MatraSport Forum

Each model => Murena => Topic started by: klumzer on January 17, 2012, 09:25:46 pm



Title: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 17, 2012, 09:25:46 pm
My restoration project has been proceeding and I also have some questions so I thought it is time to start a new topic.
The main goal is to restore the car to almost original condition.
The chassis got a new corrosion protection (epoxy primer and stone chip). Suspension is also repainted and most of the bushes will be changed to new. Brake calipers and a lot of parts are newly galvanised.
I know some parts of the chassis should not be painted but corrosion protection was more important for me than having a visible bare galvanised metal. After 30 years zinc coat has some small damages so it needed some action.
The engine block is in quite good condition but the head... hmm... now it is revived. Hopefully it will be good.
We changed the chain of the oil pump in the engine because it was quite loose. But the new one is also loose a bit. Is it possible to thigten it or we should change the wheels?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 18, 2012, 06:20:46 pm
more pics...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Morten Blom on January 18, 2012, 06:55:31 pm
I do not know anything about the chain, BUT wow it's an amazing job!
GREAT!  :D

Best regards Morten


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on January 19, 2012, 08:10:34 am
more pics...
Hi Klumzer.
I am seriously impressed. You are doing the job we all dream of and never quite get around to do. While we  just keep our cars going, you are ending up with an essentially better-than-new Murena. I look forward to seeing it at a meet.

About the chain to the oil pump. Besides new sprocket wheels, I see only two options if the chain is new and still loose.
You could have the sprocket wheels chrome plated, which will add a few thousands to the diameter and may take up the slack. However the surface would probably be harder and therefore wear the chain faster, so it is perhaps not the best option.
Another option could be to put a shim under the oil pump housing, thus increasing wheel distance and tightening the chain. I do not know if that will create problems for the oil pan fit, but you could verify the fit.
Regards. Jon.



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: uberprutser on January 19, 2012, 08:59:20 am
Wow, a lot of time went into that chassis. It looks brilliant.
But I'm not sure if it's a good idea to paint the surfaces too which will bond the rear quarter panels.
How are you going to treat the steel frame inside the doors? It guess it will be hard to get those up to your high standard.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: roy4matra on January 19, 2012, 11:00:53 am
My restoration project has been proceeding and I also have some questions so I thought it is time to start a new topic.
The main goal is to restore the car to almost original condition...

We changed the chain of the oil pump in the engine because it was quite loose. But the new one is also loose a bit. Is it possible to thigten it or we should change the wheels?

Hello Klumzer,

It's great to see someone prepared to spend some time and money on preserving these great cars.  Well done.

The oil pump chain was normally quite loose on the 2.2 even when new, so don't worry about it, as long as the chain or gears don't show excessive wear.  The method of making it less slack is to put some shims under the mounting to the block.  This was detailed in the workshop manual.

Roy


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 19, 2012, 08:56:12 pm
Thanks, but a lot of work remained...
Hopefully I will visit a meeting next year. This year I won't have time and money for it.

But I'm not sure if it's a good idea to paint the surfaces too which will bond the rear quarter panels.
How are you going to treat the steel frame inside the doors? It guess it will be hard to get those up to your high standard.

Yes, you are right, it is better to bond the panels to bare metal, but probably I damaged the zinc coat during removal and I do not want to have rust underneath them. I asked an expert before doing anything. He is a representative of a paint company and recommended me to use epoxy primer on the galvanised surface and I could glue the panels to the primer which is tough and rough enough for this procedure. Hopefully he was right. We will see it.
Door frame... hmm... I pondered a lot on it. It is a delicate point of the restoration, because the window rails are quite rusty. I think we will use a wire brush or wire disc to clean it and apply anticorrosive materials and coating. Sandblasting is also considered, but it may cause damage to the glass fibre.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 19, 2012, 09:23:29 pm

The oil pump chain was normally quite loose on the 2.2 even when new, so don't worry about it, as long as the chain or gears don't show excessive wear.  The method of making it less slack is to put some shims under the mounting to the block.  This was detailed in the workshop manual.


I only have a Dutch manual... but fortunately we have this forum with its helpful members. Thanks for everyone. :)

We used a shim but the chain is still loose a bit. The sprocket wheels look good so that is ok.



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 20, 2012, 06:24:24 pm
As I mentioned I want to keep the car in original condition, but I was thinking of installing an electric fuel pump, but...
Next year I want my car to take an old timer exam which excluded this type of modification in the fuel system, so I rejected this plan.
Now I am looking for a new mechanical fuel pump, because I do not want to use the old one. Although it worked, it is probably worn.
At the car parts dealer I could not find pump for Murena 2.2, only for Tagora, but it does not look the same. Mounting points and dimensions are the same. It has 1 inlet 1 outlet and an extra, an overflow-pipe (maybe it is not the right word)... According to the catalog it is for Tagora 2.2, but I suspect it is for the V6 engine...

Can it be used on the Murena 2.2? Or it has a high flow rate for the 2.2 engine?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: uberprutser on January 20, 2012, 06:40:57 pm
I have fuel pump from a Tagora on my car and it has only two fuel line connections and iis made from plastic.  I think you are right, this is probably for the V6 Tagora.

Edit: I just remembered, the V6 has two triple weber carburettors. This would explain the extra fuel line connection.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 21, 2012, 11:29:03 pm
Today we installed the front suspension. It looks good. :)

Looking at the rubber cooling hoses, I have to change some. Are there any alternative parts to replace them?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: suffolkpete on January 22, 2012, 10:35:27 am
Mounting points and dimensions are the same. It has 1 inlet 1 outlet and an extra, an overflow-pipe (maybe it is not the right word)... According to the catalog it is for Tagora 2.2, but I suspect it is for the V6 engine...

Can it be used on the Murena 2.2? Or it has a high flow rate for the 2.2 engine?
The third outlet is a return connection to the fuel tank, as fitted to the 1.6.  I think that if you look , you will find it has a very small outlet, about 0.7mm.  Talbots fitted the third connection in some markets, I don't know about the Tagora but Alpines and Solaras can be found with either three or two connections.  My parts book shows the 2.2 as having two connections to the pump, but you could probably use the three outlet pump  if you either blanked off the third connection or provided a return to the tank as on the 1.6


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 22, 2012, 08:40:44 pm
Yes, the third connection is smaller with a thin hole.
It was not easy, but after some searching I found a catalog of mechanical fuel pumps:

http://www.ptz.si/pdf/PTZ_Mechanical_pumps.pdf

Part number 4357 is for Murena 2.2 with 2 connections, page 66. Now I can look for it refer to part number. In the catalog of a spare parts dealer I found it like on the attached photo. Hopefully I can order one.

4294 is for Tagora V6 with 3 connections, page 64.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 23, 2012, 06:44:39 pm
It seems I have to change one of the pistons in the front brake calipers. If I know well it is also used in Citroen Visa and AX. Maybe in Visa GTi 1985-1991 and AX GTi 1991-1998. Am I right?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: roy4matra on January 24, 2012, 08:58:19 pm
Mounting points and dimensions are the same. It has 1 inlet 1 outlet and an extra, an overflow-pipe (maybe it is not the right word)... According to the catalog it is for Tagora 2.2, but I suspect it is for the V6 engine...

Can it be used on the Murena 2.2? Or it has a high flow rate for the 2.2 engine?

The third outlet is a return connection to the fuel tank, as fitted to the 1.6.  I think that if you look , you will find it has a very small outlet, about 0.7mm.  Talbots fitted the third connection in some markets, I don't know about the Tagora but Alpines and Solaras can be found with either three or two connections.  My parts book shows the 2.2 as having two connections to the pump...

Which is because the return to the tank on the 2.2 comes from the carburettor connection.  So you don't want a pump with a return on the 2.2 or if you did have one you would have to blank one of them off.

To explain for those that don't understand why it is there, the third small orifice connection is to stop any carburettor needle leakage as it shuts off, since the excess pressure is allowed back to the tank.

Roy


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 25, 2012, 07:21:33 pm
Now I am busy with the brake lines. I managed to buy new copper pipes and front hoses. I am looking for cheap alternative to replace the rear hoses.
As I realised it has a not so common end connection. Are there any other cars whiches use the same or similar?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: RazorbackNOR on January 25, 2012, 07:38:10 pm
They have a bit bigger banjos (amongst other things) than normal, which makes them a bit harder to have made locally.
A new set from some that have them in store doesn't set you back that much.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 25, 2012, 08:12:32 pm
First of all I collect information about the parts. I managed to save a lot of money so far...
Unfortunately my budget is quite tight so the more I save the more I can restore...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: RazorbackNOR on January 25, 2012, 08:27:58 pm
I was lucky enough since the previous owner had brought a set but not fitted, so I fitted them when I fixed the rest of the brakes.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JL on January 25, 2012, 09:50:12 pm
Hi

Use braided stainless steel hoses, they are very good and last for years(unless you put a hose clamp onto them!). I purchased mine from these people

 http://www.earls.co.uk/earls/index.html

they make full hose kits for the Murena.

Regards
John


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 26, 2012, 11:15:43 am
Quote
--------
It seems I have to change one of the pistons in the front brake calipers. If I know well it is also used in Citroen Visa and AX
=======================================================================================
I have that pistons in the front calipers and work excelent.
48 mm and same height.
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/36/p1020393medium.jpg)
Of course the new one was visa/104/ax


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 26, 2012, 05:10:51 pm
Quote
--------
It seems I have to change one of the pistons in the front brake calipers. If I know well it is also used in Citroen Visa and AX
=======================================================================================
I have that pistons in the front calipers and work excelent.
48 mm and same height.
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/36/p1020393medium.jpg)
Of course the new one was visa/104/ax

Thanks.
I saw that topic about Visa piston. I found a repair kit for Visa/AX GTi (Seinsa number: D4-1064C) and another only for AX (D4-969C) with 48mm piston. I do not know if the pistons are the same or not. I will try the first and will see...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on January 27, 2012, 11:19:07 am
Hi

Use braided stainless steel hoses, they are very good and last for years(unless you put a hose clamp onto them!). I purchased mine from these people

 http://www.earls.co.uk/earls/index.html

they make full hose kits for the Murena.

Regards
John
Hi John.

Judt checked Earls site for the brake hoses. He shows two Murena kits:
CMATMURENAFRRC   MATRA   Murena Front & Rear Kit
CMATMURENAFRRP   MATRA   Murena Front & Rear Kit
Which one did you get and do you know what is the difference?

regards.
Jon


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JL on January 27, 2012, 01:26:39 pm
Hi Jon

Frrc is the stainless code and frrp is for zinc plated, I used frrc and they were very good.

Regards
John


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 02, 2012, 06:12:23 pm
Does anyone know about equivalence between Espace and Murena wheel bearings?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on February 03, 2012, 12:45:47 am
Don't bother.
All 4 wheels have the same wheel bearing.
This seller has them for good price.
BRT384 wich is same as QWB231
I mounted one and are OK.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHRYSLER-ALPINE-HORIZON-SIMCA-WHEEL-BEARING-BRT384-/190419825739?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c55e7f44b


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 03, 2012, 09:31:29 pm
Thanks. It is really reasonable price.
I also found QWB231 kit on the e-bay for almost the same price.

The guy at the spare part shop recommended me a German Optimal kit, which is originally for Espace, but he stated that it would be good for Murena. That is why I asked...



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on February 04, 2012, 12:33:23 am
As far as my program tells me the bearing is used in Espace  1 and  2 as QWB-231.
Stay with the QWB-231 and  thereverified replacements and you be fine.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 26, 2012, 06:13:22 pm
Repair kits for the rear brake calipers arrived, but they do not look the same...
Does anyone fitted one as shown on the photo?

I also have the new fuel pump. It is more modern than the original, so hopefully it will be more reliable too.

One more question. Is there any alternative option to replace the speedo cable?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JL on February 26, 2012, 09:20:40 pm
This is a bit of a long shot but try pushing the seal inside out.

Regards
John


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on February 26, 2012, 09:59:30 pm
I din't try the seals, but in some kit the outer rubber is a tight fit.
Is de inner diameter of the seals around 45 mm?  because that is the size needed.

In the Belgium club we had the speedo cable remade. (25 peaces).
Price was around 27, but sold out at the moment.
There are firms that make one of for around  50.-


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 26, 2012, 10:05:06 pm
I supposed something like that. It is still small (rubber inside-out in the middle of the photo), but elastic enough to install. I will try this way.

