MatraSport Forum

Each model => Murena => Topic started by: Jon Weywadt on March 26, 2010, 01:14:00 pm



Title: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 26, 2010, 01:14:00 pm
I read Oetker's warning about his Nankang tires in the parts weigh-list thread. Thanks Oetker.  ;D

I am looking for new tires for my Murena, and I have a hard time finding tires that fit my original 14" alloys. It seems that no serious driver only has 14" rims these days. All the good performance tires I find do not come in less than 15".  :o

I would like to get something like the GoodYear F1 GS D2, which have an agressive wet capability and it existed in the 185X60R14 and 195X60R14 sizes. But that tire seems to be obsolete now and the new F1 GS D3 does not come in those sizes.  >:(

The Toyo tires that Graham use for track and are street legal, do come with the warning "Caution: Careful attention is required in wet conditions due to limited aquaplaning capabilities."
Otherwise I would be tempted to get them. Even if the 225X50R14 on the rear would be nearly 2% undersize, the 185X60R14 are spot on and the 205X55R14 only 0.6% oversized for the front.

I am wondering what you Matranauts out there have found to be the best choise for the original 14" alloys ?  ???


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oskar on March 26, 2010, 04:58:30 pm
id use toyo proxies with harder shoulders


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Laurens on March 26, 2010, 05:22:29 pm
I use for my non original 15 inch wheels toyo proxis t1-r 205 width in the frond, 225 in the back.

Much better than my previous pirelli p6000.

Proxis CF 1 is available in the murena 14 inch sizes. But don't have any experience with this tyre.

For my 14 inch winter set i think i am going to put toyo winter tyres on the rims.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: krede on March 26, 2010, 06:41:41 pm
Try doing a search...we had a good discussion on that topic some time ago. :)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 26, 2010, 10:19:12 pm
Try doing a search...we had a good discussion on that topic some time ago. :)

I have searched online for weeks, but for the 14" wheels you can mostly get brands that I have never heard of or have bad experience with from previous cars.

I would love to use the Toyo Proxies, but except for the R888 model, they do not come in both the needed sizes. Grahams R888's have that warning about aquaplaning, and since I am likely to encounter quite a bit of wet driving in Denmark, I am not too keen on trying them.

I just this evening found that Goodyear makes a "HydraGrip" tire that comes in the 185/60R14 and 195/60R14 sizes. Do any one of you have experience with this tire?

I may give them a try if I cannot find a brand name performance tire.

Alternatively I could try to get a replica of the original wheels made in a 15" or 16" size. :o  I will keep on dreeming.  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: lewisman on March 26, 2010, 11:22:22 pm
Uniroyals are good in the wet or alternatively Vredesteins.

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=12228913.110.6785&typ=D-110518&ranzahl=4&Breite=195&Quer=60&Felge=14&Speed=H&weiter=30&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=15&Transport=P&dsco=110&sowigan=So

I am not a great fan of Toyos which are basically a low budget brand .


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 27, 2010, 10:59:10 am
According to people on our forum, that drive the Murena for about 30 years now the Michelin Pilot Premacy is the way to go.
I heard that before, but it is a expencive tyre.
I had some Chinese stuff from Nankang mounted, but this made my car very difficult to handle.
They were way to soft.
My new choice is Bridgestone Turanza ER300 195/60 R14 on the back, wich has the best results in different tests and also good in wet conditions.
Hope to get the tyres this week.
On the front I have Michelin E3A energy 185/60 R14 wich I like but are less good in the wet, thats why I want the bridgestone now.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 27, 2010, 11:30:34 am
Some extra information.
Going wider then original 195 on the back and staying 185 at the front gave me problems to keep the car on track.
I was constantly steering to keep the car in a straight line.
If it is because of the Nankangs I don't know, but to be sure this want happen again, I stay on original sizes.

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=79024014.110.22964&typ=R-103769&ranzahl=4&Breite=195&Herst=Bridgestone&Quer=60&Felge=14&Speed=H&weiter=0&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=15&Transport=P&dsco=110&sowigan=So

Look at the testdetais from Adac and others.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 27, 2010, 11:42:40 pm
Some extra information.
Going wider then original 195 on the back and staying 185 at the front gave me problems to keep the car on track.
-----

I was thinking of going wider both on front and back and to help find alternative sizes I use this danish link:
http://www.eurowheels.dk/Beregninger.asp?kode=TEST5
Even though it is danish I think all shold be able to figure out to use it. (otherwise translate with Google language tools) ;D

The problem, though is, that on 14" rims, you will have a hard time finding anything over 195/60. The link will tell you the change in actual Km/t if you change sizes. The object, of course is to get as close as possible to the originals. Personally I would not go for more than about +/- 0.5%..

So if I could find 205/55R14 and 215/55R14 I would be +0.6% and +0.4% off from the originals. Chances of finding those sizes are slim to none, though. :(

But back to the problem of finding good tires. I just fount that the Danish motor organisation, FDM, has pretty good words on the Uniroyal RainExpert, which they give 4of6 stars on dry and 5of6 stars on wet road. They say it handles quite well. Comfort is not high, but since what I want most of all is GRIP, I don't really care about that. Lo and behold, the RainExpert seems to be made in the 185/60R14 and 195/60R14 sizes. Now to find them. ::)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: michaltalbot on March 28, 2010, 11:59:04 pm

My new choice is Bridgestone Turanza ER300 195/60 R14 on the back, wich has the best results in different tests and also good in wet conditions.


I have them on my orig.alloys, but be sure that You'll have them in "V" (speed index), I bought them in "H" and they are a bit soft.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 29, 2010, 12:30:00 am
Can't find them in this size in V speed.
There are a lot of limitations to find the right tyres for the Murena :-[
If they are a bit soft it's no problem.
I don't race the car, but like the country roads to speed a little.
My 12 year old Vikings felt like wood on the car, so a bit soft is no problem, but the Nankangs felt like balloons under the car.
Choices, choices........... ???


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: michaltalbot on March 29, 2010, 12:38:27 am
Can't find them in this size in V speed.
There are a lot of limitations to find the right tyres for the Murena :-[
If they are a bit soft it's no problem.
I don't race the car, but like the country roads to speed a little.
My 12 year old Vikings felt like wood on the car, so a bit soft is no problem, but the Nankangs felt like balloons under the car.
Choices, choices........... ???

OK, I think that You'll be satisfied. They are very good in dry but also very very good on wet surface. After driving first cca 200km carefully, I recomend to warm them up very well, somewhere where You can make some fast corners for cca 10 minutes. Don't know why, but after this warming, tires are working better their whole life.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 29, 2010, 12:48:51 am
Living in the Netherlands, wit lots of water coming down, a bit grip in the wet is welcome.
I hope it will be the right choice for me.
We will see.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: GP on March 29, 2010, 11:17:25 am
Has anyone considered Marangoni's?

http://www.tyrecorp.com.au/marangoni/



Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 29, 2010, 11:27:31 am
Has anyone considered Marangoni's?

http://www.tyrecorp.com.au/marangoni/


I looked at those, but the only thread pattern I would use "Mythos" does not come in 14". Actually the only 14" in sizes they show for the original alloys are the "Verso" and only in "H" rating. :(


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 29, 2010, 11:19:52 pm
quote author=Oetker link=topic=1688.msg13986#msg13986 date=1269859266]
It was a miss, but I think all 4 would have been a miss, so I want try the others, and go straight for a brand tire.
-----
[/quote]

I moved this answer from the parts weigh list as it was turnning into a best tire thread like this one. ;)

Bridgestone makes an all season tire, the Potenza G 009. It is rated as a performance tire, that has excellent wet road performance, but I don't know its overall performance. Anyone familiar with this tire?

Bridgestone is a Firestone brand, I found out by searching for the tire sizes on firestone.com. The only results they show in both the two original sizes is the Potenza G 009 and the Potenza RE960A/S Pole Position.

The RE960A/S has a 60000 Km warranty, while the G 009 has a 80000 Km warranty. I assume it means that the compound is softer on the RE960A/S and perhaps it performs better on dry road because of that. ???

