MatraSport Forum

Is there any of you who have a set of instructions on how to replace the ball joints? Preferably in English and with photos/drawings. ???
 
I have the workshop manual in German, but it offers only a sparse description and it says nothing about how to prep for the replacement, such as do you have to unmount thee torsion bars, sway bar, etc.

It’s very straight forward just remember that the  assembly is under tension so this has to be released first.
Drivers side first so you can release the speedo cable and clean and grease the fitting.

Get the front of the car up on axle stands, wheels of so access to the calliper bolts is easier as you can turn the hubs unhindered.
Remove brake wear sensor  then the calliper  (17 or 19mm) and support don’t let it dangle on the brake flexi.
Remove the speedo cable retaining clip and pray it comes loose other wise plenty of penetrating spray NO HEAT you will kill the cable. Leave the spray to do its job and deal with it later.
Jack under the lower arm until the car is almost of the axle stands and the upper arm has clearance between itself and the top rail of the chassis leg.
Loosen either the top ball joint nut (16mm) or the 2 ball joint assembly retaining bolts (13mm) and push the upper arm up out of the way checking resistance.
The hub assembly has a Soft Flesh Attraction Feature and it weighs a bit so be careful with your fingers and head when it comes loose.
The resistance on the upper arm should be firm and equal through its stroke other wise bush replacement  and financial / mental torment is imminent.
Lower the lower arm on the jack until free. It will be held in place by the max stroke of the shock absorber. CHECK the car hasn’t jiggled about on the stands.
Loosen the lower ball joint nut and remove the whole hub assembly.
Replace parts as required.
Don’t worry about the ARB the relative pressure exerted by the imbalance between sides is minimal.

I can’t remember the bolt sizes as it was last year but they are there or there about.
Both ball joints come with new nuts so if you are struggling just cut them of. Plenty of Copper grease on reassembly as all joints in my opinion should be fully tight rather than torqued.

Removing the lower ball joint can be a nightmare and is best discussed when you get to that point as options are varied.
Sorry no pictures.

"Removing the lower ball joint can be a nightmare and is best discussed when you get to that point as options are varied."

I totally agree with you Gib ;-)

I´m just restoring a complete car and i´m actually at the point to overhaul the axes. I gave up with trying to get the lower ball joint out. It is rusted so much and so i took it to the local smith. He had also given up, was just there after i didn´t heared from him since last week :-( He gave it now to somebody else, who should try his luck.

Any tips from your side ?

Regards
Kai 

I ended up cutting the lower ball joint on one side into many parts and then using a hammer and cold chisel.
The other lower ball joint came out with in seconds of looking at and still had plenty of copper grease in the threads proving its worth.
Sorry for the shaky picture.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/gengis-khan/20151119_124305_zpsealhsinc.jpg) (http://s380.photobucket.com/user/gengis-khan/media/20151119_124305_zpsealhsinc.jpg.html)

Thanks Gib. So it is like it is so often: the good old hammer is the solution ;-)

Hammer and chisel and a bit of heating.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nDxDYZgSF1s/VE_ie-e1S7I/AAAAAAAAFdU/Ig5YgVkYW94/s800/P1070678%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

Easy to loosen.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mmuj59DMxuk/VFKHyhDApGI/AAAAAAAAFg0/EruPK41Etvw/s800/P1070715%2520%2528Custom%2529.JPG)

There is a lot of wrong info about the lower balljoints.
Sellers provide wrong info saying Rancho Simca 1100 bagheera and Murena have the same type balljoints.
Only Murena and Solara share the same ball-joints the others have a smaller type.
Be shure to have the right type.

Herman

Lower ball joints: I have not tried to change them, but it looks to be difficult, however I have a set in the store” just in case”.
However I have changed the upper ball joints a couple of times. You will need a special tool: In Danish it is called “Styrekugle aftrækker”. And you can get it from Biltema, Harald Nyborg, T-Hansen, Heyer etc.
Last time a changed an upper ball joint the special tool was not sufficient to get the ball off the upper arm In the first attempt I broke the tool !! I got a new tool, heat the arm a lot and finally use a new big hammer.
Hans

@ Hans: i used a two-arms "aftrækker" for getting the ball-joints out. Of course there were sitting realla really tight. I sat the "aftrækker" under press and used heat. After short time it just made "blob" and the joints were loose. Have tried it before without heat, no chance.

@ Herman: do you talking about these lower-ball-joints: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Trag-Fuhrungsgelenk-Vorderachse-beidseitig-TALBOT-RTS-93-00204-/121977421965?hash=item1c666bc08d:g:~8AAAOSwRH5XKyRO

I have just ordered two of them after i got also the smaller ones ( for Simca 1100 etc. ) from another surplier.

Best regards
Kai

That´s the "aftrækker" i used:

Yep thats the righ one 48mm and 14mm QSJ815(S)
If you buy TC93 from Delphi you have the wrong one.
Delphi right number is TC-200 but I never saw one.
Always verify with the seller if they have the right thread.
If no answer, don't buy.
Some fabrics copied specs from Delphi catalog so there are  several wrong items around.
(https://s26.postimg.org/ccb3fii15/QSJ815_S.jpg)

Herman

So my set looks like it is the correct one.  :D

It looks like there is a clip missing around the top, as seen on the last photo??? Are you expected to reuse the old one? ???

Jon

You can use a rubber "O" ring for that.

John

Bought new as is but indeed a o-ring wil do it.

When buying upper ball-joints, buy them from the same brand.
Both on the picture were intended for Murena/Bagheera/Simca  but as you can see there are differences.
(https://s26.postimg.org/42v36qfux/verschil_uppers.jpg)
pic Richard

Herman

But same brand, same manufacturer, same surplier, same part-number is not evrytime a quarantee for getting exact the same parts :-(

i would prefer a propper tool.  ;)

Such as https://www.amazon.de/BGS-Traggelenk-Zapfenschlüssel-Citroen-Peugeot-5422/dp/B00E40LUF6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476792611&sr=8-1&keywords=bgs+5422 (https://www.amazon.de/BGS-Traggelenk-Zapfenschlüssel-Citroen-Peugeot-5422/dp/B00E40LUF6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476792611&sr=8-1&keywords=bgs+5422)
But would it fit, or does anyone of you know thee proper part number for a pin-wrench that fits?

-Jon

There are multiple sizes available in peg sockets but to be honest your best bet is to remove which ever way you can and then torque up using a cup socket as below. they are expensive but a lot hardier than peg sockets.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo241/gengis-khan/f5d8620e-0cea-4bde-b4d5-257140526fea_zpspm2nzt41.jpg) (http://s380.photobucket.com/user/gengis-khan/media/f5d8620e-0cea-4bde-b4d5-257140526fea_zpspm2nzt41.jpg.html)

Hi Jon
The „Traggelenk-Zapfenschlüssel“ which you have found on Amazon  will not fit. The inside messurement om the socket is 42.3 mm while the Murena’s joint messures 51.2.
You can find the messurremnts on BGS’s home page:
http://www.bgstechnic.com/products/detail/7033

Hi Jon

I just found a 10 YEAR old photo of my old lower ball joints..  can´t believe it´s 10 years ago.

Regards Frederik

Hej Frederik.

Cutting off the pin and converting the collar to hex shape is pretty radical, but it worked.  ;D
I hope mine will come out with a regular peg socket. Jan is making one he tells me. :)

Regards.
Jon

Where di  you get those peg sockets and what brand/size are they?

-Jon

Years ago i bought  lower ball joints TC93  and  upper TC92.  I want to fit them to my murena , but i understand that the lower ball joints won't fit? I need the 48 mm versiion?

And the upper versions are the right one's? Tc 92. Or do i have to buy new one's also?

I'm in hospital right now so can't verify but according to this website it looks OK

https://www.oscaro.com/rotule-de-suspension-delphi-tc92-1347298-2462-p

Jon, Sealey have a kit with two peg sockets for removing the lower ball joints on the Murena (and other cars such as the 911 and 405 etc.) and the kit is number SX0271 (around £15 at present from the right place) and they come in a proper plastic carrying case too. :)

When you put the socket over the pin of the ball joint and with the pegs engaged, the ball joint swivel pin sticks out the other end.  You put the ball joint nut back on the end of the ball joint swivel pin and tighten it, thus locking the socket to the ball joint.  The special socket has a hexagon around the area where the ball joint nut goes, and you then use a large socket and bar on this hexagon to rotate the special socket and ball joint to undo it, or tighten in a new one to the set torque.

Check out https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-SX0271-Lower-Joint-Socket/dp/B002BFADSQ/ref=pd_lpo_263_bs_t_2/254-8869432-0229110?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NVXHA8GE8X4Y5ZGVNPF9

The larger socket is the one that fits the Murena.

Roy

Hi Roy.

Thanks for the link to amazon.co.uk. I tried to buy it (only £15), but they do not deliver to my address in Denmark.

I found it on eBay at a cost of £27 incl. shipping to Denmark, so I placed an order.  :D

Thanks again.
Jon

The sockets have arrived. ;D They look good and fit perfectly.
Need to find a, not too thick, washer so the nut can hold the socket in place. The nut will fit in the hole in the socket, so a washer is a must.