Yes, the kit is for a 45mm piston, so the inner seal fits perfectly. It was chosen from the catalog of the manufacturer. I thought it will be very similar to the original, but the gaiter is quite different.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on February 26, 2012, 10:12:22 pm
I heared it before, but it seems to fit OK.
Some members fitted it on a Bagheera with the same questions you had.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 26, 2012, 10:18:19 pm
Yes, this kit is also recommended for Bagheera...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 28, 2012, 05:16:42 pm
Quote
It seems I have to change one of the pistons in the front brake calipers. If I know well it is also used in Citroen Visa and AX
==========================================================I have that pistons in the front calipers and work excelent.
48 mm and same height.
Of course the new one was visa/104/ax

I tried to find pistons for the front calipers, but available repair kits for Citroens and Peugeots contains different ones. They are longer, 49 and 54mm instead of the original 44mm. Unfortunately it is almost impossible to find used ones here so I had to look for a good replacement. I find one which is used on Opel Ascona B.

Diameter is also 48mm and it is 43,6mm high, but the end is not flat and the groove for the lip of the gaiter is not so broad as the original so some turning was needed (unfortunately I forgot to take a photo of it.)

Now it is almost the same, height is 42,6mm, gaiter fits ok. Hopefully it will work perfectly.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 28, 2012, 08:44:05 pm
Some parts are revived and some ready to install... :)

Lights have new silvered layer, spotlights' housings and bulb plates newly galvanised. Unfortunately the housings were too rusty, some cavitation left, but after installation it will be invisible...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JV on February 29, 2012, 08:12:52 am
Beautiful


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on February 29, 2012, 09:00:01 am
Diameter is also 48mm and it is 43,6mm high, but the end is not flat and the groove for the lip of the gaiter is not so broad as the original so some turning was needed (unfortunately I forgot to take a photo of it.)

Now it is almost the same, height is 42,6mm, gaiter fits ok. Hopefully it will work perfectly.

I was thinking about turning completely new pistons in stainless steel. Before I do I need to figure out if stainless steel has a higher expansion factor than the originals. Would not want the pistons to stick in a hot caliper. :o
Do any of you know if this is the case?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on February 29, 2012, 09:34:57 am
I saw I didn't ad a list of cars where this piston is used on this forum.

Well, better late then never.

CITRO - VISA - 0.6 07.82-03.91
CITRO - VISA - 0.6 09.78-06.88
CITRO - VISA - 1.0 09.84-06.88
CITRO - VISA - 11 E 09.78-06.88
CITRO - VISA - 11 E 07.82-03.91
CITRO - VISA - 11 E 09.78-03.91
CITRO - VISA - II Super X 07.80-06.82
CITRO - VISA - 14 07.84-03.91
CITRO - VISA - 14 GT 03.82-03.87
CITRO - VISA - 14 GT 03.82-03.91
CITRO - VISA Convertible - 11 RE 03.83-10.88
CITRO - LNA - 0.6 07.82-04.85
CITRO - LNA - 0.6 11.78-07.82
CITRO - LNA - 1.1 07.82-04.85
PEUGE - 104 - 0.9 10.72-10.79 01.75
PEUGE - 104 - 0.9 10.79-10.83
PEUGE - 104 - 1.1 08.80-06.88
PEUGE - 104 - 1.1 07.76-08.82
PEUGE - 104 - 1.1 09.78-09.79
PEUGE - 104 - 1.2 08.79-06.83
PEUGE - 104 - 1.4 08.79-06.83
PEUGE - 104 Coupe - 0.9 09.73-10.83
PEUGE - 104 Coupe - 1.1 08.75-06.80
PEUGE - 104 Coupe - 1.1 08.79-06.88
PEUGE - 104 Coupe - 1.1 08.79-06.83
PEUGE - 104 Coupe - 1.1 09.73-09.79
PEUGE - 104 Coupe - 1.4 08.79-06.84
PEUGE - 304 (_04M_) - 1.4 D (M20) 10.76-10.79
PEUGE - 304 Break (_04D_) - 1.4 D 10.76-10.79
PEUGE - 305 (581A) - 1.3 11.77-09.82
PEUGE - 305 (581A) - 1.3 11.77-09.82
PEUGE - 305 (581A) - 1.5 11.79-09.82
PEUGE - 305 (581A) - 1.5 05.80-09.82
PEUGE - 305 (581A) - 1.5 Diesel 11.77-09.82
PEUGE - 305 Estate (581D) - 1.3 08.80-09.82
PEUGE - 305 Estate (581D) - 1.5 08.80-09.82

The original Peugeot number for the piston = 4448.37

Also the calipers for the front are still for sale.
http://brake-caliper.net/brakecalipers_1100_1980_1985_TALBO_MURENA_brake_caliper.html


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 29, 2012, 05:08:03 pm
Thanks for the list, but those are very rare cars here so it is almost impossible to find used pistons.
I checked repair kits with pistons and find one for Citroen Visa and another one for Peugeot 305 (only for models after 1982), but those contain different pistons. As I mentioned length is 49mm and 54mm and other dimensions are also different.
The most similar what  I found is for Zastava, but also longer, 50mm, but all other dimensions are the same.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 29, 2012, 09:04:37 pm
One of my side mirrors was unserviceable. Since I wanted to keep them, I bought a used one as a spare. Fortunately I could replace the broken gears and the missing parts, but I realised that all inner discs have cracks. Probably those are the weakest point of the mechanism because of the metal inserts and the corner of the square hole. I wanted to change them, but only a full repair kit is available so I tried to make it myself.
Since it does not have complicated shape I used a full disc as a cast and made a mould from two component silicone rubber. Next I used epoxy resin to form the new parts. I also made one for "crash test". It seems very tough so hopefully I can extend the life of the mirrors.

Maybe it can help some of you...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JV on March 01, 2012, 03:00:50 pm
Well done.



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 04, 2012, 01:29:04 pm
Just a stupid question:
There is a cover on the B pillar between the side windows installed by four pop rivets.
In the original sales brochure (year 1982) the rivets have black heads on a red car. Was it normal?

Since my car was repainted I could not see it...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 23, 2012, 09:32:36 pm
In the Belgium club we had the speedo cable remade. (25 peaces).
Price was around 27, but sold out at the moment.
There are firms that make one of for around  50.-

Could anyone send a photo of the speedo cable which shows the endings?
Mine was damaged when I bought the car. Now I want to have it remanufactured, but I would like to provide a good picture for the expert as an example.

Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on March 24, 2012, 10:07:52 am
It took some time but found the pics.
What I didn't find is the spare cable and the end plastic at the gauge side.
It is somewere around here but so much stuff floating around.
If I find I wil provide the extra picture needed.
So far I found this in my archive.

This is gauge side, but there is a bigger plastic to hook it to the gauge.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AXEm8GIKZ5Y/T22L_8ORAOI/AAAAAAAACTs/bgmWCPBvO7Y/s640/p1000195ay2.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nNMqvqOesIU/T22L_4iGh8I/AAAAAAAACTw/EZJHNhlYv-8/s640/p1000194fk8.jpg)

This is wheelside.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SpkqoqUtK1c/T22MCz0z1zI/AAAAAAAACUU/hUYJa_-i7kw/s640/remk3fr2.jpg)

If you mount the cable then start at gaugeside.
It is a struggle to to mount it if wheelside is connected.
You end up with a damaged cable.
Also the cable is just swinging around.
I made a extra mounting point to keep it stable.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3UJ0mO_9MTo/T22MBi7QniI/AAAAAAAACUA/MVNKuYOZRvU/s800/p1020506medium.jpg)

Good luck, and if I find the rest of the stuff I will provide the extra picture needed.

Greetz


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 24, 2012, 03:26:39 pm
Thank you.
I was sure that you have some photos... :)

Now I know that the gauge side was complete in my car. But some parts are missing at the wheel side. As it was unserviceable for years the cable is rotted into the housing and cannot be removed.
On Monday I will contact a manufacturer.

Restoration process is going on, but now we are waiting for the lower engine bushes. If we got them, the engine could be mounted into the car. But there is still a lot to do...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on March 24, 2012, 05:26:51 pm
The cable can be rusted and not coming out.
Normaly you can pull it out easy.
You can take a angle grinder and make the surface flat.
Then use a driver to get it out.
This picture is left Bagheera and right Murena.
The later Bagheera had the same as the Murena.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mJUmURIBTmM/T2307kbvMVI/AAAAAAAACUs/UaH0peOhtdU/s640/kabel_uit_de_wielas__small__550.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-sf69Nl10-Nw/T232ifut1yI/AAAAAAAACVA/Yp9-H_RhUmg/s640/kabel_uit_de_wielas__small__550-2.jpg)
Pics Godfried Belgium club.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on April 09, 2012, 02:49:49 pm
Has anyone tried one of these washer bottles?
If yes, some photos (after installation) would be appreciated...
Thanks.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1x-1-4-litre-Universal-Washer-Bottle-Pump-Combo-Windscreen-Window-Car-New-12v-/350545733911?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item519e276917

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380403768386?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

If I am not mistaken, the last one can be bought at matramagic.co.uk...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on April 09, 2012, 04:36:17 pm
Yep this one.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290407380241?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Pic not found in my collection yet, but I know you have to drill a hole at the spot the original is placed.
The electrics are a straight fit.

Greetings Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on April 10, 2012, 06:59:43 am
Searching............................Found.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-plYXoYzzmzk/T4O9rURKMWI/AAAAAAAAD1g/_RInxA_269U/s640/Reservoir%25202.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i0F1GPm2XPE/T4O9rZPLdeI/AAAAAAAAD1c/UBBkWl3Ytzw/s800/Reservoir%25201.jpg)



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on April 10, 2012, 09:00:57 am
Thank you.
It looks quite good.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 05, 2012, 02:10:58 pm
Could anyone write me the dimensions of the 'Talbot-Matra' decal on the back of the car?
I need the total length and height. And a good photo of it also would be appreciated.

Mine was missing when I bought the car...
Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JV on May 05, 2012, 05:56:20 pm
http://www.matra-passion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=482&p=93087&hilit=monogramme#p93087

Simon catalogue nr 14072


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 05, 2012, 09:02:44 pm
If I could speak French....   ::)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on May 05, 2012, 11:19:45 pm
The car is not at hand at the moment, beside that I hold bed because I am ill.
Be patient and I will make some close up pics with measurements.

Greetings Oetker.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 06, 2012, 09:49:20 am
Oh, I am sorry to hear that you are ill. Get better!



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JV on May 06, 2012, 11:40:24 am
If I could speak French....   ::)

Of course, but I just wanted to show you the font type. One of the pictures shows it quite well.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: GP on May 06, 2012, 07:25:14 pm
Could anyone write me the dimensions of the 'Talbot-Matra' decal on the back of the car?
I need the total length and height. And a good photo of it also would be appreciated.

Mine was missing when I bought the car...
Thanks in advance.

I have just had a brand new set scanned, reproduced and also put on CD. Will be picking it next week and will post it on the forum with dimensions.

GP


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 06, 2012, 09:07:42 pm
That's great! Thanks in advance!


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 08, 2012, 08:25:25 pm
There is something what I forgot...  ::)

What are those rivets for? Something should be on the other side....

Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: GP on May 09, 2012, 12:34:08 pm
Some brace bars are mounted inside the wings. Pictures attached.

I have a couple of rusty spares if you want them?

GP


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 09, 2012, 05:17:08 pm
Thanks.
I found the bars among the galvanised spares. Now I know how to install them.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: GP on May 09, 2012, 08:41:39 pm
If I could speak French....   ::)

Of course, but I just wanted to show you the font type. One of the pictures shows it quite well.

I have attached a PDF File which shows the font type and a photo.

The 2.2 shown is not a good reproduction but the murena and TALBOT - MATRA are pretty spot on.

Length and height of the TALBOT - MATRA is 520mm x 44mm.

Hope this helps.

Graham



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on May 09, 2012, 08:55:07 pm
There is almost no character with the same width size.
I think it's best to order this with the specific dealers to get it right.
I have seen more copy's that are a bad reproduction.
Especial the M and O are different.



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on May 09, 2012, 09:00:27 pm
Csaba the beer arrived and it made me smile.
The last time I was in hungary it was before the fall of the iron curtain.
This luxury beer was not for sale as far as I remember and most of the time I got Tuborrg witch I didn't like.
I always went to the local beerhouses and drunk the local misty beers.
I liked them very much.

Thank you I will wait for a nice day with good weather to drink it.

Cheers.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 09, 2012, 09:04:11 pm
Thanks GP. Yes, it helps.