So my online search has so far found these tires that I would possibly trust:
Goodyear F1 GS D2 (obsolete however)
GoodYear HydraGrip (all season, going obsolete as far as I know)
UniRoyal RainExpert
Bridgestone Potenza G009
Bridgestone Potenza RE960A/S Pole Position

Bridgestone Turanza ER300 (not getting a good wet-road rating in Danish motor organisation, FDM, tests)
The Toyo's that Graham use look COOL but have that aquaplaning warning.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 29, 2010, 11:46:07 pm
Quote
--------
Bridgestone Turanza ER300 (not getting a good wet-road rating in Danish motor organisation, FDM, tests)
============================================================================

That's strange, because every test I saw claimed that they performed well in the wet.
The Bridgestone Turanza ER300 Ecopia however, performs less good.
Maybe a mixed up test?

Edit.
====
Yep mixed up test.
The test is about the the Ecopia, wich is a different tire.

http://www.fdm.dk/test-teknik/daektest/daek/bridgestone-turanza-er300-eco-pia
=============================================================


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: lewisman on March 30, 2010, 12:55:36 am
No idea what they would be like on a murena but I am very happy with Vredestein Ultracs on my 2.4 jtd Alfa.  I had Toyo Proxis on when I bought the wheels but they were noisier and did not last very long.  Grip was okay though. Toyos might be okay on the front of a murena as there is not so much weight loading.....


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 30, 2010, 03:34:02 pm
Quote
--------
Bridgestone Turanza ER300 (not getting a good wet-road rating in Danish motor organisation, FDM, tests)
============================================================================

That's strange, because every test I saw claimed that they performed well in the wet.
The Bridgestone Turanza ER300 Ecopia however, performs less good.
Maybe a mixed up test?

Edit.
====
Yep mixed up test.
The test is about the the Ecopia, wich is a different tire.

http://www.fdm.dk/test-teknik/daektest/daek/bridgestone-turanza-er300-eco-pia
=============================================================
Strange that there is two Turanza ER300 models ??? and the ecopia is only average on wet roads.

I currently drive with Firestone Firehawk 690 on front and rear. I washed the car today and measured the remaining thread pattern and I have 7mm on the front, so they will last a while. But on the rear there is only about 3-4 mm left.
It turns out that Firestone has a Firehawk GT tire in 195/60R14 that is rated as a performance tire. I wonder how it would handle with the Firehawk 690 on the front. ??? ??? ??? But that may be the way to go, as next time all 4 will have to be replaced.

If good 14" tires are becoming so difficult to find, I may just have to buy a set now to keep in stock until I need  all 4 replaced. How long can you store a set of tires without the rubber going bad, i.e. drying out? And do they have to be stored upright or laying down? ???


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 30, 2010, 07:30:19 pm
Storing tires is not the way to go I think.
You can take precaution for dry out by rubbing it in with vaselin and seal it vacume, but storing laying down or standing up wil give misform after some time.
Maybe once in a while flip it over like a good wine could help.
Don't know what the outcome will be.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on April 02, 2010, 01:20:27 am
I am looking for new tires for my Murena, and I have a hard time finding tires that fit my original 14" alloys. It seems that no serious driver only has 14" rims these days. All the good performance tires I find do not come in less than 15".  :o
...

I am wondering what you Matranauts out there have found to be the best choise for the original 14" alloys ?  ???

Hello Jon,

I have only just noticed this thread, as I don't get time to look in very often.  The first thing is that if you stick with the original alloys (which I do) you should change to 185/55 x 14 front tyres.  The improvement is better than the 5% reduction in sidewall would suggest.  Many others who have followed my example here agree the car is better with these. The radius difference is so slight that the speedo reading is still fine.  Second, since these rims are only 6" wide you should not really put a wider tyre than the 195 on them for optimum fit.

I like tyres that are good in the wet, and directional ones if possible.  So I recommend Uniroyal 550 which you can get in 185/55 x 14 for the front and 195/60 x 14 for the rear.  In these sizes they both have two central drainage grooves around the tyres.  (The 185/60 X 14 only has one)  They were also rated as fairly quiet and since tyre noise can be high in the Murena, this is a good point.

Roy


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 02, 2010, 10:37:23 am

Hello Jon,

I have only just noticed this thread, as I don't get time to look in very often.  The first thing is that if you stick with the original alloys (which I do) you should change to 185/55 x 14 front tyres.  The improvement is better than the 5% reduction in sidewall would suggest.  Many others who have followed my example here agree the car is better with these. The radius difference is so slight that the speedo reading is still fine.  Second, since these rims are only 6" wide you should not really put a wider tyre than the 195 on them for optimum fit.

I like tyres that are good in the wet, and directional ones if possible.  So I recommend Uniroyal 550 which you can get in 185/55 x 14 for the front and 195/60 x 14 for the rear.  In these sizes they both have two central drainage grooves around the tyres.  (The 185/60 X 14 only has one)  They were also rated as fairly quiet and since tyre noise can be high in the Murena, this is a good point.

Roy
Hi Roy.

Thanks for this suggestioon. I just looked at the Uniroyal (Rallye) 550's, and though I see them on conti-online.com, I cannot find them in online shops in the 195/60R14. I will ask the local dealer. That the spedo shows 3+% than the actual speed, may be an advantage with my heavy speeder foot. ;D

Uniroyal makes a "RainExpert" tire that is uni-directional and a very agressive wet road tire. It comes in the original sizes. I wonder how it compares to the 550??

I have found that many of the manufacturers are dropping the 14", apparently because the trend is going to lower profiles on larger diameter rims. For instance, the Goodyear F1 GSD2 and HydraGrip. The Firestone Firehawk 690 (that I currently have) are no longer available in both sizes for the Murena. :(


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on April 02, 2010, 10:52:06 am
For Danmark here

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=74423084.123.7647&typ=R-104303&ranzahl=4&Breite=195&Herst=Uniroyal&Quer=60&Felge=14&Speed=H&weiter=0&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=15&Transport=P&dsco=123&sowigan=So


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on April 06, 2010, 03:30:05 pm
Hi Roy.

Thanks for this suggestioon. I just looked at the Uniroyal (Rallye) 550's, and though I see them on conti-online.com, I cannot find them in online shops in the 195/60R14. I will ask the local dealer. That the spedo shows 3+% than the actual speed, may be an advantage with my heavy speeder foot. ;D

Uniroyal makes a "RainExpert" tire that is uni-directional and a very agressive wet road tire. It comes in the original sizes. I wonder how it compares to the 550??

I have found that many of the manufacturers are dropping the 14", apparently because the trend is going to lower profiles on larger diameter rims. For instance, the Goodyear F1 GSD2 and HydraGrip. The Firestone Firehawk 690 (that I currently have) are no longer available in both sizes for the Murena. :(

Yes Jon,

It looks like the 550 is now discontinued, and the RainExpert has replaced it.  However 550's in both 185/55x14 and 195/60x14 sizes are still listed on www.mytyres.co.uk   Both these sizes are also listed sizes (as are the 185/60x14) for the RainExpert according to the Uniroyal website.

This trend to larger wheels has been a problem for some time and will get worse unfortunately.  A local new tyre machine can only handle wheels from 14" to 24" diameter!!  So what about all those 10" Mini wheels, the 12" wheels and particularly all the 13" wheels that were the most common size for many years and fitted to virtually all cars, many of which are still around?  Shows just what these people think of customers!  If the trend continues, not only will you have to get your tyres from the classic specialists, but they will be the only places that can handle the wheel sizes too.

For owners of the 1.6 Murena on original 13" steel wheels the 195/70x13 rear tyre is already unavailable generally just like the 185x13 rear tyre for the Bagheera!  Specialists only now for good brands...

