photos of your Delorean? :)

Apart from its lousy handling, wasn't the  PVR engine one peoples main complaints about the Dlorean ?? ;)

Remember.... If you don't you'll have an exhaust manifold right next to the plastic gas tank!!

In a crash maybe.. but otherwise no.
Consider that gasoline gives off highly flammable fumes even at normal temperatures..... now imagine the crammed and poorly ventilaterd engine bay heated by two manifolds.
If it was legal (which it my guess is that it most certainly is NOT) I would have a fuel cell made to fit in the front...  it would still be behind the front axle, and I think it might actually IMPROVE handling...

What ever you do, I think you should have a chat with either Waldo or Bart... between them they posses most of the "hands on" knowledge about murena engine swaps on this forum.  ;D   

I feel I have to point out that the conversion done by Carjoy is not without faults!
I'm not impressed with their work after having worked on a car converted to the Alfa V6  :(

But it a great engine when it's setup correct and goes quick as well  :P

Hallo
Here is 'link to a murena with Renault V6 build by politechnic in 1986


http://alpinerenault.free.fr/outils/forum/download.php?id=12689

 Regards Eric

PRV-V6
The engines before 1980 were bad. I've heard stories of "eating camshafts"...
However, this particular problem was corrected, and DeLorean - which came out in 1981 - got the PRV-V6 where the problem had been corrected.

It's a solid and great engine, but suffers from bad reputation (which isn't true)
The main concerns among DeLorean buyers in 1981 was that the car was "under-powered". This was mainly due to the fact that many saw DeLorean as a racing car (which it clearly isn't) and not a sports car/GT car (which it is). All DeLoreans were exported from Dunmurry, Belfast, Northern Ireland to USA. Because of US emissions, the engine was "strangled" with catalytic converters, so the horsepower was only 130...and americans love V8s and several hundred horsepower in their cars. That is why DeLorean got a bad reputation.
Nowadays, many remove the cats, get a free-flow exhaust and change camshafts and tune it up. Many swap engines also with Renault Alpine specs.

I got interested in the Murena, because they have a lot in common. The DeLorean has a steel backbone chassis (like Lotus Elan/Esprit) which is, unfortunately, not galvanized, but epoxy-coated. But it helds up very well. The chassis itself is made of glassfibre, with stainless steel panels attached to the body. It's a rear engined car (weight 35/65!!!) - the engine is all in the rear. Why not mid-engine? Because John Z. DeLorean wanted room for a set of golf clubs...

It has gullwing doors, which are excellent in tight parking spots. They are hinged at the middle of the roof, so the doors swing right up, not out, as you may think. Interior is leather/vinyl, huge centre console separates driver and passenger, almost like an airplane cockpit. Rolls-Royce feeling, yet drives like a go-cart, but if feels you sits in a sofa, very relaxed and low on the ground. The fuel tank rests between the Y-shaped frame in the front, here is also the radiator. I saw a Murena photo somewhere, which showed the car from the underside. It is very similar to DeLorean.

I'm very satisfied with the PRV-V6, and I think the Murena is a little underpowered, both sound-wise and horsepower. I don't have a Murena, but I'd like one later on. I have seen one in real life, and it is an attactive car. However, I don't think I would keep it original. I think the interior also can be improved with both leather and updated instrumentation etc.

I have photos of my DeLorean somewhere...in the meantime search Google.

Best wishes
Stian B.

I've been looking at some Murena photos, and I have to ask a (stupid) question.
When viewing the car from the rear, what's in the first room before the engine compartment?
Does this car have two luggage compartments (front and rear)?

Best wishes
Stian B.

Nope, only one at the rear. :)
The one in the front is only for the battery and spare wheel

Very interesting link. Seems it can be done after all.
Now, what/who is "politechnic"? An institute of some sort?

Best wishes
Stian B.

Hallo
Is a france tuning company.

http://www.politecnic.com/matra.html

Greetings eric

without the trunk you can fit almost everything  8)

Not really!.. In fact it's the "length" of the engine gearbox that's deciding factor more then the its "girth", since you can only fit so much between the rear suspension arms..... the left hand side propeller shaft very short and at a pretty steep angle with the standard 2.2 instalment. 

As I also have Tagora SX I must say that this engine is absolutely GREAT! Brutal power of nearly 170PS and huge torque moment makes this car very very fast. I can't imagine what will happend if they used it for Murena which is cca 300kg lighter - it had to be a monster. This engine is that brutal also thanks to 2 triple carbs and not by injection (which also calculates ratio between power/consumation/emissions).
But I think that there is not enough space for it and also carbs must be fited longitudaly to work properly, and if you put the engine behind the rear axle, you got the biggest disadvantage of all Alpines - engine at the rear. Maybe it's better than in front of the car, but not better than in the middle - like in the Murena.
Turbo conversions are also very powerfull, but don't want to imagine any problem on the way, to many changes from my point of view. The best and technicaly clearest reason to have nearly 200PS was Murena 4S - with 16 valve technology, but nobody is able to remake this  :(

  :o :o :o

 There are 3 cars - Alpine, Venturi and the 3rd is what? Its engine bay, rear glass, three seats - it's looking like Murena, but the body conversion hides all Murena shapes, do You know something more about this car or about this article? Which engine is in this Murena, it looks very compact, is it an engine from V6 Alpine?

 Hallo

On the next links you can see it was a Murena, only in a new body, Politecnic
had plans to build it, but the stop the project.
It had the same engine as the Alpine.


http://alpinerenault.free.fr/outils/forum/download.php?id=12689
http://alpinerenault.free.fr/outils/forum/download.php?id=12690
http://alpinerenault.free.fr/outils/forum/download.php?id=12691
http://alpinerenault.free.fr/outils/forum/download.php?id=12692
http://alpinerenault.free.fr/outils/forum/download.php?id=12693
http://alpinerenault.free.fr/outils/forum/download.php?id=12694

 Eric

The PRV V6 was designed as a V8 - Fuel crisis in 1972 cut off two cylinders, but they kept the 90 degree angle design - it is a lot wider than other genuine V6 engines.

A more modern engine is VW VR6, which from a design point of view is compact and has the exhaust manifold rear.
The gearbox is controlled by wire.
174 HP will barely be within no-trouble-zone, but the 140 HP version from the VW Transporter might work. I belive the difference is only in the ECU.

They are quite cheap on eBay.

Installation and legislation are the expensive and difficult parts.

Hey guys.. found this link on the 505 turbo forum...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0dMh1bZLJU

Normal aspirated pvr v6!!
I'd like to withdraw my previous statement.. I guess the pvr can be made to go PLENTY fast! :)

Yes it can!
I have a Citroën XM V6.24 with a PVR ZP engine of 2975 cc wich gives 200PS standard without turbo. The only changes I´ve done is a bigger exhaust and that made a big improvement in performance.
It´s a very big car but it does 0-100 km/h in less than 8 seconds and has a top speed of over 240.
And unlike the Alpine the XM can go fast even if the road is not straight ;)

He he yes.. there are a a few  clips on youtube of Alpines loosing the rear spinning.
Im sure they can be driven fast enough, but it takes skill.. and guts.... I have neither!.. so Ill stick with my murena  ;D