I have a friend who has equipment to reproduce the decals. I think it will cost some beers so it worth a try. :)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 09, 2012, 09:09:25 pm
Csaba the beer arrived and it made me smile.
The last time I was in hungary it was before the fall of the iron curtain.
This luxury beer was not for sale as far as I remember and most of the time I got Tuborrg witch I didn't like.
I always went to the local beerhouses and drunk the local misty beers.
I liked them very much.

Thank you I will wait for a nice day with good weather to drink it.

Cheers.


You are welcome.

'before the fall of the iron curtain' - That time I was a child, but still remember the old beers (only the bottles, not the taste). :)
I hope you feel much better.

Cheers.

Today I installed the small part in the headlight, tomorrow I will seal the glass. Thanks again.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 11, 2012, 10:36:57 pm
Does the roof antenna have equivalence with any cars?
Otherwise I have to revive the original...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on May 12, 2012, 12:40:11 am
This looks pretty close to the original.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-CITROEN-ROOF-AERIAL-106-205-206-306-406-SAXO-/220288223217?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item334a3387f1



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 12, 2012, 08:26:35 pm
Thanks. Today I saw some cars with similiar antennas so I will do some research before buying.

Some pictures of my project. Wiring is a bit tidy but getting better... :)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on May 14, 2012, 11:06:53 pm
Looks nice and tidy.
I filled my connectors with vaseline acidfree.
It makes the wiring water resistant.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GUuFV4quMIk/T29jHcA6aZI/AAAAAAAACtw/WB8gGgMOGVw/s800/SANY0100.JPG)
Then take a piece oft bike tire.
It will prevent corrosion wich is a weak point in the connectors.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Uxx8-ie26sk/T29jIG35toI/AAAAAAAACt0/dJ7IPAmFMrw/s800/SANY0102.JPG)

Some other pics of soldering new spades and relais.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TCdoW5sc9zk/T29jGCV-KcI/AAAAAAAACtY/mBaLN7faoZs/s800/SANY0098.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EBn4Jk47JlI/T29jDwMyHyI/AAAAAAAACtE/g5pZbdFBMtA/s800/P1010428.JPG)

Because of always back coming problems I did this.
Perfect solution.
No more probs there.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1RnszYqAjgc/T29i2VIG3DI/AAAAAAAACrM/-fHScsanNTk/s800/P1010397.JPG)




Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: RazorbackNOR on May 15, 2012, 01:27:21 pm

Because of always back coming problems I did this.
Perfect solution.
No more probs there.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1RnszYqAjgc/T29i2VIG3DI/AAAAAAAACrM/-fHScsanNTk/s800/P1010397.JPG)




Ehm... what excactly did you do to it.....?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on May 15, 2012, 04:06:23 pm

Because of always back coming problems I did this.
Perfect solution.
No more probs there.


Ehm... what excactly did you do to it.....?

Took the connectors off and soldered the wires on the print.
Therefore I drilled holes and sticked the wires in.
On the upper side of the print I made tin bubble so there is no stress on the print itself.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4UlpMIwbTXU/T29jRC4GrNI/AAAAAAAACuc/4gryMdnez2E/s800/P1010400.JPG)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on May 15, 2012, 08:23:16 pm
Thank you for the tips.
I have already read some of them on the forum. The bike tube is a pretty good idea to replace the old shreddy rubber.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on June 02, 2012, 08:14:16 pm
I got the engine mounting bushes at last.  :)
Those were the most difficult things to get so far...

I have a question concerning the gearbox mounting point. What should be there exactly between the mounting plates on the chassis?
There are inserts pressed into each side of the inner ring and I have some spacers with different thickness. But I can see something in the parts catalog, 'spielbegrenzer - 02021'. What is it?



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on June 03, 2012, 09:33:12 pm
Here is the fig what I am talking about...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on June 03, 2012, 11:21:50 pm
Wasn't there yet because no problems on that side, but as far as I can see and translate it is a play limiter.
On that point you have to center the engine with spacers, but the way it's described I don't understand completely.
You have to bring something in line???? with something????
Have no time to go to the bottom of it because my plane leaves in a few hours for my holiday.

Greetz Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on June 04, 2012, 05:11:15 pm
Thanks. Have a nice trip and holiday!  8)

I have the two inserts into the inner ring, maybe I have to line the spacers with them...
I thought that there should be something because if you overtorque the bolt you can bend the center of the mounting plates in.

If anyone has experience with this part, please write me. Thanks.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: GP on June 07, 2012, 11:49:17 am
I got the engine mounting bushes at last.  :)
Those were the most difficult things to get so far...

I have a question concerning the gearbox mounting point. What should be there exactly between the mounting plates on the chassis?
There are inserts pressed into each side of the inner ring and I have some spacers with different thickness. But I can see something in the parts catalog, 'spielbegrenzer - 02021'. What is it?



The spielbeggrenzer - 02021 is the metal ring on the outside of the rubber bush. This levers off the aluminium casting if you need to work on the assembly if I remember correctly.
Add the spacer washers to suit either side so that the mounting plates are not bent in when tightening.

GP

P.S. You may notice in the first picture a remote breather filter for the gearbox.
With the factory standard white plastic breather mounted directly on top of the gearbox oil would come out of this. This was due to the Quaife ATB fitted and chucking the car around tight corners ( and into Armco) with List 1B competition tyres fitted.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on June 07, 2012, 08:39:22 pm
Thanks for the answer GP. And the photos show everything for me.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on June 27, 2012, 09:35:35 pm
After reviving the side mirrors inside I refurbished the shells and the mounting plates. I used a special black plastic paint which makes rough surface and looks like the original. The paint is quite tough and resistant against mechanical influence, I tested it. :)

http://www.mipa-paints.com/gb/product/prodinfo/produkt2392.html

I am satisfied with the result. :)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on June 27, 2012, 09:53:01 pm
Looking good.
I used this kind of paints also to restore my strips and endcaps on the bumper with good results.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-XNgDHJhN3Ec/T2rovPtjV5I/AAAAAAAABnY/YWrFCkCQeyM/s800/P1030085.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZAXvpAzTIdQ/T2rpf4fpfZI/AAAAAAAABrQ/n8rW3YOFv5E/s800/P1030159.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-A1c798af6Oc/T2rpk-zllHI/AAAAAAAABro/W7rN7kuDkSs/s800/P1030163.JPG)
Cleaning with thinner and made smooth wth fine sandpaper.
4 layers of paint and it looks like new.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on June 28, 2012, 07:05:11 pm
Nice.
...and you have an apprentice on the first photo. ;D


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on June 28, 2012, 08:18:42 pm
In the Belgium club he is Matra-cat.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-f7lldyT_Zfc/T3S5sUhWXOI/AAAAAAAADNI/Y6-GT1uQKq0/s800/P1010457.JPG)

He loves all Matra stuff I have,
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-w449xu9rrek/T-ycXMo7KRI/AAAAAAAAD7k/Dy0RvFHOcg0/s800/P1030792%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l2ZIg-Gp8LI/T-yckvbCD6I/AAAAAAAAD78/R36bXBdsqJI/s800/P1030804%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Vwg7h4RaiDk/T3S5o9Hd96I/AAAAAAAADMM/44wLkYusHc8/s800/P1010270.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Y5GsbXKM5gI/T3S5x3FOcwI/AAAAAAAADOM/0HoC6QIMf4k/s800/P1020907.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5kV4UP4PN18/T3S5j4fCoYI/AAAAAAAADLI/yW_OWxkNWMc/s800/P1010218.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZF5i8cOuNLw/T3S5m_86h6I/AAAAAAAADL8/SAqQaHyj3xE/s800/P1010239.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-I38mtO2Irks/T3S5psOGLmI/AAAAAAAADMY/rp2UC0Bgr6k/s800/P1010324.JPG)

disaprove things not Matra.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-c6QuKvSjKgs/T3S59hPjrBI/AAAAAAAADQ0/eCtSYnP0JeE/s800/krkcat.jpg)

Guarding my Matra-stuff
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2AmKZvLi29w/T3S59Osu3FI/AAAAAAAADQs/XHAISikEmGY/s800/katbew2.jpg)

Watchin me not throw anything away.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N8MavMnVrgA/T3VcJDvlVxI/AAAAAAAADcU/EJhIZfTxHBg/s500/P1030930.JPG)

Most of all, he like to sleep in the Matra chairs.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bq5-zLIkToo/T-ycSKGBOzI/AAAAAAAAD7c/0UZxGG9pYR0/s800/P1030546%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4YmgdOtgVwc/T-yg3bzP5qI/AAAAAAAAD8g/0XXmSEBnhQs/s800/P1050020%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)






Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on June 28, 2012, 08:38:34 pm
 :)
I see, he always helps you in the garage. And he seems to be in very good shape. :)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on June 28, 2012, 08:45:17 pm
8 kilo British shorthair is not abnormal  ;D
They always are big cats.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-iXItjmUZ5og/T-yl6d8LefI/AAAAAAAAD8s/1irusljcLMo/s800/P1010391%2520%2528Medium%2529.JPG)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on June 28, 2012, 09:09:21 pm
 :o

This "type" of cats are not so common in Hungary. We have "normal" domestic cats. The biggest one was only 5 kilos. Now we have a kitten...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on June 28, 2012, 09:30:39 pm
So lovely.
The kitten has a beauty-full print.
They look   European shorthair like.
We had 2 in the past reaching age 22 years.
The British short hair mostly pass out around 10-12 years.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on July 20, 2012, 07:09:19 pm
After some waiting the engine went back to the car and it runs. But there is a problem...

At idle the cooling effectivity is not enough and the water starts boiling in the engine.
At higher rev it works normally and the temperature is max 90 degrees. If we increase the rev before boiling, the temperature goes down to normal.
What can be the problem? Maybe some air trapped somewhere in the circuit?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on July 20, 2012, 09:54:58 pm
I presume you have the system under pressure? (cap on expansion bottle)
Ventilator at radiator jumps in?

Looks like to little flow in the system
Water-pump belt slipping?
What waterpump is in? Tagora?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on July 20, 2012, 11:24:15 pm
Looks like to little flow in the system

Yes, exactly.

The cap was on. I have the same bottle like you. Ventilator works normally at higher rev. Water pump is the original revived by a specialist so it must be ok. Belt is brand new, no slipping... It seems the hot water does not go to the cooler at idle.. The thermostat ok, not new but works properly.
I suspect air bubbles somewhere in the system, but where?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on July 20, 2012, 11:52:43 pm
Are you sure the thermostat opens in time.
You can feel that by feeling the temp of the hose that comes out.
Is the hose narrower installed properly?




Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on July 21, 2012, 11:09:38 am
Now I am on holiday so I can not test the system but I would like to collect ideas what to check when I go home. I worry about it a bit...
Which hose narrower do you mean?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 21, 2012, 11:59:17 am
I think the problem is not flow but that it can't keep pressure - i.e. I suspect you have a water or air leak somewhere in the system. Increased flow (until a certain point) means more cold water through the engine and the temperature drops and boiling stops, but this only works until the engine is really hot. When the system is pressurized, the temperature can go over 100 deg C and it won't boil.

Finding the leak can be difficult since it may not be clearly visible on the engine - small amounts of water are very difficult to see. I had a leak around the timing chain cover on my 2.2 some years ago, and I was luckly  spotting it when it sprayed the water out - the engine is idling in this photo.

(http://gallery.dinsen.net/d/2774-3/DSCF0027.JPG)

This very small leak gave me the exact same problem as you have now.

But it could also be a cracked hose, a pipe, or as simple as the cap not fitting tightly on the header tank. It doens't even have to leak water - if air is leaking out the system somewhere, the pressure can't increase over 1 bar, and you're in trouble (boiling!)

A bit to think about there...

Have a great holiday,
/Anders


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on July 21, 2012, 12:13:35 pm
The narrower is mounted in the hose that goes to the top of the expansion tank and comes from the thermostat house.
(http://www.simon-auto-shop.com/artikelbilder/06061.jpg)
I don't know what it does if it is not mounted, but could be that that it does something with the circulation in the system.
And as Anders say, a small leak can lead to this problem.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 21, 2012, 01:10:06 pm
I don't know what it does if it is not mounted, but could be that that it does something with the circulation in the system.

It doesn't do anything except connecting the 6 mm vent hose from the thermostat housing to the 16 mm connection on the top of the header tank. I've got a refabricated header tank with a 6 mm connection. The hose is there to vent out air out of the cooling system from the thermostat housing.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on July 21, 2012, 02:30:59 pm
Thanks.

So, the narrower can not cause this problem...

The engine was disassambled, cleaned and all gaskets are replaced. Almost all cooling hoses are new, others are in good shape, new clamps. I do not have the original header tank it is from Renault 19/Clio the same as Oetker has.

