MatraSport Forum

Each model => Espace => Topic started by: chewbacca on May 30, 2010, 09:07:40 pm



Title: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: chewbacca on May 30, 2010, 09:07:40 pm
Hi

I wonder if any one can inform me if I  require a relay for the wiring on a my 2000 2.2dt towbar,from what I've gleaned so far it appears I may be able to just connect to the appropriate stop/driving/indicator light without the need for a relay.I'm only towing a small box trailer so the fog lamps aren't an issue.

Many Thanks


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: Sommerby on June 02, 2010, 05:23:16 pm
Hi

I wonder if any one can inform me if I  require a relay for the wiring on a my 2000 2.2dt towbar,from what I've gleaned so far it appears I may be able to just connect to the appropriate stop/driving/indicator light without the need for a relay.I'm only towing a small box trailer so the fog lamps aren't an issue.

Many Thanks

If your car has a canbus system, you will need a relay. Nothing is working without the relay.
The towbar I mounted, had plugs to connect onto the backlights. I just had to unplug the original plugs, insert the towbar plugs and to connect the original plugs onto the towbar plugs. 
I believed that this was all I needed to do, but nothing was working on the car untill I installed the relay :-)


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: colin4255 on June 09, 2010, 09:47:12 pm
Hi, I put a post on here some time ago about tow-bar electrics and got some useful tips. But I also got a lot of conflicting information from my renault mechanic colleague and from tow-bar fitters. I am still no closer to being able to do this myself.

My 2002 espace has BIII electrics and CANBUS and I am told you need either a renault wiring loom kit for a tow-bar (about 150) or you need to get a professional tow-bar fitting company to properly sort out the electrics - if you are not 100% sure you know what to do don't risk it, you can do untold damage to the electrics if you are not careful


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: chewbacca on June 10, 2010, 08:35:49 pm
Hi There

I purchased the towbar from a large towbar supplier here in the uk.But before I bought it I asked if it was a case of wiring to the rear of the clusters,like I did on my last espace(a 17 year old mk2).I was told that this was indeed the case ,no bypass relay required,but Iwould have to extend the cables for the foglamps.I see that a dedicated wiring loom can be had to wire in a towbar but theyre only available for cars from 10/2002 which makes me think I'll be ok,I think if earlier models required one they would probably have been available.I read your post and decided to phone to make sure ,and it was confirmed no bypass was required on cars upto 2002.It may be the case that because youre car is a 2002 model you require a relay.I'll probably get round to wiring it up next week so i'll post and let you know the result.


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: renaultbiler on June 11, 2010, 06:06:37 am
All JE from 07/98 up have BII and require relay


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: chewbacca on June 11, 2010, 07:35:17 am
Hi There

Would that be for the fog lights only?


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: chewbacca on June 11, 2010, 08:28:04 am
Here's a link to one that states no relay is required?

http://www.toys4cars.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=50357


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: renaultbiler on June 11, 2010, 07:32:04 pm
The relay is for the side indikators as that is fed from BII, never explored it other than replaced the fuse mounted on it but assume its a dual coil relay.


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: BrianM on June 15, 2010, 03:43:43 pm
Hi

I wonder if any one can inform me if I  require a relay for the wiring on a my 2000 2.2dt towbar,from what I've gleaned so far it appears I may be able to just connect to the appropriate stop/driving/indicator light without the need for a relay.I'm only towing a small box trailer so the fog lamps aren't an issue.

Many Thanks

If you have a bcu fitted in the floor fusebox { big black box in the middle & RF type fob } then you need the relay for sure, as you need to protect the electronics in the box. Early cars {if you have an infered remote & jaeger dash} may not need it, I am sure I did'nt use one when I fitted this type vehicle last year.
In the UK if it is a small trailer & it does not obscure the lights on the car then you don't need lights anyway just the reflective triangles (unless the law has changed in recent years.) I was told this by a police officer.


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: chewbacca on June 15, 2010, 05:13:13 pm
Hi Bian

I do have the ECU in the passenger footwell,not sure which one, and it's not Jaegar dash.Believe it or not I have phoned the supplier Four times they assure me it requires no relay,only if it has lamp failure detection do you require a relay, which mine dosen't.They have a website with the electrical drawings for my espace,it uses no relay.There's no sign of any can bus at the clusters,it's all normal lighting cables,and each indicator circuit has it's own fuse,I'm pretty sure it's okay to wire from the clusters,but then others say it requires a relay which makes me nervous about spiking the ECU  for the sake of a 25 relay.
Cheers


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: renaultbiler on June 15, 2010, 07:06:55 pm
Make sure they will pay for a new BII unit including installing and configuration at Renault before you install their kit without relay! Its for a reason this relay exist in all espace's with tow bar and BII unit.


