Title: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: Sommerby on December 28, 2009, 12:20:10 am
I have a very annoying "Clonck" noise which appears to be located around the front right shockabsorber upper mounting. The noise appears when I drive on a rough road. I changed all 4 springs in the early summer and the noise started a few months after the replacement and has now reach a level where I need to solve the problem.
I have checked the 3 upper mounting bolts and they are all OK, but it seems that the shock absorber is not centered 100% and there is little space between the "top steel disk" on the shockabsorber and the mounting hole in the car body. Could it be the steeldisk rubbing against the car body? In case that this should be the problem I guess that I must buy renew the "rubber parts" which centers the shockabsorber in the top mounting?
My second guess would be that the spring is not placed correct into the upper mounting part?
I replace the "shockabsorber bearings" when I replace the springs, so they are OK.
What do you guys think? Do you have a better guess on what could cause the noise?
Best Regards and a happy newyear to all of you :)
I have checked the 3 upper mounting bolts and they are all OK, but it seems that the shock absorber is not centered 100% and there is little space between the "top steel disk" on the shockabsorber and the mounting hole in the car body. Could it be the steeldisk rubbing against the car body? In case that this should be the problem I guess that I must buy renew the "rubber parts" which centers the shockabsorber in the top mounting?
My second guess would be that the spring is not placed correct into the upper mounting part?
I replace the "shockabsorber bearings" when I replace the springs, so they are OK.
What do you guys think? Do you have a better guess on what could cause the noise?
Best Regards and a happy newyear to all of you :)
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: Trolkar on January 11, 2010, 08:45:22 am
I have the same sound in my car!
Therefore, any advice would be great! - All though my noise started after replacement of the timing belt. - I maybe suspect a mounting issue on the engine. - The sound is only from the right side...
Have you tried (while holding still) to turn the wheels all to the left, and slowly turn to the right? - at some point, almost when fully turned to the right a similar sound is heard in my car.
Therefore, any advice would be great! - All though my noise started after replacement of the timing belt. - I maybe suspect a mounting issue on the engine. - The sound is only from the right side...
Have you tried (while holding still) to turn the wheels all to the left, and slowly turn to the right? - at some point, almost when fully turned to the right a similar sound is heard in my car.
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: renaultbiler on January 11, 2010, 02:39:14 pm
There is a complete upper mounting kit available, it happends that this collapses hense the clacking sound. If klacking when turning wheel i would check the bearing between spring and shock absorber.
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: Sommerby on January 13, 2010, 04:28:33 pm
There is a complete upper mounting kit available, it happends that this collapses hense the clacking sound. If klacking when turning wheel i would check the bearing between spring and shock absorber.
This sounds interesting. Do you know more about the upper mounting kit? Which parts are included? Part Number? Approx costs?
Best Regards
Bo
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: renaultbiler on January 13, 2010, 07:41:03 pm
Havent looked up the genuine part no but SKF supplies one: SKF VKDA 35620T
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: Anders Dinsen on January 13, 2010, 11:02:30 pm
Interesting... Is the bearing sitting in the top one? Are these parts coming with the bearing or replaced individually?
I had my garage exchange the top bearings a few years ago, so they should be perfect, but the rubber parts may be gone now. And the knocking sound I'm experiencing went away after I lifted the wheel off the ground and moved the spring a bit around to check it for cracks, so it seems to be linked to something being a bit loose. I checked the spring because I had been told by someone that springs with one of the ends broken off could cause the same problem.
/Anders
I had my garage exchange the top bearings a few years ago, so they should be perfect, but the rubber parts may be gone now. And the knocking sound I'm experiencing went away after I lifted the wheel off the ground and moved the spring a bit around to check it for cracks, so it seems to be linked to something being a bit loose. I checked the spring because I had been told by someone that springs with one of the ends broken off could cause the same problem.
/Anders
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: jack daniels on January 18, 2010, 12:23:25 pm
There is only one bearing and that's the smaller item in the photo which sits under the spring.