I think it will not be easy to solve this problem. Thanks for all advice, I will check for small leakage and the header cap first when I go home.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on July 21, 2012, 02:53:21 pm

It doesn't do anything except connecting the 6 mm vent hose from the thermostat housing to the 16 mm connection on the top of the header tank. I've got a refabricated header tank with a 6 mm connection. The hose is there to vent out air out of the cooling system from the thermostat housing.

It has a function.
It is to cut of flow a bit.
Th water-flow was to strong without the narrower, generating air in the system at the expansion bottle.
This air get trapped at the heater core generating irritating sounds.
According to the manual updates it is part of a modification.

I never tried, but I think using a thermostat with automatic degasser would be a good solution to get trapped air out.
The hose with the tap can be replaced by one without.
A experiment for later, because at the moment no need to work there.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on July 21, 2012, 03:22:17 pm
Ok, I will also check the narrower. It should be mounted with the larger end pointing to the header.

By the way, what is the normal water temperature at idle in Murena 2.2? And during normal use?

I have a VW Golf III for daily use, it has quite constant water temperature about 90 degrees. In winter at -20 C it is 85 degrees, in summer above +35 C it is 90 degrees (maximum 92 at high load). It does not matter if the engine is at idle or on motorway. So it is strange for me, that the water boiling at idle in Murena...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on July 21, 2012, 07:55:26 pm
Ok, I will also check the narrower. It should be mounted with the larger end pointing to the header.

By the way, what is the normal water temperature at idle in Murena 2.2? And during normal use?

I have a VW Golf III for daily use, it has quite constant water temperature about 90 degrees. In winter at -20 C it is 85 degrees, in summer above +35 C it is 90 degrees (maximum 92 at high load). It does not matter if the engine is at idle or on motorway. So it is strange for me, that the water boiling at idle in Murena...

My water temp at idle goes up to 95C then the vent kicks in and it drops back to around 85C.
It takes more then 5 miles for the car to warm up to around 80C

It is a bit difficult to get all air out the system at first.
a while ago I refilled the system andreplaced a hose and had exactly the same boiling.
Once the thermostat had opend it was OK.
Trapped air can be a bit difficult with this cars.
Maybe after your holyday the problem is vanished ;)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on July 21, 2012, 10:03:30 pm
Maybe after your holyday the problem is vanished ;)

:) I hope so.

Up to 95C, so it should not boil... It is a really annoying problem. After changing a lot of parts to new ones and it does not work. But it can be solved so positive thinking! :)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 22, 2012, 07:54:11 am
The water temperature can be higher inside the cylinder head than the reading in the termostat housing, so you can't conclude that there will be no boiling just because the temperature is below 100 deg C. If the system is not pressurised perfectly, there will be localised boiling in hot areas, e.g. on top of the combustion chambers. Localised boiling is very problematic because boiling water has little or nor cooling effect, but in a properly pressurised system, localised boiling doesn't happen.

About the reducer in the vent hose: I didn't know that there had been a modification of this, but it sounds likely. Note that the reducer connects the 6 mm hose exiting from the side of the thermostat housing to the 16 mm hose on the header tank, so it's the other way around compared to what you mention below.

A recommendation: When you get home and start looking for the problem, don't exclude any parts just because you're sure they're done right - e.g. changing gaskets always involves a risk that the new gasket fails after a short while. I'd start with where pressure is generated: The water pump, looking very carefully for any signs of leaking water. Then working my way forward to the engine, cylinder head, thermostat etc.

By the way, how was the engine sealed? With the original paper gaskets?

Positive thinking, yes that's just what you need! And some systematic fault finding and experimentation :)

/Anders


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on July 22, 2012, 11:36:53 am
Thanks for the tips.

I bought a complete gasket kit from Glaser, including some paper gaskets.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 05, 2012, 06:28:20 pm
My water temp at idle goes up to 95C then the vent kicks in and it drops back to around 85C.
It takes more then 5 miles for the car to warm up to around 80C

It is a bit difficult to get all air out the system at first.
a while ago I refilled the system andreplaced a hose and had exactly the same boiling.
Once the thermostat had opend it was OK.
Trapped air can be a bit difficult with this cars.
Maybe after your holyday the problem is vanished ;)

So, the problem is almost vanished. We managed to get out some air from the system, now it is much better. But I have to change one of the hoses at the top of the thermostat housing. When the thermostat opens, it is leaking... :( Probably we have both problem, air in the system and bad pressurization.

Another interesting thing with the Clio expansion bottle: We filled it a bit above the "Min" marking. After starting the engine first (cold engine) the level was decreasing and the water disappeared from the bottle. We filled a small amount of water to the bottle. When the engine became hot the bottle was full without any air... Water did not come out at the cap.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 05, 2012, 06:41:33 pm
I have just found another topic with Oetker's post concerning the right cap for the Clio bottle. It should be yellow, but I have a dark brown one... I do not know the pressure when it opens. Maybe it should be changed...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 05, 2012, 06:45:09 pm
Nice to hear it is OK.
I am driving the car daily at the moment and the Clio expansion bottle works perfect also when it is 30 degree Celsius.
If you fill the bottle when cold as is showed in movie I provided it works OK.
You need the cap with the peugeot number I provided.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 05, 2012, 06:59:37 pm
This is the cap you need.
In the link the cars it is mounted.

http://www.ebay.it/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260909807394


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 05, 2012, 07:48:47 pm
Thanks.
I found that one (attached picture). It is probably the same, and I can buy it at a shop in the town.

I suspect the current cap may be wrong. It may keep too high pressure.

Why did not water come out at the cap when the bottle was full? It is still strange for me...

The next problem will be to set the carburettor....


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 05, 2012, 07:52:51 pm
One more question. Is it possible to find a thermostat which opens at lower temperature?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 05, 2012, 08:19:43 pm
Thanks.
I found that one (attached picture). It is probably the same, and I can buy it at a shop in the town.

I suspect the current cap may be wrong. It may keep too high pressure.

Why did not water come out at the cap when the bottle was full? It is still strange for me.

Maybe to high pressure is needed to open the cap.
Only the cap with the Peugeot number is right.
It opens 2 ways.
When pressure is above 0.7-0.8bar and when water cool down it let air in.
This is important to avoid underpressure that can generate air in the sytem.
You can test it this way  ;)  just suck on it andd air has to come in.

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7037/p1020979medium.jpg)

Not the most charming picture... I know I suck....



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 05, 2012, 08:21:37 pm
One more question. Is it possible to find a thermostat which opens at lower temperature?

What is in there now?

There is 88 and 82 celsius as far as I know.
I have the 82 one


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 05, 2012, 08:51:15 pm
What is in there now?

There is 88 and 82 celsius as far as I know.
I have the 82 one

To tell the truth I did not check it. It worked before the restoration so I thought it is ok. But if there is a thermostat with lower opening point, it would be better I think. I will check mine next time.
It was 36 C today here. Weather forecast predict 39-40 for tomorrow...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 05, 2012, 08:56:39 pm

Maybe to high pressure is needed to open the cap.
Only the cap with the Peugeot number is right.
It opens 2 ways.
When pressure is above 0.7-0.8bar and when water cool down it let air in.
This is important to avoid underpressure that can generate air in the sytem.
You can test it this way  ;)  just suck on it andd air has to come in.

Not the most charming picture... I know I suck....


Ok, I see clearly now. If I want a Murena running like a clock, I have to suck! :)

I suspect, that I have to high pressure in the system which may have caused the leakage of the hose...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 05, 2012, 09:01:51 pm
What is in there now?

There is 88 and 82 celsius as far as I know.
I have the 82 one

To tell the truth I did not check it. It worked before the restoration so I thought it is ok. But if there is a thermostat with lower opening point, it would be better I think. I will check mine next time.
It was 36 C today here. Weather forecast predict 39-40 for tomorrow...


That is extemely hot for this mid-engined car.
In that climate you defenilely need the 82C one and if still problem make a switch to overrule the thermo-contact on the radiator.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 06, 2012, 05:40:13 pm
I tried to look for thermostats for my car, but did not find in the catalog.

Is it the same as in Peugeot 505 with similar engine? It is still in the catalog.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 06, 2012, 05:53:52 pm
My car bible say yes and also other talbots and the Peugeot 309
And according to it, it has Peugeot number 1337.53


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 06, 2012, 11:19:15 pm
And what about the top of the thermostat housing (nr. 06043)? Is it also common with other Talbot or Peugeot cars?
Mine is a bit eroded at the hose connection. Maybe I should also change it...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 06, 2012, 11:46:32 pm
And what about the top of the thermostat housing (nr. 06043)? Is it also common with other Talbot or Peugeot cars?
Mine is a bit eroded at the hose connection. Maybe I should also change it...

The Murena parts book gives Peugeot number 1337.80
Not verified by me if it is corrrect.
Bagheera Simca and Murena 1.6 give different numbers so it's not the same I supose..
That is all I can tell about it.

Greetz herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 07, 2012, 05:50:52 pm
Ok, thanks. But it is also impossible to find parts for a Peugeot 505 here... :(

Fortunately Simon has that part in stock. I have to order the cooling hose with the bleed valve so I can also buy it.

Today I bought a new thermostat with lower opening temperature, 81C. I hope it fits.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 13, 2012, 07:04:44 pm
Now I am busy with the rubber strips.
Some of them are shorter than they should. The strips on the rear side windows and on the C pillars. It seems they have shrunk during the years. Is it a common problem?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JL on August 13, 2012, 09:06:25 pm
Yes!

Regards
John


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 13, 2012, 09:19:32 pm
Is it possible to stretch them?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 13, 2012, 09:50:13 pm
Not realy, probably they break because of age.
I looked for some time for something that would fit, but afterer several things between bumper and chassis still not satisfied.
At the moment I have door edge strip, but not realy a wow feeling.
I think you are on your own in this case.



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 13, 2012, 10:52:07 pm
Not realy, probably they break because of age.


Bad news...
But I have nothing to loose so I will try it.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JL on August 13, 2012, 11:06:22 pm
Make sure you get them very warm, then stretch and try to hold them while they cool. The strip that runs from the screen to the rear of the car ended up 25mm short when I rebuilt my car.

Regards
John


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 14, 2012, 06:11:55 pm
This works OK for the front screen.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2msOfqvuTMQ/T3X70v-mW_I/AAAAAAAADrs/5zVsBMLVykk/s800/P1000896.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-L4TeRGwkFcA/T3X7rtUzQQI/AAAAAAAADp8/2ViUOTB4x0s/s800/P1000874.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cjos0KkRxhc/T3X7sIteA0I/AAAAAAAADqE/BTJ2RcjVHyA/s800/P1000877.JPG)

It is for mobil homes/caravans and normaly placed in a alu strip.
It is on the car for a few years now.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TYO-k6786a0/T3X7y8HEBVI/AAAAAAAADrg/-v-HMyepMhM/s800/P1000894.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QILtiap8Las/T3X72bCLYhI/AAAAAAAADsM/kf-1eTLZqAY/s800/P1000900.JPG)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 14, 2012, 07:01:32 pm
Make sure you get them very warm, then stretch and try to hold them while they cool. The strip that runs from the screen to the rear of the car ended up 25mm short when I rebuilt my car.

Regards
John

I was thinking on a similar method yesterday. Today I tried it on the upper trims of the rear side windows by using a hot air gun. I managed to extend them with a little bit more than 1cm. Fortunately they did not crack. Tomorrow I will continue... :)

Those trims are the worst whiches were mentioned by you.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 14, 2012, 07:11:42 pm
This works OK for the front screen.

It is for mobil homes/caravans and normaly placed in a alu strip.
It is on the car for a few years now.


Thanks for the tip. I have seen it in another topic before. Someone wrote the name of it, HERZIM 110 if I remember well.

It really looks good. And of course, your cat also likes it so it must be ok. :)



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 14, 2012, 10:39:49 pm
This strip is 1.5 mm smaller then original.
The original is expencive.
This cost 0.86 a meter.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8e7ssNkWfrg/UCq3OJljeLI/AAAAAAAABEM/mLJOlhufzSE/s644/wstrip.jpg)
80 meter sold in a weekend at the club.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 14, 2012, 11:07:57 pm
Is it self adhesive or a double sided tape have to be used?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 14, 2012, 11:30:29 pm
No not self adhesive.
I used a acid free silicon kit.
Best is to fill the gap between the window and the chassis.
Make it smooth and let it dry.
It took me 4 hours to get it right.
It is not one of my favorit jobs but once done you know how to do it next time ;)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 22, 2012, 03:16:02 pm
Not realy, probably they break because of age.
I looked for some time for something that would fit, but afterer several things between bumper and chassis still not satisfied.
At the moment I have door edge strip, but not realy a wow feeling.
I think you are on your own in this case.