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: chewbacca on June 15, 2010, 11:32:41 pm
Well Ive decided to use a7way bypass relay whether I need it or not .The relay is available for about 20 and Im going to put everything through it, although it may only be the indicators that are questionable,might as well isolate the trailer lighting completely.Still seems strange that the advice being handed out is that no relay is required,and this appears to be fairly widespread,if there is the remotest possibilityof damage occuring,especially when as you say a readymade solution is widely avalable.
Many Thanks


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: colin4255 on June 22, 2010, 08:48:18 pm
I would definitely use the relay. My Espace is an october 2002 JE (JEOK).  I have had some people saying no relay is needed and some saying I do need one. Renault are adamant that I need to protect the indicator electrics at the very least, but their solution is very costly. My conclusion is that most of these aftermarket tow-bar fitters or sellers have no real clue what they are doing. I asked one if he would pay for any replacement parts if not using a relay failed. He then said I should fit one!! If they are only between 20 and 30 seems stupid not to really.


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: chewbacca on June 22, 2010, 11:38:21 pm
Hi Colin

I've purchased the 7way bypass relay,TEB7AS,includes buzzer, 16.The lack of any definate answer,conflicting advice ,and the knowledge of people on this forum,persuaded me to fit one.I'm off on holiday for 2 weeks and I'll fit it on return.I'll take some photos and post them on here once I'm finished.To be honest the relay should probably be part of the standard fitting kit.

Many Thanks


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: Trolkar on June 23, 2010, 01:05:53 pm
Hi Colin

I've purchased the 7way bypass relay,TEB7AS,includes buzzer, 16.The lack of any definate answer,conflicting advice ,and the knowledge of people on this forum,persuaded me to fit one.I'm off on holiday for 2 weeks and I'll fit it on return.I'll take some photos and post them on here once I'm finished.To be honest the relay should probably be part of the standard fitting kit.

Many Thanks

I'm looking forward to the guide, and information on how to buy the relay. - I'm having serius problems with my blinkers, even after the wires have been solded.
There are now relay on my towbar.... - And the problems came around 3 weeks after towing a trailer...


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: colin4255 on June 23, 2010, 11:42:54 pm
Thanks chewbacca. Despite all the advice I have been given, I have yet to fit my towbar electrics. I too, would welcome a pictorial guide on how to fit a bypass relay before I fit mine. Where did you buy one for 16?

Trolkar - I am guessing if you  have fitted electrics for the towbar  with no relay and are having problems, it means you have screwed up the electrics now - it will most likely be the BIII unit that has been damaged.

My Renault dealer told me categorically, NOT to even try fitting towbar electrics without a proper bypass relay or it could cost me a fortune to repair the damage I would do to other parts of the electrical system.


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: chewbacca on June 30, 2010, 11:27:38 pm
Hi Colin

I purchased the relay from towequipe . I'm on holidays for a fortnight from this weekend,when I come back I'll fit the relay and post the information,with pictures on here.


Title: Re: Towbar Electrics 2000 2.2dt
Post by: chewbacca on July 16, 2010, 05:18:01 pm
Back from the holidays so time to fit the relay.I'll try and explain as best I can but I've taken some photos which are sometimes better.
It's not unlike fitting to an old style motor by connecting to the rear of the clusters, but instead connect the relay in between.Start by identifying the cables at the clusters to be connected to the relay.On my motor  the o/s flasher is white pin 1,the o/s tail lamp is blue pin 3,and the brake lamp is grey pin 2.The reverse lamp is also grey on pin5, I'm not using the reverse or fog light so I wasn't too concerned about them,but if you want to use them just add them in.The pin numbers are stamped into the plastic plugs.
On the n/s the flasher is grey pin6,and the n/s tail lamp is grey pin 2.The cables to the flasher ARE slightly smaller which tends to make me think that the assumption about them being fed from the B11 unit are correct.
I roughed it in using scotch loks,on the o/s leave about 12" before you join into the loom or you'll find it will foul the seatbelt tensioners,closer to the plug on the n/s.
You require to run a 2 core cable between the o/s and the n/s clusters,I located the relay in the o/s,in the compartment for the car jack.You also require a cable to feed the relay taken from the battery,so you need to run a cable from front to back,technically you only need a single cable to provide a + from the battery,the - being a good chassis grounding,but as youre going to the bother of running a cable from front to back you may aswell run a twin and get the - from the battery also,then no dodgey earths.
I didnt't have time to run one in permanently today but run a cable temporarily to test it out.It needs to be the correct rating(28/0.3) and fused I think at 15a,I'm using one of the line blade fuse holders.
I tested it ,it works ok ,so I've removed the scotch loks and soldered the wires in permanently and heat shrinked them in.Disconnect the battery before you start and double check youre connections before you power up.
pic 1 12N cable terminated into r/h side of the relay and the cables going from the l/h side of the relay to the clusters.The yellow and black cables are extended to the n/s cluster using the 2 core mentioned earlier.
pic 2 scotch loks at the n/s cluster.
pic 3+4 scotch loks at the o/s cluster.
pic 6+7+8 cables soldered and heat shrinked.
The + cable from the battery terminates into the 12v terminal in the relay.The - cable from the battery terminates with the other 2 white cables,one from the relay and one from the 12n cable,(common earth),instead of using the chassis as an earth.