Roy


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: suffolkpete on April 06, 2010, 06:09:04 pm
Quote
For owners of the 1.6 Murena on original 13" steel wheels the 195/70x13 rear tyre is already unavailable
That's only me isn't it  :(  Probably a slight exaggeration, but at Romorantin last year I only saw two other ones with steel wheels.  My car is already running on 185/70 tyres on the back because the previous owner couldn't find the right size.  This trend for big wheels and low profile tyres is getting out of hand.  My daughter has a new diesel Clio with 15 inch 50% alloys.  They may look nice, but the ride is really harsh and they are quite unnecessary in a car of that type.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: JL on April 06, 2010, 10:29:48 pm
Hi All
I think that Michelin are still making a 185x13 in their classic XAS pattern which my Murena has as a spare.

http://www.michelin-passion.com/passion/front/templates/document.DocumentRepositoryServlet?codeDocument=745&codeRepository=PASSION&codeRubrique=PASSION

Regards
John


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: suffolkpete on April 06, 2010, 11:55:54 pm
Quote
I think that Michelin are still making a 185x13 in their classic XAS pattern which my Murena has as a spare.
That's the wrong size for a spare.  It should be 175/70 x 13 to be the same diameter as your standard alloy fitment on the front.  My car has a 175/70 x 13 as a spare.  Will the larger one fit on the front without fouling the bodywork?


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: JL on April 07, 2010, 02:20:06 pm
Slight misunderstanding here, my spare wheel tread pattern is XAS but the tyre is not 185x13 it is the correct size - sorry for that; I was just saying that Michelin are now making a 185x13 in that tread pattern.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: hoffmann on April 13, 2010, 11:30:05 pm
SEMPERIT SPEEDCOMFORT is great!


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 15, 2010, 10:28:48 pm
Today I went to my tire store because he said he had a set of Bridgestone Turanza ER300 tires. Unfortunatey, when I got there it turned out that only the front set  were the  "good" ER300's.
The rear seet were the "Ecopia" kind that receive only average rating on wet road. >:(
They tell me that that is the only kind they can get now. Some EU thing about energy efficiency or some cra% like that.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on April 15, 2010, 10:41:45 pm
Why don't you use the danish link I provided?
They deliver shipment free and are dirt cheap.

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=74423084.123.7647&typ=D-112746&ranzahl=4&Breite=185&Herst=Bridgestone&Quer=60&Felge=14&Speed=H&weiter=0&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=15&Transport=P&dsco=123&sowigan=So


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on April 30, 2010, 09:21:56 pm
The Bridgestones came in some time ago but didn't have time to mount them before last week..
Had some tests on the dry.
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1856/p1020159medium.jpg)
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6747/p1020163medium.jpg)
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1356/p1020164medium.jpg)
They are a bit softer then the Vikings I had before.
I like that because the car was hard on the back with the old tires, and drove them at 2.1 bar t get any comfort.
Grip in dry was impressive with Bridgestones on 2.5 bar.
Didn't rain for a few weeks so couldn't test them in the wet, and now it is raining the car is not at hand.
Will try that out later.
In the mean time I had the chanche to play with some wheels.
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7924/p1020160medium.jpg)
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5605/p1020162medium.jpg)
16" 7J ET 40
Can get them for little money, and maybe I do for future plans.
First I have to wreck the tires that are on the car for now ;D


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 12, 2010, 01:00:19 pm
Why don't you use the danish link I provided?
They deliver shipment free and are dirt cheap.

I tried to get the Bridgestone Turanza ER300 from them, but they can only deliver the "Ecopia" kind and those do not get good ratings on wet roads. They have not removed the non-ecopia ER300's from the shop.

I found out that they can deliver Continental PremiumContact2 tires in the right sizes though. When I look at the thread pattern on that tire it looks identical to the ER300.

Since the two brands are owned by the same people I wonder if it is the same tire, just with a different name. ???

If that is the case, then I wonder if the PremiumContact2 also are the new "Ecopia" rated tires too. Apparently that is a EU requirement for increased fuel ecconomy, but it makes the compound harder and reduces grip.  >:(

Are there any of you who have experience with the PremiumContact2 tires?


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 12, 2010, 02:09:43 pm
If that is the case, then I wonder if the PremiumContact2 also are the new "Ecopia" rated tires too. Apparently that is a EU requirement for increased fuel ecconomy, but it makes the compound harder and reduces grip.  >:(

You want grip, grip and more grip on the Murena! For fun, and safety. I can highly recommend Yokohama s.drive with it's wide contacts patch and grippy compound.

Unfortunately they seem to be only available from 15 inch sizes, except for a single 185/55R14 size, which I'm running front. My rears are c.drive, and they're ok too, but much softer in the carcass and quite a different tyre. Thinking back, I'd probably choose A.drive for rears instead.

/Anders


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 20, 2010, 11:07:00 pm

-I can highly recommend Yokohama s.drive with it's wide contacts patch and grippy compound.

Unfortunately they seem to be only available from 15 inch sizes, except for a single 185/55R14 size, which I'm running front.---

/Anders
Yes, that reflects the problem I ran into. Performance tires are hard to find in 14" sizes that fit the Murena.

The Turanza ER300, that Oetker reccommended, are no longer available, except in the Ecopia type. From what I hear it is an EU thing to try to force the tire manufacturer to make tires with lower rolling resistance (harder compound). But that causes loss of grip on wet roads. Wet roads are very common in Denmark so... no Ecopias for me.

I have finally settled on a set of Continental PremiumContact 2 and they are not ecopia rated. They were available from daekonline.dk in both Murena sizes and get fine reviews. Continental and Bridgestone are the same people and the PremiumContact 2 have a thread pattern identical to the Turanza ER300. Perhaps it really is the same tire just with a different brand name.

We shall se after I get them mounted next week. After all this trouble I sure hope they perform well. Otherwise I may bite the bullet and drop the original alloys. I'd hate that. >:(


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 25, 2010, 09:47:07 pm
We shall se after I get them mounted next week. After all this trouble I sure hope they perform well. Otherwise I may bite the bullet and drop the original alloys. I'd hate that. >:(
Got the Continental PremiumContact 2 tires mounted this afternoon. Leaving the shop I got into a serious downpour, so I am happy to report that the tires performed quite well.

Heading north on the freeway in the rain I came up on trafic and had to slow down to about 60. Something made me look up in the rearview mirror, where I saw a Suzuki Swift loose control, heading sideways for my rear end. A quick flick of the steering wheel got me over to the right as he passed me in the grass in the median. He regained control and everyone was safe and I am sure he was really awake after that. I was. :o

About the tires, I can say that the ride is much more comfortable and quiet. My suspicion is that this will mean that the responsivenes is not as good as my old Firestone firehawks. But we shall see. It does feel like there is a bit more roll from the rear, when I turn quickly. First hand impression is that they would not perform well on the track. But then, ..I don't drive on the track, and the drive to work every day will be more comfortable. I will try to learn the limits of this tire, though. Perhaps a day on "Sjællandsringen" one of our Danish tracks where you can get to know your car under different road conditions. More later.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: michaltalbot on May 26, 2010, 10:17:23 am

Heading north on the freeway in the rain I came up on trafic and had to slow down to about 60. Something made me look up in the rearview mirror, where I saw a Suzuki Swift loose control, heading sideways for my rear end. A quick flick of the steering wheel got me over to the right as he passed me in the grass in the median. He regained control and everyone was safe and I am sure he was really awake after that. I was. :o


Yes and that's the difference between good driver and the rest, because 99% of drivers aren't looking in the mirror when standing and after crash thay only says: "He broke my car, what I could have done?" Jon - hats off!  ;)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 26, 2010, 09:59:33 pm
--- Jon - hats off!  ;)
Thanks Michael. I have developed a good habit of checking all the mirrors, alternatingly when I drive.

But about these PremiumContact 2 tires. I am wondering what would be the best pressure to inflate them to. I did not remember the correct setting, so Ijust told the shop to put 32 PSI in both front and rear. This does not seem to be optimal, so this evening I increased to 36 PSI on the rear and 34 on the front. I did not have too far to drive after that, but it did seem to improve a little bit. However, I may have to learn to drive slower and less energetic  :D because the car does not have the Go-cart feel that it had with the Firehawk tires. Softer and much more roll on quiick steering changes.
But quiet and comfortable they are. I wonder if I can adjust my temperament to match the tires ???


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on May 26, 2010, 11:39:50 pm

But about these PremiumContact 2 tires. I am wondering what would be the best pressure to inflate them to. I did not remember the correct setting, so Ijust told the shop to put 32 PSI in both front and rear.

No, no, no.  A mid-engined car, especially with different size tyres front and rear would never have the same pressures in the front and rear.  With the front that hard you wouldn't have very good grip or handling! :-)

Why do we have different pressures for different cars, different tyres, etc.  The pressure and the cross-sectional area are to hold the weight on that wheel and tyre.  So the more weight the more pressure.  This is the reason you put more pressure in any vehicles tyres if you are carry a heavy load.

However, a larger area means the pressure can come down compared to a smaller one as pressure load related to area.  So when you put bigger wheels and tyres on a car often the pressure is slightly less.

The FAQ's on my website have the tyre pressures for Bagheera and Murena, and the Murena should have a sticker in the door jam and another in the handbook.

The front (which is light remember) only requires 1.8 bar but the rear must  have 2.5 bar for a 2.2 model.  The 1.6 requires different pressures depending on whether it has the 13" 70 profile or the 14" 60 profile tyres.

Although the handbook gives two figures, one for low speed and another for loaded/high speed use, I would recommend keeping them at the high speed setting.  It is so easy to get the Murena up to speed, if you only had the low speed rating you would have to seriously limit your speed! :-)

Roy


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 27, 2010, 06:24:04 am
I agree completely with Roy: 1.8 and 2.5 bar front and rear, respectively. I'd like to add, however, that new tyres need to be run-in for a few hundred km at least.

/Anders


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 27, 2010, 08:49:42 am
I agree completely with Roy: 1.8 and 2.5 bar front and rear, respectively. I'd like to add, however, that new tyres need to be run-in for a few hundred km at least.

/Anders
Thanks Roy and Anders.

I guess I was right to increase the rear to 36 psi ~ 2.5 bar.  :D But I will drop down the front to 26 psi ~ 1.8 bar and be patient over the next couple of hundre Km, to see how it handles.

These tires do, however, seem to have softer side walls than my old Firestone, Firehawk. Like I wrote, the ride is much quieter and comfortable. I don't get the harsh "clunk" from the suspension when going over a pot hole, that I got before.

One more question. What is the correct torque when tightening the wheel bolts?


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on May 27, 2010, 10:11:04 am
These tires do, however, seem to have softer side walls than my old Firestone, Firehawk. Like I wrote, the ride is much quieter and comfortable. I don't get the harsh "clunk" from the suspension when going over a pot hole, that I got before.

That may well be true but it doesn't really change the pressures and particularly the front/rear ratio that should be used.  Different tyres have different compounds and characteristics, which is why some are better in the wet, or dry, and have different wear rates and life.

Quote
One more question. What is the correct torque when tightening the wheel bolts?

The workshop manual states 6.3 daNm or ranging between 5 and 7.5 daNm.

If they have regularly been tightened higher than these, by tyre fitters that overuse air wrenches, then I would say you can use even up to 9 daNm, but they should not be any tighter than that.  It will only make them difficult to remove some time later!

Roy


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on May 27, 2010, 10:48:37 am

The workshop manual states 6.3 daNm or ranging between 5 and 7.5 daNm.

If they have regularly been tightened higher than these, by tyre fitters that overuse air wrenches, then I would say you can use even up to 9 daNm, but they should not be any tighter than that.  It will only make them difficult to remove some time later!

Roy
Thanks, I will check the torque this weekend.

I always apply copper grease to threads and cones before installing hte wheel bolts. I find that they do not "freeze up" when using that.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on May 27, 2010, 10:52:26 am

The workshop manual states 6.3 daNm or ranging between 5 and 7.5 daNm.

If they have regularly been tightened higher than these, by tyre fitters that overuse air wrenches, then I would say you can use even up to 9 daNm, but they should not be any tighter than that.  It will only make them difficult to remove some time later!

Roy
Thanks, I will check the torque this weekend.

I always apply copper grease to threads and cones before installing hte wheel bolts. I find that they do not "freeze up" when using that.

Again no Jon or anyone else.  Copper reacts with aluminium owing to their position in the periodic table.  Copper can make an alloy wheel stick not keep it free.  We used to find truck alloy wheels very difficult to remove after people had used copper grease.

The correct grease is Alumslip.  It is an aluminium version of copper grease if you like.

Roy


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on June 04, 2010, 07:41:47 pm
Well. After several hundred kilometers I am not too pleased with the PremiumContact 2 tires. >:(

They do handle well in wet and dry as far as straight line acceleration and breaking traction goes. They are also comfortable at low speeds because they absorb bumps well. There is no harsh clunk from the suspension that I seemed to have on the Firehawks. :-\

My big problem is the lateral stability at speed. On the freeway at around 110 - 130 Kmh, they feel decidedly unsafe. If I had to make a fast evasive maneuver in one direction followed by another in the opposite direction, I am afraid I would loose control of the car. The rear end "sails" swaying from side to side by small movements of the steering wheel. Cross winds makes it sway like a rowboat in a pond.

I have checked the tire pressure and it is exactly 1.8 bar on the front and 2.5 on the rear. I may try to experiment by going up or down in pressure on the rear. The front seems OK and steers fine. But the mass of the engine makes the rear tires lean heavily to the side.

A long curve of an exit ramp is a nerve racking experience unless you keep it under 70 kmh. Any faster and small steering corrections makes the car wobble from side to side. >:(

It has got me so down that I am actually thinking of dropping my original alloys for some larger diameter ones.

Are there any tires out there in 14" sizes with stiff sidewalls ? I really want to toss these ones. :'( :'( :'( Frustrated.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: michaltalbot on June 04, 2010, 10:39:42 pm
As an employee of Bridgestone company I maybe could say something about tires... The inner construction of the tire is of course very important and Continental are constructed to be comfortable as You can confirm. Very important is the hardness of sidewalls of the tire. There are big differences between speed index T, H, V and W, "faster" tire = harder construction. You can feel the difference between Bridgestone ER300 Turanza H and the same tire in V. I want to say that difference between comfort tire and sport tire is like heaven and hell - there is no compromise. If You want to use Your car "sporty" You have to forgot about comfort and long milleage and go for sport tires - like Bridgestone RE720 or for example Toyo T1. I know that finding a hard constructed tire for Murenas 14" rims is very difficult - that's why I (employee of Bridgestone) am using Toyo tires  :( because Bridgestone ER300 in 14" are only in speed index H which too soft for Murena and RE720 is not produced for more... Maybe that Yokohama could have something sporty in 14" but I think that ideal speed index for Murena is "V".


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on June 05, 2010, 12:06:26 pm
Unfortunately it appears that the only sizes for the Toyo T1 are 195/55 195/45 and 225/40.

Not good fits for the Murena. The 195/55 is appx. 3.5% smaller than the original. Faster acceleration perhaps, but 3.5% worse fuel economy on an already marginal mpg.

How about the Toyo Proxes CF1 ? They are apparently available in both 185/60R14V and 195/60R14V. Anyone have experence with these?


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: michaltalbot on June 05, 2010, 05:15:22 pm
Toyo T1 was an example... but if You'll go to a tire service and You will take the sidewall into Your hand, You will feel the difference. When You press Your thumb into the sidewall of Bridgestone 205/55R16 91V and into the sidewall of, for example, Michelin in the same size, You will see that Michelin is softer and that is what lot of people say - Bridges are less comfortable than Michelins, but they works  ;)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on June 08, 2010, 12:37:02 pm
Next weeks the car will be out its garage and make some miles with the Turanza's.
Also I have the feeling the car is a bit loose on high speeds, but my shockabsorbers are also at the end of life.
I realy don't want to dump the original wheels, but this is becoming difficult now.
If the Turanza's dont meet my expectations in the coming weeks, I start looking for some harder second hand tires fot the time beeing.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: JV on June 09, 2010, 09:24:17 pm
I have the Turanza's at the rear wheels since a few weeks. I have the feeling that the car is loose at high speeds, indeed. It wobbles a bit from side to side. Especially in wide bends with speeds of 120 km/h or more it slightly remembered me of driving with a caravan.  So, I was a bit surprised and disappointed as I did not have this experience with my old (very old) tyres. This improved somewhat after increasing the tyre pressure up to 2.7, but it did not completely disappear. Perhaps I have to increase the tyre pressure even more.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on June 17, 2010, 01:01:13 am
Further inspection of the tires I found out that they dilevered the wrong tires  >:(
There is a small vignet on the sidewall with Ecopia in it.
I didn't order the tires with Ecopia technology but the normal ones wich cost 7 Euro more.
Sended a mail to correct the mistake.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on June 17, 2010, 11:38:50 am
Further inspection of the tires I found out that they dilevered the wrong tires  >:(
There is a small vignet on the sidewall with Ecopia in it.
I didn't order the tires with Ecopia technology but the normal ones wich cost 7 Euro more.
Sended a mail to correct the mistake.
Unfortunately the only way you can get them without the Ecopia rating, is if someone have the old ones still in stock. They only make the Ecopia rated ones now.  >:(

If you check back through the thread you will see that this is what I found out.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on June 17, 2010, 11:42:39 am
Yes I noticed that, but  then there advertisement is wrong and I am misleaded.
I did not get what I ordred.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on June 17, 2010, 12:04:05 pm
Here the difference in advertisement still online.

Not Ecopia.
(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/1702/nonecopia.jpg) (http://img571.imageshack.us/i/nonecopia.jpg/)

Ecopia.
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/4079/necopia.jpg) (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/necopia.jpg/)

The testingresults are also very different.
I am f*cked.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on June 17, 2010, 03:18:43 pm
Here the difference in advertisement still online.
-----
I am f*cked.
Hi Oetker.

I had heard about the Ecopia tires and seen the test rapport, so I called these guys and specifically asked them to confirm that they could still deliver the non-Ecopia kind.
They could not, and could not find any in stock. :(


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: michaltalbot on June 17, 2010, 10:16:41 pm
Yes, that's what we call "f.u.cking ecoterrorism" - in the name of ecology, you have to spend more and more for new ecothings, and you're getting less and less - but eco, everything is "green" >:( An on the opposite side of the world, big countries of Asia (for ex.China) produce huge amounts of pollution, in South America the rain forests are liquidated and every plane when starting produces 100 times more pollutions than 1 car for 100 km of drive, but in the sphere, where air is thinner ::) and they are pissing us up with eco-duty from old cars, eco-stickers for entering centers of the cities, controling every gram of CO2, and at least - make us to buy eco-tyres which are worse than normal ones. Mad world today...


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: brinkie on June 18, 2010, 10:57:45 am
I didn't notice this thread until today, but coincidentally I emailed Roy for advice on tyres. His suggestion is to use Uniroyal Rallye 550, which still seem to be available in 185/55HR14 and 195/60HR14 for a reasonable price (Delticom sells this set for 250 Euro delivered to my doorstep).

I am also having my original 14" alloys (who have been sitting in a dirty basement for 10 years) restored to new: sandblasting and coating and mounting of tyre for 100 Euro each. Currently there are 15" Stilauto alloys on the car with Pirelli P5000 Drago tyres (195/50VR15 front 205/50VR15 rear), who are 10 years old now and need replacing. The road holding is wobbly at high speeds and in long curves.

At 650 Euro this operation is not very cheap, but I hope this brings my Murena closer to original, both visual and in handling!


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on July 05, 2010, 07:09:21 am
The decission is made, the original wheels are off.
I found a set wheels with good tires in V-speed.
(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/7987/sa000042.jpg) (http://img714.imageshack.us/i/sa000042.jpg/)
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/337/sa000043.jpg) (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/sa000043.jpg/)
Front Michelin Pilot Primacy 195/15, and at the back Goodyear touring 205/55
They look good on the car.
The goodyears are not my choiche, but they came with the wheels.
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2539/sa000044.jpg) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/sa000044.jpg/)
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3103/sa000045.jpg) (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/sa000045.jpg/)
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7088/sa000046.jpg) (http://img408.imageshack.us/i/sa000046.jpg/)
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9639/sa000047.jpg) (http://img687.imageshack.us/i/sa000047.jpg/)
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7255/sa000048.jpg) (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/sa000048.jpg/)
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9376/sa000049.jpg) (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/sa000049.jpg/)

First impression is good, but like to test a bit more.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on July 12, 2010, 10:10:17 am
Nice wheelbadges added.
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8077/p1020526medium.jpg) (http://img267.imageshack.us/i/p1020526medium.jpg/)
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7208/p1020527medium.jpg) (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/p1020527medium.jpg/)

Thanks Anders


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on July 12, 2010, 11:26:19 am
Nice wheelbadges added.
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8077/p1020526medium.jpg) (http://img267.imageshack.us/i/p1020526medium.jpg/)
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7208/p1020527medium.jpg) (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/p1020527medium.jpg/)

Thanks Anders
Just back from my daughters wedding in USA. What a great trip.

Where did you get the wheel badges? Are they stick-on. I would like to get a set.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on July 12, 2010, 11:46:12 am
Contact Anders.
He has them in 2 sizes.
They look stunning on the wheels.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on July 12, 2010, 11:50:38 am
Quote Jon.
--------------
Just back from my daughters wedding in USA. What a great trip.
================================================
You were on the right place to import som Michelin pilot sport tires ;)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on July 12, 2010, 02:47:05 pm
Quote Jon.
--------------
Just back from my daughters wedding in USA. What a great trip.
================================================
You were on the right place to import som Michelin pilot sport tires ;)
Yes, but I had too many gadgets in my suitcase as it were. The bastards only allow 1 suitcase and max 22 Kg. I would have had to buy 3 extra suitcases to fit a set. :D

While there I talked to a guy who know a company that will copy any wheel and size it up to the diameter of your choise. He will send me the link and I will check it out.

Wile in the Us I also saw the latest craze, one that may interest some of you radical Murena owners.

Check out the 30" wheels on this Caddy (ups! now the right size picture)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 12, 2010, 04:52:29 pm
Thanks Anders

You are very welcome! They look good, both the rims and the badges!
 
Where did you get the wheel badges? Are they stick-on. I would like to get a set.

Yes, they are stick on. They are domed, so they work best on rims that have centre hub covers (usually plastic). You fit them by removing the rim manufacturers own badge, cleaning the surface, and stick on the "Le Coq" badge.

See: http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,47.0.html


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 12, 2010, 07:06:46 pm
Check out the 30" wheels on this Caddy (ups! now the right size picture)

Oh no!! ;D


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: brinkie on July 21, 2010, 10:49:36 am
Well, I did take the gamble and decided not to restore my 15" Stilauto alloys and replace the 12-year old Pirelli P5000's on them. Instead I dusted off the stack of original 14" alloys which were sitting in my shack for years and had them restored (sandblasted and powder coated), ordered a set of Uniroyal Rallye 550 185/55HR14 front 195/60HR14 rear and had them put on the car. They look brilliant:

(http://www.matramurena.net/pics/murena-voorwiel-185-55-14.jpg)

The profile is also nice:

(http://www.matramurena.net/pics/murena-achterwiel-195-60-14.jpg)

Total cost: 680 Euro. I more or less traded in the Stilauto's for 1 original alloy I was missing (I only had 4), so if anyone desperately needs 15" alloys for a Murena, contact Laszlo (Carjoy.nl) ;)

This is the looks of the car now. I am very happy with it, because the original alloys really match the car. The Stilauto's were too "clean", too flat.

(http://www.matramurena.net/pics/murena-nieuwe-velgen.jpg)

The good news: handling is better than before. I have no "wobbly" feel in the steering anymore, which was present with the old dry Pirelli's. I did not try to reach a limit, though, the car is only on basic insurance now (only 55 Euro/year!) and I don't want to push my luck :) Last time I was unlucky, I painted a piece of German "Leitplanke" in red and lost my right hand side door mirror. That was covered by insurance, but if the guiding rail wasn't there, I probably would have tested the structural integrity of the Murena for side impact to trees or worse.

The bad news: Uniroyal Rallye 550 has gone out of production. I think I have bought some out of the last batches. Newer "sporty" models do not sell in 14". So the problem still exists, but at least I'm good for the next 10 years.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on July 21, 2010, 05:25:47 pm
Man, your car looks NICE! I plan on putting such a nice shine on mine one of these days. But other things have a higher priority right now.

I looked for those Uniroyal, but could not get them in the right sizes. As you found out, they are out of production in 14".