I have found a strip which is quite close to the original, but unfortunately the manufacturer does not have it in stock. They produce at least 100m, if I need it.

So, I am still searching.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on August 22, 2012, 07:11:55 pm


I have found a strip which is quite close to the original, but unfortunately the manufacturer does not have it in stock. They produce at least 100m, if I need it.

So, I am still searching.
[/quote]

I'm still thinking about closing all the gaps with polyester and make it a smooth car in 1 piece.
Something holds me back from doing that.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JL on August 22, 2012, 10:23:15 pm
If you close the gaps with polyester the slightest nudge on the bumper will crack the filler and paint, better to use a flexible strip of some type.

Regards
John


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JL on August 22, 2012, 10:32:12 pm
I wonder if these guys do anything that would help you.

http://www.deltarubber.co.uk/2011/PDF/Extrusions%20with%20Flanges%20or%20Beads.pdf

Regards
John


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 26, 2012, 10:06:13 pm
Thanks for the link.

I found another rubber company not far from here, first I will try to contact them next week.



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 27, 2012, 06:43:21 pm
Is it possible to find more information about the optional body stickers for Murena? Colors, motives and so on...

Once I saw a 2.2 with stripes on the bonnet. It looked good and now I am thinking of installing a similar one after painting the car.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 29, 2012, 09:42:38 pm
Today we installed the new thermostat with lower opening temperature (81C), it works perfectly.
Part number: QTH165 or QTH165K(with gaskets).

But I found another problem. I have a common collector pipe instead of the original exhaust collector and pipe, but it is too close to the body (less than 6mm). When the engine is running the front of the boot become quite hot - very hot.
As it is not possible to adjust the gap between the pipes and the chassis, I think it would be better to have the original parts.
If anyone has an exhaust collector (05011) and a pipe (05015) for sale, please send me a PM. Thanks.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 30, 2012, 06:19:36 am
But I found another problem. I have a common collector pipe instead of the original exhaust collector and pipe, but it is too close to the body (less than 6mm). When the engine is running the front of the boot become quite hot - very hot.

Could you post a photo of it? The boot in the Murena is a hot place, but the airflow through the engine bay and between the heat shield and the boot itself should be able to keep the temperature stable. I wouldn't worry too much about this.

/Anders


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on August 30, 2012, 08:07:52 am
Today we installed the new thermostat with lower opening temperature (81C), it works perfectly.
Part number: QTH165 or QTH165K(with gaskets).

But I found another problem. I have a common collector pipe instead of the original exhaust collector and pipe, but it is too close to the body (less than 6mm). When the engine is running the front of the boot become quite hot - very hot.
As it is not possible to adjust the gap between the pipes and the chassis, I think it would be better to have the original parts.
If anyone has an exhaust collector (05011) and a pipe (05015) for sale, please send me a PM. Thanks.

One solution could be to wrap the pipe in heat insulating tape.

http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=15726941 (http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=15726941)



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 30, 2012, 09:13:15 am
One solution could be to wrap the pipe in heat insulating tape.

I wouldn't recommend that since insulating the pipes mean more residual heat in the exhaust (slightly) increasing the chances of damaging the cylinder head.

/Anders


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 30, 2012, 07:11:51 pm
Here are some photos. Unfortunately I could not take better photos. The gap is about 3-4mm between the pipes and the chassis. If I wrapped it with heat insulating tape, it may touch the chassis...
When I checked it the engine was running at idle up to the operation of the heater fan so there was no airflow at the heatshield.
The front of the boot was very hot at that point about 70-80C. I worry about it...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 30, 2012, 09:44:23 pm
Your photos are good, and there obviously very little space there. I'd be more worried about the exhaust banging the heat shield. Unless you're going to store food in the trunk, really don't see the problem. Further, while the car should of course be able to withstand idling for as long time as you wish, it is not a normal mode of operation, and as soon as you get moving, the air will start flowing over the engine and out of the ventilation holes under the trunk. This will cool off the engine as well as the trun very effectively.

I think you will regret converting back to the standard exhaust, and I don't think it will change much temperature wise. But since, I only have experience with a 4-in-1 manifold like yours, I can't say for sure. Can someone else comment on this?

We're having our annual Matra meeting here in Denmark this weekend, so I'll see if I can get a few photos of similar installations and ask others about their experiences.

/Anders


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 30, 2012, 10:09:55 pm
Unless you're going to store food in the trunk, really don't see the problem.

It depends on the food. I can roast or bake in the trunk, so no problem... :)

I have new upper engine bushes so the engine does not move.
How much is the gap in your car?

Thank you for your research in advance.



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Matra_Hans on August 31, 2012, 07:41:06 pm
The original exhaust manifold/ exhaust collector is made of cast iron, and it will usually develop cracks after some time of operation.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on August 31, 2012, 09:05:41 pm
So it is not easy to find one in good condition. Thank you for the info.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Anders Dinsen on September 03, 2012, 06:29:48 pm
I managed to take a photo of my exhaust seen from below. As you can see my car also has just a small gap between the pipes and the chassis. I have never had any problems though. During acceleration, the engine will twist to counter the rear wheel torque, and this will increase the gap slightly. So I wouldn't worry about your clearance.

The temperature in the boot seems a little high, though. I've been thinking about that. How did you measure it? Was the car idling or driving?

After 50 km driving on motorway (i.e. plenty of airflow), my boot is warm, but certainly not more than 35 degrees. Have you checked your ignition timing? The exhaust gasses will be hotter with retarded ignition. This is because with advanced ignition there's more energy transmitted into the conrods and this, according to the principles of thermodynamics, cools off the gasses in the cylinder. So, if you're running with the ignition at 5 degrees or less, that could be your problem. Mine is advanced almost to 15 degrees (set up professionally on a rolling road and always only fuelled with RON 97 or higher).

/Anders



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 03, 2012, 06:50:28 pm
Thanks for the photo.

The car was idling, no airflow, and more than 30C ambient temperature. I did not measure the temperature, only felt it by touching the plate, estimated value. It was quite hot at a small area. The carpet is removed from the boot now so the bare metal could be felt hotter than fabric would have been. I am thinking of using some heat insulation foil under the new carpet to protect it.

I will check the ignition timing, it is a good tip.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 05, 2012, 07:23:10 pm
I revived my side mirrors, only the installation of the mirrorglasses was left. Today I wanted to fit them, but the left one did not succeed.
Now I think that I have two glasses for the right side, because they look the same, and both were perfect in the right shell. I do not know how, but one of them was in the left sidemirror when I bought the car and I did not recognise it when I disassembled the mirrors...

Once Roy wrote that the mirror glasses are different but in Simon's catalog only one part number is listed for both sides. Which is the right information?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 09, 2012, 05:31:40 pm
Are there any other cars whiches use the same or similar mounting rubber for the exhaust?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on September 09, 2012, 05:42:55 pm
Are there any other cars whiches use the same or similar mounting rubber for the exhaust?

You mean this one?
I have this laying around but not mounted yet.
The difference is that there is no metal wrapped around it.
Maybe with some work it might fit.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Talbot-Exhaust-Rubber-Mount-/310257118072?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item483cc3eb78


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 09, 2012, 06:36:04 pm
Yes, but mine is a bit smaller. The distance between the holes is about 22mm.

Is it important to have the metal sheet around the rubber? Does it have any function?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on September 09, 2012, 09:44:42 pm
Yes, but mine is a bit smaller. The distance between the holes is about 22mm.

Is it important to have the metal sheet around the rubber? Does it have any function?

The Murena exhaust is heavy so I think it is needed, but looking at the one from the auction, (I have one here), the rubber is pretty stiff so it may not be needed.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 22, 2012, 08:32:35 pm
Has anyone tried this paint on the area in front of the windscreen?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VHT-BLACK-WRINKLE-FINISH-SPRAY-PAINT-SP201-/251129248397?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a78783a8d



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on September 22, 2012, 10:17:42 pm
Has anyone tried this paint on the area in front of the windscreen?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VHT-BLACK-WRINKLE-FINISH-SPRAY-PAINT-SP201-/251129248397?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a78783a8d



Yep that is the stuff you need but it needs a user-manual to do it right.
I bought it from a specialist and he wrote down how to do it.
If you buy the stuff I will make a translation for you because if you want to do it right folow the rules.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WSKswyBnf9w/UF4cyCXMSrI/AAAAAAAABi4/sWUr3QNBrhY/s800/P1050415%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

Greets Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 23, 2012, 12:16:54 am
Thanks.

I also found the paint on a Hungarian website with instruction.
This says, 3 layers must be applied from 25-30cm distance, in crisscross fashion (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) within 30 minutes. Wait at least 3 minutes between the layers. If it is possible use a hot air gun, maximum 90C.
Is it right?

I hope 1 can is enough for the work with some practice before painting the car.

Could you send me some photos about the area just to see what and where to paint? Mainly at the sides and corners.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on September 23, 2012, 08:39:54 am
Yes but it needs to be 21-32 Celsius and take 5 days to hard out completly.
Hotter = finer wrinkle but on my 2.2 it's not a fine wrinkle so I would not use a heating gun.
Not touch it for 24 hours after painting.
It needs to be used at bare clean metal.
Because of the galvenised  part of the Murena it will come loose after some years.
No solution for that found , and that is why I did not use it on my Murena yet.
In my 2.2 the paint is used till the rubber that touches the hood, but I think that is not needed.

A friend of mine did his MG dash with it and that looks pretty good.
You be the genuine pig, because I am still in doubt of using it.
I will try it out on my 1.6 in spring next year because they painted it with a duster :) so needs to be done anyway.

Some of my pics.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r-k8VbGZDIs/T2uUymPVVoI/AAAAAAAAB1s/aj-HtRgLQm0/s800/P1000608.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nCkc9CS6VjE/UF6umPgUqqI/AAAAAAAAD_s/IuT585wADSk/s800/wrinkle.jpg)


Greets herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 23, 2012, 11:57:25 am
It needs to be used at bare clean metal.

That sounds not so good. The chassis is painted with epoxy primer now because the zinc coat was damaged at some places after 30 years. And I prefer using primer underneath any topcoats to prevent corrosion and peel off.

Thanks for the pics.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on September 23, 2012, 12:20:13 pm
It needs to be used at bare clean metal.

That sounds not so good. The chassis is painted with epoxy primer now because the zinc coat was damaged at some places after 30 years. And I prefer using primer underneath any topcoats to prevent corrosion and peel off.

Thanks for the pics.

The first time I sprayed a car I used paint  to thick for the spaygun.
It was yellow and the car looked like a yellow orange
If you make the paint thicker then it looks like sandpaper.
I think that is the closest you can get to wrinkle with normal paint.

Greets Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: suffolkpete on September 23, 2012, 01:21:49 pm
I have also used the VHT paint on my windscreen surround.  The instructions of my tin say it should be used between 16 and 35 deg. C  I stripped it back to  bare metal with Nitromors paint stripper and then sprayed on etch primer.  I then put on three coats of the wrinkle paint as directed in the instructions.  I did it about 18 months ago and it still looks good, I seem to remember it took about a day to wrinkle propoerly.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 24, 2012, 08:21:20 pm
Does anyone have more information about using Weber 34 DMTR carburettor in Murena 2.2? Or photos of an installed one?



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: TimS on September 25, 2012, 06:08:35 pm
Hi Klumzer

First, thanks for a really detailed thread on your car. You have done many of the jobs I am going to try on my car this winter. It has not run for ten years, was abandoned in a garage by its last owner and will be getting a full restore.

To answer your question, I think I have a 34 DMTR fitted to my car. I'm just about to remove it and get it refurbished. I don't know how well it ran ten years ago and I cannot run the car now without a lot of work to the engine, so I will only find out when the rebuild is complete in a few months. I am taking a chance it will work ok. If not, I will sell it and find either a Solex or try the Weber 40.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: TimS on September 25, 2012, 06:13:15 pm
It was originally hidden under a dirty K and N filter which I have removed. Very black inside!


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 25, 2012, 07:21:47 pm
Thank you for the pictures.

This forum is very useful. I could not  have done a lot of things without it. It is always worth searching on it. Sometimes I do not find the perfect answer but later it can be found in another thread and members always can help or advise something, so many thanks for them. :)

My engine can run but I think it would be better to overhaul the carburettor. I have Solex but it is not easy to find a repair kit for it that is why I am looking for more infos about Weber carburettors.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: TimS on September 25, 2012, 07:50:25 pm
I have spoken to some companies in the UK today and they have said the same thing. That is why I am keeping the Weber and having it refurbished.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 26, 2012, 05:21:29 pm
Do you know the exact type of your weber carb? Are there any type number on it?