The races look like they're pressed out of sheet metal so they are not exactly built for nordic winters. The top part is a sandwhich affair, and allthough my old ones looked like new visually they created an awful lot of klunking and banging before they were replaced with the SKF kit. The kit includes the 4 items shown for about 100euro. I'd throw in a couple of new shock absorber boots too (KYB) since the old ones seem to have lost their flexibility
The shock absorber piston dosn't rotate since it's fixed to the upper sandwhich mount, the shock's outer tube rotates around the piston when steering.
just yesterday I had to tighten the nut on the top of the left shock after a rattling sound developed. I think I'll put a second lock nut on there next time I change coupe filters.
The races look like they're pressed out of sheet metal so they are not exactly built for nordic winters. The top part is a sandwhich affair, and allthough my old ones looked like new visually they created an awful lot of klunking and banging before they were replaced with the SKF kit. The kit includes the 4 items shown for about 100euro. I'd throw in a couple of new shock absorber boots too (KYB) since the old ones seem to have lost their flexibility
The shock absorber piston dosn't rotate since it's fixed to the upper sandwhich mount, the shock's outer tube rotates around the piston when steering.
just yesterday I had to tighten the nut on the top of the left shock after a rattling sound developed. I think I'll put a second lock nut on there next time I change coupe filters.
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: colin4255 on February 15, 2010, 09:45:59 pm
No chance it has a broken front coil spring? Thats apparently a really common fault on the MK3 Espace. Mine just failed an MOT because of it, yet I had never noticed it handling badly. It was making some noise sometimes. Maybe worth a look at the actual coil spring
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: jack daniels on February 17, 2010, 02:57:36 pm
the roads here are very corrugated at the moment with all the snow and ice, so the rattling has returned. Im sure it's the nut on the top of the left , drivers side, shock absorber.
It was somewhat tight last time I checked it but after tightening it further the noise stopped. It was only half a turn loose but that was enough to cause the noise.
It's a bit difficult to tighten it without the correct tools so that's probably why mine came loose after the shocks were changed at the dealer.
A 27mm offset ring spanner is necessary and a 5mm unbrako/allen key ( could be 6mm ). It may be an advantage to cut the spanner to the required length. I didn't have a suitable spanner when I tightened it last time so I guess that's why it has loosened again.
If you are unsure if the nut has the correct torque because the thread is a bit dry then loosen it a bit first, then tighten as much as possible without damaging the 5mm hex. for the allen key.
It was somewhat tight last time I checked it but after tightening it further the noise stopped. It was only half a turn loose but that was enough to cause the noise.
It's a bit difficult to tighten it without the correct tools so that's probably why mine came loose after the shocks were changed at the dealer.
A 27mm offset ring spanner is necessary and a 5mm unbrako/allen key ( could be 6mm ). It may be an advantage to cut the spanner to the required length. I didn't have a suitable spanner when I tightened it last time so I guess that's why it has loosened again.
If you are unsure if the nut has the correct torque because the thread is a bit dry then loosen it a bit first, then tighten as much as possible without damaging the 5mm hex. for the allen key.
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: jack daniels on February 17, 2010, 08:25:53 pm
...forgot to include this diagram.
it's pretty much impossible for the shock to not be centered at the top.
the spring can only be positioned one way, its fairly easy to see or feel with your hand that its correct.
had any luck yet?
it's pretty much impossible for the shock to not be centered at the top.
the spring can only be positioned one way, its fairly easy to see or feel with your hand that its correct.
had any luck yet?
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting
Post by: Sommerby on October 22, 2010, 12:24:43 am
Finally I have solved the noise issue. I bought the vdka kit that Renault biler recommended in this tread, and that solved the issue.
:)
:)
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: Anders Dinsen on October 22, 2010, 08:17:07 am
That's great Bo!
I really need to do the same job on mine. It's making lots of noise from the same place. I've searched for the parts through http://www.daparto.de/ and found it here. One thing puzzles me: They're saying "Anzahl pro Achse: 1" - in my mind that means that ordering one set gives me one for both sides. Does it contain two sets, Bo - and where did you buy it? :)
/Anders
I really need to do the same job on mine. It's making lots of noise from the same place. I've searched for the parts through http://www.daparto.de/ and found it here. One thing puzzles me: They're saying "Anzahl pro Achse: 1" - in my mind that means that ordering one set gives me one for both sides. Does it contain two sets, Bo - and where did you buy it? :)
/Anders
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: Sommerby on October 22, 2010, 07:48:02 pm
That's great Bo!
I really need to do the same job on mine. It's making lots of noise from the same place. I've searched for the parts through http://www.daparto.de/ and found it here. One thing puzzles me: They're saying "Anzahl pro Achse: 1" - in my mind that means that ordering one set gives me one for both sides. Does it contain two sets, Bo - and where did you buy it? :)
/Anders
I really need to do the same job on mine. It's making lots of noise from the same place. I've searched for the parts through http://www.daparto.de/ and found it here. One thing puzzles me: They're saying "Anzahl pro Achse: 1" - in my mind that means that ordering one set gives me one for both sides. Does it contain two sets, Bo - and where did you buy it? :)
/Anders
Hi Anders. I bought it at Jysk Autodele. There is only one side set in one package (Upper top mounting plus bearing located below the spring) Please note that the left and right side is different so they got each a seperat part number. The total cost for both a left and a right set was 1500,-kr (Approx 200 Euro's).
When you replace the bearing below the spring I will recommend that you use alot of grease in order to keep moisture away from the bearing. I replaced those bearings for 2 years ago and they were allready badly corroded and defective. The noisemaker was in my case the metal "cup" on the top mounting. It was brooken where the shock absorber center nut is located so a part of the metal cup was hanging loose on the centerbolt.
What a difference to drive without this very annoying noise. :)
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: jack daniels on October 22, 2010, 09:55:36 pm
the SKF set VKDA 35620 T ( T is for twin pack, both sides ) should only cost about 800kr in denmark at a car parts shop.
the parts are labelled "made in france".
I paid about 690 kr back in 2008.
the parts are labelled "made in france".
I paid about 690 kr back in 2008.
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: Anders Dinsen on October 23, 2010, 09:26:37 am
I just checked http://www.profiteile-direct.de/ , and their catalogue confirms that this is a set of two. See the screen shot from their web shop.
Sounds like I can save some money buying it from Germany :)
Sounds like I can save some money buying it from Germany :)
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: Sommerby on October 24, 2010, 12:20:10 pm
Anders, That's a good link. Less than halft the price compared to the price I payed.
A good link to save for the future :-)
A good link to save for the future :-)
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: Anders Dinsen on October 24, 2010, 01:19:47 pm
I found them through the http://www.daparto.de/ portal. I think that's an even better link to save :)
I've ordered new rubbers, new springs and the set of bearings and has paid less than 300€ - SKF and LESJÖFORS parts, so I don't think I'll have to worry about the quality. I already have a set of lower wishbones too, and front shocks were replaced with new originals from Renault/Monroe last year - so I expect to get a perfect front end after this has been done :D
/Anders
I've ordered new rubbers, new springs and the set of bearings and has paid less than 300€ - SKF and LESJÖFORS parts, so I don't think I'll have to worry about the quality. I already have a set of lower wishbones too, and front shocks were replaced with new originals from Renault/Monroe last year - so I expect to get a perfect front end after this has been done :D
/Anders
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: jack daniels on October 26, 2010, 07:57:48 pm
there seems to be several brands available. It's a bit difficult to gauge the quality by looking at a picture on a PC screen, but one brand looked like the ball bearings were visable. The SKF bearings are very well sealed at least.
They could all be the same parts with different brand names on the packaging anyway.
They could all be the same parts with different brand names on the packaging anyway.
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: e.space.3 on November 10, 2010, 02:43:08 pm
Hello
Glad people here, solved their problems with suspension.
I have the same problem, now. :P
Do you think the reparation kit from "Sachs" will match the quality from "SKF" ?
Do you think is a good choice ?
It is little cheaper than "SKF" kit posted by Anders. 20-25 EURO but the dealer have it now.
Thank you
Glad people here, solved their problems with suspension.
I have the same problem, now. :P
Do you think the reparation kit from "Sachs" will match the quality from "SKF" ?
Do you think is a good choice ?
It is little cheaper than "SKF" kit posted by Anders. 20-25 EURO but the dealer have it now.
Thank you
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: jack daniels on November 13, 2010, 04:57:34 pm
I have never seen the sachs parts but I think the quality will be the same. It is likely they are made in the same assembly line anyway. I installed SKF only because it was available quickest, and the price was right.
the ball bearings themselves will be ok, It's the races that rust away. If you are re-installing used shock absorbers then they will probably need replacing before the bearings do anyway.
the ball bearings themselves will be ok, It's the races that rust away. If you are re-installing used shock absorbers then they will probably need replacing before the bearings do anyway.
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: e.space.3 on November 13, 2010, 11:23:47 pm
I was at my mechanic garage, replaced both pairs, the flanges and the bearings. It was a mixture: SKF bearings and flanges from Sachs.
140 EURO/1043DKK/120GBP/
CHINA ???
This:
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5487/rodh.jpg)
was a pain in the a$$ to unscrew due to bad design of screw (little allen vs giant force needed because of rust). Anyway my mechanic manage to change the parts and put everything in place.
After almost 12 years I found original parts from Matra. Very damaged and rusted bearings.
Honestly after 2 days of driving with new parts installed, I have the same noise in the front/right side of the vehicle, when I pass over a series of bumps in the road.
:(
Weird.
one side
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8103/skf1.jpg)
the other side
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9649/skf2.jpg)
There are no marks on them !?!?!?!?! CHINA ?
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3800/sachs1.jpg)
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9741/sachs2.jpg)
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9180/sachs3.jpg)
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1908/sachs4.jpg)
The word Matra was erased after casting.
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/272/sachs5.jpg)
12 years old !!!
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3830/matra.jpg)
140 EURO/1043DKK/120GBP/
CHINA ???
This:
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5487/rodh.jpg)
was a pain in the a$$ to unscrew due to bad design of screw (little allen vs giant force needed because of rust). Anyway my mechanic manage to change the parts and put everything in place.
After almost 12 years I found original parts from Matra. Very damaged and rusted bearings.
Honestly after 2 days of driving with new parts installed, I have the same noise in the front/right side of the vehicle, when I pass over a series of bumps in the road.
:(
Weird.
one side
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8103/skf1.jpg)
the other side
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9649/skf2.jpg)
There are no marks on them !?!?!?!?! CHINA ?
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3800/sachs1.jpg)
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9741/sachs2.jpg)
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/9180/sachs3.jpg)
(http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1908/sachs4.jpg)
The word Matra was erased after casting.
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/272/sachs5.jpg)
12 years old !!!
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3830/matra.jpg)
Title: Re: Noise from front shock absorber upper mounting Solved
Post by: jack daniels on November 14, 2010, 08:29:09 pm
140 euro for the work is cheap.
you are right about that difficult thread. I use a die on the end to clean up such threads or just cut it off with a saw.
The sachs top flanges look to be the same as the SKF ones I bought. The SKF kit was labelled "made in france".
I guess they are the same parts in different packaging.
the noise that you still have; is it a bearing noise? or more of a clunk?
I guess the bearings are in the right way up. The flattest side ( top photo ) upwards.
The nut on the top of the shock absorber piston needs to be all the way home, 60Nm according to the manual.
Any gap there will cause clunking sounds.
you are right about that difficult thread. I use a die on the end to clean up such threads or just cut it off with a saw.
The sachs top flanges look to be the same as the SKF ones I bought. The SKF kit was labelled "made in france".
I guess they are the same parts in different packaging.
the noise that you still have; is it a bearing noise? or more of a clunk?
I guess the bearings are in the right way up. The flattest side ( top photo ) upwards.
The nut on the top of the shock absorber piston needs to be all the way home, 60Nm according to the manual.
Any gap there will cause clunking sounds.
