MatraSport Forum

Guys,

Looks like I might be able to try to squeeze the bikes into a friends Espace, as mentioned in my first thread ( http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?topic=234.0 ).
 ;D
I searched the forum any indication of how much it costs to run a JE Espace (or Grand Espace to be precise).

- Tyres; how much does a set cost and how many miles do you get out of them?
- Services, how often (18,000??) and what sort of cost are they?
- Anything else that needs replacing on a regular basis? (brake pads etc).
- When's the cam belt change (I'm looking for a diesel), and how much does it cost?

If you're in UK, if you wouldn't mind asking approx how much you pay for insurance (I'm looking for fully comp as I'll probably have to finance the car).

Also, is there an Espace buyers guide somewhere? Or do you have anything in particular that I should keep in mind?

Any help much appreciated! :)

Try looking at www.carsurvey.org for other owners views. They may answer some of your questions.

Brilliant - thanks I'll have a look! :)

I've read pretty much all of the entries on Carsurvey, and it seems like people either love the car or absolutely hate it. In fact even the guys who hate the car love the car when it's working... which seems to be seldom. :(

There's also tons of reports of how much the repairs cost, but not much about actual running costs (i.e set of tyres).

Should I take the scary doom and gloom stories from Carsurvey seriously or is it just a case of all the frustrated owners coming to Carsurvey to vent their anger...? Whilst most Espace owners are happy bunnies with little or no problems?

:)

Ha, I thought that might happen. Most people only post on there to vent their anger.
I bought a Fiat Multipla before reading carsurvey about them. If I had read that first, I would never have bought one, but ours has been great.

It being French and quite specialised, it is bound to have some reliability problems, so just make sure you get a good, well-looked after Espace.

Some friends had terrible problems with their JE diesel Grand for the first few years. I think it was the ECU, but they still absolutely love it and don't want to change it.

They do have reliability problems, but then look whose at the bottom of the charts for reliablity, Mercedes Benz, and a lot of people won't drive anything else...

I think my main advice is to keep clear of official Renault garages for servicing.

Thanks for that Will! :) Much appreciated.

How much is a set of tyres for example?  ???

Just been out measuring the bikes again...  :o ;D :D

16 x 225/55 Tyres are about £75.00 each.  With the V6 I only get about 12k out of the fronts, but rears last well.

Depending on your mileage you might investigate cost comparison between a V6 (cheaper to buy) than a diesel.
I get 25-26mpg now that I don't live in the middle of Bristol, but I don't know what you can expect from a diesel.

Thanks! £300 for a set - not too bad.

I actually had a look yesterday on comparing the 2.0l vs the Diesel and assuming the Diesel is £1000 more, with my mileage it would take 5 years to make up for the difference in cost between the diesel and the petrol. I should run the same calculations against the 25-26mpg of the V6 too - I take it all V6 are automatic (= thirstier).

Thanks agian Will! :)

I generally agree with Will about running costs. V6 is quite problem free and the gearbox (yes, only automatic is available on that) is very reliable in the 24v engine (12v engine is also problem free, but gearbox requires overhaul every 150.000 kms or less), so you should not be afraid of complete breakdowns. 12v V6 has chaindriven cam shafts so there is no cam belt to replace. 24v V6, however, has a cam belt and it requires the engine to be removed from the car to replace it. It is therefore very costly.

2 litre petrols are also quite problem free, but stay away from the automatic variants. They also have cam belts, but are quite easy to replace.

Diesels are excellent powerful engines, especially the DCI'engine (later models), but I've heard about some reports of turbo failures on the DCI's. Actually it's the bearings that fail and this causes the engine to run on engine oil - unless you have the luck/nerve to force it to a stop using the brakes it will destroy the engine. Diesels also has belt driven cam(s) but should also be easy to change.

I dont agree completely with Will that you should stay away from Renault garages generally. I think I know what he means though, and here in Denmark too the larger Renault garages generally gives a bad impression. They do have one advantage though, which is that they have the proper testing equipment for your car, which is absolutely necessary to diagnose and fix more complex errors. My Espace v6 24v developed a fault on the enigne and on the gearbox. Neither were serious, and the fault codes were simply deleted by the garage - but now we know what to look for, and if/when the problems we have experienced start showing up on a more regular basis, we will have to fix these parts. An independent garage would not have been able to do that.

Electrical problems are common on Espace's, and some problems may be hard to fix. In Germany the Espace tops the statistics about on-road breakdowns - and as far as I know, most of these are due to electrical problems. My own experience, however, is not that bad - I have only a courious failure on the outside temperature sensor, that shows about 12 degrees to little. We get some funny comments by passengers on that.

That was all the bad news.... the good is that the Espace phase 3 (1997-2002) was extremely well built with glass fiber body and warm galvanised chassis. You will NOT see rust problems in one of these - except in the engine hood, which is metal. It is also very beautiful, but you already know that ;) Another is that it was the safest MPV with a four star rating in Euro NCAP crash tests. This was revolutionary by the time it was first tested (1998) and is still today an acceptible rating. DON'T FORGET to tie down your bikes to the floor, however! ;)

Hope this is of some help in deciding a variant for you!

- Anders

Wow, what a reply Anders!
Thanks very much! :)
I agree it's a beautiful car.
Very insightful information. I'm leaning towards the Diesel, mainly because of the daily running cost is lower.  The V6 is indeed an  awesome car, and even if it's cheaper, I really couldn't warrant running the car as much as I'd want to. I'm planning 3+ trips per year to Germany from UK, and probably one to Sweden/Finland - that's on top of my 45mile daily commute - loads of miles.

If my memory serves the cambelts need changing at 70,000 miles (110.000km?) on the Diesel. I'm hoping to get one that's just had the belt change done.

How far do these cars usually go before it's time for exensive overhaul or to give up..?  ???

I guess I have to mentally prepare to spend some time opening electrics up, spraying with WD-40 and so forth at some point. :)

I'm usually a sucker for technology in its strange form (why else would I have a BMW motorbike LOL!); so the Espace with glass fiber body and galvanised chassi speaks to me a lot.

Thanks again Anders!  8) :D

Found one!  ;D It's a 2001 model (Y-reg), 83K miles, 2.2l dCi engine... :)
I put down a deposit on it today, and will hopefully pick it up next Saturday.
http://madhouse.selincite.com/js/renault_grand_espace_2001/

Can't wait! Thanks for all your help!

Beautiful, beautiful! Welcome to the 'community' ;)

congrats! - and welcome aboard :o)

Thanks guys!  8) I'll be pestering you with tons of questions in the future.  :P  ::)

I'm really aching to get her next weekend... :)

Welcome to the happy band of owners of Espace:Model JE:Silver:Grand

Thanks Will! :)

Somehow if someone says Espace to me, I think JE model and silver colour. Black is cooler, but somehow the Espace should be silver...  8)

It would be an awful lot of black paint to try to keep looking clean! Silver is surprisingly good at hiding a layer of grime.

True true!  :D