Unfortunately there is not so much information about weber carbs in Murena 2.2 on the forum... :(


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on September 27, 2012, 07:33:33 pm
Has anyone tried a similar doorseal as a replacement of the original?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-BOAT-VAN-CARAVAN-RUBBER-UNIVERSAL-DOOR-SEAL-TRIM-18mm-x-23mm-/271053889619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f1c122053

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-VAN-CARAVAN-RUBBER-UNIVERSAL-DOOR-SEAL-TRIM-1-/261014896247?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cc5b33e77

Is it the right size?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on October 17, 2012, 11:04:19 pm
According to the parts catalog there should be a plate under the engine. Unfortunately it is missing on my car.

Could anyone send me a photo how it looks?
Thanks.  


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Anders Dinsen on October 18, 2012, 06:10:45 am
I noticed one on eBay yesterday with a nice picture:

www.ebay.de/itm/Matra-Murena-Luftleitplatte-/320998638698

The plate has puzzled many Murena owners. In the auction, they call it a "Luftleitplatte" indicating that it somehow directs air into the engine room, but that was not the reason it was fitted. It was fitted on request of the German TV approval body to protect the fuel tank and it was only fitted to Murenas sold in Germany. It may also have been fitted to all 480 Murena S. Unless your car was originally German and you're insisting on getting it back to it's original state in every way, I think you should forget about it :)

Cheers,
Anders


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on October 18, 2012, 04:44:33 pm
Thank you for the info. Now I know why it is "missing"... :)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on October 19, 2012, 10:48:55 pm
Could anyone send me some photos of the upholstery at the rear compartment? Mainly at the rear side windows from the inner side and above the mid window.
I forgot to take some before removal - stupid me - but now it would be good to have some to send to the upholsterer.

Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: northmurena on October 19, 2012, 11:33:51 pm
Anders, are you sure that the plate should cover the fuel tank ? I have an old illustration from a sales brochure in my mind. Of course that is now 30 years ago,  but im pretty sure that there was written it should create a little vacuum by high speed to get the hot air faster out off the engine-room. And in cause only the german Autobahn was without speed-limit they made it only for the german cars.

Hilsen
Kai


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on October 20, 2012, 06:42:12 am
Not much help but only 1 picture.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bW67OUiCHC0/UIIqxTKqjQI/AAAAAAAACEE/fZ-8vIdXD6w/s800/Interior.jpg)

Picture Richard


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Anders Dinsen on October 20, 2012, 07:40:33 am
Anders, are you sure that the plate should cover the fuel tank ? I have an old illustration from a sales brochure in my mind. Of course that is now 30 years ago,  but im pretty sure that there was written it should create a little vacuum by high speed to get the hot air faster out off the engine-room. And in cause only the german Autobahn was without speed-limit they made it only for the german cars.

Hilsen
Kai

Interesting. I find it a little hard to beleive though, as the plate is mounted under the car in front of the engine, so it shouldn't affect suction of air out of the engine room.

Suction of air from the engine room is driven by the rear end of the car: The two air channels under the trunk exiting in the rear bumper. This is actually a very clever design since there's a considerable vacuum in that area (depending on speed of course), and even more so on the Murena S with it's large rear spoiler. It's a nice engine (and especially exhaust) cooling design and obviously one that was inspired by Matras race cars.

Theoretically, the plate could create a bit of flat bottom ground effect aero increasing downforce slightly. If that was the case, the location near the middle of the car would make some sense. I'm still skeptical, since with the relatively small size of the plate and the large ride height of the car, I doubt if any flat botton effect would be measurable.

The rear spoiler as fitted on the Murena S is very effective though. It's size means a considerable increase in downforce on the rear, probably significatly increasing rear end stability around the top speed of 200 km/h.

/Anders


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: TimS on October 20, 2012, 11:49:25 am
Are you having your whole car retrimmed?

I'd be interested to know how much your trimmer is asking, as I will need new carpets for mine in the back. Are standard black ones still available?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on October 20, 2012, 11:52:52 am
Anders, are you sure that the plate should cover the fuel tank ? I have an old illustration from a sales brochure in my mind. Of course that is now 30 years ago,  but im pretty sure that there was written it should create a little vacuum by high speed to get the hot air faster out off the engine-room. And in cause only the german Autobahn was without speed-limit they made it only for the german cars.

Hilsen
Kai

Interesting. I find it a little hard to beleive though, as the plate is mounted under the car in front of the engine, so it shouldn't affect suction of air out of the engine room.

Suction of air from the engine room is driven by the rear end of the car: The two air channels under the trunk exiting in the rear bumper. This is actually a very clever design since there's a considerable vacuum in that area (depending on speed of course), and even more so on the Murena S with it's large rear spoiler. It's a nice engine (and especially exhaust) cooling design and obviously one that was inspired by Matras race cars.

Theoretically, the plate could create a bit of flat bottom ground effect aero increasing downforce slightly. If that was the case, the location near the middle of the car would make some sense. I'm still skeptical, since with the relatively small size of the plate and the large ride height of the car, I doubt if any flat botton effect would be measurable.

The rear spoiler as fitted on the Murena S is very effective though. It's size means a considerable increase in downforce on the rear, probably significatly increasing rear end stability around the top speed of 200 km/h.

/Anders

I always thought it was just a drip pan to catch leaking oil.  ;D


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on October 20, 2012, 01:17:23 pm
I always thought it was just a drip pan to catch leaking oil.  ;D

 ;D


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on October 20, 2012, 02:01:12 pm
Are you having your whole car retrimmed?

I'd be interested to know how much your trimmer is asking, as I will need new carpets for mine in the back. Are standard black ones still available?

Yes, I will have the whole car retrimmed. In the cockpit all the fabrics were worn, the roof panel and the seat cushions too. The original light brown fabric was not too tough... In the back it looked bad because of the sun.

Retrim of the rear compartment costs about 4-500, but it is relative. I think in the UK it is more expensive.
A good upholsterer can provide any fabrics what you need. Maybe the black one is cheaper than brown.

If you want to have the rear compartment retrimmed you have to do some extra work. First you have to remove the side windows. The leather goes under the glass covering the B- and C-pillars. That is why I need some pics taken from the inner side.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on October 20, 2012, 02:04:20 pm
Not much help but only 1 picture.

Picture Richard


Thanks.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: TimS on October 20, 2012, 09:47:56 pm
Are you having leather or cloth then?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on October 20, 2012, 10:20:03 pm
The interior will be similar to the original except for the gearknob and the steering wheel. Those will be covered with brown leather.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on November 26, 2012, 08:35:59 pm
I have two second hand engine mounting bushes. No rust on the metal and no cracks on the rubber, but the inner bushings are not in the center, about 3-4mm lower.

Is it possible to use one of them if I turn it 180 degrees?

The new busing is harder than the original one, so the car is a bit shaky...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on November 26, 2012, 09:44:49 pm
I had the same with a second hand and it needs to be mounted like this.
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7755/p1000976medium.jpg)
I found out that the holes need to be in this position because otherwise I had vibrations from the engine in the car.
I mouted it inside out and turned to this position.
It is mounted since 2009 and still OK


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on November 28, 2012, 09:55:47 am
I have two second hand engine mounting bushes. No rust on the metal and no cracks on the rubber, but the inner bushings are not in the center, about 3-4mm lower.

Is it possible to use one of them if I turn it 180 degrees?

The new busing is harder than the original one, so the car is a bit shaky...
The bushings are originally symmetrical, so there is no problem turning them 180 degrees.
Yours has just settled with age.
One problem with rubber is that the vulcanizing process never fully stops, thus making it harder with age.  :(


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: roy4matra on November 29, 2012, 05:51:12 pm
My engine can run but I think it would be better to overhaul the carburettor. I have Solex but it is not easy to find a repair kit for it that is why I am looking for more infos about Weber carburettors.

First, you can get the Solex 34CICF service kit easily from a company called B2H (at least, the last time I had no problem) and this comes with most of the gaskets, seals and a needle valve, if I remember correctly.
http://www.b2h.fr/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=34&category_id=14&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2

However, the tiny 'O' ring for the pump jet feed was usually too big, so you may need to get that elsewhere. (in the latest photo of the kit it looks about right now - maybe they've corrected it?)  Weber do a seal of the right size I think.  Also be careful when replacing needle valves.  I remember someone once replaced one only to find the car didn't run properly afterwards.  The new valve was leaving too little fuel in the float bowl.

Second, since there never was a Weber fitted or specified for the Murena you cannot simply replace the Solex with a Weber.  Yes some Weber 34DMTR will fit physically, but there are many different types of 34DMTR and whilst some can be altered to suit the engine, others are really not suitable.  The Venturis are cast in and cannot be changed as this is a 'cheap' Weber specifically made for a manufacturer for a specific car/engine.  As an example one version has a connection to the distributor diaphragm that is totally wrong.  The carburettor take off point should have no vacuum at idle and then increase progressively as the throttle is opened up to about 2500 rpm when it stops increasing.  (there is a vacuum advance curve in the workshop manual)  At least one version of the Weber 34DMTR has full vacuum at idle, then dropping as the throttle is opened, which is the opposite to correct and is totally wrong.  So far the most ideal 34DMTR I have found from the ones I have seen is not quite right and needs some changes but can work.  However, if the Solex 34CICF is still good but just needs to be cleaned and serviced this is often better as you know they work correctly with this engine.


Regarding fuel levels in the float bowl, the latest fuels, particularly where they contain ethanol have a different specific gravity which will affect the height the float will ride at, and consequently alter the fuel level.  You may need to adjust this to get back to the original level.

Roy


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: roy4matra on November 29, 2012, 05:57:48 pm
Anders, are you sure that the plate should cover the fuel tank ? I have an old illustration from a sales brochure in my mind. Of course that is now 30 years ago,  but im pretty sure that there was written it should create a little vacuum by high speed to get the hot air faster out off the engine-room. And in cause only the german Autobahn was without speed-limit they made it only for the german cars.

Hilsen
Kai

Anders is correct.  That undertray is extra protection for the fuel tank, required under TUV regs.

Roy


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on November 29, 2012, 07:36:40 pm
Thanks for the answers. I will try to turn the bush, but as I read in Oetker's topic it won't be easy to remove it from the cast.

I have bought a repair kit for the Solex from Simon. When I get the car back from the upholsterer I will send the carburettor to a specialist. Hopefully it will be as good as a new one. :)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on December 03, 2012, 09:31:44 am
Thanks for the answers. I will try to turn the bush, but as I read in Oetker's topic it won't be easy to remove it from the cast.
----------

You will need a hydraulic press and a piece of pipe that is just smaller that the inner diameter of the housing but large enough to rest on the outer rim of the bushing. A machine shop should have the tools.  :)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on December 21, 2012, 06:37:54 pm
Quick preview of the new interior. I like it! I will post more pics, when it is completed.

Today the car got the new windscreen, so tomorrow morning it will be transported back to the workshop.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: TimS on December 21, 2012, 11:17:21 pm
I was going to throw out my old steering wheel as some of the rubber has come off the back, and the gear lever has gone rubbery and soft. But may be I will do what you have done and simply get them recovered. They look great, as does the whole interior.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on December 22, 2012, 03:37:12 pm
I was going to throw out my old steering wheel as some of the rubber has come off the back, and the gear lever has gone rubbery and soft. But may be I will do what you have done and simply get them recovered. They look great, as does the whole interior.

Yes the old original steering wheel feels a bit like SM stuff.
Touching it gave me the chills.
I replaced it for solid wood.
Feels a bit like my old MG in the 70s.
First it looked like this but with a Alfa center.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6p2Ey_h76-c/UEZTjfMGi5I/AAAAAAAABQg/34o-UmyjTz4/s800/P1050214%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

Was a bit to 70s so I chanched it to this.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JcONZgDzHQw/UEZT3xULE3I/AAAAAAAABRk/ALSvtfvZykI/s640/SA000145.JPG)
Not everybody's choiche I think but I like it.
The car has a brown leather interior so mounting a black one is not done and brown is hard to find.

by the way, your interior looks very need, but if I change it the buttons will go.

Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on December 22, 2012, 04:26:25 pm
Thanks. I insisted on the buttons. I wanted to keep the style of the interior, because it looks like a living room from the 80s. I like it. I think it is as unique as the three seats in a row. :)

The steering wheel looks quite good, so if you want to save your original one leather is a good choice I think. But I would like to try other steering wheels with smaller diameter in the future, because I am quite tall for this car and not easy to get in.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on December 22, 2012, 08:08:55 pm
I am 1m83 and no problem.
Renewing the seats you loose some  cm's.
New leather seats from Car-joy you loose about 4-5 cm (see the steering wheel to gain legroom)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JciK2Cx1CxQ/UNYFA9cZv_I/AAAAAAAACVQ/zV1hZlhaIbk/s663/seats.jpg)
You can win a bit here.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-855yUV04lF0/T3XLVweaREI/AAAAAAAADlY/-HRwRvsDr2g/s800/P1000793.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MBbia6eEMac/T3XLYI8sMlI/AAAAAAAADls/97Fc9vM6aU4/s800/P1000797.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Fy1XyRa4Gk4/T3XLYjQUCCI/AAAAAAAADmA/ph6SbBOZfF0/s800/P1000800.JPG)

It is all just a bit short.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: TimS on December 22, 2012, 08:26:46 pm
It is very low and I'm on 5 10! Don't know how you manage at over 6 foot.

Was going to throw my old wheel out but now definitely going to get some prices to cover it with leather. I have to decide in the new year if I retrim the seats in cloth or go for leather from someone like Car Joy. Depends on the cost really. But a black leather covered steering wheel and gear lever will go with either.

Did you like the leather seats?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on December 22, 2012, 11:22:12 pm
1m83 = 6 foot do fine.
Much more will have a problem.
Most of the people that converted to leather complain seats were much higher but that's normal I think.
My 1.6 has the old type leather from Car-joy and after some years it got settled.
It is quiet old now and needs filling but sitting is OK.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PS0iRjvJVoI/UA8Gy_kGwRI/AAAAAAAAAls/9ultaKvIPpo/s800/P1050043%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

The seats can't get much lower because of the construction.
I saw no opportunities  to do so.

Herman



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: northmurena on December 23, 2012, 12:48:09 am
I had also the feeling to sit a little bit higher after renewing the seats with leather. At the same time it feels a little bit harder,more stable but not uncomfortable. I made the seats myself, so i can be sure the foam is still the same, nothing changed or new padded.  So the reason must be that leather is just a little bit stronger than cloth. But i have no problem to get my 1,78 m in. Only sometimes to get 1,78m out but that must be the age ;-)

Hilsen

Kai


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on December 23, 2012, 10:52:25 am
What nice interiors!

When I sat in the car first time after getting it back from the upholsterer I was wondering how high I was sitting, but I was not sure in the changing, because I had not sat in the car for a long time. Maybe I lost some centimeters above my head because of the new cushion in the seat but I still have some space (I am 1,85). Not so much, but I still have to find the right position for driving when the interior is fully completed.

I am thinking of getting a D-type steering wheel (as Oetker suggested) to gain more leg room, but quite rare to find. I have some leather left from the upholsterer so it would be good to buy a used and worn steering wheel (hopefully cheaper than a new one) and have it covered with the same brown leather as the dashboard has. In another post GP mentioned a Sparco (353 if I remember well) which is very nice, but a new one is very expensive and of course not brown.

I have found the style what I like and matches to the car (I think) but not D-type... :-\


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on December 23, 2012, 01:06:54 pm
Have a closer look at the Momo.
You will see the hart of the steering is out of the middle.
That give almost the same effect driving in a straight line.  ;)

My 2.2 has it to.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_WCa_p-fnrE/UNbzPVOpCAI/AAAAAAAACVk/iPNtTJ9eAjw/s800/ond%2520%2528Medium%2529.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-v9NRgmqiLCQ/UNbzTCS97GI/AAAAAAAACVs/ArvqLoPkcFA/s800/07042011581%2520%2528Custom%2529.jpg)

Ooops...Needt to loose some weight I think, because otherwise I want fit at all in the car in time.

Greet Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on December 23, 2012, 01:38:42 pm
:)
Sometimes fixing something is not too comfortable. I know it from my profession...

Do you think that the Momo Corse that was attached in my former post has the same effect? Maybe yes. It would cost about 30, and need retrimming. If the seller still has it...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on December 23, 2012, 02:07:27 pm
:)
Sometimes fixing something is not too comfortable. I know it from my profession...

Do you think that the Momo Corse that was attached in my former post has the same effect? Maybe yes. It would cost about 30, and need retrimming. If the seller still has it...

Make the picture bigger and measure.
I did, and I am pretty certain it is.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on December 23, 2012, 02:35:25 pm
Yes, you are probably right. It's diameter is 320mm, so the upper part is about 170mm and the lower part is  about 150mm. But my measurment may contain some parallax fault...

Thanks for the info.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on December 23, 2012, 05:48:04 pm
I have to tidy up the fuel lines in the engine bay but I can not find suitable plastic hose clamps to the front edge of the hatch where the hose goes from the fuel tank to the fuel pump. Is it possible to find some on e-bay?



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: TimS on December 23, 2012, 06:48:56 pm
I'm looking for those as well. No luck yet.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on December 23, 2012, 07:46:18 pm
Not original, but how about this.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-x-BLACK-2-5mm-100mm-Push-Mount-Cable-Ties-Panel-Chassis-Fixing-Tie-Base-/190770023606?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item2c6ac78cb6

Also bigger
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-x-BLACK-4-8mm-100mm-Push-Mount-Cable-Ties-Panel-Chassis-Fixing-Tie-Base-/400363705392?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item5d37895430


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on December 23, 2012, 08:20:40 pm
That's ok. I could not find any cable tie with mounting point, so many thanks.
Unfortunately I cannot see the hole size of the mounting point. I will contact the seller...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on December 23, 2012, 08:30:47 pm
I did not need them yet, but looks good for the front to.
Will order some for myself as well.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JL on December 23, 2012, 11:19:20 pm
I have used these before,

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/Self_Adhesive_Cable_Tie_Bases_25mm_Square_CTBAS

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/product/Cable_Tie_Bases_Mini_25pcs_MCTBAS

Although I did use rivets on the self adhesive ones as an insurance policy.

Regards
John


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JV on December 24, 2012, 06:12:52 pm
I did not need them yet, but looks good for the front to.
Will order some for myself as well.

Herman,


I like to have some also.
Can I buy these from you dividing the costs of delivery?

Jan


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on December 24, 2012, 10:37:44 pm
@ jan.

I ordered a the biger ones 4,5 mm.
I reserve some for you.
New years meeting Belgium ?

Greetings Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: JV on December 25, 2012, 04:04:32 pm
OK


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on December 27, 2012, 03:28:27 pm
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-x-BLACK-4-8mm-100mm-Push-Mount-Cable-Ties-Panel-Chassis-Fixing-Tie-Base-/400363705392?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item5d37895430

I have got the answer. These cable tie fits to hole 7mm dia.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on December 27, 2012, 05:01:11 pm
I have no clue if this is what we need, because I didn't need any yet, but if to big I order the smaller to.
They will come in handy anyhow.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on December 28, 2012, 10:19:16 am
I have also ordered some, because I am sure it will fit in the Murena.

After the order I got a new message from the seller. He checked it and it fits in a 6mm hole.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 05, 2013, 10:06:40 pm
A bit dusty, but looks better and better... :) The revived spotlights are very shiny. I had to paint a black frame on the covers to hide the yellowish edge, and I changed the glass inserts.

Wiring still looks a bit bushy, because cable ties have not been installed yet. Windscreen washer pump works, but the tank is not so nice. Maybe this will be changed to a similar universal one.

And some photos of the new headlight mounting. I think it is better than the original.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 05, 2013, 10:35:53 pm
Looks very good.
The system is looks simulair as mine.
I am very satisfied with it.
Both my Murena's had regulair drop down of the units, especial when on bad roads.
excelent job ;D

Greetings Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 05, 2013, 11:39:43 pm
Hopefully the new mounting will bear bad roads. Originally it was designed for normal headlights but I think it is tough enough to keep the lamps when the from eyes are closed and the lamps are hanging almost vertically.

The engine is still not perfect, when idling it sounds the car may suffocate. I have a repair kit for the Solex so the carburettor will be removed for an overhaul.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 06, 2013, 12:02:16 am
No vac leaks?
A overhaul is not a bad idea after all those years.
I was lucky.
When I bought it there was a new carb mounted.
I am still thinking to revive a old type carb because teh after market carb are not always for the Murena.
Mine has the number CIC 34 161 an original is CIC 34 141
I still have the feeling there is a gap in acceleration with the new carb.
It is not a big problem but when I find some time......  ::)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 06, 2013, 08:10:51 pm
I will take a look at the one way valve before the vacuum tank, I suspect it stuck maybe...

Can it cause the problem?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 06, 2013, 08:22:54 pm
Yes it can.
Disconnect the vac-hoses from the engine and close the connections on the inlet.
Try if it goes better at idle.
You can also try to look for leaks at the inlet seals by spraying some water at it when running.
If a leak is there you will notice.

Succes Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 11, 2013, 08:15:23 pm
Does anyone have any photos of the parts of the door lock mechanism? (marked with red ellipse in the picture)

Something is wrong with them. I suspect something is missing there in my car... Maybe the painter lost a small piece when he removed the lock mechanism during respray...
When the bolts of the part 14137/14138 are thigthened, the lock mechanism does not work. Should be there any shim or something like that underneath these parts?

Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 11, 2013, 08:56:37 pm
Back in time for me so digged up from the catacombs of my memory...

I think te clue is the special bolts and rings the lock is mounted with.
If the ring is wrong or missing you have that problem.

Regards Herman
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xgj1isZ08xk/UPBthdDWHsI/AAAAAAAACbk/INPqA7771bo/s800/P1050762%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o1oo64UKVIU/UPBtjWS307I/AAAAAAAACbs/iX4TcDBcKvM/s800/P1050763%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-u3dUxQ18Y2g/UPBtlbZW7CI/AAAAAAAACb0/hS9o7gW6gA8/s800/P1050764%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 11, 2013, 09:09:09 pm
Cant remember where I placed the rings, but a picture from the parts manual makes it clear (part32).
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-R8HrMawq6pY/UPBw6jLTBLI/AAAAAAAACcI/DlXhSlbzXYA/s697/Mountlock.jpg)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 11, 2013, 09:25:39 pm
Thank you very much!
The picture is very informative. Now I know what can be the problem...

As you always have photos of everything.... do not you have some of Murenas whiches have original decals (stripes) on the bonnet?

Edit:
I found 2 photos what I mean. Is it original decal?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 11, 2013, 10:18:39 pm
'Doesn't look like original, but this is better asked to Roy G, that knows the cars from the beginning.

I have seen some Murena's that had a striping decal over the botom side with the letters MATRA MURENA cursive written on it.
The car from Razorback has a nice decal but it's more Peugeot/Talbot.
If you really want to, you can put them on your daily vehicle. :D
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6xPgV4f2Xe8/UPCBZSy7VcI/AAAAAAAACcw/9NxUYo-v6T8/s800/P1030048%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 11, 2013, 10:37:07 pm
:)
Nice car...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 11, 2013, 11:20:33 pm
Only 1 decal is on my car.
It is at the back made myself.
It is a rat sniffing on the logo.
In the club my car's nickname is the rat because it is saved, daily running but with a lot of work.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lCeepEKde2M/UPCPtvYD6NI/AAAAAAAACdE/368R0c1GiDY/s800/DSCN2386%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
Pic taken on te first run (500km)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 12, 2013, 12:20:42 pm
:D
Not the nicest nickname for a daily used car... :)
But this is very lucky, it is in good hands after the scrap yard.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 12, 2013, 03:35:11 pm
That is exact what the logo means.
Saved before the rats used it as food.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 12, 2013, 07:02:42 pm
:D

What is it in your hands? Is it the logo sticker of the meeting?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 12, 2013, 08:06:41 pm
Yep,
It was perfect weather that day for a meeting and we had a busy day.
a member aranged that we could visit a flight-base in Belgium.
The name of the meeting was Matra.....magic missile meet.
a impression of pics what we did that day.
For the best experience start a dia show from there.

https://picasaweb.google.com/102176096265117951822/MatraMeetingStefEnBart?authkey=Gv1sRgCMqG4deaoZiWjQE#

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f8TPstlTytc/UFcb-5M1ucI/AAAAAAAAA9A/35U2s70xMh8/s1065/DSCN2494.JPG)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 12, 2013, 10:11:13 pm
Very nice cars and photos. There could be a lot of interesting things to see on the meeting, mainly the museum on the airbase. As an aircraft technician it could have been the perfect meeting for me. :) And of course, to see another Matras. Unfortunately there are not so many here...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 12, 2013, 11:15:19 pm
Indeed it was interesting.
In my younger years i worked for KLM in the electric  sector on DC8 short and long version.
I didn't like the work because most of the time we had to help the mechanics.
They had a lot more work in year revision.
We worked with 240 persons day/night shifts 14 days to do a whole plane revision.
Also my house was 20 km from Schiphol and had to go with a bicycle to work.
After some time they asked me if i wanted to do a 2 year education for DC10 specialism.
I had to sign a long term contract.
I couldn't reach a good agreement about it, so I resigned.
Was a secure job for life, but that is not what i wanted in those days.
I wanted my freedom but maybe it was a stupid decision.
With the KLM you are secured from the craddle to the end of days was the slogan.

