MatraSport Forum

Each model => Murena => Topic started by: Jon Weywadt on November 02, 2012, 07:53:39 pm



Title: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on November 02, 2012, 07:53:39 pm
Today I finally got time to install the rear calipers that Roy has renovated for me. :) First I pulled the hubs in order to install the shiny new brake disks.
But, what the #%&#. The bolts holding the disk to the hub, that I had taken out, did not fit the new disks. ??? ??? ??? A thread gauge confirmed that the bolts were 10 mm/1,25 rise, but the holes in the disk had 10mm/1,5 rise.
A call to Simon and they checked that new bolts and disks should be 10mm/1,25. But they had sent me the disk, so they of course offered to send me a new set of disks right away.
All fine, but the day was blown >:(
Worse, the car must go to the MOT on the 13th. Cross my fingers the new disk gets here and weather permits doing the replacement in time. (Car is without wheel outside)


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Oetker on November 02, 2012, 11:26:39 pm
Story of my life.
Planning things and ready to make progress, but the car or parts want let you, keeping the work-spot in use for days.
Its strange, because the rear 2.2 disks are only made for Murena
Factory fault???


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: klumzer on November 03, 2012, 10:59:41 am
Story of my life.

:)
I feel the same since I bought my Murena...

Usually shipping from Simon is quite fast so you can be optimistic.


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: suffolkpete on November 03, 2012, 11:43:46 am
10mm x 1.25mm pitch seems to be a strange French quirk.  Here in the UK, if you ask for a 10mm fastening, you will always get 10mm x 1.5 unless you specify something different.  French cars, not only Matra, but Citroens, Peugeots and Renaults always use 10mm x 1.25.  Obviously the person who re-manufactured the discs didn't understand this.  Had I been in your situation, I would simply have gone round to my local stockist and bought some 10 x 1.5 bolts rather than go to the trouble of sending the discs back.  You may find that the replacements have the same fault.


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on November 05, 2012, 10:13:15 am
10mm x 1.25mm pitch seems to be a strange French quirk.  Here in the UK, if you ask for a 10mm fastening, you will always get 10mm x 1.5 unless you specify something different.  French cars, not only Matra, but Citroens, Peugeots and Renaults always use 10mm x 1.25.  Obviously the person who re-manufactured the discs didn't understand this.  Had I been in your situation, I would simply have gone round to my local stockist and bought some 10 x 1.5 bolts rather than go to the trouble of sending the discs back.  You may find that the replacements have the same fault.

Simons has not asked for the disks back. Not worth the cost, I guess. They are sending me new disks anyway.

About bolts, you will have noticed several 7mm X 1mm in the Murena. Those aren't seen on many other cars.  :D


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Oetker on November 05, 2012, 10:46:14 am
I guess they will send you bolts.
Probably this is the new batch made in Hungary.
They all have the same problem I presume.


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: klumzer on November 05, 2012, 06:42:01 pm
Probably this is the new batch made in Hungary.
They all have the same problem I presume.

I do not think so. I have bought a pair in Hungary and those were perfect. Otherwise human factor can cause any fault during production.

The Hungarian rear discs are available at Carjoy. I do not think that Simon has the same source, but I am not sure in it.


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Oetker on November 05, 2012, 07:01:21 pm
Probably this is the new batch made in Hungary.
They all have the same problem I presume.

I do not think so. I have bought a pair in Hungary and those were perfect. Otherwise human factor can cause any fault during production.

The Hungarian rear discs are available at Carjoy. I do not think that Simon has the same source, but I am not sure in it.


I know Laszlo was busy preparing a batch from Hungary around 2010.
Normaly you see the the items come available  from all sources in Europe.
I don't know if they still co-operate since Ruud is gone at Car-joy.

The disks were unavailable for some time.
That's the reason why I had to switch to Alfa disks.
They work awesome so I will run them till they die.
That can take more then a decade or 2  8)

Greet herman


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on November 21, 2012, 08:10:42 pm
Well the disks had arrived a while back and I got a replacement piston seal from Roy for one of the renovated calipers.
So the other day I started putting things back together again.
The wheel hub that I had so much trouble getting off turned out to give as much trouble putting on. It did not go on far enough for the wheel nut to be able to pull it back on. One thread got hold and, of course, stripped when I tried to let it pull the hub on. Instead I held the back part against the bearing while Jan pounded on a large socket pressed against the hub. After several good whacks there were enough threads engaged on the wheel nut to allow it to pull thee hub back on. With the notch lining up again with the grove in the axle, there was no play, but free movement of the axle. Got the calipers on, but by this time it got too dark outside to continue.
Part two later in the week. ;D


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on November 22, 2012, 06:25:52 pm

Part two later in the week. ;D
Part two:

The second disk installed easy. The hub was fairly easy to pull off but a little more difficult to put back on.
Calipers back on and brake hoses mounted. But the Banjos were a bit rusty on the surface and took some careful filing to get to seal. They are holding for now, but just in case I have ordered a new set of hoses.

Next comes replacement of the gaiters on the rack and pinion steering. I could have sworn that I replaced them right after I got the car 3 years ago. But they are completely shot so I have gotten new ones. Philbert has the same problem. New ones have lasted 3 years. Anyone else having problems with gaiters failing prematurely?

After that comes replacement of the cracked windshield. New one is waiting for fix of probable rust problem in bottom left corner of the frame, where the old one has cracked.

Good thing I have retired or I would never have time to keep up with the repairs.  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Oetker on November 22, 2012, 08:46:41 pm
Quote
---------
Good thing I have retired or I would never have time to keep up with the repairs.  
==========================================================

Just buy another Murena, and it starts looking like work. ::)

It is important to look at the hoses and brakelines.
Most were gone on the cars I have and 30 years old :o
Some didn't even pass fluid.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qPsd9MQzLRI/UB1slq_k6fI/AAAAAAAAA8g/jWLC7T11ATk/s800/P1050180%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on December 25, 2012, 05:53:12 pm
Next comes replacement of the gaiters on the rack and pinion steering.
Well the gathers are replaced with no problems. That was the easy part.
Getting the air out of the brakelines and calipers was next. Had decided to do it without waiting for the new stahlflex hoses I had ordered.
The vent screw on the left banjo bolt came loose grudgingly. Airing it out did not go easy and is still not complete. Reason being that the stuff coming out was like mayonnaise rather than brake fluid. I will have to flush the whole system. >:(
The vent screw on the right banjo bolt broke  :o. So I loosened the banjo bolt and wrapped it in tissue paper and then pumped lots of fluid through. After tightening it up the brakes seemed pretty firm. But I will do it again after the stahlflex hoses arrive.

Update.
Well the hoses did arrive. But the supplied banjo bolts do not have a vent screw. >:( Worse. they have the wrong thread. they are 10mmX1mm where as  the calipers and original banjo bolts are 10mmX1,25mm thread.
I have written for a replacement. Hopefully they have them in stainless steel like the ones they sent. If not, I have found a pair on ebay that are 10mmX1,25mm with vent screw, but not stainless. We shall see.

The result of all this is that the car still has not been to its MOT. It should have been there on November 13th. I have called to ask what I can do. They say they will send me a (stern) reminder between Christmas and New years and after that I have 2 weeks to get it passed. If not I will receive a 2000 DKK. fine. Optionally I can turn in the license plates (un-register it  :()  Then I will have to buy new plates for it when I get it running. Still cheaper than the fine, so we shall see. It is going to be a race between getting new bolts, airing out the brakes and getting through the MOT before the deadline. Wish me luck. :D

PS. Anyone want to buy a Matra Murena 2.2? Lots of spare parts. :D :D :D


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.th
Post by: TimS on December 25, 2012, 06:52:49 pm
Had similar trouble with the rear ones on mine. Have bled the whole system, fronts work well but there is little braking with the foot pedal at the rear. How much is normal through the pedal?

The handbrake though works well.


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.th
Post by: suffolkpete on December 26, 2012, 11:09:19 am
Had similar trouble with the rear ones on mine. Have bled the whole system, fronts work well but there is little braking with the foot pedal at the rear. How much is normal through the pedal?

The handbrake though works well.
I'm sure I've seen my car lock the rear wheels on the rollers at MoT time.  If you are having trouble bleeding the rear brakes, try removing the calipers, turning them upside down and bleeding through the nipple which is normally at the bottom before replacing them and bleeding through the banjo connection nipple.  Otherwise I would look at the pressure reducer for the rear brakes.  I think there is a thread on them in this forum.


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.th
Post by: Jon Weywadt on December 26, 2012, 11:54:21 am
Otherwise I would look at the pressure reducer for the rear brakes.  I think there is a thread on them in this forum.

I agree with Pete that the reduction valve could be the problem. There is a post here about the valve:
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,1728.0.html



Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.th
Post by: Oetker on December 26, 2012, 02:20:52 pm
Had similar trouble with the rear ones on mine. Have bled the whole system, fronts work well but there is little braking with the foot pedal at the rear. How much is normal through the pedal?

The handbrake though works well.

Controlled all the hoses? or better replaced.
They can look like this.

(http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/7553/remslangrancho.jpg)
pic Muddy


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: northmurena on December 26, 2012, 02:46:39 pm
Wow. I have never thought that something like this can happen.


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: TimS on December 26, 2012, 11:35:27 pm
All my hoses have been replaced so are good. The bleed nipples aren't in very good condition at the back and really need replacing. But I might try taking the calipers off and rebleeding the rears.

Where is the pressure reducing valve located?



Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Oetker on December 27, 2012, 12:53:10 am

Where is the pressure reducing valve located?


Jut before the rear right wheel look up and you see this.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bmztzBKMKL8/UBli0Sa6QQI/AAAAAAAAA2A/J-Sld_EHX2s/s800/P1050145%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on December 29, 2012, 08:49:13 pm
Update.
 If not, I have found a pair on ebay that are 10mmX1,25mm with vent screw, but not stainless. We shall see.

PS. Anyone want to buy a Matra Murena 2.2? Lots of spare parts. :D :D :D

The banjo bolts from eBay arrived and are a perfect fit. Plus they have the bleed valve in the top.  :D

But the letter from the MOT people also arrived, pointing out that I now have 2 weeks to get it certified or I will get a 2000 DDK fine.

That is cutting it close, what with new years and all. Wish me luck. I will replace the hoses, bleed the system, but then take it to a brake shop and have the entire system flushed to make sure all water is gone. (I did not like the mayonnaise stuff coming out of the left hose) >:(


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on December 29, 2012, 08:49:56 pm
Update.
 If not, I have found a pair on ebay that are 10mmX1,25mm with vent screw, but not stainless. We shall see.

PS. Anyone want to buy a Matra Murena 2.2? Lots of spare parts. :D :D :D

The banjo bolts from eBay arrived and are a perfect fit. Plus they have the bleed valve in the top.  :D

But the letter from the MOT people also arrived, pointing out that I now have 2 weeks to get it certified or I will get a 2000 DDK fine.  :o :o :o

That is cutting it close, what with new years and all. Wish me luck. I will replace the hoses, bleed the system, but then take it to a brake shop and have the entire system flushed to make sure all water is gone. (I did not like the mayonnaise stuff coming out of the left hose) >:(


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Oetker on January 02, 2013, 07:10:00 am
Good idea from a Belgium club member for bleeding the brakes  using a motorcycle tire ;D

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IKtrG6orq_0/UOPOIWb0s6I/AAAAAAAACZ4/OAavJeCo_a0/s472/Bleeding.jpg)
pic Urbain

0.8 bar in the tire and piece of cake when no one is around to help.




Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on January 03, 2013, 12:52:22 pm
Good idea from a Belgium club member for bleeding the brakes  using a motorcycle tire ;D

pic Urbain

0.8 bar in the tire and piece of cake when no one is around to help.


I like that.  :D Will have to try it.
Got the MOT appointment set for wednesday, january 9th. Just two days before they slap a fine on me. Hope it goes through. :o


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on January 08, 2013, 09:42:24 am
Got the Murena on the road ready for the MOT.  ;D

It fought me again, though. The nut on the old brake lines were frozen and had to be destroyed to get them off the old hoses.  >:(
Fortunately there was enough bake line to crimp new ends and replace the nut.
Didn't check first, though. So the first nut I put on had thee wrong thread.  >:( >:( >:(
Had not realized that some are metric and some are inch. the new hoses were metric.
Fortunately Jan had both types in stock. (He has just about everything  ;D )
After bleeding the brakes they are rock solid.  I drive the car today to let the brakes settle so they have full grip for the MOT tomorrow.
 
And another thing. ::)
Earlier I had rolled the drivers window down. Rolling it up it suddenly stopped and the motor whirred and the glass slid down. ???
Removing the inner door lining it turned out that the plastic cap on the gear housing had popped off. It is crimped onto the metal casing but the drag on the window had created so much force that it popped off. Holding it pressed in place, the window could grudgingly be rolled up.
No time for a proper fix, so I made a bracket across 2 of the motor mounting bolts, with a M6 thread hole in the middle over the cap. A 6mm bolt could then be adjusted to create enough pressure to hold it in place. At least the window will not fall down by itself until I get time to take the motor out and fix it properly.


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Oetker on January 08, 2013, 10:17:05 am
Most stuff on the brake lines is M10x1.
Only at the back calipers it is different.
There seems to be banjo's that fits the Murena.
Then you can use normal m10x1 hoses.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hIO8xr9wK1M/UHWxzpLonWI/AAAAAAAAB2U/FuU05-RnuFA/s800/P1050503%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)
Never found them for sale.
They look the same as Bagheera banjo's but they have thread M10x1 and the Bagheera banjo's are different because they don't need the bleed nipple.
Good luck with the MOT.

Greets Herman


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on January 08, 2013, 02:35:04 pm

Good luck with the MOT.

Greets Herman

Thanks Herman.
I took the car for a long drive at speed  ;D to clear out the engine since it had been sitting for half a year and only run at idle with the choke pulled.
Everything felt great, so I checked the MOT people to see if they had empty slots today and they did.

The car just passed its MOT with no faults noted.  :D :D :D :D

Now I just need to replace the wind shield, which is cracked and leaking. The floor mats are soaking wet. >:(
Right now the car is siting under a tarp with a dehumidifier running in front of the passenger seats. Hope to dry it out by tomorrow.


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Oetker on January 08, 2013, 04:28:04 pm
Congratulations,

If you gonna do the front screen, then also take the roof of to put new kit on.
Almost all Murena's the kit is dry an broken at the rear side and side mounting points.
Then it is only hold by a few rivets there.
You can't get the roof of with the front screen in, so better do both at once.

Greetings Herman


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on January 08, 2013, 04:58:29 pm
----
You can't get the roof of with the front screen in, so better do both at once.

Greetings Herman

Good suggestion. I will remember that. :D


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: klumzer on January 08, 2013, 09:54:02 pm
Congratulation for the MOT. :)

Have you bought the new windshield yet?

If not, it is worth contacting the local Pilkington dealer, I think. They were cheaper than others on Internet (e.g. E-bay).


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Jon Weywadt on January 09, 2013, 10:02:45 am
Congratulation for the MOT. :)

Have you bought the new windshield yet?

If not, it is worth contacting the local Pilkington dealer, I think. They were cheaper than others on Internet (e.g. E-bay).

Thanks for the info. I already have the windshield, though. I got it through a Danish dealer in northern Jutland. The price was reasonable, though I don't remember how much. :(


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: Oetker on January 10, 2013, 10:01:53 am
If you buy at Pilkington CZ, they go for less then Ç200 if you buy more then 5 as far as I know.
They only have bronze tinted and not the blank screens that were mounted on first generation 1600.
The club bought some stock for the members, that's how I know.

Regards Herman


Title: Re: Renovated Calipers, New disks and Pads, butů.
Post by: klumzer on January 10, 2013, 08:19:34 pm
Yes, it was about Ç200. I could have ordered both tinted and colourless windscreen, but I had to wait for the production 1,5-2 months.