After I got my Continental, PremiumContact2, I discovered that they make the 195's in a "V" rated tire. I may swap the rear tires to see if the rear end will be sufficiently stable.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: brinkie on July 22, 2010, 11:12:38 pm
Man, your car looks NICE! I plan on putting such a nice shine on mine one of these days. But other things have a higher priority right now.
Heheheh, that's summer evening sun light, not really shine. :D The paint job is from 2002, but the car rarely sees sun light when not in use (it's under a cover), that keeps the paint fresh.
Quote
I looked for those Uniroyal, but could not get them in the right sizes. As you found out, they are out of production in 14".
Delticom still stocked them two weeks ago, I got them delivered on July 12. So if you really need them, order now. They're pretty cheap (around 250 Euro for all four) and delivery is free to your doorstep anywhere in Europe.
Quote
After I got my Continental, PremiumContact2, I discovered that they make the 195's in a "V" rated tire. I may swap the rear tires to see if the rear end will be sufficiently stable.
Conti PremiumContact2 are tires for supermini cars, they're fitted on my mum's new Ford Ka. If you really want to go for "V"-rated tires, Michelin Energy E3A would be my best bet.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on July 22, 2010, 11:51:35 pm
Quote Robert.
-----------------
Michelin Energy E3A would be my best bet.
================================
I had them on the front, and do OK, but they don't compare with the old type prehistoric Michelins.
The E3A has not as much grip.
That is the reason I didn't mount them at the back, however it would be best option if you can't find anything else.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 12, 2011, 11:22:26 am
I placed Conti's 195x45x15 sportcontact on the front now.
The car came down on the front 3 cm compared with the 195x55x15 Michelins.
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/605/p1030100medium.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/p1030100medium.jpg/)
Visual it looks not bad.
It looks a little more wedge again.
(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9189/p1030101medium.jpg) (http://img828.imageshack.us/i/p1030101medium.jpg/)
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9219/p1030103medium.jpg) (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/p1030103medium.jpg/)
Adjusted new shocks 4 clicks higher.
The steering has a better feel.
The quest for better roadhandling goes on.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 12, 2011, 04:08:45 pm
Well, I did take the gamble and decided not to restore my 15" Stilauto alloys and replace the 12-year old Pirelli P5000's on them. Instead I dusted off the stack of original 14" alloys which were sitting in my shack for years and had them restored (sandblasted and powder coated), ordered a set of Uniroyal Rallye 550 185/55HR14 front 195/60HR14 rear and had them put on the car. They look brilliant:
---
Hi brinkie.
What is your experience with those Uniroyals after 6 mos. of driving on them?


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 12, 2011, 04:19:32 pm
I placed Conti's 195x45x15 sportcontact on the front now.
The car came down on the front 3 cm compared with the 195x55x15 Michelins.


Remember that now you will be going 103 km/h when the spedometer shows 100 vs. 97 km/h with the 195X55R15's.
This is compare to when the original 185X60R14's show 100 km/h

Here is a link where you can calculate the change in speed between tire sizes.
http://www.toyotaextreme.dk/daekregn.asp


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 12, 2011, 04:46:33 pm
Thats perfect for me, around 4% less.
My speedo was exact on the original tires and I always drive 10% above the limit.
That resulted in a few speedtickets (around €30.-)
now 100 km will be 104 on the speedo.
perfect.

Speedometer-visning
Før     50 km/t        80 km/t   100 km/t      120 km/t      150 km/t
Efter   51.9 km/t     83 km/t   103.8 km/t   124.6 km/t   155.7 km/t


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: brinkie on March 16, 2011, 02:59:58 pm
Hi brinkie.
What is your experience with those Uniroyals after 6 mos. of driving on them?
Since the car has been in storage the past 4 months, I really can't tell about 6 months of driving them! ;)

I think the wall compound is too soft (speed rating H), the handling could be better. But it looks good for originality.

Too bad the Uniroyal RainSport 2 and comparable V-rated tires from other manufacturers are only available from 15" sizes (though correct for the Murena: 195/50VR15 and 205/50VR15), so it might somehow be a good idea to keep 14" rims for originality (e.g. oldtimer shows) and 15" rims for daily/sporty driving.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on March 16, 2011, 09:34:01 pm

The bad news: Uniroyal Rallye 550 has gone out of production. I think I have bought some out of the last batches. Newer "sporty" models do not sell in 14". So the problem still exists, but at least I'm good for the next 10 years.


Although the '550' is now out of production it has been replaced by the Uniroyal 'Rain Expert' which is also available in 185/55 x 14 HR for the front and 195/60 x 14 HR for the rear of the Murena and these are directional tyres too.  The tread pattern does not look as good (IMO) but that doesn't mean to say it is any worse!  Since Uniroyal are owned by Continental I believe, they should be a good quality too.  Alternatives might be Nexen 2000 or Federal tyres which have sporty tyres in these sizes, although I have no personal experience of either.  Nexen are said to be pretty good...

So there are still suitable size tyres if you wish to keep the Murena on original wheels.  Some of these are much cheaper than makes like Michelin, Pirelli, Goodyear, etc. as well, and I don't think these major 'European' brands are worth as much as twice the price. (yes I realise Goodyear is American but the European sizes are generally made in Europe)  At one time Japanese brands like Yokohama and Bridgestone were not considered in the same league as the likes of Michelin, Pirelli etc. but look at them now.

Roy


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 21, 2011, 09:47:02 am
Quote
---------
and I don't think these major 'European' brands are worth as much as twice the price.
==============================================================

Still my best experience is with the Michelins on the Murena.
Also the Pilot primacy V speed on the front did very well and much better as the Michelin E3A.
It's a pity they were  195x15x55, to big for my purpose.
It was my best experience on the front till now.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: brinkie on March 23, 2011, 03:33:44 pm
Alternatives might be Nexen 2000 or Federal tyres which have sporty tyres in these sizes, although I have no personal experience of either.  Nexen are said to be pretty good...
My experience with Chinese tyre brands is that they have exceptional bad performance in the wet. I wouldn't put them on a mid-engined rear-wheel driven car like a Murena.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: michaltalbot on March 23, 2011, 10:43:54 pm
If you are a selfmurderer, than go for Chinese tyres  ;) I see it in Germany, there are lot of cars on Chinese tyres, after the rain it is a slalom between crashed cars  ::)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 23, 2011, 11:01:15 pm
Quote
---------
If you are a self-murderer, than go for Chinese tires.
======================================

That's why I dumped them after 1 day trial.
It was my worse experience on the Murena.
Today I drove a bit around with my new set-up.
First tests are very promising.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on March 26, 2011, 12:45:50 pm
Quote
---------
and I don't think these major 'European' brands are worth as much as twice the price.
==============================================================

Still my best experience is with the Michelins on the Murena.
Also the Pilot primacy V speed on the front did very well and much better as the Michelin E3A.
It's a pity they were  195x15x55, to big for my purpose.
It was my best experience on the front till now.

Well to put another view on this, I'm afraid I would *never* fit Michelins after my experience with them.  The main problem is that Michelins have a reputation for long tyre life.  They get this by being 'harder' but hard tyres don't grip as well, and I value MY life more than tyre life.  I always go for the softest tyre I can get with good wet grip.  When I had Michelins fitted they gripped well - up to a point - and then let go with no warning!  I was lucky to get away with the spin as there was nothing else on the road.  I drive my car hard and want the best out of it.  I found softer tyres were much more progressive and I could feel the approaching breakaway and control it.  On the Murena the front is so light relatively that even with soft tyres and great grip I get 30,000 + miles anyway so that is fine as far as I'm concerned.  Rears last less owing to the extra weight and the power going down through them, but again I don't mind as long as I get the best grip.  And I always check my tyres and pressures regularly since without the right pressures, and tread depth, the car will be unsafe.  Most people drive on their tyres until they are very close to the legal tread limit (1.6mm in the U.K.) but again I do not.  I change them much earlier.

To me Michelins may be fine if you don't drive the car hard and near their limit, but even then any tyre that breaks away suddenly with no warning is a liability since you just don't know when it may happen.

As I stated, I have no experience of the Nexen or other brands and I stick to what I know suit me.  But I have heard others say they are fine.  The problem is most people do not drive mid-engined cars and therefore what may seem fine on a front wheel drive (the most common now) may not be any good on a mid-engined car.  Even the magazine tests rarely test tyres on a mid-engined car so their results are not relevant to us.  The only way is to test them yourself on your car - but that can be expensive.  I have mostly used Pirelli P700 Zero on the front, but they are probably no longer available, so I have had to switch and the last set I bought were the Uniroyal 550 - to try.  Uniroyal have a good reputation for wet grip and handling, and these also gave good results in tests, but I reserve judgement until I have used them in anger.  That has to wait until I have my Murena back on the road...

Roy


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 26, 2011, 01:47:21 pm
I'm with Roy on this. I would never drive a tire with hard rubber compound.
That is why I will stay far away from the new ECO rated tires that are being mandated by the EU. ECO is apparently a rating that should signify longer tire life, less rolling resistance and better fuel ecconomy. But therefore POOR traction, especially on wet roads.
I had a tough time finding good tires for the original alloys and ended, as i wrote earlier, with Continental PremiumContact-2 tires. They are very comfortable and after some getting used to, actually handle very well. The only thing to watch out for is not to make quick adjustments while going through a turn at speed. The tire walls are a bit soft for that.
A couple of months after I got mine through www.daekonline.dk, they started carrying the 195/60R14 in a V rated tire. I would really like to try the difference to see if the handling improves a lot. The 185/60R14 does not come in V rated.  >:(


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on March 26, 2011, 08:36:35 pm
... The 185/60R14 does not come in V rated.  >:(

Jon, I seriously recommend 185/55 x 14 fronts - they are so much better than the original 60 profile.  The sidewall being shorter is stiffer and gives better response, turn in, and often this size has better patterns or ratings.  For example when I bought my Uniroyal 550's the 185/60 x 14 had only one main centre channel but the 185/55 x 14 had two just, like the rear 195/60 x14... and it was rated better in the wet!

I have used the 55 profile for years on the front of the Murena as they are so much better and would not go back now.  The improvement is out of proportion to the small drop in profile, and I'm sure you would find them better.

You might find some tyre brands will do something 'interesting' in a 55 profile whilst there is nothing good available in a 60 profile.  The P700Z I used to use was not available in the 185/60 x 14 but was available in the 185/55 x 14 size.

Roy


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 26, 2011, 09:10:41 pm
Quote Roy.
=========
Jon, I seriously recommend 185/55 x 14 fronts.
===================================

Extra advantage is that it lowers the car a bit on the front.

@ Roy.
I am not looking for a circuit or track-day set up.
I am looking for good road handling in combination with some comfort.
That are total other demands then what you are looking for.
Our goals are different, so is our opinion on this.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on March 28, 2011, 02:17:18 pm
Quote Roy.
=========
Jon, I seriously recommend 185/55 x 14 fronts.
===================================

Extra advantage is that it lowers the car a bit on the front.

Yes that is another good point about this profile.


Quote
@ Roy.
I am not looking for a circuit or track-day set up.
I am looking for good road handling in combination with some comfort.
That are total other demands then what you are looking for.
Our goals are different, so is our opinion on this.

Our opinions may differ, but I do not use my car on the circuit.  I drive it hard and fast on the public roads, when the roads are appropriately empty. :-)  I tend to drive at night more when the roads are often clear.  So I am not looking for a track set-up either.  I just want the best for driving it in my normal use.

Roy


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 29, 2011, 09:42:51 am
Yep, that is the fun of driving a Murena.
I rarely drive the car to is limits and don't want to do this with a car this age anymore, but sometimes my right feet doesn't listen to my brain  8)

When I bought the car it was driving like a wet newspaper.
It was unpredictable in any aspect.
From that moment on I am busy to get the driving experience better.
I started to replace most rubber in the rear and front, and overhauled the steering rack and replaced all rods and ball-joints.
Lining the car learned that the right rear wheel was 7 mm out of specs.
The cause was a bad welding job on the right rear arm, so i replaced that with a better one.
Every step i made the car was going better and at that point I even had the courage to speed it up to 120 mp/h
Then i changed tires.....Back to the start.
I have the feeling making progress again with the conti's on the front and the new spax on the rear.
This summer I am playing around with setting it up.
If you don't hear anything from me, something went wrong  ;)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 29, 2011, 02:25:05 pm
Anyone got experience with Falken tires ? ??? Their "ZIEX ZE-512" tire comes in both 186/60R14 and 195/60R14, but only "H" rated.

Uniroyal have the sizes in their "TigerPaw Touring" tire, but brag that it is their longest lasting tire for a passeger car. This does not bode well for performance on wet roads. (even though the cartoon tiger in their commercials is quire cute  :D :D )

Well, well. Seems like it is easier this year.
Dunlop makes the "Direzza Sport Z1" in both 186/60R14 and 195/60R14 sizes. Still only "H" rated. >:( Anyone got experience with them?


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on March 31, 2011, 11:23:30 pm
Here is a test for the Dunlops and other tires compared with the Michelin PS2 that is proofed good on a Murena.
They do very good in the test.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/tire_test_nine_affordable_summer_tires_take_on_the_michelin_ps2-comparison_tests/dunlop_direzza_sport_z1_star_spec_page_11


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 01, 2011, 08:29:58 am
Here is a test for the Dunlops and other tires compared with the Michelin PS2 that is proofed good on a Murena.
They do very good in the test.
-
Wow, that is a good review for these tires, both dry and wet.

I have sent out a couple of queries to find out how much they will cost delivered to Copenhagen, Denmark. I did find them in a US shop for $108 each, which is not too bad. I may get a set to have on hand when I get tired of the PremiumContact2 tires.  :D


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on April 01, 2011, 08:41:08 am
And most suprising is the 2nd place for the Hankook tires.
a Chinese tire.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: michaltalbot on April 02, 2011, 01:57:17 pm
And most suprising is the 2nd place for the Hankook tires.
a Chinese tire.

Hankook is not chinese tire, but Korean...

But there also will be chinese tires and "chinese" tires. For example, Michelin, made in China for ever will be far away from Vanli, Goodride, Nankang...


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on April 02, 2011, 05:14:12 pm
You never know where things are made.
Lots of firms have started production lines in China.
You put the right name on it and it will sell.
Sometimes on the box you see funny things, like made for Germany  ;)
In fact the only thing German is the name-sticker.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: speedyK on February 25, 2012, 10:27:28 pm
Well, it's nearly a year since the last post on this topic...

My Murena 2.2 still has some very old Michelins on it and I really should replace them. Anyone got any ideas about what the best replacement that is now available will be? Please note that I'm on stock rims and that the Swiss do not tolerate deviations from the size specified in the car's technical details!


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: uberprutser on February 26, 2012, 07:49:02 pm
There is not much choice anymore. Especially 195/60R14 is almost extinct.
The ContiPremiumContact 2 might be an option.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on February 29, 2012, 09:06:25 am
There is not much choice anymore. Especially 195/60R14 is almost extinct.
The ContiPremiumContact 2 might be an option.

I run on the PremiumContact 2. 185/60HR14 front and 195/60HR14 rear.

I think they are a little soft in the side walls and it took a bit of getting used to. After I got mine I found that they make a 195/60VR14. The V rated tire should have stiffer side walls and may give better handling, even if it is only on the rear. They do not make the 185's in a V rated.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on February 29, 2012, 11:27:39 am
There is not much choice anymore. Especially 195/60R14 is almost extinct.
The ContiPremiumContact 2 might be an option.

I run on the PremiumContact 2. 185/60HR14 front and 195/60HR14 rear.

I think they are a little soft in the side walls and it took a bit of getting used to. After I got mine I found that they make a 195/60VR14. The V rated tire should have stiffer side walls and may give better handling, even if it is only on the rear. They do not make the 185's in a V rated.

Not much choices.
Or you deside to drive slow with shitty tires or go for different diameter wheels.
The eco tires are all soft sidewall and that is what the Murena doesn't like in fast corners.
That in combination with end of life shocks at the rear wil giv a bad behavior.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: uberprutser on February 29, 2012, 02:44:27 pm
You need to be quick if you want to have the Conti's.
According to the Conti website they are only available till the stock runs out.

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/de/en/continental/automobile/themes/car-tires/summer-tires/contipremiumcontact-2/contipremiumcontact-2,tabNr=4.html

The V rated tire at the back and the lower 55 profile at the front might be the way to go.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: JL on February 29, 2012, 11:07:00 pm
For what it is worth I run winter tyres all year round, Toyo Snowprox. Pretty good on the road particularly in the wet but I would not sling the car around a dry race track on them, it all depends on how you want to use your car.

Regards
John


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: speedyK on March 03, 2012, 12:41:00 am
Thanks for all the replies.

I had been intending to get the Conti PremiumContact 2s based on my own research before I joined here and read the negative comments about them. that's why I revived this thread.

Worrying to hear that the Contis are just remaining stock. Perhaps I'd better hurry – and see about perhaps getting the V-rated rears.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: uberprutser on March 04, 2012, 04:40:51 pm
Two other tires you might consider. Avon ZV3 and Toyo Proxes CF1.

http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/car/zv3 (http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/car/zv3)
http://www.toyotire-benelux.com/tire/pattern/proxes-cf1 (http://www.toyotire-benelux.com/tire/pattern/proxes-cf1)

The Avon is also available in 185/55R14.

The Proxis gets the better reviews. But probably non of the reviewers drives a Murena :)

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Toyo/Proxes-CF1.htm (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Toyo/Proxes-CF1.htm)
http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/car/zv3 (http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/car/zv3)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: speedyK on March 04, 2012, 10:53:54 pm
Thanks for the info.

Having looked at the tests, I hope to get the Contis.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on October 17, 2012, 12:52:36 pm
Thanks for the info.

Having looked at the tests, I hope to get the Contis.

Anyone looking for good tyres for the Murena on the original 14" alloys, should consider these two:

Uniroyal RainExpert  and  Vredestein Hi-Trac 2
They both come in my recommended sizes: 185/55 x 14 for the front and 195/60 x 14 for the rear in original HR rating.  They are directional and good in the wet.  Keep a 185/60 x 14 non-directional spare tyre (which can be used in emergency on either side and front or rear).

Check them out on mytyres.com and see what they look like.

Roy.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: TimS on October 24, 2012, 09:38:04 pm
Looking at the vredesteins, but Kwikfit currently offering 25% off, so trying to see what they can get.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: TimS on November 07, 2012, 10:36:19 pm
Just to try and start up this topic again...I am looking at getting my car through the MOT sooner than planned and so getting my wheels blasted and powder coated. I then need to get some new tyres. As i haven't been able to drive the car extensively like you guys the tyre selection is a bit of a problem.

I have had a look at what is available in the uk at the moment and the choices about tyre size. Now I've seen what has been said about Michelins and I have to say that I have used them for years but always on high performance front wheel drive cars such as my Golf GTi and on my old Carerra 4 911 where they were excellent. However I've not had such a light car as the Murena for a long time and can appreciate why they might be a little hard.

The Michelins have always given good feel  once warmed up after a couple of miles, whereas the Contis can be a bit soft. Uniroyals I don't know, so a couple of questions.

Has anyone tried a higher speed rated tyre than the H and felt that the ride is too hard or the sidewall too stiff?
Has anyone else tried setting up the car as Roy has done with 55 profile at the front? What difference have you noticed?

I need to try and and decide from others something I would normally know instinctively from driving the car.

I can get Michelin Energys for £290 for 4 fitted, 195/60/14H and 185/55/14H or £235 with 185/60 on the front. The 55's do cost a little.
I can also get the Uniroyal rain expert for the same money as the Michelins. So normally I would get the Michelin as the better tyre,

I can also get the vredestein Hitrac2 for the same money.

So any suggestions or updates since the last posts on here would be appreciated. I intend to set the car up for good handling at speed and long distance.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on November 07, 2012, 11:12:36 pm
I have the feeling that anything that say Energy/Eco better millage a gallon is not the tire for our Murena's.
At the moment I use tires that are out of production and the car feels perfectly fine.
My 2.2 setup is no longer original so my opinion doesn't count anymore.
Robert has the Uniroyals ( bit back in this topic) but was not impressed.
It's difficult to give a advice, but my best bet is to go for a harder sidewall at the rear.
Also shocks that are 30 years old can be of influence.

The 1.6 I have shortly has original wheels.
It was also a bit loose at the rear.
I mounted 2.2 springs and road-handling improved dramatic.
My conclusion is that the back needs to be a bit stiff for better road-handling.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zDJTF4Za4fU/UHBv8zTnTEI/AAAAAAAABvs/inf0jNqrgJU/s800/P1050465%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VZfpnmMKy18/UHWxOzK_aTI/AAAAAAAAB0k/XCfQvFknlOQ/s800/P1050489%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

The car is aa few cm higher at the rear now.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kQG7_odi61k/UHm55ziN8gI/AAAAAAAAB8w/ObuGZGghhe0/s800/P1050538%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
On the front I put new Koni's and stiffer rubber in the stabilizers.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Lji2iVzxhxw/UHci1zSQy1I/AAAAAAAAB5Q/wsGOYX43n4A/s800/P1050519%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

I am not afraid to take high speed curves with this car.
Later on I put Spax on this car to.
It made a big improvement on the 2.2 and I expect it will work for this car to.
I try to keep the original wheels this time.

Not much help i'm afraid,

Greetings herman


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: klumzer on January 15, 2013, 08:22:25 pm
I have Pirelli tyres on the original alloys, P6000 and Pirelli Drago. But they are quite old (2002-2003) and hardened unfortunately so I have to change them.
Now I am searching...


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: TimS on January 15, 2013, 08:32:30 pm
I got the Vredsteins in the end, can't say how they handle yet though!


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Oetker on January 15, 2013, 08:47:16 pm
Let us know.
I found in Poland the last set new Uniroyal 550 Ralley in195 60 14 86H for my 1.6
Production date 2006 :D but only €72.- for te 2 including shipment to the Netherlands
Didd a few miles so have to test for a while, but have the feeling the sidewalls are also to thin.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f8tsomwnvs4/UPB0KoLQKHI/AAAAAAAACcc/SfhqUXOltkA/s800/P1050757%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pdUU_d2hwWY/UPFxVMC94RI/AAAAAAAACds/dM-apFPirRo/s800/P1060767%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: klumzer on January 18, 2013, 03:55:58 pm
Has anyone tried Fulda Carat Progresso?

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/images/tyres/Carat_Progresso.jpg

It was not bad in ADAC tests some years ago, in size 185/60 R14.


It is quite funny to inquire at tyre shops here. The shop assistants are sure that I am not right regarding the size of the rear and front tyres. They think there is no car with different diameters in R14 size... :) They always want to convince me... :)
Then I tell the type of the car, but most of them do not know what I am talking about.... :D
It is a very unknown car here.


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: speedyK on October 06, 2013, 09:52:56 pm
In the end, I got the Vredenstein Sportrac 5 for my Murena 2.2, as they were available in both sizes and do well in tests*.

The Conti Contact 2 are old tyres now. I did get a set of them in 185/70 14 for my Lancia Beta Spider - but they are old stock about 4 years old - and couldn't find them in 195/70 14.

Not pushed the Murena on the new tyres, but they seem OK so far.


* http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Vredestein/Sportrac-5.htm (http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Vredestein/Sportrac-5.htm)



Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 28, 2014, 06:59:58 pm
I just came across a great site for figuring out which rim and tire sizes will best replace the originals.

http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp (http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp)

Not only can you play with rim diameters, widths and tire sizes, you can also adjust offset to make sure that your new tire will clear the fenders and suspension.  ;D


Title: Re: Best tires for original alloys ??
Post by: roy4matra on April 01, 2014, 06:49:51 pm
I just came across a great site for figuring out which rim and tire sizes will best replace the originals.

http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp (http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp)

Not only can you play with rim diameters, widths and tire sizes, you can also adjust offset to make sure that your new tire will clear the fenders and suspension.  ;D

Wheel offset is not about being able to adjust things to make them fit physically.  As I have explained before, you should NOT be altering the offset when replacing wheels, but attempting to match the original specification as close as possible.  The offset dimension is to align the centre-line of the wheel and tyre with the centre-line of the wheel bearing.  This is to give the correct loading.  Any additional offset will give a side torque to the bearings which can cause them to fail prematurely.

Roy