MatraSport Forum

Each model => Bagheera => Topic started by: andyowl on January 27, 2009, 08:50:21 am



Title: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on January 27, 2009, 08:50:21 am
I am looking for a motorsport Roll Cage for a Bagheera. Ideally an FIA approved version but any type considered. Minimum of 4 mounting points (behind the seats and beside the door hinge  posts). But two extra mounting points in the engine compartment would be better still.

I have found manufacturers in the UK who will make me a "special" 1 off example but you may know of one already available (or have suggestions where I might look).
Thanks
Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Stig on January 27, 2009, 02:32:07 pm
Hi Andy,

Unfortunately I do not have any ideas on finding a roll cage.
Have you tried posting at bagheera-cafe.com ?

It would however be very interesting to hear more about the race car project I assume you are working on  :)

Best regards,

Stig


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on January 27, 2009, 07:43:30 pm
Hi Andy,
 
Project with a compressor ?
Roll cage like this one ? (http://www.matra-bagheera.com/Plan/Bagheera/Racing/R__Boyer/Rene_Boyer/rene_boyer.html)


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on January 28, 2009, 09:33:38 am
Dear Stig and Spyros, Thanks for the replies. The 4 point cage in the rally Bagheera is what I had in mind. The foam rubber protection by the navigator's head seems larger than I would expect, but I am still learning the rules.

I took the Rene Bonnet Djet to a Rally Car Day at Castle Combe last year. We were on the Renault Classic Car stand as this  Djet has a Gordini 1149cc engine and the whole car is based on R8 parts. It has all the sporting modifications such as Roll Cage, electrical master switch, 4 point safety harness, straps for the bonnet and tailgate, oil catch tank, etc. Friends I made there have inspired me to try competition driving but I need a vehicle. The owner of the Djet, understandably, does not want it used in competition, and my wife "Charlie" vetoed me using any of our other cars, so it was time to do something about the French 1977 Bagheera I purchased in 1993. I wanted to convert it to centre drive, take the roof off to become a cabriolet, paint it yellow and add a supercharger (of which I already have two.)

Charlie supports the competition plans in principle and painting it "liquid yellow" from the 2004 BMW/MINI range is now agreed. I have a 1.6 Murena engine and a Shorrock supercharger from a 1.6 Cortina. Sounds possible. I also have a Wade blower from a Rover SD1 V8 3 litre (which sounds seriously over-the-top but great fun for a short time!). So I will achieve two of my four objectives. Not bad.

I got my MSA Competition Licence in January and all I need now is  the Baggy ready to compete in Sprints and Hill Climbs. I would also like to try AutoTests and Trials where the poor Bagheera power-to-weight ratio will not be such a disadvantage. My first event is in late March. Not a lot of time.

Not yet planning on circuit racing - I don't have enough experience - but a track day or two would help sort out the car. It is already insured for road use with the 1.6 engine fitted and the supercharger for only 200Euro total. Very good value, but that is one advantage of being a Grandfather!

Keep looking!

Andy

PS I didn't understand the Spyros reference to a compressor??


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: RazorbackNOR on January 28, 2009, 10:08:10 am
This sounds terrific!!  ;D

You have to post some pictures of this beatuy!


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on January 28, 2009, 11:38:55 am
The pictures at this stage would only depress anyone who has restored a Bagheera!

We are off to the painters today to get quotes for the paint job.

At the moment the car is called "Baggy Joseph" as he has a "coat of many colours". The top coat is French Blue, the one under that is a dark red, under that is a light grey "high build primer" I think, and then the dark grey Gel coat for the GRP. We had a small section of the front hatch blasted yesterday to find out what was there (apart from cracks and stone chips). There is a lot of hard work to be done by someone before we start to apply good paint!

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Stig on January 28, 2009, 09:42:09 pm
Hi Andy,

I am pretty sure Spyros is refering to a supercharger. I have seen it called a compressor elsewhere.

Regards,

Stig


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on January 28, 2009, 10:14:34 pm
Andy,

What about a racing Lambo ?
Wife veto ?  ;)


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on January 29, 2009, 10:24:32 am
That sort of "compressor"! Doh! Apologies for being dense.

Charlie vetoed racing the Urraco but she is a brilliant navigator and we used the Urraco on the Norwich Union Classic Rally last year. We had always used Baggy Grey for that sort of event, including organising the UK Matra Club December Tours, but we switched the Teratrip Rally Computer to the Urraco and now we have a choice! You can see it in the attached picture.

The visit to the painters yesterday was a shock! 4 weeks work and probably 4k Euro. Gulp! Difficult to justify. That does not include the 1,5k Euro for taking the old paint off! I feel a lot of hard work with a sanding machine is on the agenda. Then a DIY paint job. BMW/MINI "liquid yellow" paint is not yet available in spray cans from the aftermarket suppliers. Still thinking what to do.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on January 29, 2009, 04:06:04 pm
Hi Andy

Sounds an interesting project.

Having built a number of Simca race engines I would not try to extract too much power from the 1600cc unit. To achieve this increased capacity the engines were offset bored which moved the centre line of the conrod away from the centreline of the piston; this means that at high revs you can get flexing along the length of the conrod and after a while the engines tend to let go in a big way. Far better to use a 1442cc unit with a decent quality forged piston, these will rev to 9500 rpm regularly and safely, the bottom end of the Simca unit is very strong(forged steel) as long as it is well balanced. If you intend to rally the car instead of racing, don't use a cam that is too wild - more torque makes for a more forgiving car.

Your paint should be available in spray cans from an automotive paint supplier; they mix the colour for you and then fill the cans, in fact I think that Halfords (UK) also do this service but only with cellulose paint.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on January 29, 2009, 04:09:41 pm
Hello again

I have just remembered that there used to be a guy in the Simca owners club who ran a supercharged Simca 1000, it may be worth sending the owners club an e mail to see if he is still about or if anyone has the car or photographs of the installation.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on January 29, 2009, 04:31:20 pm
JL, thanks for the good suggestion ref the Simca club.

One of the merits of supercharging is that you do not have to rev the nuts off the engine to get better horsepower.

But it is nice to know that we can take it to 9,500 r/m!

One of the complications with Bagheera engines is that they do not fit neatly into any of the engine "Classes". The 1294cc Series 1 is less than 1300cc but then you are in the same class as the BMC A series engines e.g. Mini Cooper S! The 1442cc is in the "up to 2000cc" with twin cam ford engines. A blower is rated as adding 40% to the capacity so the 1442cc goes over the 2000cc class limit and would be mixing it with the Cobras and big V8s. A blower on the 1294cc would give a notional 1812cc. Maybe the better option? 1427cc would be ideal (a notional 1999cc) and I was wondering if there is any combination of Simca pistons and crankshafts that would come near?

So many questions!

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on January 29, 2009, 06:12:12 pm
It is a fair while ago that I was building these engines but I seem to remember managing to build an engine of about 1380cc using a 1294 crank with 1442 rods in an overbored 1442 block with some Omega forged pistons. The advantage of this configuration is that with the longer rods in the taller block the angle of the conrod is better and the crank is not trying to push the rod through the side of the block.

One other thing that I used to do was to cut a circular groove in the cyliner head above each cylinder and then make a solid copper ring to fit into this groove so that it protrudes about 20 thou and nips the metal part of the gasket against the block. This allowed me to run a high compression ratio on standard gaskets with never a failure even with a very hot engine.

Also consider running a tuned standard size engine as this will be far less hassle, do not be afraid of a Cooper S, you will have far better traction. I used to succesfully race against 1380cc Cooper S's with my Simca Abarth - a Simca 1000 type saloon with an engine size of about 1380 running on twin 40 DCOE carbs.

If you are considering loose surface rallying, one limiting area you will find on your car is the front suspension but if you stick to tarmac events you should be fine.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on January 29, 2009, 07:18:20 pm
With a blower it is usual to lower the compression ratio to reduce the likelyhood of pre-ignition. I didn't do this on the Viva and consequently became expert at changing pistons without taking the cylinder head off! Two gaskets will be worth trying but will not reduce the compression enough.

We are only proposing to participate in non-contact motorsport, at least until I get more experience. Tarmac rallys would be included but the main targets are Sprints and Hillclimbs. AutoSolos and Trials also look interesting especially the latter if I can persuade the Bagheera ride-height adjusters to work again. High for Trials and low for the others. Greg Dalgliesh wrote an article about Bagheera trailing arms recently in the MECUK magazine and described how it can be done.

Your 1380cc engine sounds interesting as well! Almost ideal for the +40% rule!

Thanks again

Andy Owler



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on January 29, 2009, 07:55:15 pm
To achieve this increased capacity the engines were offset bored which moved the centre line of the conrod away from the centreline of the piston;

John,

May I ask which type of 1600 engine you are speaking about ?
Somes have the bores equidistant, some not

Spyros



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on January 30, 2009, 12:11:38 am
Hello Spyros

At the time we looking at the 1600cc unit we only had access to a Solara unit, the 1442cc blocks that we used were from Alpine/Horizon (UK names) in which we used the distributer and camshaft from a rear engine Simca 1000.

The crankshaft from the front engined cars also required modification to the oil gallery at the bearing end.

The original idea was to build a very high revving unit with a short stroke crank from a 1294cc and forged pistons until we discovered the offset bores - a shame we did not have an equidistant bore block; what were they used in?

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on January 30, 2009, 12:58:43 pm
Hi John,

I need to have a look.

But, these 1600 blocks are somewhat strange. They have not been produce in as large numbers as the others but you find plenty of differences in them.

I have 5 of them and the 3 ones easy to look at are all different (small differencies)
The 2 other ones are in running cars (1 in a Bagheera and the other one in a Solara with the similar to Murena gearbox)
I speak about the gearbox because I removed one off my others from a Solara and this one had a BE1 gearbox. The crankshaft end is different. I already saw 3 1600 different types of crankshaft, not including the potential difference with ball roll or bronze bearing at the gearbox side.

I know that the oil gallery modification is mandatory but I saw quite a number of Rallye II using 1600 units.

I'll need to post a topic about that.

I also know a portuguese friend who, in period, rebored a 1442 engine to the bigger pistons. This was surprising to me knowing the little distance between some of the bores

Regards
Spyros


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on January 30, 2009, 01:08:14 pm
Roll cage progress...
I have received a quote from Custom Cages in Daventry England for £650 + tax for a Weld-it-yourself 4 point cage. 7-10 days to make but they cannot start until March 9th.

Andy Robinson Race Cars have a budget qt of £1260+tax (Wow!)

There are cages on eBay too plus companies selling the components to make your own (although the main roll bar over the driver's head must be in one piece.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on January 30, 2009, 02:38:50 pm
Hi Spyros

I think your friend was very lucky, to achieve the 1380 we did overbore the 1442 block but not by that much; the cylinder walls must have been very slim.

The 1600 is a usable unit but it is more unreliable with continual high revs, in a Rallye 2 in competition trim they must have relied on the extra torque rather than outright horsepower I would think. No problem for the road though.

Andy

If you get hold of an RAC blue book it will tell you the requirements for a competition cage including steel specs and sizes.
The material is not too expensive from a steel tube stockholder and many engineering workshops have tube bending facilities, measure carefully and get a friend with a welder on the case.
Having made roll cages in the past I think that your main difficulty will be trying to make diagonal bracing (a must) for the main hoop as it will need to go behind the seats.

Good Luck.

John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on January 30, 2009, 03:27:51 pm
Thinking about the cage, I remember some picture of a crashed Bagheera.

It should be similar to Murena. I might t seems that at a point, it the complete front leg which is bending at the base so that the top will end up with the dashboard on your knees. Perhaps a good idea to have a brace going to the top of front suspension ?


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on January 30, 2009, 05:38:14 pm
I don't want to think about a "crashed Bagheera"! I wonder where the "Crumple Zone" might end. There is not a lot of metal between the passengers and the accident, even when it was new, never mind 30 years later.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on February 02, 2009, 08:51:13 am
Spyros,

My French is not good enough to compose an understandable message for the Bagheera cafe. I wonder if you could put a message there for me about my search for a Series 2 Roll Cage?

I found a roll cage for a Porsche 911 on eBay and believing that it was around the same size as a Bagheera I put in a bid for about 300Euro. Overnight I decided that I was wasting my money buying a cage I had not even measured and trusting that I could modify it and make it fit correctly. Had it been in a crash? Was my welding good enough???? Safety is not something to economise on!

Happily I was outbid and it sold for 320Euro. Now I need to place an order for a custom made cage.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on February 04, 2009, 09:17:15 am
The roll cage search is over, unless you know better!

I have placed on order for a roll cage from "Custom Cages" in Daventry, England for around £650 / 730Euro +tax. They make the cage and I fit it to the car. A good compromise perhaps? All the other suppliers wanted twice, three or four times that sum. Way outside budget! So thanks for your help and the discussion.

I have also ordered some "sticky" tyres from Yokohama - the A048-R. They will go on original Bagheera alloy wheels which had 175/70 and 205/70 tyres as an option (my Reparation guide tells me). I couldn't find any tyres of the right size that were within the approved MSA/FIA tyre list. So I have ordered 175/60 R13 and 205/60 R13. Slightly lower gearing for Sprints and Hill Climbs may give some advantage even if they will not look quite right.

Now a question for all the Graphic Designers on the list...

I want to get a "sunstrip" for the windscreen that says "Matra-Simca Bagheera" or just "Matra Bagheera". Who makes such things? And does anyone know the name of the type face or "font" used by Matra e.g. for the rear panel on a Bagheera?

Andy



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on February 04, 2009, 05:32:09 pm
Beware of the XAS and XVS sizes. Compared to modern tyres of identical dimension, you'll see a serious difference.

The font for serie 2 Bagheera is microgramma bold extended.
If you cannot find a free one on the web, let me know.

Of course in order to get the same graphical effect, you'll need to outline it and to narrow (negative value) the space between the letters.
Those who bought my manual have an example.


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on March 02, 2009, 12:57:17 am
Baggy Joseph is ready to go tomorrow to have his roll cage fitted on schedule. We found more corrosion that we expected when we first looked at him and in consequence he has not yet had his annual test. This cannot now happen until he comes back from the roll cage installation and my guess is that it will be early April before he can participate in his first competitive event.

But we have made lots of progress given that the last time the car operated was 1995! The engine is now running very sweetly with no sign of over-heating. The gearbox is fine and the clutch is free. I have not had him out of first gear yet (in our driveway) and that was only last week after we got all the brakes working. New discs all round, refurbished "like new" calipers, new pads and new brake fluid. The heater and fan work, the air horns work now they have a compressor. The wipers and washers work too. We have contined to remove all the layers of old paint and we have removed: Blue, Red, original grey and we are now down to the GRP on doors, rear wings, sills, nose cone top and the front hatch. The new Yokohama sticky tyres are fitted on the refurbished Bagheera alloys and we took some pictures for the MECUK magazine this week. I have removed the original twin passenger seat and found an old driver's seat for Charlie's Navigator office (my wife). The old seat does not have an adjustable back and Phil Kitch tells me that it comes from a 1973 Series 1 Bagheera. We have found a local company who will re-cover both these seats after we have made holes in the head rests to take the 4 point FIA safety harnesses. Today I took the windscreen out without breaking it just in case the roll cage people put a hole in it by mistake! We have the safety harnesses and their eyebolt anchor points. We also have a 2.2kg fire extinguisher with two discharge points (for the cabin and for the engine compartment).

Tomorrow I was to have collected my race suit, helmet and gloves (all FIA approved) but Sparco have let us down on delivery and Grand Prix Racewear tell me that it will be mid-March before they are delivered.

I have entered an AutoSolo on March 22nd but Baggy Joseph will not be ready. Charlie has agreed that we can enter our original Baggy Grey as this is supposed to be for road cars anyway. They should get used to this strange 3 seater car as soon as possible. But it only has two seats now! The only two-seater Bagheera in captivity perhaps?

I was going to attach some pictures but I see that they are too big at 2.2Mb. Now I need to figure out how to reduce the file size! Any suggestions?

We are expecting him back in two weeks but in the meantime I plan to start painting the rear wings, sills, nose cone and the headlights. Still busy!

with best wishes

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on March 02, 2009, 07:36:15 pm
Here are Andy's photos of his car:



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on March 05, 2009, 12:45:35 am
Andy,

What are the dimensions of the rear tyrs ?


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on March 05, 2009, 08:06:59 am
Spyros wrote...

"...What are the dimensions of the rear tyres ?..."

I have fitted 175/60 R13 on the front and 205/60 R13 on the rear. Our other Bagheeras that have 205 size on the rear have had a little of the GRP wheel arch and the rear bumper removed to give some extra clearance. But otherwise they work very well.

I was recommended to visit a web site which has a very comprehensive tyre calculator system. You can enter your present tyre size and then select another size for comparison. It calculates the differences such as overall diameter, revolutions per km and mile, speedometer error etc.  and tells you other dimensions such as actual width and height. I found it very helpful!

http://www.tyretraders.com/Tyrecalculator/

I did not realise until yesterday that a tyre size without the "../60.." after the width implies an aspect ratio ("Profile") of 80%. Any tyre with a profile lower than this will be shown as ../60  or ../70 etc. All original Bagheera tyres were therefore 80% profile.

wbw

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on March 07, 2009, 01:14:15 pm
I think it's more complex that serie 80. If you mesure original XAS you'll see that they are too narrow to compare to modern rubbers.
 
How is the cage fitting ?


