MatraSport Forum

Hi All,

My Murena sits lower on drivers side than passenger side.

Is that from the road camber - driving a LHD car on left hand side of road (close to kerb)?

Will new springs correct this? It was the same on my previous Murena also.

Thanks
Derek

First of all You can try adjust the torsion bars - make it higher on drivers side.

Here's a picture

I have had the same problem on mine. Even same side! ;) The problem is not the front, but the rear - springs need replacement.

Simon offers a set on eBay for a very reasonable price. Check your lower spring retainers, mine turned out to look like this:

(http://gallery.dinsen.net/d/10338-2/DSC_9017.JPG)

/Anders

Measure the ride hight front and rear as described in the workshop manual.
You can adjust the hight of the front by tightening/loosening the the torsion bars.. but if the rear is uneven... yes.. Id say you need new springs...

Hi Derek. Are you sure it is not an optical illusion? When I look at your picture and compare the roof of the car, to the horizontal part of the window frame behind it, then it looks perfectly level.

If you measure the clearance under the side skirts while on level road, is there a difference? If the car really is lower on the drivers side it could be time to go on that diet.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I thought that the Murena was like this as standard, i'm pretty sure mine does the same and has done for years?

I agree with David, I thought this was a 'feature'!

Mine sits like that, same side too.

Hi Anders - do you have a photo of your Murena sitting on new springs. (and if possible how it sat on old springs)?.

 

Yes it is partly from driving the car on the left when it was designed to run on the right on French cambered roads.  My Murena was like this from new and the other two I have owned were the same.  The 1983 car seemed to lean slightly less but all the cars pulled or more correctly steered very slightly to the left too, and yet when I checked, all the suspension angles were correct.  However, as soon as I drove the cars in France, on the right hand side of the road, they drove as straight as a die.  I could even take my hands off the wheel at 80 mph and they were perfect.  Try that in the U.K. and it would drive into the kerb!

Obviously as the springs get tired with age they can sag and each one could be different, so you might expect a difference side to side, and since the driver sits more offset from the centre line in these cars, and the car would be driven more with only the driver, it is more likely to drop more on the left.

You can correct this to some extent by adjusting the front torsion bars, which is fairly easy to do.  I did this with my silver car, taking the opportunity to lower the front slightly at the same time.  It now sits almost level even with me in it.  Yes, adjusting the front torsion bars will modify the rear ride heights too.

You should also check the rear spring seats as these are known to corrode, but I doubt it will be these.  If one of these gives way the car would drop noticeably and be noisy if you drove it.

Roy

It would be nice if somebody had the dimensions of the rear springs... 

That's why we say that in GB you are using a wrong side of the road  ;D  :D ;)

Don't start...

It was a joke, but if You are sensitive for this, than I'm sorry...  ;)

Well on on the murenas... at least the steering wheel is still in the right place :P

I'm afraid no. Well this one is with the old springs:
http://gallery.dinsen.net/v/biler/Matra/DSC_2000.JPG.html

But the only correct way to check this is to remove the springs and compare them. Or just buy a new set - they are so cheap from Simon now:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120425535413

/Anders

A solution is to switch the springs left to right and right to left.
After some time it will level, and the car is lowered at the back for free ;D

 :D Oetker, this is the smartest solution ever!  :D

Having looked at some of the photographs, I must have the offroad version! Unfortunately I do not have a real side on shot of the car but you can see from this picture there is loads of clearance between the wheel arch and the top of the tyre.

John

That's quite common iwht the 1.6'es - Lennart has gone through a lot of trouble fixing this, but the end result is good and his car is now finally and for the first time in its life sitting correctly on the rear springs :) The issue is, apparantly, that Matra started to fit 2.2 springs on the late 1.6 models for some reason. Perhaps they ran out of the correct ones? Who knows.

I think he has a photo of the installation somewhere, but here's one where you can see how it sits now at least (and where it's being inspected by the professionals ;D ):

http://www.sorth.dk/p/20090523/Med/20090523_153311.html

/Anders

That is more like it, I would say that the clearance is half the amount that my car has. I will have to look further into the problem; anything to give me a break from bodywork!

Thanks
John

Just measured the ride height of my 1.6 and it's 66cm both sides from the floor to the top of the wheel arch, on 185/70 x 13 tyres.  I must say I don't go for this mania for lowering cars, for normal road use.  There is a real risk of grounding on speed humps nd ramps and I'd never get my trolley jack underneath it.

Hi Suffolkpete, when I get my wheels back on I will have a measure, please don't expect an early reply!

Have you removed the rubbers off your bumpers?

Regards
John

The measurement was for your information, I'm happy with my car the way it is.  The previous owner removed the rubbers, apart from two short strips in front of the headlamp pods.  I think I would have preferred the original setup, but the parts are hard to come by and it's not high on my priorities.

My 1983 1.6 was also the 'off roader' spec when I got it. Sitting far too high at the rear in my opinion. There was a clearance of 9cm from the top of the rear tyre to the bottom centre of the bodywork arch. See first picture.

