MatraSport Forum

With as much trouble as Matra went through to galvanize the chassis, one wonders why they skimped on some of the exposed parts.

Last weekend Jan and I took of the damaged front from my 2.2. The previous owner had just attached it with red strips after a halfa#%ed job of fiberglass repair. I fixed the front with new fiberglass mats and epoxy over the cracks and holes that were left.

But that was not what got me wondering. Looking at the radiator and the plates that surround its sides and bottom, I found that they had corroded severely. (photos below) Jan had told me they would be and made stainless steel replacements that we polished, cut to fit and drilled for mounting holes. Under the hood opposite the fuse box there is also a plate that corrodes, it too was replaced with stainless steel. That one takes some fitting due to the bulge of the heater blower protruding from the firewall. (see photo)

Everything was mounted with pop riviets or stainless steel screws (that were polished of course 8)). If we continue on this route, there won't be many places that can rust on our Murenas.

As you may notice, while we were at it the bar for the frog-eye lights was wire brushed and coated with Hammerite. The baerings for the bar wer cleaned with Simply Green in a ultrasound bath and relubricated with silicon grease. The horns were wire brushed and coated with Hammerite too. Not shown, the brackets that hold the front on each side of the fenders, were left in Phosphoric acid over night and then coated with Hammerite and baked in an oven till dry, as were the stays that support the fenderwell and attach to the frame. The trunk latch and locking mechanism, got the Phosphoric acid treatment too, and will be coated this weekend, as we were running out of time.

This is more fun than a guy should be allowed to have ;D

Quite simple - cost.  It was relatively simple to put a complete chassis into the hot zinc to galvanise the whole structure once they had decided to use that method of protection, but to do all the ancillary parts would have been a lot more trouble and expense.  They were not worried about long term corrosion of these other bits, as they can be replaced, knowing the main frame was at least sound.

Roy

Congratulations!  The pictures look really nice and give me some inspiration to do similar work on mine.  I am in the process of cleaning up in the same area.  Did you replace the panel underneath with stainless - the one in the first picture?  It looks difficult to fabricate because of the strengthening ribs that have been stamped into it.

You are profiting from working with the Jan, the perfectionist :) It looks really good!

Jan and I have been friends for more than fourty years and one reason we get along so well is that we are both perfectionists.  ;) We inspire eachother with ideas and our different areas of expertice and skils. We also both live by "don't throw that thing away, you never know when it may come in handy"  ;D

I am going to visit him today for some more perfectionist work. I think it will end up as a "So ein ding......"  :o More on that later.

Well, got back earlier from Jan. He and I made some signs with a gadget that he had borrowed from work. You print on a plastic tape in a process that perforates the tape with hundreds of microscopic holes. If you then tape this print onto a metal sign, lay it on a conducting surface that is hooked to a transformer, then, with the other lead from the transformer connected to a handle with a graphite block attached and covered with a sponge, dip the sponge in a liquid and touch it to the tape. Whatever you print is then etched into the sign. See the photo below, showing the polished stainless steel sign with the car model and the name of the guy who designed it, Antonis Volanis. These are now mounted in the notch on each of our door sils. (both sides)  8)

We have also made a sign to go on the rack and pinion housing. (blurredphoto , I'll take another one tomorrow)

It is too much fun. But some of it more practical. Like taking off the front again to mount the cover under the hood locking mechanism. It had been steeped in phosphoric acid and painted with Hammerite. While I had the front off I took a photo of the left bracket and stay, that holds the fender and front. It has received the same treatment as the cover.

Yes, it is stainless steel. But don't worry about making strengthening ribs. A 1mm thick stainless steel plate is plenty strong on its own with the bend down the middle, from side to side. On mine the front of the bracket rests up on the underside of the fiberglass front. The original rubber seal that was on that edge on the old plate was transferred to the new plate. (after the photo was taken)

Pardon me for not knowing.... But why put the parts in phosphoric acid....?

(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7080/hgsmalloc0.jpg)
Posphor acid is used to derust.
It turns rust in to magnetiet (Fe3o4) and close in deeper rust.
See the black spots in the pic after treatment.
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2267/primer3qu7.jpg)
Nice advantage of the stuff is that it also etch galvanised material so paint wil have a better grip on it.
After the treatment you clean with water and let it dry.
Then you put primer on, and you have a good anti rust protection.
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7119/primer4ka7.jpg)
You can also use Fertan, wich is more expencive, and has some primer and dopes mixed in it.

Since it is such a wondercure for rust, what would happen if it was used for electrolyscleaning....?

I wouldn't mix this types of derusting.
Electrolyse wil loosen the magnetiet, so it will be of no use to do it.
Electrolyse is fine for small things (personally I use the posphor acid for small things to), but for the car itself it is not practical.
You need a swimming pool and lots of power ;D

where can I get this stuff?  :)

You can find it here.
http://www.homecareessentials.co.uk/acatalog/Rust_Remover.html
If you gonna use it, do it as I describe.
Get of most rust the usual way first.
Make the object wet and put it on.
Leave it for 1-2 days to do its work.
Wash it of with a spons and plenty water.
Let it dry, and I mean realy dry.
Put on primer and after that is dry, put on paint of choice.

Most oldtimerfreaks over here use this, and is proven to be very good.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FERTAN-ROSTUMWANDLER-ROSTKONVERTER-ROSTSCHUTZ-1-LITER_W0QQitemZ150302251729QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpezielle_Werkzeuge?hash=item150302251729&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Its the same stuff with some dopes.
Works about the same, but has a extra protective layer in one go.
This is one of the better ways to protect youre car, espacially if it is galvanised.

Jan and I continue to have fun replacing old rusty metal parts. :D This weekend I visited Jan and worked on a new frame for the fusebox. Jan had cut it out and made the bends along the cutout for the fusebox. I finished it by bending the flanges and drilling the mounting holes. You have to have the old frame from your paricular car to measure from, in order to make sure the holes fit for mounting.

Removing the old frame can be a bit tricky, because the pop rivet closest to the fender and firewall cannot easily be drilled out. I suspect that Talbot mounted the fusebox frame to the fiberglass before this was mounted on the car. There simply is no way they could get a riveting tool down there and get a right angle on the rivet. For the same reason it is difficult to drill out. An option is a Dremel hobby tool with a grinder which you can use to file the top off the rivet.

When mounting the new frame, there also is no room to get a screw installed down there. But since the new stainless frame is much stiffer, I chose to place a screw in the middle and the original top positions. Plenty strong. The photos show the old and new frames side by side and the new one mounted in the car. The mounted one is in Jans car and the one in my car looks identical.

Oh, and of course the job would not be up to our perfectionist standards without a stainless steel lid on the fusebox itself.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Mounting the stainless frame we chose self tapping screws. The mounting holes for the fusebox were fittet with 5mm pop nuts and fastned with unbraco machine screws. Polishing the stainless steel can be dangerous. I was wearing leather work gloves and had a firm grip on the frame. Still, twice I got the polishing wheel too close to one of the edges and the frame got yanked out of my hands. Without the gloves I would have been cut.  >:(

Looking good!

Are u able to make anymore? I am sure some of us here would be interested.

I thought I had answered this. Sorry. :-[
My friend Jan is the one who have the cut. I don't know if he can have more made, but I will ask him and also get him to post the drawing. That way you can have them cut at a metal shop.

They are nasty to bend due to the flap that sort of sticks out in front. That prevents them from being bent in a normal sheet metal bending rig. You have to use some appropriately sized steel blocks and a large bench vice, a rubber mallet and parience.  ;)

Speaking of posting drawings. I made drawings of the Gastank straps and the air filter straps and am posting it here, if you want to make your own. Jan and I will try to make them in stainless steel. Jan has already done that with the gas tank.

The effort to replace rusting parts on mine and my friend Jan's Murenas continue. The latest addition is the stay that holds up the bonnet. It is now made from an 8mm stainless steel rod. Not an easy task that material is hard to bend.

Also the grove that locks it into place in the nylon bushing at the bottom, is best made by turning it on a lathe. Not having a lathe, I used a cordless drill to turn it, stuck the other end through a ball bearing, with a bit of rubber hose and plastic tape. fastened the ballbearing in the bench vice and clamped the drill switch on. Presto, a poor mans lathe. (photo) With a file i got the grove just right.

Next, I made a jig consisting of two 3/8" socket extenders in a vice, with a deep socket over the ends, to keep them from spreading out under the strain.

Then I heated the steel to a bright pink, put it in the jig and bent the bottom end first. The top end is a bit more challenging, partly because the bend at the tip was tighteer than the jig would allow. I therefore placed in a grove on hte vice and beat it into submission with a hammer.

The last steps were removal of any marks with a fine file, sanding with a 220 grain cloth, followed by a 400 grain cloth and last polishing it with a buffing wheel on the bench grinder with polishing wax.

Sweet.  ;D ;D ;D

PS. The last photo is from under the bonnet before the stainless work started and before the brake servo and other parts were wire brushed and painted.

In the continuing process of elliminating parts that rust, I replaced the tank straps last weekend.

Jan provided some strips of stainless steel, stainles tubing and stainless angle brackets. Bracket edges were milled on Jan's new toy (surplus from his company ;D ) a grove was cut in the tubing and silver soldered onto one end of the strap. At the other end 4 holes were punched and the strap was spot welded onto the angle bracket. Everything was polished and it was mounted on the car with new 8mm stainles bolts. (forgot to take a picture of that  >:( but will add later)

As you can see the old straps were a bit rusty and a previous owner had repaired the long strap with a strip of galvanized iron sheet, and it was about 2" too short, requiring a 4" bolt holding the straps together.

This weekend we will make new straps for the air filter. The parts have been cut, but need to be assembled.

Very Nice!

With the holiday we had Friday, I spent 3 days in Jan's garrage working on parts for my Murena.

Last weekend I decided to adjust the fit of the left side frog-eye. The cover was not lining up properly with the fender and the hood. When I tried to unscrew the bolts, holding the hinge to the inner fender, the very first one snapped. I had even wire brushed it and soaked it in penetrating oil, but it still snapped. >:(

So this weenend the lights had to come off and new bolts fitted. Well, that is not so easy. Snapping all the bolts was no problem  ;D, but the bolts in the hinge are carriage bolts that are spotwelded to the hinge. They cannot just be removed.  >:(

Fortunately Jan has that new toy, an industrial metal router. So I fixed each hinge in the vice and milled the head off the bolts, flush with the surface of the hinge. Then it was simply knocking the remains of the bolt out with a punch. I next drilled the hole a bit larger to 8 mm and filed it to a square, that fit new 8 mm stainless carriage bolts.

But in worse shape were all the shims under the hinge. It turned out that the reason the light was not aligned, was that rust had swelled their combined thickness by 1/4". That had pulled the plate inside the wheel well completely out of shape and lifted the hinge. :o

I therefore had to make new shims. This new batch are of course in 1 mm stainless steel. I have posted some pictures of the fabrication. Now that it is assembled again, the lights are lined up correctly with the hood and the fenders. :D

After that success Jan asked if it was not time to replace the rusty handbrake cable. Picking up that challenge  ;D I unscrewed the handbrake cable assembly and all the brackets holding the outer cable guides.

After measuring the length I cut a corresponding length of 4 mm stainless steel aircraft quality cable. Jan had turned a couple of stainless steel end-plugs to be silver soldered onto the ends. While I re-assembled the cable harness, the brackets were soaking in phosphoric acid to remove the rust. After cleaning and repainting with Hammerite, they were mounted back onto the car, but this time with stainless bolts.

The handbrake cable is working again, but I sure wish I had had new outer cable guides. The coil inside the old ones are prerry rusty too.

Do any of you know if they can be bought seperately?