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on March 07, 2009, 02:48:57 pm
We delivered Baggy Joe to Custom Cages last Monday (March 2nd) and it has gone very quiet!

I expect to receive some pictures by email of their trial set-up for comment and approval, hopefully this coming week.

I'll keep you up to date.

Andy Owler



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on March 28, 2009, 11:00:05 am
28th March and Custom Cages have still not completed the Baggy Roll cage!  Indeed they told me on Wednesday that "they were going to start tomorrow" as though this was something to be proud of! April 1st is the current completion date but I am not holding my breath. March 14th delivery was their original promise.

Sparco and Grand Prix Racewear have also let me down with none of the FIA clothing being ready (Helmet, overalls and gloves). The lack of HANS fittings is the problem on the helmet and with my spinal problems I am reluctant to risk more neck damage by having only a basic helmet. I also specified an open face helmet that I can use on my 'bikes. They didn't have a race suit in my size either. I'm not that fat (stop that laughter at the back) after all my racing driver hero from the 1960's, Gerry Marshall, must have been well over 130kg! Maybe he had to wait a long time for his race suit?

The trimmers have not started re-covering the driver's and navigator's seats but that is my fault as I have only just got the location and size of the safety harness holes in the headrests. Now I need to cut some metal and then they can start.

So the next event on April 19th looks very tight where MSA/FIA approved kit is required not to mention the modifications to the car such as roll cage, battery cutoff switch etc etc.! Maybe the repainting will have to wait until later?

The delay is so frustrating - to think that we could have done another three weeks work on the car while Custom Cages have been doing nothing.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on April 04, 2009, 11:52:44 pm
Well it is better news!

Custom Cages sent three pictures of their work late on Thursday evening. We talked about them on Friday and I am collecting the car on Monday. Most of the final welding has yet to be done but that was what I intended to do originally.

GPR tell me that I can collect the FIA racing clothes also on Monday. Helmet and gloves are also there.

I was looking for a supplier of the links that join the ends of the anti-roll bar to the front lower wishbones. I had heard that they were difficult to get and I was considering using similar things from Nissan or Hyundai. To my great surprise one of my local parts suppliers told me that he could get them after a few days wait. The manufacturer is in England called Quinton Hazell.  Leave me a message if you need part numbers.

They have an on-line catalogue system and lists of parts can be downloaded in *.pdf format.

Check under "Matra", "Talbot", "Simca" or "Chrysler" in each section. You will find Bagheera, Murena and Rancho parts under their own name as well as the equivalent parts for the Alpine, Horizon and Solara. Brake discs, suspension parts, clutches, fuel pumps and many others. Worth checking!

So my team will be hard at work on Tuesday if they have not found other things to do with their spare time.

Best wishes,

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on April 05, 2009, 10:01:20 am
Hi, Hoping to see the pictures soon.
The issue with QH parts (and other sub standard manufacturers) is the usage of sub standard type of materials which lead to part worn in a couple of months


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on April 05, 2009, 04:24:58 pm
Ref "sub-standard spare parts".

I have started another topic ("Non-original spare parts") to argue my case as this seems to be a bit off-topic.

I feel quite stongly and I expect others may do too.

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on April 06, 2009, 08:20:27 am
The roll cage photos supplied by Custom Cages were embedded within their email rather than sent as separate JPG images. I (or AOL) always have a struggle viewing those images as AOL provides only a small window (like a "letterbox slot") to look at them.

I will take some new photos when we have collected the car today, not least because I want to record what they did before we start to weld fully all the joints.

They say they have added some extra parts to their basic 4 point cage and not charged me for them as compensation for the long time they have taken. We will now have "Door bars" running along the side of the seats to prevent side intrusion and the "Petit Bar" from the top of the main hoop to the floor at the front. The horizontal bar behind the seats to secure the shoulder straps of the 4 point safety harnesses to would also have been an extra charge. Let us see what their quality is like!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on May 19, 2009, 08:43:38 am
Yesterday Baggy Joe passed his annual "MoT" test! "On the road" again after 15 years of hibernation.

Cutting it a bit fine with Prescott on Sunday but we are at least street legal.

The roll cage is all welded and painted and will be fitted this morning. Photos to follow.

Fitting the driver's seat is this afternoon's task.

The car is a nice shade of "primer light grey" but I do not know if this will be the colour for Prescott. There is probably not enough time for the yellow to harden by departure time.

Back to work now.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 19, 2009, 12:16:30 pm
Yesterday Baggy Joe passed his annual "MoT" test! "On the road" again after 15 years of hibernation.

Hooray, congratulations! :D


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on May 19, 2009, 11:52:45 pm
Thanks for that!

Today was mixed progress! We fitted the roll cage for the final time and it all went together just fine.

Then we sorted out the extra throttle return spring that FIA/MSA require, so that was good progress too. Even my new Sparco race seat seems to fit after the roll cage was installed with only a new adapter plate to make.

Then the ignition key broke in the lock in the ignition ON position and I spent the next four hours trying, unsuccessfully, to remove the barrel without destroying the instrument panel. It is out now and tomorrow's first job is to fit my spare steering column.

I also think I cooked the coil by leaving the ignition switched on without the engine running. There was no spark and it only returned to normal operation after about 30 minutes. I have not seen this before in 30 years of Bagheera ownership. Wierd. I have ordered another coil just in case.

Got to be there on Sunday!

There are three Matra in the "Post 1971 sports car class". Graham Prime in his 2.2 Sprint Talbot Matra Murena and our Baggy Joe driven by me and my son Phil. The rest are Alpines, R8 Gordinis and a Marcadier Can Am  owned by friend Tony Gomis. Prizes unlikely then!

Andy



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 20, 2009, 05:44:33 pm
How annoying. Only positive thing I can think of is that it's good that the key broke now, and not on the race day! ;)
The roll cage looks impressive. Nice work. How did you get it in the car?

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on May 20, 2009, 08:22:37 pm
How do we get it in??

It is in five pieces:
1) The main rear hoop with a diagonal bar and horizontal "harness bars" for the safety harness shoulder straps;
2 and 3) the "A" bars that go from the outer upper corners of the main hoop to the floor by the occupants feet;
4) the "Petit Bar" from the top of the main hoop to the floor at the front of the cabin and
5) the screen bar across the top of the screen.

They are joined to each other by tubes with bolt holes for M10 bolts and nuts. I welded the nuts in place to make it easier to assemble and remove perhaps.

Any bars near the occupants helmets must have hard foam padding.

Getting all the bolts to align (having drilled all the holes myself) was the critical item and I am pleased to report that they all fitted in the end! Next time I will go for the fully welded-in cage and not bother with removeability.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 20, 2009, 08:29:05 pm
Next time I will go for the fully welded-in cage and not bother with removeability.

Next time... isn't one race car enough? ;)

It looks very sturdy, and I can't help thinking that a cage like that must be a bit heavy on the Bagheera? Have you been abe to do some weight reductions like replacing glass with polycarbonate, stripping interior etc?

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on May 21, 2009, 08:25:08 am
I meant to say "would" not "will"! Once is enough.

The cage is heavy, at least equal to the weight of a modest size passenger.

Weight saving is very desirable but all my effort has been towards getting the car to Prescott "La Vie En Bleu" by this weekend. We still expect that to happen although this morning we have decided to go there on Saturday rather than Friday afternoon to gain an extra day. It is that tight!

The "Modified" class allows a wide variety of possible weight reductions including replacing glass with plastic.

Scope for lots of advice from knowledgeable people such as you Matristi on this forum!

One of the French entrants at Prescott, in my class, is the French orgainser of the Franco-Brittanique Hill Climb challenge the French part of which is in late August at Etretat near Le Havre. I have been encouraged to seek an entry as he is keen to introduce new competitors and although Baggy is too young he may be persuaded to allow a mere 31year old car to enter!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on May 21, 2009, 03:45:08 pm
It must be good to feel safer  :D
 
I presume that anyway, it should be good to be able to dismantle the bar 4, just to be more confortable to drive to the events ?
 
Please a picture with the cage and seats in place  :P


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on May 22, 2009, 12:00:12 am
@ 2300 Thursday...

I have been making the brackets this evening to adapt the standard Bagheera seat mounting holes to suit the Sparco seat. Photos will follow!

Whether the scrutineers will think they are strong enough remains to be seen.

Another early start tomorrow!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 26, 2009, 05:30:48 am
How did it go, Andy? I hope you had a fun weekend!

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on May 26, 2009, 08:57:31 am
Prescott on Sunday was great fun! My son Philip (Bagheera S owner for over 10 years) also entered driving Baggy Joe with my wife "Charlie" in full support. A real family affair with the UK Matra club having a stand in the "French Quarter" and great support from them too.

The scrutineer was quite thorough but he only required us to tighten the battery securing strap and we were ready to go!

How did we do? On the first practice run up the hill we both "visited the gravel traps", mine being very close to the barrier, but we had similar times (slow!).

When we came to get Joe ready for the second practice run he wouldn't start. I think some of the many  visitors who had been sitting in Joe may have unconciously pumped the accellerator pedal as he seemed to be flooded. (This is not a criticisim of the visitors as I think we might all do this instinctively) We tried a rolling start down the hill and Joe was trying to fire but he just would not continue to run. We had not had time to find the fault with the non-charging alternator and so we had brought a spare battery. We tried that but in my haste I did not notice that we had not connected the second (ignition) wire to the positive termial so he would not start then either! We pushed him downhill, across the public road into the camping field where our motorhome was parked with his 6.7litre, V8 diesel charging system. It was lunchtime anyway and we ate while the batteries charged. After lunch he started first push and we drove back to the paddock in time for the first competitive runs.

Two more runs each but with slower times (my memory of the gravel trap and the Armco barrier was still very fresh!) saw the end of the day, and time to pack up. We have since found out that our accellerator cable had lost its adjustment and the throttles were only opening to 50% or less. It certainly did not feel as powerful as the initial practice run. My excuse anyway!

The weather had been beautiful and the help and support from competitors, family and the Matristi  was wonderful. I must particularly mention friend and Alpine Renault enthusiast Tony Gomis whose assistance, advice and encouragement has been pivotal in getting us to Prescott and beyond. Given Joe's unfinished state and our amateur performance I was surprised how many people said that it was great to have Matra represented in the La Vie En Bleu competition. Not just one Matra but two with Graham Prime's beautiful 2.2 Murena showing us how it should be done.

What now??? The "immediate" list is quite long and includes making Joe a reliable everyday car with a working alternator and reliable starting. Painting must be high on the list too for although I painted the headlamp covers in MINI Liquid Yellow the light grey primer needs a lot of rubbing down before we can paint the whole car.

Would we do it again?? You bet! Etretat (Le Havre) in August is likely although I am required to fit an FIA approved driver's seat. Perhaps one or two UK events per month in the season while we sort out the reliability and paint issues and with the plan for 2010 including a 1.6 Murena engine with some extra power. I was speaking to an owner of a beautiful open CG with the 1.6 Simca engine who also has one with a supercharger... So it can be done! The newly joined UK Simca club are also being very supportive with experienced competitors and tuners in their membership and I plan to pick their brains too.

Andy Owler

PS I find the fact that this thread has been visited nearly 2,000 times is quite amazing! Thank you all for your interest. It is very motivating to think that you out there are spurring me on. I am a notorious non-finisher of projects. You keep pushing me onwards. Thanks for that too!


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 08, 2009, 09:25:47 am
Photos of Baggy Joe at Prescott, May 24th.

There are two photographers who have pictures of Baggy Joe at Prescott.

www.pr-photo.co.uk
 
www.sgc.myzen.co.uk/msport/p240509/index008.htm

Look for car number 136 or 936 (myself and Philip respectivley although you cannot see the faces!)

I have ordered copies and requested permission to use them in the MECUK magazine.

Andy Owler

PS I have other pictures (interior, seats, roll cage etc) but the file sizes are too large for this forum. Can anyone tell me how to reduce the file size after they have been down-loaded from the camera? I use Windows XP Pro and have the HP imaging software supplied with their scanner. I suppose I could print the images and then scan them at a lower resolution. Anyone kow a better and/or quicker way?
AMO


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 14, 2009, 07:32:09 pm
Anyone kow a better and/or quicker way?

Hi Andy

On XP, I use a little tool, which can be downloaded from Microsoft. They call it a Power Toy, but it's neither a toy, nor very powerful. But it does the job og easily resizing images stored in a folder on your harddisk.

Go to this URL and download and install 'Image Resizer' (see rightmost column for links to the downloads):
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/Downloads/powertoys/Xppowertoys.mspx

When you have it installed, it will show up as a popup menu when you right-click one ore multiple images in a folder. It will display a right-click menu with an option 'Resize pictures'. Select that. A dialogue will then pop up, asking you for the size of the resulting image. It will per default create a new file of the requested size.

I think it does the job quite nicely!

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 16, 2009, 10:18:11 am
I downloaded the "Image Resizer" this morning and it works very well (and easily!).

What size should I use for images on this site? The originals are 1MB with a choice of smaller versions at 16kB, 40kB, 60kB  and 85kB.

Thanks very much.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 16, 2009, 04:40:38 pm
What size should I use for images on this site? The originals are 1MB with a choice of smaller versions at 16kB, 40kB, 60kB  and 85kB.

800 x 600 "Medium" is a good size for screen viewing, Andy.
Glad it works for you!

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 16, 2009, 05:09:18 pm
OK, here goes with some long promised pics.. Try one first perhaps! (This one is approx 60kB)
This is the Prescott set-up.
- Primer paint as we did not have enough time to paint him first.
- The headlight covers are the correct (future) colour.
- The towing ring is on a 5mm x 30mm aluminium bar fixed to the front cross member with a 10mm bolt.
- I have not fitted the clear covers in front of the lower lights. They are so hard to find that I would prefer not to damage them if I hit something.
- The front undertray has not yet been fitted (lack of time) I was still making the towing ring 2 hours before we left for the meeting!
(http://)
Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 16, 2009, 05:30:07 pm
Try a "large" image this time..
This shot of the interior is a bit dark but you can see that the top of the Sparco seat is hard up against the roll cage. It can recline a small amount but the base is fixed to the floor without the Matra (or any other) adjustable frame. This seat is now being replaced by an FIA approved OMP seat for the sake of the French Etretat scrutineers. It is much lighter, smaller and tighter on my "derriere". The Sparco seat is very comfortable but the OMP seat has not yet been used for driving. We have now fitted the other Sparco seat on the navigator's side ready for Rally use.

The fire extinguisher is fixed to the floor and operated either by the driver or by a "Tee" handle on the outside through a flexible cable. It is piped into the engine compartment where the fluid will spray on the fuel system (pump, filter and carbs) and into the cabin above the driver's feet where electrical fires are possible.

The yellow foam around the roll cage is to protect the driver's helmet and the driver too! It lowers the top of the windscreen quite a lot and it seems like you are looking through a "post box" opening. It was OK in competition and that is what matters!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on June 16, 2009, 06:33:19 pm
Please,
More, more !  ;)


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 16, 2009, 07:36:19 pm
Please,
More, more !  ;)

Yes, more, more! :D


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 17, 2009, 11:29:13 pm
Try a few more this time...
- The extinguisher is a requirement and it must be capable of being operated by the driver while seated normally as well as being operated by a marshall in an emergency. The position of the external control should be near the base of the windscreen on the driver's side. I assume the idea is that the driver pulls the handle as he gets out, in a real hurry (maybe with his derriere on fire?) and does not have to stay in the car while the extinguisher sprays fluid everywhere.

- At this moment we are relocating the extinguisher to hang underneath the "Petit Bar" where it does not get in the way of fitting the navigator's seat (see a later picture - to follow). This shot shows the lower foot of the petit bar bolted to the triangular section of the "footboard". We fitted threaded inserts here so we do not need access to the inside of the section. We strengthened this area to take the downward loads imposed by a crash when the harness bar and main hoop are supporting the weight of the driver/navigator and the loads are transferred to the floor by the Petit Bar. You can also see the extinguisher discharge pipe entering the console where an electrical fire is most likely. This car has had 10 previous owners and there is some very strange wiring. All I have done so far is to insulate the bare wires hanging down in the hope of minimising the risks of short circuits.

- This is the foot of the "A" Bar on the right hand side. Similarly strengthened to take downward forces as well as upward forces if the side of the car has an impact. Each flange has four M10 High Tensile bolts with captive nuts welded to a 100 x 70, 3mm thick steel plate below.

- The FIA approved, "four point" safety harness adds a nice splash of colour. There are two shoulder straps each wrapped around the "Harness Bar" behind the seat. They should be as near horizontal as possible and absolutley no more than 10 deg below horizontal.  The secretary of the motorsport club I have joined had a serious accident when he crashed his Porsche 928 into a tree during a "Sprint". He suffered crushed vertebrae because his shoulder straps went  to the floor behind the seat and forced his shoulders downwards when he hit. He was paralysed for two weeks until the swelling subsided and he regained the use of his arms and hands. Scary! The lap straps go to the original Matra points although with threaded "eyebolts" to allow the easy installation and removal of the belts. All four straps plug into a single buckle with a lever you push to one side to release them.

- Finally the "Driver's eye view". You see what I mean about looking through a "post box"? The "A" bar of the roll cage fits neatly around the outside of the console. It was a little difficult fitting the new door seal but it went in with the aid of a soft faced hammer. The ignition switch has the required label to tell the marshall how to switch off the engine if the driver has left it running (or is unconscious - Gulp!)

That's all for now. More pics to take tomorrow when the FIA seat has been installed, the Battery Isolator switch is wired up and the extinguisher is relocated.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on June 18, 2009, 10:36:17 pm
Was it to clear out the roll cage that you bent the gear lever ?

Very interesting pics  ;D


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 20, 2009, 07:54:50 am
Yes, we did bend the gear lever! I am surprised you spotted that! Well done!

At first we could not get the car into reverse gear as the knob of the gear stick was hitting the Petit Bar. It was not enough to remove the knob so we examined the gear linkage at the gearbox end. We found quite a lot of wear and replaced the "L" shaped lever (the one that is mounted on a threaded stud) and that improved matters a bit. It was only when I took the car for its first visit to the testing station that I found it very difficult to get it into 1st and 2nd gear as well! More work on the linkage adjusting the "Rose Joints" and bending the gear stick about 30mm to the left (using heat and a lot of effort) and we could then get all the gears.

Learning curves take a lot of time.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 07, 2009, 08:54:31 pm
The electrical work is now complete with the battery isolator switch, coil supply switch and alternator shunt all operating as intended. There is a separate "start" panel with a shrouded, toggle,  "ignition switch" and chunky "start" push button where the radio used to be.
 
The steering lock still works and it has to be in the "ignition on" position before power is applied to the new ignition toggle switch. This acts as an interlock to prevent the car being started if the steering lock is still on. The shroud prevents the ignition being turned on until the shroud is open and merely hitting the shroud will turn off the ignition, very much faster than groping in an emergency for the ignition key which is quite a stretch when strapped in and out of sight anyway. We know how vulnerable it is to breaking as well!
 
There is now an ammeter, calibrated voltmeter and supercharger gauge in a separate pod to the right of the instrument binacle although the supercharger gauge is labelled "turbo" and is not actually connected up yet!
 
Finally I have fitted a large red "Low oil pressure" warning light where the cigar lighter used to be.
 
Yesterday I was lining the garage walls with painter's dust sheets to save having to take everything out of the garage before painting which started today. We now have two yellow sills plus front and rear undertrays. I'm getting better at spraying paint but I suppose we should call it "Lemon Peel finish" rather than Orange Peel?? How about "textured"?? Sounds like we intended it that way!

Andy

Some more pics...


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 10, 2009, 10:09:21 pm
Thanks for the update, Anders. It's really becoming a real race car now. Nice seat. Why did you replace the other one? I'm glad to see how much you are thinking about safety. Did you get your HANS device by the way?

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 11, 2009, 07:14:41 am
We are required to do most of the safety related things by FIA and/or UK's MSA (Motor Sports Association) to compete in National events. This includes the battery cut-off switch and the fire extinguisher both with their remote operating systems.  The roll cage is required because we have "sticky" tyres.

The original black Sparco seat is now in the navigator's position (as of last night) as we hope also to do some rallying later this year. We orgainised the Matra Club December "Tour" for a number of years and we've done three "Classic Rallys" two in Baggy Grey and one in the Urraco.

I replaced the Sparco seat with the red OMP seat (which is FIA approved) at the demand of the French organisers of the Etretat, Le Havre, hill climb in August. It was a condition of entry that everything must be FIA. I understand that they had a serious accident a little while ago when two competitors were injured or killed and they have tightened up on safety and conformity to the regulations.

I just don't see how the OMP seat is "better" than the Sparco. On Sunday, tomorrow, I will maybe find out as Baggy Joe is entered in an AutoSolo and again next Sunday in the Sprint at Longcross, near Chertsey Surrey. The latter is an old Ministry of Defence vehicle test track and supposed to be good and challenging.

By the way  - - - We have a yellow car! see pic below!

He is now reassembled and ready to go and do battle! Oh.. I forgot that I have not fitted any of the undertrays yet. They will have to wait until next week.

Today we are off to the Ardingley County Show in Sussex to exhibit Charlie's Renault 4 "Malibu". First time he's been in a show although I converted him from a regular R4L in 1993 when there was more rust than steel.  Now he has no roof, no doors, fat Gordini wheels and tyres with heavy Bull Bars front and rear and a roll cage. He is also 300mm shorter! Think Renault 4 "Jeep" and you will get the idea.

I need a holiday!

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on July 11, 2009, 11:11:51 am
Nice to see the evolution.
What kind of paint did you use ?


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 14, 2009, 09:12:28 am
The paint used was purchased from a supplier I found on the internet. They are in Altrincham, Cheshire and supply by mail order. Contact Geoff Morton, 07740 103894 or 0161 969 3980. He races classic sports cars (mainly British) and is very efficient. When I looked like running out of top coat before I had finished the job he supplied another 2.5 litres of mixed colour within 24hrs of my order delivered by courier, by 0930 next day. Impressive!

The paint manufacturer is Palinal (Palinal Vernici) from Brescia, Italy (mail@palini.com).  The paint type on the tin was "Nitro Airdry" and on the technical data sheet as "NitroSynthetic Enamel Class 407". I understand this is a fancy, technical, name for "Cellulose" i.e. the traditional paint as used by Matra originally.

It is VERY FLAMMABLE and you must NOT have anything electrical switched on when the paint and thinners are in the air. Spraying in the dark is not easy and I compromised by having the garage doors 25% open and both windows at the rear of the garage also fully open. It would have been good to have a "bug screen" over the window apertures to keep leaves and flies out but in practice this proved not to be a severe problem. I hung PVC thin plastic dust sheets over the walls and doors to minimise the paint dust settling everywhere and that seems to have worked quite well. I chose a windy day for the spraying to help disperse the fumes quickly. I hung a piece of this plastic sheet below the "up and over door" so that I could see by its movement that there was plenty of air flow through the garage.

I moved the compressor out of the garage into the adjoining "bike shed" to take it away from the flammable gases. I left the ceiling fluorescent lights on all the time and turned everything else off especially our gas fired central heating boilers which are also in the garage!

Personal Protective Equipment : 
Breathing: I used a breathing respirator from www.RSWWW.com  part number 228-7934. Manufacturer is JSP Ltd., Oxford and model Olympus "Filter-Jet" to EN405:1992.  It is specifically intended for hydrocarbon (organic) solvent vapours and particles and I was impressed with how well it worked! On the first day I forgot to put it on and half way through I began to feel a bit dizzy. Someone had warned me of the dangers of breathing the fumes so I stood beside the open window until the fumes, and my head, cleared. Afterwards I used it all the time and did not notice any bad effects. I only noticed how good it was when I had finished spraying and took the mask off. The smell of thinners hit me like a train! Recommended!

Gloves: Thinners and paint dry the moisture and natural greases out of your skin very quickly. I used protective gloves from RS (part 186-3509) by Ansell Edmont. Sol-Vex in Belgium. Quite thin with a cloth type lining I found them very good. My hands always sweat wearing these type of gloves but that discomfort is small compared with the pain of sore and cracked skin! Also recommended.

Cover-alls. I used a disposable "boiler suit" which stayed remarkably clean. RS 405-492 is the part number. It has a hood with a drawstring to protect your head and the garment was about 1.5 sizes too big! A belt would have been good to stop the slack around my waist touching the car (I can't often say there is slack around my waist these days!)

Eye protection: Wearing glasses I tend to ignore eye protection but this time I wore a simple face mask, mainly to stop getting paint on my specs!

By the time I had got all this gear on I was both hot and steamy but well protected.

Since the above information is "safety related" I take it seriously but I need to say that if you choose to copy what I did then the financial limit to my liability is the same as the amount you paid for the information i.e. zero!

Andy

PS Pictures of the finished result at the FDMC Summer AutoSolo on Sunday.  Pictures going off to France today with my entry in the Etretat Hill Climb in August!


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 16, 2009, 09:35:52 am
Baggy Joe's entry for Etretat has been provisionally accepted. I was told that he would be the FIRST Matra Bagheera to compete in the Etretat Hill Climb! Last year's event was won by a Matra Djet with a 2litre BMW engine!

I have also learned that we came 3rd in the Historics Class at last Sunday's AutoSolo beating three MGBGTs (two with V8 engines). The winner was an Austin Healey Sprite with an MGBV8 in second place. There is hope yet!

Someone took a video of some competitors and it is on Youtube : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2LneZS_dPc

Baggy Joe is at around 1m45s in the video.

The car seems to be rolling far too much! The rear wheel is almost off the ground!
- So what do I do to reduce the rolling? Suggestions very welcome!
- He also seems to have too much ground clearence and I plan to do some measuring today.
- He has new shock absorbers at the front but I stopped looking for new rear shockers.
- Going fast around corners also produced excessive understeer with the outside front wheel scrubbing off the speed very quickly. Not enough instant power to kick the tail out. Maybe more pressure in the front tyres?
- I have found a source of 25mm wheel spacers. They might improve the stability as well as look better!
- Introduce some negative camber on the front wheels??

Good ideas very welcome. Now well out of my depth!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JV on July 16, 2009, 11:01:07 am
Indeed, looking to the video my first reaction was: too much ground clearance and rolling too much. If you can reduce these you must be able to improve the performance substantially.

Jan


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 16, 2009, 04:41:11 pm
The lack of underside body panels and the compressed 16:9 format into 4:3 of the video make Baggy Joe look a little like a racing 2CV :D

A big congratulations on coming 3rd! That's very well done, Andy.

About roll: The only way to reduce roll is to lower the car (reducing the forces acting on the suspension), and/or to stiffen the suspension. Unless you go to extremes and change the suspension layout completely, but I guess that's out of the question...

But the fact that you go so well through the corners (despite the roll!) indicate to me that your car is performing quite well. How did it perform compared to the Miata's for example? It's quite obvious that you have a very good feeling of what you are doing, whereas the Miata drivers are either inexperienced or have less driver feedback from their cars - or both?

About understeer: Yes grip generally increases with increased tyre pressure (until a certain point) but the best way to set tyre pressure is to take a temperature measurement across the tyre surface. It should be even. This can be done with an IR thermometer. High temperature in the middle indicates too high tyre pressure (tyre bulging out), higher temperature on the edges indicate the reverse.

Increased camber can help, but the IR thermometer will help you there too: High temperature on the outside edge of the tyre and you should increase (negative) camber. And vice versa.

But there's one more way to reduce understeer, and that is to transfer load to the front of the car. Ballast is one way to do it, but it adds weight. Reducing rear weight is another, but could become expensive.

No, the way race car engineers have for years balanced their cars is by setting up the anti roll bars: Making the rear end stiffer, transfers load to the front wheels and reduces understeer. Make the front end stiffer, and you reduce possible oversteer. Etc.

This works by transferring load from the least loaded wheel, through the chassis, to the diagonally positioned wheel in the other side. So if your left hand rear wheel is very lightly loaded in a tight left hand corner, a stiffer anti roll bar will aid transferring load to the right hand front wheel through the spring/shock absorber and the cahssis. THIS will reduce understeer.

I think you may find inspiration on how to make an adjustable roll bar on this photo of a Matra F1 car. The roll bar is the silver bar starting next to the rear wheel in the front. The bracket on the bar is attached to a rod connected to the lower A-arm on the suspension. The bracket can slide front to rear of the roll bar to tune it:

(http://gallery.dinsen.net/d/7575-2/DSC_3334.JPG)

New rear shocks should also be considered, as in the dynamic environment, they will also be transferring a lot of load from your cars' rear to the front.

The above is just theory, I'm not a race car engineer (I would have loved to be though!), but I've studied the subject for fun, and I've promised my second-oldest son that we will buy ourselves a Formula Ford to do some classic racing in - and to be successful in such a beast will require a lot of suspension tuning (while engines aren't allowed to be changed).

It's great to see you emerge from "your depth"!

Cheers,
Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on July 16, 2009, 10:34:42 pm
You can also try to playa bit with standard parts.
There was 2 thickness of rear antiroll bar.
I also know that the 2 little veritcal links can have a lot of impact. If the rubber parts are not good ...
And the dampers.


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on July 16, 2009, 10:47:59 pm
Hi Andy

For a little light reading get a copy of this book.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Race-Rally-Car-Source-Book/dp/0854295720/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247776957&sr=8-2

There is also a later edition of the book on Amazon but I have only read the earlier one.

Good Luck
John



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 17, 2009, 05:18:55 pm
What a lot of advice! Thanks very much.

- I have ordered the Amazon book.
- I'll check the rear ARB bushes. Would stiffer bushes help??
- Bagheera spares book gives Rear ARB thicknesses as 18 or 19mm (section K44). I have no idea what I have now. Will check while I'm underneath.
- Rear Shockers seemed to operate smoothly and progressively just exercising them off the car when we were restoring him.
- I checked the ride height last night and it is significantly higher than grey Baggy. I'll report back to you the numbers shortly.
- How do you calculate the correct tyre pressure? Ask Yokohama perhaps? I know the overall car weight (945kg)and I think the Bagheera distribution is 45% front, 55% rear.
- I have an IR thermometer - I'll give it a try. One complication is that the short races may not allow the tyres to heat up enough to detect the changes. Running fast on a Motorway may give the same answers? I'll try it at the "Sprint" on Sunday.

What a lot to try!
 Thanks again,

Andy Owler

PS My Etretat entry has been confirmed today. International motorsport! Wow! Watch out next for WRC entries!

AMO


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 17, 2009, 07:20:56 pm
- How do you calculate the correct tyre pressure? Ask Yokohama perhaps? I know the overall car weight (945kg)and I think the Bagheera distribution is 45% front, 55% rear.

I don't think there is a formula for it - experiments is probably the best solution. If you can find a deserted parking lot and set up some cones in a circle making a skid pan, you can try different setups and see how fast you can do corners with them. It doesn't only come down to weight distribution, but also camber, suspension, load transfer... It's a difficult science!

Quote
- I have an IR thermometer - I'll give it a try. One complication is that the short races may not allow the tyres to heat up enough to detect the changes. Running fast on a Motorway may give the same answers? I'll try it at the "Sprint" on Sunday.

In that case I'm afraid you could look at tyre wear. Your sticky tyres should wear pretty quickly, so you might be able to even detect wear after a few laps or so...

Since the motorway is mostly straight, I wouldn't count on it... a long drive on country roads is probably better.

Quote
What a lot to try!

It will never end! :D

Quote
PS My Etretat entry has been confirmed today. International motorsport! Wow! Watch out next for WRC entries!

Haha, we will look out for you in WRC - you can count on it! You might consider a partnership with Prodrive - I think they have a WRC team to spare after Subaru shut down...

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on July 19, 2009, 11:50:45 am

Hi Andy

I would suggest your first port of call is to get the car lower and get a set of decent adjustable shock absorbers and set at mid range, if you cut down the rear coils this gives you a stiffer spring rate – not such a bad thing. Once you have done this, either go on a track day, a sprint on a decent length track or a practice session at a local circuit - most used to do this for half a day midweek.

 Run the car with near standard tyre pressures and then check your tyre temperatures across the width of the tread and note the readings, then adjust the pressures in small increments up or down and then recheck the temperatures and continue to compile your data(remember hot and cold readings will be different). You will then be able to see a pattern develop and you should also feel the difference in the car, you must  drive quickly but  be consistent and smooth and not drive wildly(watch Jenson Button - smooth but quick) and try achieve the best compromise for an even temperature across the tyres.

You can then try adjusting the dampers up and down making adjustments to the front and rear independently; again you should be able to feel the difference in the ride and handling and keep checking the tyre temperature.

The last port of call for you probably is the spring and roll bar rates, on the circuits which are generally very smooth I ran my cars very stiff – particularly at the rear, 1000lb springs in the rear of a Simca Abarth Corsa (based on Simca 1000 and rear engined) but for sprinting and hill climbing I would tend not to go too stiff but play with the anti roll bars.

Unfortunately this is all very long and drawn out but unless you can find someone who has done it already and then convince them to divulge the results it is the only way.

Hope this helps a bit.

Regards
John



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: lewisman on July 19, 2009, 11:04:58 pm
All good advice, but Baggys have torsion bars at both ends so spring rates are adjustable by tensioning torsion bars which if I remember right means that increasing the "spring rate" increases the ride height.

Also, if my memory serves me well, the rear adjusters on a Baghhera seize up on the drive from the factory to the showroom!

Body roll might not be the main problem. First generation Renault 5s had plenty of roll but when they hit the stops they still made it round corners. 

I would try to find out if you have a genuine understeer problem first. You may need a lower tyre pressure at the front than you might expect due to the light front end and weight transfer.  You are not going to powerslide a Bagheera on a dry circuit so oversteer is unlikely!!


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on July 20, 2009, 11:17:42 am
Hi Lewisman

You are right of course, I had forgotten that the Bagheera suspension is different to the Murena, the years have dulled my memory. It would really help to get the car lower but I now remember on my wife's old Bagheera the rear suspension was seized solid and changing the clutch mas an absolute mission!

I think concentrate on tyre pressures and anti roll bars first.

One trick we used to use when spring rates needed upping and we were restricted on spring modification was to modify the shock absorber top mount to make the upper mounting washer removable and then slip rubber bump stops over the shaft to act as additional springs thus upping the rate, all good fun but maybe over the top in this case.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on July 20, 2009, 03:23:03 pm
My yellow Serie 1 S had during a long time a lower than normal ride height.

I change it to normal but the capabilities of the car was also altered.
I agree with John, get it closer to the ground.
Some says that they are able to unseize the rear arms by heating them


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 21, 2009, 09:46:54 am
Well thank you all for the advice. What a team!

An update while I produce all the testing figures in a digestible form. I have ride height data and tyre temperature data to present but I need to collate it first.

In the meantime we have tested the front suspension ride height adjusters (torsion bar screws) and they work OK. I have not yet tried the rear adjusters, but one has been fitted with a grease nipple by someone in the past. By whom and why I have no idea. And why only one side??

Front ARB bushes are new in the last 6 months. The rears are worn but not too bad. Surely replacing these bushes with "Rose Joints" would make for better control and less "slop". Would not this be beneficial and relatively simple to do?

The "Scorpion" Sprint on Sunday at Longcross, near Chertsey was good fun on a 2mile / 3.2km former army vehicle test track. A fast banked section, a long straight, the "Snake" being a series of 90deg, 180deg bends and chicanes with another adverse camber 90deg bend and long lefthander to finish. I came close to the bottom of the results table but it was a "National" event not a club affair as the previous Sunday. I took 4 sets of tyre temperature readings which are interesting and worth analysing.

What Scorpion showed, as if I needed reminding, was that Baggys go round corners very well but lack power for the straights and long curves.

Last night I convinced myself that fitting the smaller Shorrock Supercharger (Blower) should not be too difficult. (Dream On!) I may get it out later and see if it can be made to fit! Fitting it to the existing 1442cc engine rather than putting the 1.6 Murena engine in at this stage will save a lot of time.

New pics to follow later.

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 21, 2009, 10:33:00 am
Some pictures of the "completed" Baggy Joe, last Sunday.

The raised headlights were not intentional! I have not yet connected up the vacuum system and when I was doing over 115 km/h they came up by themselves! I like to think of them as air-brakes, like an aircraft. This would account for my slow top speed and my lowly position in the results.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on July 21, 2009, 02:01:52 pm
Andy
Practical classics are running an article on how to fit a blower onto an A series engine, whilst not directly applicable the technology will be similar. The first part of the article has been dealing with checking over the engine they real nitty gritty starts next month.
Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 22, 2009, 07:02:10 pm
I'm starting to work on the Supercharger project for our Baggy Joe. After an exchange of emails with Lennart I am going to start an additional thread for supercharger discussions. Murena 1.6 owners, not to mention Simca enthusiasts who have supercharger experience, may also be interested in this topic and the extra "Subject" may make it easier for others to find and contribute to the development.

I suggest we keep this "...roll cage wanted..." thread for suspension and non-engine tuning e.g. lowering, stiffening, adjusting and tyres etc.

I'll load some supercharger pics onto the new "Subject" shortly.

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JV on July 22, 2009, 09:54:23 pm
Interesting topic, I expect.


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 28, 2009, 09:37:40 am
For the moment I have decided to concentrate on improving the suspension. Looking at the professional pictures taken at the Longcross Sprint (a "National B" status event 10 days ago) see... 

http://www.rallygallery.com/2009_SCORPION2.aspx?Page=12

...it is clear that Baggy Joe is rolling far too much. More power is needed but the ability to go round corners quickly is just as important and I think more power should come after going around corners quickly, if I have to set priorities!

Possible changes include:
- Lowered suspension (I have made some progress on the leftside rear, more work needed. Front should be easier)
- Stiffer anti roll bars, front and rear (we already have the 19mm rear ARB)
- stiffer suspension bushes all round (change to Superflex/Proflex Polyurethane bushes)
- adjustable shock absorbers (although I don't think the rolling is caused by poor shock absorbers)
- wider wheels and tyres (I bought 7J x 15" rims from a forum member last week)
- or wheel spacers and the existing wheels and tyres (which already feel superb with good control and powerful braking)

If you have any thoughts or experience on any of the above please let me know. Especially alternative anti roll bar supliers. I have found EPM Ltd in UK who can make "special" ARBs.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on July 28, 2009, 10:47:42 pm
2 additional things for the suspension.

a) Front antiroll bar still. After June 78, another shape of the end of the torsion bar is adopted and this allowed shorter vertical links (7mm) without interference.
It is possible to reshape the ends andthen play with the lenght of the vertical links. I cannot say what the effect will be, nor if you need shorters or longers links. The lenght is  determined by a piece of tube.

b) Torsion bars.
No need to look at the rear. Your bagheera being a serie 2 has slightly ticker rear torsion bar than the serie 1
But, if the rears are Bagheera specifics, thefront where shared with other models of Simca.
First, within the Bagheera range, the diameter was higher on the serie 1 ( 17,5 mm versus 17,2)
But if you then expand the range, if I'm not wrong, the suspension is identical to the simca 1100. (not the later 130X models)
Then there were other models
1100 & Rancho had 18 mm diameters torsion bar.
But even better, there was ( hope to find this...) a heavy duty suspension for the 1100, with 20,3 mm diameter torsion bar.

My hypothesis is that the torsion bar has more effect than the shock absorbers.


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 29, 2009, 08:11:49 am
Spyros, thank you for that info! Very helpful.

I have joined the UK Simca Club but have not yet asked for their help! Sounds like a good time to start.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on July 29, 2009, 10:01:23 am
Andy

Rather than obtaining different OE roll bars I would make up an additional adjustable bar, this will be far easier to experiment with.

On the subject of supercharging unless you are dead set on the pain of developing a system you can easily gain sensible power from conventional tuning; one other thing to consider is the strength of the clutch and gearbox. Rear and mid engined cars can be very unforgiving off the line with the weight over the rear wheels giving superior traction.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 29, 2009, 11:27:56 am
An additional ARB rather than a stronger single ARB is a new idea and a very good one at that! Thanks very much! I'm away to the garage to think!

I am pretty convinced of my ability to make the supercharger work in general although I share your worry about the strength of the clutch, gearbox and final drive. People say that the Bagheera transmission is "bomb-proof" but that is in the context of a 1442 or 1.6litre engine and not one equivalent to 2,200cc. I have spare gearboxes and transmissions so the only way to find out is by letting off a bomb! I also have several spare engines and they might as well get used up in a good cause.

Thanks for your comments.

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 02, 2009, 09:12:09 am
Suspension changes...
I have changed the links that join the ends of the ARB to the trailing arm to use all metal Rose joints. The hope is that they will eliminate most of the "slop" present in the original setup (about 8mm without trying too hard!). They LOOK good but I have yet to try them on the road. Cost about GBP 45. Parts from RS Components or Demon Tweeks.  Harder plastic ARB bushes to replace the rubber Matra ones have yet to be fitted and I have just fitted better rubber ones for the moment. I wanted to see what difference the Rose Joints made. Pictures below..

Twin ARBs...
I am working on the idea of using two ARBs rather than trying to find a thicker one. Putting two ARBs in the saddle intended for the standard set up will not work as they will rotate and rub against each other. I think I need to have separate mountings for ARB#2. I took pictures of the "two in one saddle" to show you how they look.

Ride height...
I have now lowered the right side a little with more to come after use on the road (hopefully). Although the leftside trailing arm has grease nipples fitted the rightside does not! Bizzare. Photo is from the Series 1 of Greg Dalgleish.

Wheel spacers...
I purchased a set of 25mm wheel spacers (the maximum that the MSA regulations allow) and 80mm x M12 x 1.5 pitch wheel studs. They fitted easily enough and my only concern is the possibility of the tyres rubbing on the bodywork. Time will tell and an angle grinder should cure the problem(s). Pictures...

Now to try the front ride height adjusters...

Andy



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 02, 2009, 03:18:30 pm
Interesting photos, Andy.

Rather than two anti roll bars, how about cutting a metal plate with threaded holes in different places, and welding this on the trailing arms? With your adjustable length joints, you will then be able to move the attachment point upper joint on the trailing arm, thereby adjusting the effect of the anti roll bar.

This is just a random idea, and I don't know if it will give you the stiffness you need, but I'm afraid the double arms will be too much... after all, you probably don't need much more grip at the front to cure your bit of understeer.

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 02, 2009, 07:45:36 pm
Anders Dinsen wrote...

....I'm afraid the double arms will be too much... after all, you probably don't need much more grip at the front to cure your bit of understeer....

I'm a beginner here and I have not yet read my new book on suspension design for competition cars. Are you saying that adding stiffness at the back will increase rear grip to the point that we will produce more understeer at the front? Not a good idea!

I have been looking at lowering the front of the car and I have a theory as to why it is so high. I have read that if you take the front suspension apart you must wait until the weight is back on the front wheels before you tighten up the various bolts. I wonder if someone in the past has not done this and the rubber bushes in the upper or lower wishbones are holding the car artificially high?

Lossening off the front bolts might be interesting!

Andy Owler




Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on August 02, 2009, 08:01:45 pm
You can change the lenght of the links with this rose joint set up.
This should be enough to see the effect. I don't believe you'll need the plate with holes.
Longer links = more effect. Isn't it ?


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 02, 2009, 08:12:36 pm
I don't think the length of the vertical links will affect the stiffness. Surely it is the front to rear side arm length that affect the leverage on the trailing arm and it is this that affects the stiffness?

Ultimately, if the ARB was very very stiff, it would be like having a solid rear axle and we would lose the "independant" rear suspension?

If I could mount ARB#2 forward of the vacuum tube and extend the horizontal side arms backwards to reach the vertical links that would give me some more stiffness but not double the stiffness. Comment??

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 02, 2009, 09:57:44 pm
I'm a beginner here and I have not yet read my new book on suspension design for competition cars. Are you saying that adding stiffness at the back will increase rear grip to the point that we will produce more understeer at the front? Not a good idea!

No, it's the other way 'round. Adding stiffness at the rear roll bar increases grip at the front. But you only want it to a certain point - since stiffening the rear roll bar will transfer load from the rear to the front, you will loose a little grip on the rear. In the extreme case, the unloaded rear wheel will loose contact with the road, which - unless you have a limited slip differential - is a bad thing in a rear wheel drive car.

@Spyros: No longer links won't change anything.

Quote
If I could mount ARB#2 forward of the vacuum tube and extend the horizontal side arms backwards to reach the vertical links that would give me some more stiffness but not double the stiffness. Comment??

No, since it will still act on the same place on the trailing arm, the effect of the anti roll bar on the wheels will be the same. You have to move the connection point on the trailing arm forward to reduce the effect. . Move it towards the rear, and you'll increase it.

/Anders



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 03, 2009, 08:15:51 am
What a lot I don't know!

I'm at the University of MatraSport!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 03, 2009, 09:21:22 am
What a lot I don't know!

Haha - well we can all say that! Learning is great :)

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 05, 2009, 08:25:55 am
Suspension test drive last night...

The improvd links on the rear ARB seem to have made a big difference to how the rear of the car feels. Much tighter with a more controlled feel. This is the first time I have driven the car on the public road (other than going to the annual test) and it is hard to make objective comparisons but I am pleased with the result for a very modest cost.

I adjusted the front suspension by two turns of the torsion bolts after slackening the shaft that holds the rubber bushes on the upper wishbones. There was a slight reduction in the ride height before the test drive and a bit more afterwards. It has gone down about 10-15mm but is still higher than our Grey Baggy. More adjustment needed.

The rear suspension had also been adjusted but when I measured the ride height again before I went out it was 3mm HIGHER than before. I realised that I had taken everythng out of the luggage compartment (including the supercharger, 2" SU carburettor and most of the air cleaner system!) and that made the difference! After the test drive I measured the ride height again and there was no reduction. More work needed. I have ordered the two 45degree angled M6 grease nipples and they should be here next Monday. The Matra German instructions recommend the use of Molybdenam Disulphide (MoS2) as the grease but I am wondering if PlusGas or similar release oil will be better initially. I also wonderd if it might be better to blow release oil into the new drillings using 7bar compressed air rather than a grease gun filled with liquid oil. I have also thought about making a clamp to force the trailing arm towards the steel adjustment cam and then hitting it hard! "If in trouble or in doubt, get a bigger hammer out" (Marine Engineer's Golden Rule - it often works).

The good news is that the new 25mm wheel spacers do not seem to be causing a problem with the tyres hitting the GRP wheel arches. Even driving fast over speed humps did not cause contact. This may change of course when I eventually get the suspension lower but it is a good start.

Back to the garage...

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 08, 2009, 10:10:09 am
Suspension update, Saturday August 8th.

Well I've fitted the grease nipples to the RH rear suspension after failing to get it to move more than 2.5mm (reduction in the gap under the adjustment cam) using brute force and hammers.
 
Looking at the sectioned trailing arm I am not too hopeful that any grease will get though. The clearance is so small and what was there is filled with ally/steel products of corrosion. I tried to get some PlusGas into the grease nipple but it came out of the side! Wait and see I suppose.
 
I made a heavy duty clamp using two 12mm x 40mm steel bars with M20 studding at each end in an attempt to compress the adjustment cam and reduce the gap. In the end I bent the bars! Even using a "sledge" hammer, in a confined space admittedly, it still didn't shift.
 
Even though I have reduced the clearance under the adjustment cam (I had already opened it by nearly 3 turns on the screw to give a gap of 5.8mm) to 2.6mm the change in ride height is negligible. It is still higher than Grey Baggy! I calculate there is a 1:4 ratio, gap change to ride height change, so I should be looking at a height change of around (5.8-2.6) x 4 = 3.2 x 4 = 12.8mm and that should be measurable even visible!. So I have decided that I will abandon the rear suspension changes until after the Etretat / Le Havre Hill Climb in two weeks time.
 
"Plan B", if waiting for a while doesn't work, is to remove the arm and make a single slit at the forward ends of the casting to try and relieve the clamping forces of the casting around the steel shaft. I am thinking of using a large "U" bolt or two on each leg of the arm to augment the ally strength afterwards although my instinct is that it will not be necessary. Desperate I know but I really do need to lower the rear suspension!
 
To my surprise the front adjusters have not been a problem. They must have been greased at some time. I have not yet worked out the ratio of adjustment to height change. At the moment there is about 30mm of thread available to adjust.
 
I have started to measure "Ride Height" an easier way. I just want it as low as I can without tyre rubbing or grounding on the speed humps in our road! For comparison purposes I have been measuring the distance from the underside of the wheel arch to the ground on the centreline of the wheel. Saves all that stooping or crawling underneath. I would be very interested to know these dimensions on your Bagheeras!
 
I checked our standings in the AutoSolo championship that my motor club (FDMC) are running. There are 10 cars in the Historic Class, 9 of them Healeys or MGBs and one Matra. The Matra is 5th out of 10! How about that?
 
Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 12, 2009, 10:03:56 am
Tyres and pressures...
I just sent this email to Yokohama UK about the pressures they recommend for the A048 tyres I am using. I await a reply.

Dear Simon Clark,

I would very much appreciate your comments and advice on the following set-up.

I am using A048 tyres for MSA National B Sprints and Hillclimbs plus clubman AutoSolos on a 1977 Matra-Simca Bagheera S. This is my first season.

Tyres are run cold or luke-warm, at best, after several runs. See below for further details.

Total weight on the start-line is 1,045kg with a 45/55% front/rear weight distribution i.e.:
- total front 470kg and rear 575kg
- or per tyre front 235kg and rear 288kg.

Tyre sizes are: F: 185/60 R13 80H
                        R: 205/60 R13 86H
based on the tyre width and circumference I have used on another road-going Bagheera for >15 years.

Wheels are 5 1/2" J original Bagheera alloys now with wheel spacers of the maximum MSA will allow i.e. 25mm.

The car is mid-engined 1,442cc with around 85BHP driving the rear wheels. Lefthand drive with full 5 point roll cage.

Could you recommend tyres starting pressures for further experimentation? I presently use 27psig (1.86barg) front and 30 (2.07barg) psig rear. I started with much lower pressures (copying the pressures used on an Alpine-Renault with A048 tyres) but the car handling was very poor. These pressures are around 2psi (0.14bar) higher than those used on the road-going Bagheera with similar width Pirelli tyres.

Understeer has been a problem but using better anti-roll bar mountings (harder bushes and Rose joints on the linkages with "slop" drastically reduced seems to be improving that. Stiffening the ARB itself has not yet been tried due to lack of suppliers.

Tyre temperatures were measured at the Longcross Chertsey Sprint last month after each run (infra-red non-contact meter).
- Ambient temp was around 72F/22.2C  (I forgot to measure it - sorry). I forgot also to measure the road surface temperature. Weather was cloudy but dry.
- I was interested in the temperature variation across the width of each tyre as well as the average tyre temp front and rear.
- Temps are measured in Fahrenheit & differences in Rankin degrees as this gives 50% better resolution with a single decimal point display.
- Maximum temperature seen (after the second practice run) was 102.4F/39.1C (left rear inner - closest to the exhaust?) with the coldest 87.8F (right front centre).
- After the 2nd competitive run (it rained briefly before the start of that run and the track was slightly damp):
     - the difference across the width of each tyre was: left front = 1.8R, right front = 0.6R, left rear = 2.8R, right rear 1.6R
     - the average temp on each tyre was:    left front = 96.5F, right front = 95.6F, left rear = 92.4F, right rear = 92.0F (This is also the order in which I took the readings. Maybe there is some "cooling down" trend here??)
- I regret that I did not check the tyre pressures again at the end of this run nor check the temps or pressures after the 3rd run.
- I have all the above on an Excel spread sheet if that would help.

Hoping for your help. The tyres are fantastic and everything I was lead to believe. I will certainly buy them again for next year, unless you have something more suitable for my needs!

Thanks in advance,

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on August 12, 2009, 04:33:52 pm
Andy
If it any help I used to run 28psi front and 36psi rear on my Simca Abarth race car when using Yokohama 008's.
Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 12, 2009, 07:51:29 pm
It will be interesting to hear what they have to say!


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 12, 2009, 08:46:26 pm
Andy
John wrote...
If it any help I used to run 28psi front and 36psi rear on my Simca Abarth race car when using Yokohama 008's.
Regards
John

Interesting that Yokahama 008s are "List 1a" at the moment. How did you find them in the dry and wet? The FDMC AutoSolo organisers are talking of banning List 1b tyres as they give an unfiar advantage to the users and are not really "entry-level" as AutoSolos are supposed to be. I was thinking about getting a set of 1a tyres to use "everyday",  and for AutoSolos, but it would be nice if they could be semi-sticky.

PS I received an "out of Office" message from the chap at Yokohama  so I do not expect an answer until next week.

Thanks,
Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on August 12, 2009, 10:47:51 pm
Hi Andy
Sorry, I should have said 008R, they were brilliant in the dry but poor in the wet; they were the same tread pattern but softer rubber. Some of the guys used normal 008 rubber and they were also pretty good in the dry. In the wet I used to use a soft rubber version of the Avon Turbospeed, they clung on for grim death but on the Le Mans Bugatti circuit I used 4mm of tread in 10 laps!
You could really do with having 2 sets of wheels and tyres. For the dry use a pretty well worn set of tyres - more stable with less tread movement and for the wet plenty of tread to move the water.
Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 17, 2009, 07:44:27 pm
Yokohama replies ref tyre recommendations....

Hello Andy,
                        Thanks for the info.
 
                        It looks like that you have a fairly even temperature spread across the tyre treads. However taking temperatures on a treaded tyre can sometimes be miss leading. If possible try to use a needle probe type pyrometer so that you can take the temps. at the carcass, this gives you more consistent readings, as the heat tends to radiate away at varying rates from the tread surface. A temperature spread with  a variance of 15 to 20 degrees C across the tread is quite acceptable.
 
                        You could try lowering the cold starting pressures by 4 -6 psi, as the hot pressure needs to be around 25 - 28 psi. This of course will be dependant on weather and track conditions etc. Also try using the same pressures for the front and rear, this should give you a more neutral handling balance.
 
Best Regards
 
Simon
....Ends

Interesting suggestions!
- I am surprised that a temperature variation of 20-30 degrees C  is acceptable!
- I will try to take temperatures in the tyre grooves - I was trying to avoid them before!
- Lower tyre pressures to start with are also worth trying (1bar=14.5psi)
- Equalising pressures front-rear is also something I would not have tried as I was following the Matra design.
I'll give them a try at Etretat this coming weekend.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on August 17, 2009, 10:49:46 pm
Hi Andy
I will be very interested to see your feedback from Etretat armed with this latest information; the concern I would have is getting the tyres up to temperature quickly enough but it has to be worth a try.
Good Luck for the weekend
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 26, 2009, 09:22:34 am
Etretat was not what I hoped for!

Driving back to the paddock from scrutineering in the town centre, there was a very loud "bang" and the feeling of running over something large and hard. A grinding noise also started and I stopped as quickly as I could.

There was nothing on the road behind me and I looked underneath expecting to find something trapped there. But nothing!

I set off again and the grinding started again in time with the road wheels and rythmic. Another look still showed nothing, not even oil leaking. To make a long story shorter the differential casing had broken into several pieces but this was only seen after I had driven about 10km back to the paddock via a Bricolage in a neighbouring town because I and several others needed large hose clips to secure better the fire extinguishers as demanded by the scrutineer. A Simca 1100Tii driver lifted up Baggy Joe and we could see the gears inside the differential rotating. My weekend was finished!

Back home I have started to remove the differential. The whole of the right side of the casing is separated from the left side with some additional large casing pieces loose but still supported by the gear shift rods. I cannot imagine what force was needed to break the aluminium casing which is 5-8mm thick where some of the breaks are located. Photos will follow!

Some possible clues...
- I had seen a few drips of oil after the last Sprint three weeks ago but failed to investigate it properly. Maybe the casing was starting to crack? I assumed that an oil seal was leaking but obviously not seriously.
- I had "Check the diff and gearbox oil level" on my list of things to do. But I forgot.
- That morning I had bumped up a grass "kerb" on the exit road from the paddock. Could this have stressed the bottom of the casing?
- The previous day I and my wife Charlie had been in Baggy Joe to the same Bricolage for a water pipe for the motorhome with no problems. The diff was obviously not at breaking point then.
- I have "only" owned the car for 14 years. What has happend to it in the previous 18 years? Who knows?
- I should count myself lucky that it has done so well thus far!

What now?  An AutoSolo in 3 weeks and a Sprint on October 11th. Both entered and paid for. Both are end-of-season events too.

Well I have several spare diffs in the store. One is complete with a gearbox and bell housing but its condition, like all the others I have, is unknown. But at least I know the gearbox output matches the diff input. Another diff and gearbox are lying together so they are probably a pair. Maybe the others might donate a casing so that I can rebuild the old one (if the gear teeth are not too bad!)

My "wish list" would include a Rancho Grand Raid Limited Slip differential and gearbox. Does anyone know of one for sale? I would also like Rancho low compression pistons for the supercharger engine to be fitted during the winter. Any ideas? I will put messages onto the forum, search the net and ask the expert Rancho people I know. Any other help will be most welcome!

If any Francophone Forum Members would place french messages on the Rancho websites I would be most gratefull. I would not want to destroy a Grand Raid but someone may have taken one to pieces in the past.

In the meantime... back to the garage.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 26, 2009, 07:16:20 pm
What a pity! It should have happened during the race, that would have been much more fun!  :D

There must have been a small crack somewhere in the diff casing, and the torque has just ripped it apart. After all, aluminum does corrode...

I hope you'll be able to find a limited slip diff. It will be interesting to hear about your experience with it. Don't forget, however, that a limited slip diff will consume power and since you are track racing (and not rallying), you migt be able to achieve the same effect without power consumption by working on the suspension (lowering the ride height). But this is just speculation, of course. Only if you try it will you know!

I get the feeling that you are not too put down by this incident.  Keep up the good work! :)

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 27, 2009, 12:20:06 am
As you suspect I am not too put down!

In truth I am pleased that it did break on the road and not on the Hill Climb. Most of the Etretat course is edged by Armco railings and a broken diff during hard acceleration around one of the corners would have probably spun me into the railings with considerable damage to the car if not to myself.

I have never heard of a Bagheera diff breaking before so I hope this is a freak accident. Fitting another one and taking more care with oil checking is all I can do at this stage.

The good news is that a new Historic Class Hill Climb Record was set by Gerard Magro in his CG-Simca!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 27, 2009, 07:36:45 pm
In truth I am pleased that it did break on the road and not on the Hill Climb. Most of the Etretat course is edged by Armco railings and a broken diff during hard acceleration around one of the corners would have probably spun me into the railings with considerable damage to the car if not to myself.

Ah, very good point. The armco is safe for the spectators, but must be a horror to drive between!  :o

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on August 27, 2009, 10:35:28 pm
Hi Andy

If you go for a LSD you really need a unit that you can adjust; I am not sure but I think that the Rancho unit is a full locker so that if one wheel starts to slip a small amount then the diff locks solid. In the wet that will give you serious understeer, in the dry if there is a lack of power to break traction on both wheels you will also get more understeer but when you have sufficient power to break traction you will go very quickly from understeer to oversteer!
If you have an adjustable diff you can allow more wheelspin which will reduce understeer but not give you a wild transition to oversteer.
If you are really set on a LSD, install it before you do much work on the suspension.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 28, 2009, 09:05:37 am
John,

Thanks for the warning. You are demonstrating that I do not know anywhere near enough about LSDs! I can see that a locked axle would produce some very strange and undesirable reactions.

I'm going to start another topic about gearboxes and differentials as there seems to be much to learn and discuss.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on August 30, 2009, 11:08:20 am
I posted you quest for a RanghoGrandRaid diff on the Bagheera café.
I should have the doc somewhere : If I remember well, to do this modification, you'll need to also change the transmission arm on the gearbox side


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on September 12, 2009, 08:29:24 pm
Text of an email I have just sent to the organiser of the event I had entered tomorrow. It tells the story. Not out of trouble yet!

Dear Richard,
 
I am very disappointed to say that I have to retire from the September AutoSolo tomorrow.
 
My Matra Bagheera suffered a split differential between scrutineering and arriving back to the paddock at the Etretat Hill Climb in France 4 weeks ago. All the way to Le Havre and no run up the hill! We met the French organiser at the Prescott French weekend at the end of May and he had invited us specially because the Bagheera is an unusual competition car, even in France!
 
I have now changed the diff and the gearbox, fitted a new clutch, freed off the rear suspension adjusters to give a lower rear ride height and a dozen other enhancements over the last few weeks and gave him a trial run on Friday morning. There is a serious growling from the transmission and I have not been able to track it down, never mind fix it. It doesn't growl when rotating the wheels on the jacks so I conclude that wheel bearings or drive shafts are possible culprits.
 
It is very disappointing! I was hoping to improve on my current 5th in Class (out of 10!). Next year maybe. Now I need to get him fixed in time for the Eelmoor Sprint in October.
 
So my apologies to you for letting you down. I won't even be able to help out with the admin, although I'm sure you will have it well under control.
 
With best wishes and thanks,
 
Andy Owler
Matra-Simca Bagheera S
 

... My plan now is to try to use the MoT man's brake testing rollers to hear where the sound is coming from. It is a growl as the wheel goes around. Maybe the diff failure caused some damage to the wheel hub?? I removed the rear wings again in case the super low rear ride height was causing rubbing on the bodywork but there was no improvement.

Any suggestions or experience to share?

Andy

Andy
 
 
 


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on September 17, 2009, 10:18:46 am
I regret to say that the continued growling from the "new" gearbox and diff is probably my fault, not that of a previous owner! Talking to friends and my son about the problems reminded me that we saw some damaged shims when we separated the "new" gearbox and diff before we installed them in the car. They were separated because a) I wanted to minimise the weight to be lifted when re-fitting them and b) I wanted to check the diameter of the gearbox output pinion and the number of teeth on the diff "crown wheel" - more of this later.

The damaged shims were between the gearbox and the diff itself and they govern the meshing of the output pinion and the diff crown wheel. When we put them in the car, in my haste, I forgot about the need to re-fit shims and check the pre-load in the diff.

There is a second pre-load with its own shims and my understanding is that the tapered bearings that support the "bridge" or cage (the four gear wheels that allow the road wheels to turn at different rates when going around a corner) require to fit tightly, but not too tightly, And I didn't check those either. So a double fault on my part I am sorry to say. If either pre-load is not correct bad noises or worse may result!

Interestingly if the Bridge preload is too tight that may result in a split diferential casing. Sounds familiar??

I am travelling in the west of England at present but when I return I plan to take both gearbox and diff off again (getting better at doing that!) and get them examined professionally to check whether they are good enough to be re-used in a competition car with sticky tyres, 25mm wheel spacers and a supercharger! I have another gearbox which was factory re-conditioned (they say) and maybe I should be using that in Baggy Joe. Perhaps this is the "rainy day" I was keeping it for?

As usual, any comments you may have or gearbox & diff experience you would like to share would be most welcome.

Out of my depth again. What a lot there is to learn!

Andy Owler (Matra-less for the moment!)


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 12, 2009, 04:00:14 pm
Well, Baggy Joe had another outing yesterday at Sprint Royale in Aldershot, the first time with the new gearbox, the checked out differential and the VERY low rear suspension. It went very well!

The two practice runs and the first timed run were in the dry and each time we were faster. Out of one 180 degree corner I managed to "wag the tail" (like a happy dog!) but kept it on the road anyway. After that it started to rain and everybody's times got longer, including mine.

On the last run someone earlier had spun off and there was mud on the road. I came around the corner trying hard having found the Yokohama A048 tyres still giving lots of grip and Baggy wanted to go straight on. We compromised and I destroyed a "turn right" sign going only halfway around the corner. The right side of the bumper was split but my time was still 2 seconds quicker than the previous lap!

GRP bumpers are quick to repair. What I need is more pratice in the dry and especially in the wet. This is England after all!

There is a track day in 2 weeks time (October 27th) at Mallory Park and the Simca Club are taking part. Sounds like a good excuse for a day out!

Thanks for your continuing support and advice.

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Lanng on October 13, 2009, 03:20:32 pm
Keep them stories coming! and best of luck with the wet-tranning and as always ... "THE PEOPLE DEMAND PICTURES!"  ;D
Maybe you could do a small post with pic and data regarding the setup of Lord "Baggy Joe"?

/// Lanng


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 14, 2009, 08:51:08 am
Suspension setup is:

The front adjusting nuts are at the end of the thread i.e. the nut is still fully engaged on the thread.
The rear is lowered until the torsion bar cam is touching the trailing arm aluminium.

The distance to the ground from the underside of the edge of the wheel aperture is:-
Front: 555mm
Rear: 540mm

Pictures are below with Grey Baggy for comparison whose setting have never been changed i.e. as it left the factory.


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on October 14, 2009, 09:29:51 am
Hi Andy

Do you have any rear suspension movement now?

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 14, 2009, 09:52:21 am
Suspension movement? It is a good question!

There are no "Bump Stops" on the rear suspension as far as I can see and I have always assumed that they are inside the rear shock absorbers.

In the driving I have done since lowering the suspension I have heard no sounds of "bottoming" other than the gear linkage and silencer hitting the concrete when I went much too fast over a "sleeping policemen" in my own road.

I should measure how much travel the rear shock absorbers still have. That would give us an idea of the remaining travel.

I have also replaced the rear anti-roll bar linkage bushes with Rose Joints in the same way as I did the front. The whole suspension now feels much more "controlled" and people have commented at the Sprint that the car is rolling very much less than it did. The inside rear wheel was coming off the ground on Sunday in a fast 180degree bend (I could hear it spinning) and that resulted in the "tail-wagging" moment!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on October 14, 2009, 02:44:55 pm
As you still have movement at the rear I suggest that you adjust (lower) the front further by moving the torsion bar by one spline and then readjusting the retaining bolt (I assume that the Bagheera also uses a splined end on the torsion bar) to get the car level although you may find that you have to raise the rear slightly to stop getting stuck on speed humps.

John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on October 14, 2009, 08:14:19 pm
Wonderfull !  :D

Andy, did you readjust the front direction height based on the new level ?

John, The end of the torsion bars are hexagonals. So, moving it by 1 "spline" will generate 60° difference. It is an awfull lot. I think that it might be easier to make longer threaded bolts
It should be something like this (http://www.hellopro.fr/images/produit/produit_la_119097.jpg)


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on October 14, 2009, 09:52:25 pm
Curses, I thought that the end with the torsoin bar adjusting lever might be like the Alpine/Solara with a splined housing that fits over the hex on the torsion bar, never mind. The longer thread on the adjuster is an ideal solution.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 14, 2009, 11:12:08 pm
The front torsion bars are splined and the rear are hexagons! So moving the front levers by one spline would give a possibilty of lower ride height.

However I wonder if the tyres, while they are not steering straight, might touch the underside of the wing?

Adjusting the steering angles... not enough knowledge to comment. When we were loading the car on the trailer it did seem as though the wheels were not parallel to the edge of the trailer. I should get the angles checked. But would you use the same angles as if the ride height was normal or should there be for example, some negative camber to give better front wheel grip and counter "understeer"?

I am waiting to see the official pictures of the event. That may give us a better idea of what should be done.

Andy

Glad you like the pics!


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 21, 2009, 08:23:24 am
Hi Andy

Do you have any rear suspension movement now?

Regards
John L

I checked the rear suspension movement this morning while underneath fitting a new starter motor.

The movement is ZERO! When I undid the bolt at the bottom of the shocker and tried to raise it there was no movement at all. Not good!

I have now raised the suspension to give 24mm downward movement but it this enough? How does one tell? I could make "tell-tales" to fit on the shocker lower tube and which would be pushed downwards under compression to reveal how far the 24mm is being used. Any better ideas?

Having shockers designed for the lowered suspension is another, although expensive, way.

What are the consequences of running on the bump stops apart from the strain on the shocker upper and lower mountings? Poor roadholding when the whole car is lifted by the bump stop on the outer side of the bend when cornering fast?

My track day on Tuesday is the time to experiment with ride heights perhaps.

I am having the geometry of the front and rear suspension checked professionally today. "Merit Tyres" in Leatherhead, Surrey, say they will do it free of charge. We shall see!

Anyway, a big thank you to JL for asking the very good question. It had not occured to me to check!.

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on October 21, 2009, 03:18:26 pm
Hi Andy
Am I correct in thinking that it is the rear shock absorbers limiting the movement?
Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 21, 2009, 06:46:01 pm
The rear suspension travel on a Bagheera is limited solely by the shock absorbers. I have never taken one apart but if you operate the shocker by hand the force required increases dramatically at the upper and lower ends of the stroke. I believe there are "bump stops" inside.

The reason I did not notice the car hitting the bump stops over sleeping policemen and other upward obstructions was that it was already resting on them! Having been out today with the rear suspension 24mm higher than it was at the last sprint I will admit that I did not notice any difference. On a track next week it may be very different however.

Today I had the suspension and steering alignment checked by some very sophisticated optical/computer kit. Maybe you are familiar with such toys but it was new to me (maybe I should check wheel alignment more often!).

The rear suspension was close to perfect which, as it is officially "non-adjustable", is just as well. The front needed some adjustment in camber and toe-in. Toe-in was  expected as the lowering of the front suspension means that the track-rods that connect the ends of the rack to the steering arms are now virtually horizontal whereas before they sloped down towards the wheel. We adjusted the right hand trackrod and the computer gave us a display in real time as we made the changes. The left side front wheel also had a camber fault. We removed 2mm shims from each of the two top bolts on the wishbones and the camber was corrected. Easy Peasy and not expensive. If all "Merit Tyre Services" staff are as good as the guy who served me today I can certainly recommend them.

So next Tuesday we will have our track day and try adjusting the front camber again to reduce the understeer typical of all Bagheeras.

Just one point to ask you...
- The Bagheera manual gives "pincement" (toe-in I believe) in millimetres as 1-3mm. The computer did not accept this as a way of specifying toe-in and we had to use the Talbot Alpine "degrees" figure instead. Does anyone know the recommended Bagheera toe-in in degrees?

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: JL on October 22, 2009, 02:04:31 pm
Hi Andy
For the conversion try this link  http://www.furybusa.org.uk/camber.php

Is your rear suspension movement reasonably progressive or does it go solid very suddenly because of the shock absorber limiting the travel?

Do you have  a picture of one of your rear shocks, it has been ages since I last saw one; we used to modify spax shocks but without knowing what yours look like I do not know if this will be any help.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 22, 2009, 03:26:10 pm
An interesting web site! Kind'a puts you off doing circuit racing doesn't it?

Mick Ward from the Simca Club is following the same train of thought as you I think and has suggested fitting shorter shocks from another car. I will take some overall length measurements and take a photo at the same time.

The original shocks are very linear for most of their travel and it is only in the last 25-30mm that they get progressively harder. It feels like a conical "stop".

Thanks for the suggestion.

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 29, 2009, 12:30:50 am
We had a good day yesterday testing suspension settings at Mallory Park race circuit. I had never driven Baggy Joe hard for more than 2 minutes without stopping before!

Conclusions:-
- We have now raised the rear ride height from "absolute minimum", as in the photos, by 35mm i.e. 10mm more than last week. We fitted pieces of thick white plastic pipe to the narrow lower part of the shock absorber and downward movement during compression of the socker pushed the pipe downwards. This told us that even with the 25mm increase we had last week the shocker was "bottoming". The pipes were refitted and I have not yet checked them again. It is possible we may need to raise it some more.

- We played with tyre pressures and concluded that 27psi front and 28psi rear gave the best confidence (1.86 bar and 1.93 bar )

- We removed 3mm of shims from the upper front suspension to introduce a little "negative camber". It is hard to see the difference but it made a big difference to the, already good, handing. The steering is much lighter and the understeer is certainly reduced.

I and my young assistant Alex lost count of the number of laps we did but we started around 0940 and did not leave until 1600. There were breaks for lunch and when the Managing Director of the organising comany threw his Audi Quattro into the Armco during the first session. He was alright but they took a long time washing down the track to clean up the petrol.

The bad news is that I forgot to turn on the radiator fan during one run and we overheated. At the end of the day there is reduced compression in #3 and #4 cylinders and I fear that the head gasket has failed. Hence the questions in the supercharger thread about low compression pistons! Major surgery will follow I think.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on October 30, 2009, 01:18:44 pm
Andy, the good new is that it is very quick and easy to change a head gasket on our engines.  :)


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on January 14, 2010, 09:02:18 am
We just got the final results for the 2009 UK ACSMC Sprint Championship.

Baggy Joe was in a class with two others (big class huh?). A 1950cc Westfield and a 1600cc TVR.

To my surprise we came 2nd in Class! beating the TVR!

I now know we had a 1592cc Murena/Solara engine, but hey, that's still smaller than the TVR!

Must do better in 2010!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on March 11, 2010, 08:56:16 am
During last year I purchased four Murena size wheels for a very modest sum from an Irish Forum member in London. My apologies for mislaying his name - put it down to my age! They are 15" x 7J wide but with the Baggy/Murena hole sizes. They are well worn and could do with refurbishment but they were very cheap.

For this year MSA and the local motor clubs have changed the rules for "AutoSolo" events (driving as fast as you can around a course marked out by traffic cones). Always on tarmac, these events are supposed to be intended as "entry level" motorsport and you can enter is your every-day car. Indeed the car must be street legal, taxed, insured and tested if it is old enough. It even must be driven to the event - no trailers allowed.

Baggy Joe is street legal, taxed and tested and AutoSolo events have been a very useful and enjoyable practice and means of learning about the car off the public highway.

The rule changes are intended to bring the event "back to basics" and they say they will insist on regular tyres (no Track Day tyres allowed) and the interior must be complete with the original trim. Fitting back the Matra twin passenger seat is not difficult and I am allowed to keep my FIA driver's seat but the Yokohama A048 sticky tyres must be replaced. So my Irish friend's wheels have come in very handy. Thanks Pal!

But what tyres to fit? With the rims being 2 inches (50mm) bigger diameter the tyres will have to be of the "low profile" type if we are not to have problems with the tyres rubbing on the GRP body and bumpers! After much calculating and research we established that the front should be 195 x 45 15R type which is a little larger than the existing A048 tyres for the front and 205 x 45 15R for the rear (slightly smaller than the A048 rears).

The word on the FDMC Forum was that Toyo have good, near track-day performance, tyres in the "Proxes T1-R" series and they make the sizes we need, and they are still on the "List 1A" schedule in the MSA Competitors handbook for 2010. (The Yokohama A048 tyres are List 1B and therefore banned for AutoSolos. We can still use them for Sprints, Hillclimbs and Track-days however.)

A search on eBay found two front tyres and emails to the supplier in Scotland also found two rears. The total price was about half of what I would pay at the local Toyo dealer. I am sad not to support my local tyre man but half price is hard to ignore. ATS charged £10 each to fit and balance the tyres and we are now ready to roll!*

The wheels look really good and modern - five spoke wheels to me look just right with the Baggy and we have had 5 spoke wheels on Baggy Grey for 18 years. Don't get me wrong, I think the original Matra alloy wheels also look great and I look forward to seeing them, and the Yoko's, back on BJ soon.

* "Rolling" proved to be a problem as the right side front tyre rubbed badly on the bumper! I now know that this is a result of my big contact with a straw bale and signpost on the last Sprint we did back in October. A few hours work with levers and a hammer is straightening out the "elephant ears" behind the headlights and we should be back to "clearance" later today!

Note also the headlights are now fixed to the "elephant ears" to make removal of the nose cone a 5 minute job!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Murena IRL on March 13, 2010, 02:23:23 am

Hi Andy - I'm glad you like the wheels......they look good.

They are speedline replicas (as fitted to Alfa 155's). Offset is ET30 and PCD 4x98 so a good fit for Murena/Bagheera.

Cheers
Derek


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on March 22, 2010, 08:58:16 pm
The first event of 2010 is over and we (Baggy Joe and I) survived very well! In fact if it had not been for the driver we might have done better than 6th in Class (out of 6!).

I put my entry in early and in consequence received the Car Number 1. Nice to see it but I then realised the consequence:- "Historics" are Class A. Number 1 in Class A goes first on each different course layout! Brain turns to jelly as the starter says "3, 2, 1, GO" and I got lost halfway around the course! They red flagged the run because the car behind was catching me. Oh the shame!

In case I have not explained, each AutoSolo course is made up of around 100 traffic cones set out to use every corner of the huge parade ground. That makes up to 30 changes of direction many of them 90 degrees or more. Hit a cone and there is a 10 second penalty. Take the wrong direction and you get "WT" and no time (Maybe it stands for "Wrong Turn" or "Worryingly Thick" just that the driver can't remember a simple route written on one piece of paper). Either way I got three "WTs" on the day. You get three or four runs with each course arrangement so 14 runs in total. Use the first run to find your way around and get faster on runs #2 and #3. The fastest time is used for the result. When there are four runs the fastest two runs are counted. Because of my inability to remember the routes I ended up 6th. But when I look at the individual times for the runs I had a 2nd place, five 4th places and six 6th places. But my grand total time made me 6th overall. Room for improvement - lots!

Baggy Joe went very well and caused lots of interest.

Questions such as:- "You got a supercharger in there (with incredulity)? Is it legal? What will it do? Have you had it mapped properly?

Answers:
- Yes, it's a bit tight but it's in there!
- Yes it is legal. I got the insurance company to write down the modifications I have insured including the blower and the 1600 cc engine.
- I have no idea what it will do yet. It just seems ***** quick!
- "Mapped"? This car has a carb and a distributor. What's to map? It's 33 years old!

The next event is in  mid April - a Sprint at Rushmoor Arena. We will be in with the "Over 2 Litre" class so no prizes expected there. But the track is a road around a grass exhibition arena with longish straights and bends and curves. I hope Baggy Joe's improved power and better road holding will be beneficial. It's only fun after all!

The AutoSolo with the many changes of direction does not let you get out of 2nd gear. I did the first three runs without getting out of 1st gear! And so did many others I found out later. Good fun never-the-less and good value too at 30 pounds. Sprints are twice or three times that cost with much less driving time. But Sprints are high speed motor sport and much more organising and safety equipment. Fire extinguishers, Safety Cage, FIA seats, overalls, helmet and gloves required for this year especially in France. Big boys sport perhaps.

A new picture below of Baggy Joe 2010. It that sexy or what??? The width across the outside of the rear tyres is 1750mm. That's just 25mm narrower than the trailer bed!

Thanks for your support!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on May 17, 2010, 08:59:10 am
Now I know what a 270 degree spin in a Bagheera feels like! Very quick and very disorientating!

At the "Spring AutoSolo" yesterday, on the third run on the (new to me) tarmac course, I braked hard for the last bend before the finish line and executed a perfect spin. Or so they told me after the cheering and clapping died down. There was loose grit on the surface that I hadn't seen on the previous runs.

I had always wondered what would happen if I spun Baggy Joe? Would I hit something? Would the grippy tyres cause it to roll over? Or worse? I did remember to dip the clutch during the spin but much too late and the engine had stalled. It re-started quickly enough and we only lost 12 seconds in the process. 12 seconds is a huge time penalty when the cost of hitting cone is only 10 seconds, but it was an interesting experience. I shall be less scared of doing it again now.

The blower continues to impress both me and the spectators but I was disappointed when one man, keen to supercharge his BMW, said he could not hear the blower from outside the car. Inside it is deafening! One of the pleasures of having the blower on my Vauxhall Viva in 1968/9 was the noise it made! We have not yet properly solved the problem of the grub screws on the blower drive shaft universal joints loosening off in use. Locktite has made it better but I had to tighten them several times in the last few days.

For the first time yesterday I drove Baggy Joe to the event rather than use the trailer. AutoSolos have the rule that competitors' cars MUST be driven to the event and trailers are not allowed to be used. But my wife Charlie uses an electric mobility scooter if she has to walk some distance and the AutoSolo organisers gave her/me a dispensation to allow us to use the trailer to carry both her scooter and Baggy Joe. But yesterday she was not well and, deciding not to come, my excuse was removed. The trouble was that I have got used to being able to chuck everything on the tralier or in the motorhome without worrying too much about weight and "do I really need to take all this kit?" So yesterday I loaded Baggy Joe in the boot and the passenger area with a serious quantity of stuff! The list was large and I won't bore you with it all here. The list included a large tool bag, 1/2" socket set, hydraulic jack, axle stand, compressor and tyre gauge, Gazebo, two chairs, umbrella, shooting stick to sit on (my back is still not good and standing around marshalling for any length of time is torture). Spare clothes, wet weather clothes and towel, boiler suit, spare shoes etc ... the list goes on, not to mention the tarpaulin on which to put all the stuff when you get there as part of scruitineering is to check that you have taken everyting loose out of the car in case it starts to move around while you are competing and distracts you. To my surprise Joe coped very well and apart from the rough access road to the MoD site he didn't "bottom" at all. So that is comforting too!

I was sorry that my "supporter" was not there but I did have the opportunity to talk to the other competitors more than I have done in the past.. Another silver lining I suppose. Hopefully back to normal for Prescott in two weeks. I need to find some time to give Baggy Joe some cosmetic tidying. He is now looking a bit "used" although bares his scars of battle well. However he looks it will be a better paint finish than the "undercoat grey" he wore to Prescott last year!

Go Autosolo motorsport - it's not expensive - and real fun. Try it soon.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on May 21, 2010, 08:17:12 am
One of the photographers at the AutoSolo last Sunday put a message on the FDMC club website offering to supply pictures of your car if you would get in touch with him.

One of the disadvantages of only having one driver is that you never get to see your "pride and joy" in action! Having a photo or two is the next best thing so I sent him a message asking if he had any pictures of my yellow Matra Bagheera.

He replied:-   "I have loads of your Matra, as I think it is one of the coolest cars there! I will have to go through the pictures to see what I have got, but I know I have plenty of yours."

How nice is that? The man whose hobby is taking pictures of interesting competition cars thinks that Baggy Joe "is one of the coolest cars there"!!

In amongst Subaru's, Evo's, Lotus', Westfields and Caterhams, never mind MG's and modern "boy racers", a 33year old Matra Bagheera is "one of the coolest cars there"   Wow!

It made my day, or possibly even made my week!

I'm still smiling!

Pictures will follow!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 21, 2010, 07:47:49 pm
Pictures will follow!

Always enjoying reading about your adventures, I can't wait to see the photos! :D


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on May 28, 2010, 12:55:39 am
Well we are off to Prescott tomorrow and I spent some time today cleaning the paintwork. I'm ashamed to say this is the first time I have made any attempt to clean him up since he was painted in June last year. OK, he has been washed a few times but the driver's door fits badly and water gets onto the FIA driver's seat too easily.

The paintwork is only one coat thick so I was very gentle while rubbing away oil and tar marks from the paint.  "White spirit" was used which took off the oil based marks without dissolving the paint itself. He could do with a coat of polish however! I'm surprised how much better he looks! I didn't think it would make much difference.

I rubbed away the "marks of battle" with some sadness. The two cones I hit during an AutoSolo, and the paintwork damage when I destroyed the hay bale hiding the "keep right" sign by driving through it rather than to the right! I follow the Lewis Hamilton philosophy... "If you don't hit things sometimes and go off occasionally you were not trying  hard enough!". Hopefully the Prescott Armco safety barriers are not listening to me now!

I was tempted to try to paint Baggy Joe to the same high standard to our other Bagheeras but I felt that a beautiful bodywork might intimidate me and prevent me trying hard enough. The odd honourable blemish or scar is not a disgrace in a competition car at least not on an amateur competition car.

I am pleased to see Graham Pryme's Talbot-Matra Murena is number 75 while we are number 76. Our Class has plenty of characters including several Alpine Renaults and my friend's Marcardier CanAM racer. I expect to be last as usual, but it is a great priveledge to compete at Historic Prescott. Spectators are very welcome. Open to the public on both days of course.

I have just had my entry at the Etretat (near Le Havre) Hill Climb in August confirmed. We are entered in "The Two Hills Challenge". Hopefully we shall make it to the start line this year. Ferry tickets are booked too!

Wish us luck on Sunday!

With Best Wishes and thanks for your support!

I can't believe that this thread has been visited over 12,500 times!

Andy and Baggy Joe


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 11, 2010, 01:58:22 pm
Andy wrote, very late on Thursday May 27th, "..Well we are off to Prescott tomorrow..".

Sadly it didn't happen like that!

On Thursday I had fitted a new steel coupling onto the Blower drive shaft in place of the original aluminium version. I had always considered this to be the weakest point of the whole drive system and the component most likely to fail under stress. The aluminium shaft was suffering where the locking grub screws were tightened down. Replacing it seemed a good idea.

While the drive shaft was out there was an opportunity to remove the rocker cover and tighten down the cylinder head now that we have driven a few hundred miles since the new head gasket and "de-compression plate" was fitted in November last year. I was suprised how much the bolts needed to be tightened - typically about 1/2 turn on each bolt. It also means that the valve tappet clearances would have closed up and so these needed checking too. I have used the Gunson "Click-Adjust" device for Baggy tappets for some years now and it was used again and all tappets re-adjusted.

When I came to put him back in the car port he was reluctant to start but I put that down to having taken apart the blower pipework and the need to refill it with flammable mixture. He eventually started and I wrote the previous item for this thread..."Well we are off to Prescott tomorrow". "Famous Last Words" as they say!

Thinking about the problem overnight (as you do!) I wondered what I could have done that might cause the problem. I have not mentioned that I had also had a crisis with a leak in one of the steel water pipes when a 1mm hole suddenly appeared and caused a steam cloud in the engine compartment! I found a spare pipe in the garage and fitted it easily but I wondered if that had caused any overheating?

In the morning I  checked the compression pressures and they were very odd! In psi they were 185/165/167/125. That would certainly explain the problems starting! I jumped to the conclusion that the head gasket had failed due to the water leak and overheating. But I had no spare 1592cc head gasket and the previous one had taken several days to obtain. After asking Mick Ward of the Simca Club if he would bring one to Prescott I found a spare at "Speedy Spares" in Brighton. These are the people who bought the Talbot/Simca spares stock from the former "Grimes" company of Purley in Surrey. I set off for Brighton in high hope.

On the way there I wondered again what I might have done to cause the low compressions? It suddenly occured to me the I had done the tappets! Had I done them right? In the right order and leaving the right gaps?? Incorrect gaps could certainly cause the problem!

to be continued...

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 12, 2010, 09:27:22 am
Continued...

Speedy Spares did indeed have cylinder head gaskets for the 1592cc engine, in fact they had four! I purchased two and set off home again more than ever convinced that the tappets were the problem. This was easily checked by simply slackening off all the tappets and re-testing the compressions. All of them came back to normal around 180psi (normal that is for the low compression head I now have). What a relief - I did not have to change the head gasket after all!

Moral: Don't jump to conclusions!

Many years ago I was going on leave from my ship and the Chief Engineer was doing my end-of-voyage performance appraisal. One of the questions he had to answer was "In an engine room emergency, can Andy make decisions quickly?" He answered: "Yes. Sometimes too quickly". That answer still haunts me 55 years later!

I had set the tappets wrongly, not just in the wrong order but to the wrong clearances! After all these years of doing it!

Get it right, Owler!
First step.. Assume you are going to set the tappets on Cylinder #1. Make sure the valves on Cyl #1 are fully closed before you start. This happens when Cyl #1 is at "Top Dead Centre" on the firing stroke. Because the engine has four cylinders when  Cyl #1 is ready to fire its "partner" cylinder (Cyl #4 on a Bagheera) will have just finished its exhaust stroke and be just starting its inlet stroke. You can see this easily as you turn the engine by looking at the valves on the partner cylinder. When the exhaust has closed and the inlet just starts to move - that is Top Dead Centre for Cyl #1. Set the valves as described below and then rotate the engine by one revolution and do the valves on Cyl #4 (the valves on Cyl #1 will then be changing over from Exhaust to Inlet). Repeat the process for Cyl #2 and Cyl #3.

Except that I had become confused in my haste to get the job done quickly and been looking at the wrong partner cylinder!

 Second step.. Adjust the valve clearances according to the manual. 0.25mm for the inlet valve and 0.30mm for the exhaust valve. The traditional way is to use feeler gauges of the right thickness but I have always found this a fiddely and time consuming task. There is so little space around a Bagheera rocker box! You really need three hands, one for the locking nut spanner, one for the feelers and a third for the Tappet adjusting screw!

Some years ago I discovered the Gunson "Clik-Adjust".
http://www.frost.co.uk/images/datasheets/M560_datasheet.pdf

It is a very clever tool - I wish I had invented it - but the principle is simple..

There is a lever that carries a 12mm socket to fit the tappet lock nut and a central knob with a slot to fit the tappet screw head. The central knob has a "clicker" that operates 30 times for one revolution of the tappet screw. If you know the pitch of the tappet screw thread (Bagheeras have an M7 screw and 1.0mm/rev) you can work out the number of clicks you need for the inlet and exhaust valves. Inlet valve = 0.25mm or 7.5 clicks, exhaust = 0.30mm or 10 clicks.

It works like this...
- Fit the Clik-adjust onto the tappet (make sure the valve is fully closed first, see above)
- Loosen the lock nut by about 1/4 turn
- Tighten the tappet screw until a loud CLICK is heard from the central knob (this takes up all the existing clearance and any wear in the pushrods or rockers)
- Slacken off the tappet screw by the right number of clicks (I use 8 clicks for the inlet valve and 10 for the exhaust valve)
- Tighten the lock nut.
- Job done!

But I had done this simple task wrong as well! And I had been doing it wrong for years! I had been setting the inlet valve to 5 clicks and the exhaust to 7 clicks. I must have made the mistake when I first followed the Gunson instructions for calculating the number of clicks (if you do not know the pitch of the adjusting screw).  My Grey Bagheera had very quiet tappets and I was very proud of that. I now know the clearances were too small!

So a combination of two errors made me set the tappets badly and my old problem of jumping to conclusions gave me a panic attack 24 hours before setting off for Prescott!

But that wasn’t the end of the story! We normally tow our trailer to Prescott behind our 9m 1994 Winnebago motorhome as seven* of us go for the whole weekend and stay in the camping field for three nights. (*Me, Charlie my wife, and five cats). About 1500 on Friday we were all loaded up ready to go, cats in their boxes strapped down on the bed, food and liquids for seven for four days and three nights, spares, tools, manuals and kitty-litter trays and I went to start Winnie to reverse onto Baggy Joe’s trailer to couple up. But Winnie would not start! The starter motor was operating very slowly and making grinding noises! At 2200 that evening we gave up and changed the plan! In the end we used our smaller motorhome and left home very early on Sunday, leaving the cats behind! So my apologies to those who hoped to see Baggy Joe at the Matra stand on the Saturday. We did try our best!

Footnote: Two weeks later and Winnie’s starting problem is still not fixed. The battery cables have been checked, re-terminated and tested. The twin batteries, less than 12 months old, have been charged again, and the starter motor just received back from a check-up with nothing found wrong except some signs of overheating on the armature. Tomorrow we will put all back together and start to look at the engine and automatic gearbox for clues. You can’t push-start a 6.5 tonne RV with a 6.5litre V8 turbo diesel. Starters need to be reliable!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: suffolkpete on June 12, 2010, 11:00:55 pm
Quote
In the end we used our smaller motorhome
  This must be the ultimate in one-upmanship.  A two motorhome family :)


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 16, 2010, 01:10:34 am
Just a bit off-topic but maybe I should explain why we come to have two motorhomes!

My wife, known as Charlie, had a long spell in hospital in 2005. So serious was her condition, when she came out they estimated that she had only a 50% chance of surviving for 6 months. We decided that, as "this is not a rehersal", we had better enjoy what time she had left and we bought an old Winnebago "RV" so that we could take as many short holidays as her health would allow at the same time as having enough space to take her beloved cats (at the time we had six - moggies and pedigree alike). Good care and her own determination blesssed her with being one of the other 50% who do survive and as many of you know she is still very much with us. She has not regained her health as much as she or we would have wished but she enjoys her motorhome holidays whether they be a one day trip to Prescott, a four day trip to Etretat or a 14 day oddesey to Cornwall to see our 2 sisters.

She often needs easy and quick access to "mod-cons" and a bed to rest upon when her old problems recurr so when we go out together our preferred method of transport is by motorhome, even for supermarket trips. At 9metres long and with the width of a truck Winnie is a bit big for your average shopping trip and the problems (and risks) of squeezing him into and out of our back garden considerable. So when it came to wanting regular day-out trips  to MotorSport events coupled with the need to tow a 950kg Bagheera on a 500kg trailer plus a 100kg mobility scooter something bigger that a VW camper was required.

So we purchased a second motorhome based on a Peugeot Boxer van now known as "Sonny" (Son of Winnie and related to Sonny Liston, a Boxer). A mere 19ft long Sonny handles more like the panel van he based upon with very reasonable performance and fuel economy. Filling Winnie makes my wallet hurt! So we finish up as a very fortunate two motorhome family with two pensioners (plus 2x40+ year old "children" and their spouses and currently 5 grandchildren) and now only five cats but still able to take easy and relatively cheap holidays together. We can also compete and marshall at motorsport events and have been known to take one or other of the m/h to the Matra Club events!

If I caused offence by seeming to claim "one-up-man-ship" I sincerely apologise and without reservation. Nothing was further from the truth.

Footnote.. Dodgy earths affect not only GRP Matras but also very heavy duty American RVs! Winnie's starter motor is on the right side of the engine but connected to "earth" via the engine block earth strap on the lefthand chassis rail. The batteries are on the right side of the vehicle and their earths are connected to the righthand chassis rail. After replacing two suspect positive battery cables and still finding no improvement we started checking (again) all the earth points. Making a temporary earth cable directly from the starter mounting bolts to the battery negative posts there was instant starting just like there used to be! But where was the fault? All the earth connections looked OK and had been stripped and cleaned! We found it eventually - The chassis rails are not welded together as I had assumed but bolted! 16 years of exposure to everything the British weather can provide had caused invisible corrosion between the bolted chassis members and a high resistance earth path was the result. A 300A starter current creates quite a large voltdrop and that caused the starter to fail! A bit like a Bagheera really!

Best wishes,

Andy Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: suffolkpete on June 16, 2010, 08:35:09 am
Quote
I sincerely apologise and without reservation.
Likewise :-[


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 16, 2010, 09:04:24 am
suffolkpete wrote...  Likewise..

Thanks!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 20, 2010, 09:52:05 am
Check my posting about an AutoSolo Special offer and join the fun!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 08, 2010, 08:27:18 pm
The FDMC Summer Solo was last Sunday - thanks to Daren and Petra for coming in their Matra Murena-Honda! Maybe they will be competeing next time?

My day had plenty of "events"! I drove Baggy Joe there as Charlie was not well and I could not therefore take Baggy Joe on the trailer (We have a concession that allows me to use the trailer to enable us to bring Charlie's mobility scooter). Baggy Joe did the 35 miles without incident or overheating (just!) but declined to start when I wanted to move to the scruitneering area. The starter appeared to engage, with 30+Amps showing on the meter, but the engine did not turn over. I tried hitting the starter from above but there is just not enough room to give it a decent bang! I asked some other competitors to give me a push to the top of a slight slope in the hope that we could start it on the clutch. The engine rotated but would not fire! Eventually I asked them to stop and gave the starter one more try - and it fired up normally! It also started normally for the rest of the day!

As it started one of the pushers said "You have a leak in the inlet manifold". He had seen oil mist coming out of the flange where the blower pipe joins the inlet box when the engine was reved to the speed where the blower was pressurizing the inlet box. I tightened the four M8 bolts and that seemed to improve the starting.

But it still felt as though there were only three cylinders working during the first four laps of the circuit. Very rough running and a dislike of ticking over. After the four runs and after the engine had cooled down somewhat I took out the plugs having already noticed that #1 plug lead did not seem to be on tightly. It wasn't! But even after I had squeezed the connector the engine was still running badly. When I pulled the plug out it was clear that there was oil escaping from the engine-to-blower pipe system and the plug insulator and plug lead were very oily. The spark electrodes were also oily showing that it had not been firing correctly. With the plug lead, electrodes and insulator cleaned and dried we returned to four cylinders with loads of power under my right foot!

But the engine-to-blower pipework remained an embarrassment. I had used plastic pneumatic fittings a) because I had them, b) because I am familiar with their use and c) I was in a hurry (this pipework was installed last December before the Matra Club UK meeting). Pneumatic pipework is not normally tested for leak tightness - nobody minds if a little air is lost - but when there is oil going through the pipe and oil drips out it is a very different scenario! Especially in competition! And especially when breakage of the pipe or fittings would dump all the engine oil very quickly onto the road and leave me with a dry sump and no oil! So this week I have replaced all the pneumatic pipes and fittings with 5mm bore PTFE / stainless steel wire braided hose and suitable compression fittings. The whole Do-It-Yourself kit cost £55 but that included adaptors for the oil pressure transmitter and warning light switch as well as fitting for me to install the oil control solenoid valve in the future. The assembly of the fittings was a bit tricky at first but all the joints seem to be oil-tight. This is a great relief and I shall not now be in fear of the scruitneers rejecting my entry because of amateur and inappropriate oil pipework.

Now to sort out the starter motor! Another earth problem perhaps. This would make my third in five weeks!

Once again a deadline approaches. We now have an entry for the Debden Sprint on Sunday 11th. It clashes with the British F1 race - not to mention a certain football match in the evening! Now who should I support??

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: suffolkpete on July 10, 2010, 06:00:01 pm
Quote
Now to sort out the starter motor! Another earth problem perhaps. This would make my third in five weeks!
  Or could it have been a jammed starter that was unjammed by your attempts to bump start it?


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on July 12, 2010, 09:51:32 am
Yes, it could have been a jammed starter motor although I did try rocking the car after it had declined to rotate. Vibration while it was being pushed easing off the solenoid is my theory. I always worry when water is spilt while topping up the filler cap and visualise it going straight into the starter motor casing. Having said that, I have never seen rust inside a Baggy starter motor.

I have now fitted a new heavy duty earth lead using a spare bolt hole on the gearbox mounting flange direct to the battery terminal. The rotation seems now to be more "enthusiastic" and it started immediately every time at the Debden Sprint yesterday.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 15, 2010, 09:41:33 am
Victory at the Debden Sprint, July 11th, or how an OAP Rookie got his first trophy (This article was written originally with our local motor club "FDMC" in mind - the first on a Matra they have ever published - so please forgive me repeating things that this expert forum already knows!)

Hoping to score some points in the ACSMC Hamilton Sprint Challenge Baggy Joe (1977 Matra-Simca Bagheera) and I entered the “Borough 19 Motor Club” event at the Debden airfield circuit near Bishops Stortford in July. As members will be aware this car and driver have not been exactly covered in awards since we started competing in May 2009, in fact it would be true to say that we have been very consistently at the end of any class we have entered, whether it be AutoSolos, Sprints or Hill Climbs. “Fun is our objective and glory is not expected”, as I wrote when we embarked upon the restoration of the £200, 33 year old, car in December 2008. I was surprised when we finished 5th out of eight entrants in our own AutoSolo Challenge in 2009 and we would have been 4th if we had entered the last ‘Solo of the season! Turning up on the day does actually help you gain points!

Since the end of the 2009 season we have fitted a “period” Shorrock Supercharger and it makes a dramatic difference to the performance! Power is up nearly 30%. The Bagheera was given very enthusiastic reviews when they were first announced by Matra in 1973 but everyone agreed that the car’s mid-engined layout could handle more power. In response Matra did install a 1442cc engine with dual twin choke Webers in the Series 2 models instead of the previous 1293cc. A still larger engine was available in the form of the 1592cc as fitted in the Talbot Horizon but that was kept for the Bagheera’s successor, the 1981 Murena, after over 44,000 Bagheeras had been built. Only when we took the head off to fit the “de-compression plate” did we find out that Baggy Joe already had the 1.6Litre engine! I thought he was going well! We have owned a 1.4L S2 Bagheera from new in 1978 and are very familiar with its (lack of serious) performance, brilliant although the car is in every other respect.

The snag with supercharging is that the MSA (Motor Sport Association) regs regard any engine fitted with “forced induction” as having a 40% boost in capacity and FDMC and other MSA clubs rightly follow that practice. On top of our 1.6L engine therefore adding 40% gives us a notional capacity of “over 2,000cc”. My entry form to Borough 19 declared both the larger engine and the blower and they then put us into the “Modified, over 2000cc” Class. Difficult to argue with really and we settled with being “in with the big boys”. Hey! This is only for FUN!

On the day we turned up after the 90 minute trip around the M25/M11 ready to do our best. This was only our second 2010 Sprint (the previous one being the FDMC Rushmoor event in the Spring where we came virtually last as usual) and we wanted to put into practice the many things we had learned since the blower was fitted and the 50mm/2” SU carburettor tuned. The Rolling Road session was very helpful but sadly there is no available tuning session to get an extra 30% performance out of the driver!

We are still playing with pressures for the Yokohama A048 “List 1b” sticky tyres but 2.3bar (33psi) seems to be getting close to optimum. Understeer has been reduced to the point of neutrality but getting the new power down on the road is harder. It needs a dollop of courage and skill for the driver and that has not yet been developed. With Baggy being a three seater he is quite wide and I found the Rushmoor roads quite narrow albeit without Armco, unlike the Hill Climb we did at the Bugatti Owner’s Club Prescott Hill in May. Hanging the tail out does not seem to be a good idea when you have very little idea of how it will handle at the limit. Baggy Joe swapped ends so fast at the Borden ‘Solo that I barely remember anything except that the view out of the windscreen was going left to right rather than straight on!

The Debden route included a 180º roundabout and on the last run I decided that I might as well go for it and hit the throttle after the first 90º trusting to the wide run-off area to handle any unexpected excursions. To my amazement the car adopted an opposite lock lurid drift and rocketed out onto the straight! That was good – I must try that again! And I did through the slalom section after the last proper corner! Wow! That WAS FUN!

Helping with the clearing up and checking my time on that last run I thanked the organisers for a really great event and hoped I would see them again next time. “You’re not going are you?” she asked. “Well, yes, we have a long way to go on a Sunday evening”. But we have something for you! You won your Class and we have a trophy for you”. Amazed wasn’t the word! I had assumed, as we were the only entrant in the “Modified, over 2000cc” Class, that we would barely “get a mention”. But true enough, at the prize giving, we won a trophy! I was ridiculously pleased. Entirely out of proportion to being First (and Last) in Class.

Moral: Being a “one off” in Class has merit! Nobody to come second to, no invidious comparisons and maybe a trophy as a memento of the day! I could get to like this!

Keep on developing!

Andy Owler

Picture:
- Our first Trophy



Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 18, 2010, 08:25:37 pm
This message is also on the Marketplace section of the Forum...

I would like to buy two or three Matra Tee-Shirts to wear under my race overalls next weekend at the Etretat (Le Havre) Hill Climb event (Challenge Franco-Britanique.)  Also to wear to the "Reception" at the Benouville Marie on Saturday night (Charlie and I, with all the other competitors, are invited).

I would be happy with 1, 2 or 3 shirts!

They need to have the design in the centre to show while I am wearing the race suit. I remember seeing such a design at Mortefontaine. All the Matra models were represented on the front of the shirt. But I didn't have the need to buy them then. Now I do!

I would prefer the text in French (or English)! Any colour.

The UK Club does not have any. The Matra Passion website does not show any. Any suggestions?

All three Tee-shirts should be XXL or XL.

Round neck shape (no collar) and short sleeves would be ideal.

Hope you can help!

Andy Owler

 


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on August 18, 2010, 10:23:19 pm
I see from time to time some Bagheera T-shirts on ebay. But not currently.

Another possibility would be to contact José (Portugal) who makes the followings : http://www.bagheera-cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=691&hilit=t+shirt (http://www.bagheera-cafe.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=691&hilit=t+shirt)

Or... you use a special transfer paper and an inkjet printer and you make your own.


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 19, 2010, 09:35:42 am
Thanks Spyros. I'll try both ideas!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 20, 2010, 08:21:46 pm
Titus wrote on the Market Place section ... "You could make your own..."

I purchased from Marks and Spencer this morning 4 T-shirts at GBP5.00 each with just that in mind!

The photo from Suffolk Pete I show on the left of this message will be the image plus "Matra-Simca Bagheera S+" in text (just in case nobody knows what they are looking at!)

I'll send a pic to the forum when I have done the first one!

Thanks for the response!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 20, 2010, 08:42:58 pm
I just heard that the organiser of the Etretat Hill Climb event next weekend has invented a new Class just for Baggy Joe! How about that?

As he is no longer a "Standard" Bagheera we are now in the new Class "Prototype Du MSA - capacity illimitee".  Our new race number is # 779.

The only other car in the "Prototype Du MSA" Class is my friend Tony Gomis in his  CanAm Marcardier with a highly tuned Gordini Alpine-Renault engine. His sub-class is "Moins de 2.000cm3". He holds the class record for the hill! Tony is #778

In the next class ""Prototype Du FIA" is Gerard Magro in his gorgeous CG-Simca. He also holds the hill record for his class! His number is #780.

What an honour to run between these two great cars!  I do hope I don't embarrass the Matra Marque.

I wonder if Baggy Joe will be granted a Class Record for the hill??? The thought leaves me quite breathless!

Would anyone be interested in seeing the Entry List? Quite a mixture of manufacturers. Mostly British entrants  I have to say. Why do so few French compete in their own events?

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on September 03, 2010, 10:36:01 am
Etretat was brilliant, including the weather!

First in Class again, and for the same reason! But overall, out of 94 entries, we came 50th! No so bad even though many of those lower down the order were pre-WW2 or even pre-WW1! A real mixture of cars old and even older!

Pictures below include the scrutineering in front of the Mairie, Baggy Joe being dominated by a Vauxhall Viper 1913 with an 11.8 Litre V8! (When he started it I could feel it in my stomach)!.

Waiting in line for my run up the hill showing the variety of cars entered, the CG-Simca driven by Gerard Magro (Hill record holder and FTD this weekend) and a shot taken by Gerard through the wheel of his CG waiting for Baggy Joe to leave the start line.

His Fastest Time of the Day was 53 seconds while my best time was 69.8 seconds. Just a little bit of catching up to do!

Finally a apology to those I accused of stealing my camera last year. I have found it buried below the overcab bed matress in the motorhome where I must have put it last year in the commotion after the differential broke in two. With such a nice crowd how could I have thought such a thing?

The French were very hospitable again, locals and competitors alike. The crowd in the Place de Mairie were very interested in the lone Bagheera and some German tourists gave my (limited) German a workout too.

Looking forward to next year.

Baggy Joe behaved very well with the only maintenance being 25cc of water added to the system.

What we need now is better breathing into and out of the cylinder head. Perhaps a new thread would be appropriate?

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on September 03, 2010, 10:54:37 am
A few more Etretat pictures...


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 05, 2010, 10:41:13 am
Extract from a post in the Murena section of the Forum about the "MECUK Competition Team" at the Debden Sprint on Sunday with the 2.2 Murena of Graham Pryme...

From me...
Thank you for posting the link to the results of the Debden Sprint. Makes interesting reading!

My Bagheera is clearly "outclassed" in my class (Class 9: Modified Limited/Specialist Production Cars over 2000cc) and I think I need to re-open the debate with the regional championship organiser as to which class we should be in.

Even if we were to be in the class I consider appropriate (Class 3: Road-going Series/Specialist Production Cars over 2000cc) along with your 2.2 Murena I would have been 10th out of 12 entries. No competition there then!

Your Murena has the smallest engine in that class anyway with the majority being over 3 litres! My "Baggy Joe" at 1592cc x the 1.4 factor because of the supercharger would be rated at 2223cc. You would still have the smallest engine!

An alternative is to fit an early Bagheera 1293cc engine (1293 x 1.4= 1803cc) and be in the 1401-2000 class and be beaten by a Renault Spider (1998cc) and a Peugeot 405 LeMans 5 door saloon (also 1998cc). At least they are both French!

Good fun!

Andy

"Good fun" it is but it would be nice to be sometimes better than last!

My two practice times (P1 and P2) are better than my 1st timed run because I got over-confident and braked too late for the roundabout and decided to go straight on and make a 270 degree  turn before going around the circle! It had also started to rain (wipers were on "slow") and I had not allowed for the slippery surface. That cost me 9 seconds! The 2nd timed run was in heavy rain (wipers on "fast") and everyone was slower than the first run.

My fellow Class competitors were AWESOME! The MGB with the V8 3.5litre engine was last year's championship winner while the Mazda RX7 had just been fitted with a nearly new Chevrolet Viper/Corvette 5.7Litre V8. Wow! No shame in coming last there then!

You see why I want to be put in a more modest class then?

I tried one of my alternative silencers at the meeting - see the other thread for a test report on 5 silencers (to follow shortly).

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 14, 2010, 11:29:24 am
More Debden pictures and an interesting comparison with the Murena!

Stiffer anti-roll bars would seem to be a good idea?

Comments welcome!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on October 14, 2010, 01:58:56 pm
Stiffer anti-roll bars would seem to be a good idea?

NO!

Anti-roll bars are load transfer devices (am I repeating myself?) - they help transfer load diagonally across the car. e.g. from the outer rear wheel to the front inner. If you start playing with them, you'll be getting oversteer/understeer. Or improve it/make it worse if you have that problem already.

The correct solution is stiffer springs.

Or improve your driving :)

A couple of weeks ago, I watched a beautiful Porsche 904 race a few other cars on a race track in southern Sweden. It battled with a Lotus Cortina and had a hard time keeping up with it. Which makes no sense: We're talking about a Le Mans prototype against a tin top car of roughly same age. The 904 is 600 kg, the Cortina is probably much more! A mid engined car against a front engined. He should have had no problem keeping up with the winning Lotus Elan.

Why?

He did all the corners wrong. He turned in early, breaking all the way through the corner. Here's a photo proving my point:

http://gallery.dinsen.net/v/biler/motorsport/hmsknutstorp2010/DSC_7970b.JPG.html

I can't tell you how to learn racing as I don't do it myself, but I know it takes a lot of practice. Training with a pro might be fun and a good experience too?

You are already having fun! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, experiences and photos, Andy!

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 16, 2010, 10:59:21 am
Roy wrote to Andy (permission was given to include the text here)...

Dear Andy,
I noted your comment on the forum about the amount of roll the Bagheera
is getting into corners.  Actually it is mainly rolling at the front -
the rear does not look too bad.  This is a fault of springs being too
soft for hard cornering in competition mainly.

Before you go fitting thicker front roll bars, do you have a brace
between the tops of the front suspension?  The Bagheera and Murena use
a very similar chassis at the front, and whilst the lower chassis is
quite complete, the top wishbone mountings are on sections that can
flex, probably more on these cars now as they will not be as rigid as
when first built.  It might be good to fit a brace across between the
top mountings, similar to the one in Graham's Murena, if you haven't
already done so.

Regarding the anti-roll bar - depending on what diameter your bar is, a
Murena 2.2 one may be thicker and should fit I think, so may be an easy
upgrade if it is thicker.  The 2.2 certainly has a thicker bar than the
1.6 model.

Since you have lowered the car by adjusting the torsion bars, the front
will be softer as the bar will not have as much wind-up in the static
position.  To retain the strength whilst lowering the suspension it
really needs different rate front torsion bars, but why not add some
small coil-over-shock springs to assist?  The chassis may need some
strengthening though.  Stiffer front shocks may help but they may make
the front more fidgety and any loss of tyre contact over bumps loses
grip so that may not be best.  Adjustable shocks will help find the
best compromise.

Regards,

Roy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 16, 2010, 07:48:10 pm
Roy wrote..do you have a brace between the tops of the front suspension?

The picture shows what I believe is the top suspension brace. The tube that the spare wheel leans against. It also has webs below to brace the sides of the front chassis extensions. Looks fairly solid to me assuming the basic metal is solid too!

I don't think lowering the car, reducing the ground clearence, changes the spring rate. You only do that by changing the diameter. The idea of adding "Coil over shocks" I will examine. If the right size can be found they could replace the existing shockers.

I did not understand that the Murena anti-roll bar was larger than the Bagheera. My Bagheera book only shows one size. I need to measure those fitted on the car. I did find a man who made special anti-roll bars and he may be worth contacting again.

I'm still digesting Ander's message. Driver training sounds a good idea although I don't understand why an anti-roll bar should transfer load to the diagonal corner rather then the other wheel on the same axle.

The suggestion that the front of the car is rolling more than the back puzzles me too! Surely that implies that the chassis is twisting? I don't see that in the pictures either.

Andy




Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on October 16, 2010, 08:44:48 pm
I agree, it's not quite obvious. :)

Let me try to explain.

The anti roll bar does not trafer *load* from the outer wheel (under load) to the inner. In fact it does the opposite - it will try to lift the inner wheel off the ground, fighting against the spring and shock on that side. Of course, the spring is much stronger, so it will still manage to keep the wheel against the ground, but the force is actually reduced.

This reduces the chassis' tendency to roll at that end, but with properly designed suspension, roll is not a problem in itself. It's the shifting of the centre of gravity caused by roll which can cause problems.

However, the chassis will transfer the load to the inner rear wheel to the outer rear wheel, and THIS is why the front anti roll bar is a load transfer device from front to rear, and the rear anti roll bar is from the rear to the front.

As for driving, keeping the car in balance is what drivers say is important. Think of it this way: You are essentially driving a shopping cart. Try turning it around a corner and it will initially resist your turning force. But once it is in motion, it will try to keep on rotating.

A car is the same: After you get off the brakes and start turning, initially the car will fight against your steering. But once you get it rotating, it will try to keep the rate of rotation. Hopefully, by the time you are over the apex, you are going slow enough to have enough grip to get the car pointing forwards again, and by the way, you'll be shifting the COG backwards as soon as you get back on the throttle. With the rear weight bias of the mid engined car, the COG will be closer to the heaviest point of the car, so the rotatinbg inertia of the car will be reduced, making it easier for you to get out of the corner. If you have enough power, that is. But you have ;)

I hope this explains a bit of the dynamics going on in your car while you're taking it through the corners, but as a race car engineering book I once enjoyed reading said at the beginning of each chapter: It's just not that simple! :D

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on October 16, 2010, 08:52:13 pm
The suggestion that the front of the car is rolling more than the back puzzles me too! Surely that implies that the chassis is twisting? I don't see that in the pictures either.

Nonono, it doesn't have to twist. Go to your car and push down one corner and you'll see.


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on October 16, 2010, 09:41:42 pm
Page 116 of my manuel.

Diameter of the torsion bars :
Bagheera 17.2
1100, Rancho : 18
1100 improved suspension : 20.3
Horizon automatic gearbox : 17.6  (the manual gearbox is only 17)
Horizon improved suspension : 19.6
1307/1308 : 19
1307/1308 improved suspension : 20.9
1309 automatic gearbox : 19.5

About the top suspension brace, the comment was directed to the Murena who is lacking the very heavy brace of the Bagheera.

Now, don't forget : 1307... Solara torsion bars are longer than the Bagheera ones and requieres some modification to your car.

The number I gave are the Bagheera serie II
The first ones had 17.5 mm diameter torsion bars

It's the reverse that what they did for the rear torsion bars (ticker on the serie 2 than the serie 1)

There is also a difference in the antiroll bar but it seems that you are pointed to the torsion bar

I hope this can help


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 17, 2010, 01:19:07 pm
Anders wrote... It's just not that simple!

Yes, I see what you mean.

Maybe I should find that "Suspension for racing cars" book I bought when we started on this project. "Doing it" was so much more interesting than "reading about it"!

My suspension knowledge, such as it is, was learned from the articles in "CAR" magazine by L.J.K. Setright. Sadly he is no longer around to ask!

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 17, 2010, 01:28:45 pm
Spyros wrote... Diameter of the torsion bars :

These are the torsion bars, not the anti-roll bars?

Using a thicker torsion bar will make the suspension stiffer i.e. less wheel deflection for a particular load. That would seem to be a good idea since, having lowered the car, it must have less deflection available. We fitted "tell-tales" on the rear shock absorbers for the Mallory Park track day and could see that we were using all the suspension travel, i.e. it was "bottoming" at the rear. We didn't check the front but that may be bottoming too. So fitting the Simca 1100 or Improved Horizon front torsion bars is worth a try?

What can we do about the rear torsion bars? This is a Series II so we must already have the thicker torsion bars.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Spyros on October 17, 2010, 02:27:00 pm
On the rear, you won't find any ticker torsion bars than the one you have.
New ones will probably be stiffer but not a lot.

So the only option at the rear would be to fit coil over dampers.
But I would first try Rancho front torsion bars.

This is an idea I have in mind since a long time.

Or you can have custom torsion bars or anti roll bar made but who can do that ?


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on October 17, 2010, 07:12:29 pm
Spyros wrote... Or you can have custom torsion bars or anti-roll bars made but who can do that ?

Last year I did find a company in the UK Midlands who were able to make custom torsion and anti-roll bars. I have it written down in the files somewhere. All he needed was an example of the old one to copy.

Andy


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on November 05, 2010, 09:40:37 pm
MSA UK Sprint Championship, Southern Region, 2010

I have just seen the results for the Championship for 2010.
There were six entries in the "Modified Production Car" Class, over 2litres*. They were:-

Name                Car                           cc            Points
Steve Cox   TVR V8S 500   4997   40.0
Alastair Flack   Triumph TR7 V8   3500   10.0
Kevin Salisbury   Ford Sierra Cosworth 1993   12.0
Geoffrey Martin   Ford Escort   2300   -
Andy Owler   Matra Bagheera S   1592   20.0
Jason Easton   Ford Sierra 4x4   2933   -

That seems to make a Matra Bagheera 2nd in Class!

* We are in this class because
a) the Supercharger attracts a penalty of 40% extra capacity giving us a notional capacity of 2229cc and
b) Matra did not produce a supercharged Bagheera and therefore this is a "modified" car  rather than just "tuned".

If I had done two more events** this year and marshalled at least once I would have had 45 points and therefore first in Class! Somethng to aim at for next year!

** I had entered two more events (Sprint Royale and Lydden) but had to withdraw from both as "Charlie" (my wife) was in hospital. She is now back home again and making good progress. We hope for better things in 2011!

Thanks for all your support and interest.

Andy and Charmian Owler


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: suffolkpete on November 06, 2010, 10:29:48 am
Congratulations Andy!  That's quite impressive, considering the competition.  I'm sure your huge band of followers on this forum will wish you well next season.


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: Anders Dinsen on November 07, 2010, 07:34:16 am
Big cheers from me too, Andy!!!  :D
Very well done, indeed!

I'm sending good wishes for Charlies recovery!

/Anders


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on December 25, 2010, 09:58:28 am
Merry Christmas to all our Matristi friends everywhwere!

May your best presents be motoring ones!

I've been absent from the Forum for over two months while my wife Charlie has been in and out of hospital (five times!). She is home now and has been so for nearly three weeks (on Monday). This is progress!

My only driving has been to/from hospital and latterly in the snow and ice by means of our 1994 Jeep Wrangler! The novelty of 4x4 is wearing off and now the days are getting longer thoughts turn to Spring and larger superchargers!

We are just starting to make a template to see how we can mount the Wade R020 twin lobe (Roots type) blower on the Bagheera inlet manifold. Wood now, aluminium next!

My Christmas present from Charlie is my 2011 MSA Competition licence!

Happy New Year too!

Andy and Charlie


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on June 02, 2011, 10:30:06 pm
Dear Friends and Supporters,

Just to complete this topic, I need to tell you that I crashed Baggy Joe into the Armco safety fence just after the Finish line at the Crystal Palace Sprint on Monday this week. I was unhurt but the front of Baggy Joe is quite damaged but very repairable.

I will start a new topic entitled "Baggy Crashed" as this seems to be the second phase of his life as a competition car.

Since Charlie died we have done Sprints at Rushmoor (1st in Class, correctly), Goodwood (1st in Class in error) and Crystal Palace (crashed after the finish but going quickly!) Also Hill Climbs at Wiscombe, near Seaton in Devon, (we entered four separate events over two weeks to try and learn the hill properly) and Prescott "La Vie en Bleu" the day before Crystal Palace.

Thanks for all your interest and support. Over 20,000 visits to this topic is amazing!

Andy Owler
Baggy Joe, 1592cc with a Shorrock Supercharger


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: GP on June 02, 2011, 11:20:35 pm
Get well soon please Baggy Joe. We are missing you already!

GP


Title: Re: Bagheera Roll Cage wanted
Post by: andyowl on August 15, 2011, 08:49:29 pm
In case you do not see it, I have started a new topic today, Monday August 15th, called "Baggy Repaired".

See you there!

Andy Owler