My thinking in replacing the suspension with the Spax Sport Kit supplied by Simon was to make the wheels fit the bodywork and not to go on and install blue neon underlighting  :D Also the parts needed replacing anyway. This is the same kit as Lennart pioneered on this forum. If Will at Matra Magic had listed these parts in his site under the correct heading I would have sourced them from him at a considerable saving to the price I paid Simon. Worth checking out if anybody is considering this.

The following measurements are from the floor to the bottom of the centre point in the bodywork wheel arch. Some may think that the bodywork is not to be relied upon but it gives a good indication of how much the car was dropped by.

Original measurements: Front Left (drivers side) 60.6cm
                                       Front Right 60.2cm
                                       Rear Left 65.6cm
                                       Rear Right 65.6cm (suprisingly the same)


New measurements    : Front (both) 58cm
                                      Rear (both) 61.8cm

Dropping the rear by about 4cm. The car also sits level.

The front was lowered on the torsion bars to almost their limit.

I need to post again as the input page keeps dropping down out of view (Lennart help please!)

So to continue...

The second photo is how the car is now. Unlike it came out of Romorantin :)

The distance from floor to centre of the front spoiler is 16cm. It is low and have had the odd mishap with grazing the tow points on speed humps when forgetting to slow it down. Car park kerbs and the like also need to be watched out for when pulling up to them :P :P :P

Roy suggest that the front should be 18.5cm and not 15.8cm (16cm in my case). The original printed spec says 15.8cm which he thinks was a missprint. I could stand corrected however.

The final photo is of mine and Lennarts cars. Notice that Lennarts sits higher at the front (October 08).

I think the car looks better at the new height and may even handle slightly better.

A matraguru from Belgium told me the best height on the front.
If you can put 2 fingers between the top of the tire and the wheelarch you have the best point.
Not very scientific, but I have to believe him, becaus he is involved with Murena's since the 80s, and repaired and fixed dozens of them.

indeed, - if anything my car is now a bit too low in the front due to torsion bar fatigue - will have
to give them a notch upwards some day.

I think Matra either used 2.2 chassis parts or possibly springs - most 1983 1.6 Murenas I have seen, have been sitting 2cm too high at the rear (where "spot on" means the wheel is centered in the wheel arc, as it is on 2.2 Murenas).

The car feels noticably different since the tail came down - obviously because the geometry now is how it was designed. Before you had a slight feeling of the car skidding *over* undulations in the road - now it just whacks the wheel around the surface and grips better.


Right here:
  http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Conv/P1.9i-8v-ls/20080706/index.html

After cleaning my brakes today (to make them stop howling - not squealing under braking, but whooohooo'ing along after braking) I took the car for a test drive, and since the howling had disappeared, I could fully enjoy a nearby nice roundabout in the middle of a derelict forest area ...  it just sucks to the ground, and all power goes to the ground - except for the part that goes straight into the drivers grin :-)

That 26 year old car, never stops entertaining me.

/Lennart

I was going to go ahead any buy a set of rear springs for my Murena, think they are still on the originals so no harm replacing and Simon had them at 40 Euros on ebay.de when I last looked last year.

Cant find them now though and just checked his website, he has lowering springs for a whacky 300 euros for 2!

Anyone know where u can get the rear springs or what they are shared with?

Thanks
Derek

Hi,

visit carjoy.nl

Item nr. 12015.
Price 68.10Euros excl VAT.
A bit cheaper...

Hi Derek,

May have a set of old second hand springs if you get really desperate?
Don't know if they have sagged much over the years, but the engine was out of the car most the time.

GP

If playing with ride heights of your car there is actually some theory behind what you are doing to the car and why it may handle better or worse?

Read the following for more information if interested:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/understanding-corner-weights/

GP

Sometimes it's better to forget all theoretic  story's and make a set-up that you feel as good.
You need a day at a circuit, because on open road it's a not done :P
Because of use different materials (tires/springs) advice is difficult to get.
My experience so far is the more wedge the better.
I don't want the car to high at the rear, but driving is better if it is higher at the back.
I still need a harder compound tire at the back for best perfomance, but I am almost satisfied with roadhandling for open road.

Thanks Graham.

My Murena on a roundabout for example with the weight on the drivers side of the car does feel to lean alot  more (alot more that it should IMO) than when I exit the roundabout with weight moved to passenger side.

I thought the springs could be shot after 30 years but will also have a good look at the trailing arms again. However, it just passed its MOT last month.

Hi Derek,

You had better take the springs off and measure their lengths to start with, which would give a reasonable indication. If you know someone with a Coil Spring Tester even better.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motorsport/Chassis_Set_Up_Equipment/Testing_Equipment/Intercomp_Coil_Spring_Tester/1241/0/15506

Brand new ones would probably be the answer to be certain though.

Cheers,

Graham

Quote
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I was going to go ahead any buy a set of rear springs for my Murena, think they are still on the originals so no harm replacing and Simon had them at 40 Euros on ebay.de when I last looked last year
=============================================================================================================

a few months ago I bought 2 sets.
Maybe a call to Simon can help.
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9161/p1030226xp.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/p1030226xp.jpg/)

1 set is build im my car and 1 set we build in a 1.6 with Spax.
This 1.6 car has 2.2 springs with Spax now and made a lot of progress because of that.
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4031/p1030253medium.jpg)