Regards Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 13, 2013, 01:54:23 pm
Now I know, why you are so good at electronics...  ;)

Last year I was in Schiphol twice. That is enormous! Before being there, I could not imagine how large it is. In my mind it is the center of the world. :)

I work for the air force as an escape system specialist, basically a mechanical engineer, that is why electronics is not my profile. Our fleet is much smaller than KLMs...  :D
When I finished the military college I also had a four-year contract, but my obligation is expired some years ago.

In my opinion people are never satisfied so sometimes need to change...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 13, 2013, 03:50:38 pm
Exactly, but I am retired for some time now and only play and drive a bit around with my Matra's.
Not a bad job 8)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 13, 2013, 05:27:26 pm
:) Yes, one of the best one!


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 16, 2013, 09:06:34 am
Concerning striping and other user rebuilds, there is a excelent site where everyone can upload called flickr.
This is the link where you see a thousand  Murena's in all its forms passing by.
I already filled in the  slideshow.
Start if you have a hour or so ;)

http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=matra+murena&mt=all&adv=1


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: northmurena on January 16, 2013, 12:41:23 pm
No, not ALL forms. This one is not one the site ;-)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 16, 2013, 01:45:56 pm
Then this car must be forever in his hide-out ;)
If you got spotted you are on Flickr.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 16, 2013, 07:40:31 pm
Thanks for the link. Yes, it probably needs an hour... :)



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: northmurena on January 18, 2013, 03:07:58 pm
Then this car must be forever in his hide-out ;)
If you got spotted you are on Flickr.

There were made many pictures of the lady from her birth till 1990. But - of course - that was before we all had digital cameras and were able to put it in the internet. After that she was for more than 20 years in her hideout ( no chance for be at flickr ) untill i found her last year and bought the lady back ;-)



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on January 18, 2013, 07:39:07 pm
Can anyone tell me, how to set the float level in the carburettor?

Is there any data for it?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on January 18, 2013, 11:03:29 pm
1990 must have been a magical year for Murena's.
My 2.2 was stored from that date till 2007
It was not in a bad state because it was stored in a heated shed.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 13, 2013, 08:17:21 pm
I managed to find a nice replacement for the original speakers. A bit higher than the originals but hopefully there is enough space for them in the car.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on February 13, 2013, 09:50:37 pm
--- A bit higher than the originals but hopefully there is enough space for them in the car.
---

I replaced the original speakers under the dash in the side wall. The new ones did not fit because they were slightly higher than the originals. I made a 8 mm spacer to lift them out a bit. There is an indentation in the metal side wall for the speaker and obviously you don't want to cut that to make room.
The only problem was that the left speaker required the foot rest to be cut a bit narrower to make room for the grill over the speaker.

Look at my post here: http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1421.0.html (http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1421.0.html)

Looking at your photos you may also have problems if it is a speaker in the door. There has to be room for the window to pass down.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on February 13, 2013, 10:07:37 pm
I have just gone through your topic... I will see if the new speakers fit or not.
If not then I have new tripes in the house. :) But I bought them for bargain price, only 3.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on February 13, 2013, 10:12:28 pm
I have just gone through your topic... I will see if the new speakers fit or not.
If not then I have new tripes in the house. :) But I bought them for bargain price, only 3.

No big los if they don't  ;)
The problem with my higher powered speakers was the large magnet that didn't let them fit to the bottom of the cone shaped indentation in the wall. Looks like you will have the same problem.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 04, 2013, 06:13:23 pm
Today my Murena passed the Old Timer qualification exam! :)
The car was a bit nervous this morning, one of the cylinders did not want to work...  >:(

The carburettor still not perfect, but my friend thinks the car only needs a long fast ride...  ;D
Unfortunately I have to wait, because it takes about 3-4 weeks to get the registration plate...  :-\


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: TimS on March 04, 2013, 06:32:14 pm
Congratulations!

I am still working on mine to get it through the MOT. At the moment sounds like a tractor. Like you i need to adjust the carb and the ignition I think.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 04, 2013, 07:24:08 pm
I sent the carb to a specialist, but I think he only changed the gaskets and seals from the repair kit...  >:(

So, it still needs some action. I have new sparking plugs in the car, but they may need some cleaning beacuse of the bad carb...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on March 05, 2013, 07:47:09 am
My 2.2 didn't drive for some time and before that only short rides for several years.
It took months to get all carbon out.
Driving it for some time made a significant difference.
Maybe you could use a cleaner, but driving will do the trick to.

Idiot mode on.
a very good medicin but not to good for the engine is to put some brake fluid in the carb.
It will smoke like hell but cleanburn the engine.
I am no fan of this kind of actions but it can help in worst cases.

Best regards Herman



Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 05, 2013, 07:29:58 pm
Is it worth removing and cleaning the sparking plugs or a good ride could clean them?

I have another serious problem. When I washed the car, some water could get into the trunk at the left taillight... now I am drying the carpet...

I am thinking on applying some self adhesive sealing tape on the chassis where the rubber seal touches it. Hopefully it can solve the problem.
There is a sticky plastic tape what would be the best I think, but unfortunately I do not know the exact name of it. We call it "dog meat"      ...not easy to get some.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on March 05, 2013, 08:36:52 pm
Original sparkplugs for Murena. very low prices.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-NEW-CHAMPION-SPARK-PLUG-RN7YC-NGK-BPR7ES-/260885592155?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item3cbdfe385b

The water in the back is in most cases because the rubber around the lights doesn't seal of good.
I used thick layer of mastic kit around it to make it watertight because new rubber didn't tackle the problem.
It is difficult to get it waterproof.
Also the rivets I replaced with nuts and bolts with the same kit.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-917mPgDK1zQ/T2roHCxAj4I/AAAAAAAABk8/7JWNITb1uRM/s800/P1020842.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-du5FePeHjwA/T2rn_VDbZ8I/AAAAAAAABkA/M0nPqwVTdes/s800/Achterlicht%2520003.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nivlli71vx0/T2roUBOjsLI/AAAAAAAABmE/-5EzF87-sUc/s800/P1020851.JPG)

The corners where the water is guided to the rear-panel license-plate needs attention to.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nivlli71vx0/T2roUBOjsLI/AAAAAAAABmE/-5EzF87-sUc/s800/P1020851.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6xUPELge78U/T2roUbbvReI/AAAAAAAABmI/K26Kqku2xpI/s800/P1020852.JPG)

Nice and dry.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-A1c798af6Oc/T2rpk-zllHI/AAAAAAAABro/W7rN7kuDkSs/s800/P1030163.JPG)

Regards Herman




Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 05, 2013, 10:01:14 pm
Thanks. Really cheap spark plug! Thanks for the tip.
But mine plugs are quite new, they have run less than 10km so they should be good.

This is what I meant (dog-meat), but I did not know the exact English name of it:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CARAVAN-MOTORHOME-19M-ROLL-SEALING-TAPE-MASTIC-19MM-X-2-5MM-/181075307184?pt=UK_Campervan_Caravan_Accessories&hash=item2a28edeab0


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 06, 2013, 12:14:05 pm
How are you doing with the new speakers you told us about earlier?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 06, 2013, 04:54:31 pm
I did not have time to deal with them. As the car was fully retrimmed, I should cut new holes for the speakers on the carpet so I could not check easily if they fit or not. There was a lot to do on the car so I have not installed the radio yet now there is a black blanking plate on the dash.

And I have not got any answer from the steering wheel specialist for my mail.  >:(
I managed to buy a Momo Corse which needs new leather, hopefully I will get it in some days. Then I will contact him... 


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 07, 2013, 07:12:28 pm
What is the normal tyre pressure? 2.5 bar rear, 1.8 bar front?

Oetker, what did you use for corrosion protection at the A-pillar on the Rat? If I remember well you mentioned something. Was it a kind of anticorrosion wax?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: northmurena on March 07, 2013, 07:29:32 pm
normal speed. 1,6 front; 2,1 rear
high speed. 1,8 front; 2,4 rear
high speed and max. load: 1,8 front; 2,5 rear


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 07, 2013, 07:30:29 pm
Thanks.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on March 07, 2013, 09:33:55 pm
From the guy that sprayed the car I gor some white grease (enough to do 2 Murena's I think).
I removed the pur/mouse from the A-pillar and roof section as much as possible.
Then I used a spray-gun with a flexible tip to put it in.

The car is very sensitive on Tire pressure.
2.5 rear and 1.8 front is OK and if you have to soft side wall rear tires 2.7 will help a bit in a fast corner.

Regards Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 07, 2013, 09:49:36 pm
Ok, thanks.

Fortunately I did not have any corrosion problems on A-pillars, but I am thinking on some preventive maintenance.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 08, 2013, 05:34:10 pm
Is it possible to disassamble the clock (which is on the dashboard)?
Lighting works but the clockwork does not...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on March 09, 2013, 06:40:17 am
I have no pics of that but you can get every part of.
First I would measure the backup tension is there if it is not running.
I placed a digital one from renault using the original surround of the old one.
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/514/p1030507medium.jpg)

Maybe you can use a Clio clock for the interns, but I need to find out myself.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Yz17nIHnNIY/UTrO2pf7EsI/AAAAAAAACmY/pae0-2yKS28/s500/clioclock.JPG)


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 09, 2013, 02:44:42 pm
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-du5FePeHjwA/T2rn_VDbZ8I/AAAAAAAABkA/M0nPqwVTdes/s800/Achterlicht%2520003.jpg)

Oetker, is it a new taillight panel or you rewired it?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on March 09, 2013, 03:11:28 pm
Yes it's new.
They are from a Talbot Horizon
The lenses are different but the inner stuf is the same.
They are from Frankini.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Cb09l7KRuVc/T2r1L49X-_I/AAAAAAAABs8/hJuO3BA81Cg/s800/achterlicht002medium.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ig40crO1Wcs/T2roAjIHpRI/AAAAAAAABkU/ec-oFk5KsqE/s800/Achterlicht%2520004.jpg)

Regards Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 09, 2013, 03:51:07 pm
Earlier I was looking for a spare set of Horizon taillights but it is not easy to find here. Only some second hand ones in bad shape, broken clips, etc.
Hopefully the mastic tape will solve my problems...
Today I removed the taillights. Now I am waiting for the tape...


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on March 09, 2013, 04:11:19 pm
There was also new rubber provided with lights but still leaking.
The backplate from the Murena is thin and mis-form easy.
I still needed a bunch of kit and also some self tapping screws to adjust all in line.
The old ones will do fine
My goal was to not do these things with the new Horizon lights but then it's still a mess because there is some free space at the sides and it can move a bit from left to right. (few mm)

If you search Horizon lights, they are for sale here.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360475541397?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Regards Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 09, 2013, 06:39:22 pm
Thanks for the link, but now I do not want to spend more money on spares. It would be good to collect some rare spares, but my budget is getting exhausted...

I managed to save my rear lenses by polishing so now taillights are quite ok.


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on March 09, 2013, 08:30:41 pm
My car is still waiting for a long fast ride to clean the engine internally, after the lot of short engine 'tests'...

Now it starts easily with full choke and untouched gaspedal at first attempt. Then it can be started only with half choke and full gas....
Is it normal?


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: Oetker on March 09, 2013, 10:06:20 pm
If the engine is warm/hot you need full throttle no choke.
It has something to do with airlock in the fuelsystem.
Dont know exactly but it needs longer turnover to start after a stop and engine still warm.
My 1.6 has the same, it seems normal to me.

regards Herman


Title: Re: murena restore
Post by: klumzer on October 28, 2013, 05:02:03 pm
After a long silence, today my car passed the MOT. :)
Unfortunately I did not have enough time this year for my car. I was very busy with my job, other problems and I had to prepare for my Swedish language exam.
It will take one or two weeks to get the registration plate, then test drives starts.
The carburettor is still not perfect... :(

Some photos: