MatraSport Forum

Each model => Murena => Topic started by: Anders Dinsen on March 17, 2019, 12:24:31 pm



Title: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on March 17, 2019, 12:24:31 pm
So, the old faithful Murena was taken off the road and garaged a couple of years ago. Lack of time maintaining her made it a good decision back then. And frankly, I've been too busy to miss her much, just happy to have her sitting comfortably in a dry, ventilated space.

But the time has come to change the status quo and get some of the work done which was beginning to be pressing when I put her in the garage, especially the paint work which has frankly been dodgy since I bought her. Some of the English Club members may remember my car as "TVP", which from 1986 until Roy took her over, lived her life outside, in London. She had some repaired parking damages, but never a complete respray, only panels done - and frankly, the jobs done left a bit to wish for. So I'm rather looking forward to bringing her back in the pretty shape she deserves :)

First, however, I need to work rusty bolts, annoyning rivets, and probably even some glue.

Here's the first photo showing the current state of progress.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on March 17, 2019, 12:34:53 pm
I have a slightly annoying problem with these brackets, which are attaching the rear bumper to the chassis. Each is fitted in the trunk with two bolts. I had to cut the bolts and now I'm left with the nuts in cages with what's remaining of the bolts stuck in them. Here's a couple of options:

  • Fix the nut (which is sitting in a cage on the rear) in a vice and use a strong grip to turn the remains of the bolts out.
  • Grind the edge of the cages so they can be opened enough to remove the nuts and bolts, fit new nuts and weld the cages back
  • Buy new brackets


Any experience/good ideas?


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Jon Weywadt on March 17, 2019, 02:59:27 pm
I have a slightly annoying problem with these brackets, which are attaching the rear bumper to the chassis. Each is fitted in the trunk with two bolts. I had to cut the bolts and now I'm left with the nuts in cages with what's remaining of the bolts stuck in them. Here's a couple of options:

  • Fix the nut (which is sitting in a cage on the rear) in a vice and use a strong grip to turn the remains of the bolts out.
  • Grind the edge of the cages so they can be opened enough to remove the nuts and bolts, fit new nuts and weld the cages back
  • Buy new brackets


Any experience/good ideas?

Why would you need cages? Grind them off, unless there is no room to get a wrench on the nut while assembling.

Besides, what a beautiful Bosch tool. That is one I am missing in my collection of blue Bosch tools.  :D


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on March 17, 2019, 05:05:27 pm
Why would you need cages? Grind them off, unless there is no room to get a wrench on the nut while assembling.


You have a point there, Jon! There should be enough space to do it. It won't be easy but since an assistant is needed anyway to hold and align the bumper while assembling, it should be doable :)

Quote
Besides, what a beautiful Bosch tool. That is one I am missing in my collection of blue Bosch tools.  :D


It's a lovely little machine! Not that strong and runs on small 100 mm discs, but very efficient and handy :)

/Anders


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 06, 2019, 01:02:44 pm
Work is progressing well as I'm preparing her for the paint job she will eventually be receiving. In the process, I found the glue on the right rear fender being loose and I managed to scrape out the peice of resin shown in the last picture below. This resin doesn't look right to me as I would have expected something more flexible. This indicates to me there has been a repair. The glue on the other side is fine and still seems a bit flexible.

I checked the repair manual, which instructs "dictungsklebestreifen", i.e. sealant strips to be made to refit the fenders. There's a reference number given for a Dichtungskleberpatrone 00 328 173 00. What is the right sealant to use?

I'm not going to remove the fenders, so this will just be filled properly.



Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 06, 2019, 09:52:17 pm
More progress...


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: JL on April 06, 2019, 10:26:51 pm
Hi Anders
You are making good progress, Upol Tigerseal or any good polyurethane sealer/adhesive will work to attach the rear wing/fender.
Regards
John


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 07, 2019, 02:45:58 pm
You are making good progress, Upol Tigerseal or any good polyurethane sealer/adhesive will work to attach the rear wing/fender.

Thanks, John! That shouldn't be too much of a problem fixing than.

If it wasn't for work, daily duties, and work on the other cars in the "stable", we'd be progressing much faster :)


/Anders


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 14, 2019, 05:19:57 pm
Had good progress again today as we removed the right hand side sill. the headlights and the front bumper. Still some way to go, and I've also run into a few new issues, e.g. I realized the headlight lifting mechanism is stuck, two of the headlight bolts snapped, and the rear hatch cable boke off by the handle (hence the alternative "keeping hatch closed" feature in the lower picture), but these are just minor issues which are probably easy to fix. And I've been able to check a few boxes in my TODO-list :)

/Anders


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 20, 2019, 01:00:06 pm
Deciding what to work on and sticking to that is important in order to keep a systematic approach to the work when it's done in spare time, but I changed my mind about working on the rear and has turned the car around in the garage to get started on the front.

There are multiple reasons for that: My garage barely allows me to work around the car, so the end that I'm active on needs to be by the door. Second, finishing something is always good, it doesn't help working on everything at the same time, and the front can be finished now. Third, there are so many rivets, wires, screws, rusty metal parts that actually finishing the front will involve a decent amount of work which will be good to have in status "done" once I take the engine out. Fourth, I can't get the rear done until I remove the exhaust, which I don't want to do until I'm ready to take the engine out.

So below are pictures of her current state. Next up is removing the battery well, shocks, wheels, steering rack and a few other parts to get access to the chassis so that it can be carefully cleaned and zinc sprayed in salty and corroded areas. It looks quite good, though.

I may need a new radiator, by the way.

BTW, the problem with the headlight mechanism was that the vacuum actuator has seized in the shaft. I don't think I can repair it so will need a new one. If someone has one lying around, I'll be willing to pay a good price :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on April 21, 2019, 08:53:55 pm
Hi there. I had the same problem with my rear bumper brackets! I ground them as flush as I could get them bent the cage where it is not welded and removed them. Then fitted new nuts bent them back into shape and added a spot of weld. That way the bolts could still move along the channel for adjustment. Took about half an hour. 


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 22, 2019, 06:42:57 am
Hi there. I had the same problem with my rear bumper brackets! I ground them as flush as I could get them bent the cage where it is not welded and removed them. Then fitted new nuts bent them back into shape and added a spot of weld. That way the bolts could still move along the channel for adjustment. Took about half an hour. 

That's the better solution! The cages are now gone on mine, so a little helper will be needed when we get to refitting the bumper.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 22, 2019, 07:35:19 pm
The vacuum actuator turned out to be fixable. I opened it using a pair of pliers. Once opened I could remove the tube in which the shaft should slide. It required a good amount to force to pull it out, but I got it out without visible damage to the shaft.

The problem seems to be the blue O-ring seal, which fits inside the tube and has broken. A part of it has probably found its way down by the shaft and caused it to stick.

It's not a standard round O-ring, but rectangular and slightly conical in cross section, not unlike the seals that fit around brake pistons, so I'll have to do some research to find it. Some kind of grease also need to be applied to the shaft before assembly, and the halves must be cleaned and painted, of course.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 23, 2019, 09:32:18 pm
So, I've learnt something new today, namely that pneumatic seals are lip seals. The old seal had completely lost its lip! The shaft is 10 mm, the outer diameter of the old seal is 18, and the height appears to be 4 mm.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Moes on April 25, 2019, 09:15:37 am
Hi Anders

Nice to see and follow the work you are doing on your Murena, I am looking forward to see whats next, and the end result  :D 

Have you decided to keep it in red, or are you (and your sons) considering any other colors?

I has been a long time, I would like to stop by some day, when your are working on her.

Best regards Frederik


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 25, 2019, 06:54:10 pm
Hej Frederik!

So am I (looking forward to what's next and the end result!) - I have a plan, but also do what makes sense to do, and like the vacuum actuator, I don't always know what comes next. Red is the colour of my car, by definition, original and beautiful. The correct red, of course :) Years ago, I wanted her to be dark blue, and I still think that's a beautiful colour for the Murena, but that's not my car ;)

You are always very welcome here! This weekend will be busy with other stuff, but next weekend perhaps. We can figure out something on Messenger, I think :)

/Anders


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 28, 2019, 04:48:48 pm
Just some photos showing todays progress and some details of the chassis. As can be seen, there's some surface corrosion in the chassis on the right side behind the radiator. Nothing serious, though.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Jon Weywadt on April 30, 2019, 12:04:37 pm
Judging from some of the photos of brackets and such, it is time to break out the concentrated Phosphoric acid, to neutralise the rust, before painting with Hammerite.
That was some of the first I did to mine way back when.  ;D


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 03, 2019, 07:03:25 am
Judging from some of the photos of brackets and such, it is time to break out the concentrated Phosphoric acid, to neutralise the rust, before painting with Hammerite.
That was some of the first I did to mine way back when.  ;D

You're right, there are several items that need just that treatment! This one cannot be saved, though.

But it's not the next thing to do: I've decided to steam clean the chassis and that will be my next job, and then brushing down the two rusty surfaces on the chassis, both in preparation for a layer or two of cold-galvanization. Expect more over the weekend :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 04, 2019, 05:33:13 pm
Today's small jobs completed:

  • Bought a steam cleaner
  • Left hand coolant pipe was rubbing against the bracket for the vacuum actuator for the headlights, now it's fixed to the chassis
  • Radiator is out
  • Steering rack is out as well
  • Some surface rust wire brushed, pic shows area in front of the cabin fan


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 05, 2019, 06:48:02 am
The front of the Murena is where lots of of wires, cables, pipes, attachments, bars meet. That's probably the most annoying thing about working on the front: It's a complicated "mess". Most cars have are the same in this respect, of course.

Stripping the front completely is not on my agenda. My car is well kept and good, so there's no need to removing any suspension, brake system, wiring etc.

But not stripping things does make things a bit more complicated: It feels a little like cooking a menu in a too small, unordered kitchen: It can be done, but it requires more concentration and moving things around - and probably a bit more time for thinking, planning, and coffee breaks :)

I was going to upload a picture of the "mess", but then I had second thoughts and chose this one instead, taken in the evening sun yesterday. It's showing thin rust protection dripping out from the inside of the front cross member. To me, that's beauty :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 06, 2019, 09:17:21 pm
Steam cleaning... not hyper efficient in itself, but helps dissolve road dirt so it can be brushed away :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 06, 2019, 09:26:56 pm
Right side, steam cleaned. Left side, uncleaned.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on May 07, 2019, 07:31:18 pm
Impressive. I may get one of those.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 08, 2019, 06:21:56 am
Impressive. I may get one of those.

I think it's worth the money. The steam helps dissolve the dirt so it can be brushed off. I use a combination of various rotating steel and cleaning brushes. It takes time, but it's rewarding to see something like this. Blasting is probably faster, but has its own issues. There are other areas where the road dirt is really stuck, though. Still working on those!


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 11, 2019, 08:28:24 am
Ok, it's time for a quiz... what is this? :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 12, 2019, 07:10:43 am
First picture is how the Zinga zinc paint turns out, not quite white, but very light grey. See my post on the corrosion thread about this product http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php/topic,2502.0.html

Second is the right hand front on the inside after brushing. Still some dust and dirt to remove before spraying it, but I'm almost there now. Last picture is a very dusty Murena :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 17, 2019, 05:12:51 pm
Right side finally cleaned down enough to receive its zinc coat. Looks pretty, I think! Left side is now in progress. I removed the brackets for the coolant pipes under the car to be able to move them around more when I'm working and they are not recoverable  ::)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on May 17, 2019, 05:46:34 pm
That looks great. Are you going to leave it like that as it has a certain "new" look to it or spray it?


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 17, 2019, 06:46:40 pm
I'm probably going to leave most of it exposed as it is as it allows me to see if it "works". The zinga paint is supposed to re-galvanize the steel below by a chemical reaction similar to what happens in warm galvanization, just cold and therefore much slower. The only problem with zinga paint is that it requires a very clean surface, especially regarding the salty white corrosion which our cars naturally suffer from. Red rust is actually not as critical since the zinc can slowly "eat" through it, but the white salts create a boundary between the metal and the zinc-paint so that no re-galvanization takes place.

There are areas which I can't clean to the required standard, e.g. inside the beams. I will spray those areas with a very thin penetrating corrosion protection product based on linseed oil. This should stop any corrosion, including white rust. I plan to give the suspension components that tratement too, just followed by a layer of black corrosion protection which hardens to a thick layer (the linseed oil based product is extremely thin and seems to take weeks to harden, and even then it keeps flowing, so will need to be refreshed from time to time).


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on May 17, 2019, 07:16:05 pm
I was curious when looking at your photos. Both my cars had exactly the corrosion at the same place. The only thing i could think of was it was very near where the cooling pipes run so maybe the jeat or a small escape of hot air steam could have caused it.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 17, 2019, 08:30:38 pm
That's interesting!

I had the same thought, so I asked Roy who maintained my car for the owner while it was running in England, whether he knew of any coolant leak by the lower hose. He didn't and suggested that the corrosion could be due to the galvanization being thin in these areas. Inspecting the problem closely, I had to agree, and actually could even spot the edges of the zinc layer around the corroded areas.

Now, if you look at this photo, you can actually see that the right hand side of the car was on top when the chassis was submerged in the zinc bath. I think the corrosion we are seeing are signs of bubbles having developed during the galvanization on the inside of the front beams.

(http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Gallery2/Med/galv_2.jpg)

Source: http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Gallery2/Med/galv_2.html


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 19, 2019, 07:16:34 pm
Some pictures taken today with my DSLR. I have an album on Flickr with the photos, by the way: https://www.flickr.com/photos/adinsen/albums/72157674225364871


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on May 19, 2019, 08:41:34 pm
Very nice album. What wheels are those with youur winter tyres ?


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 19, 2019, 08:59:50 pm
Very nice album. What wheels are those with youur winter tyres ?

Thanks. They are Borbet CA, it's a good rim for winter use as it has a heavy coat of paint on the inside. Also it was available in a size fitting the Murena:
https://www.borbet.de/de/ca-crystal-silver

I don't have tyres on the original rims, that's why I've got her on the winter tyres. I might sell them once I''ve got the original rims tyred and back on the car as I don't expect to run her in snow (though the Murena is quite good in snow!)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 25, 2019, 07:50:02 am
The vacuum actuator is now functional again, just waiting to be refitted. The seal I've fitted is an 18x10x4 oil seal. The little cover which the seal used to be sitting in is reused to hold the seal. It's fitted with liquid gasket. The shaft is lightly oiled and everything is cleaned, sanded, brushed, fitted and pressed together, and painted with zinga plus a coat of alu-zinc paint to make it look fresh :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 26, 2019, 08:11:34 am
Discovered a small problem yesterday as the bellow around the lower joint has split. I think I've found one of the right size on eBay, but so far hasn't had success releasing the nut in order to split the arm from the ball joint and take a correct measure. For some reason, there's a plastic cover sitting around the nut so I can't get a perfect grip on the nut and has therefore not wanted to apply force. I guess I'll let it soak rust solvent a few days more and perhaps cut down the plastic. I wonder if anyone would know why it's there (the plastic)?


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on May 26, 2019, 02:17:19 pm
Sorry Anders just checked.mine and they dont have that ( sort of washer) Bit of a guess....could it be to lock tbe nut in place?


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 26, 2019, 02:41:46 pm
Sorry Anders just checked.mine and they dont have that ( sort of washer) Bit of a guess....could it be to lock tbe nut in place?

Thanks for checking, Terry! Yes, it looks like it's a washer of some sort, shaped like a bowl with edges. You may be right. I'll take a better picture looking from below. The nut is a locknut, so I don't see why additional locking would be needed. I had the lower joints replaced for precaution 12 years ago, so it is certainly not 'original' :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on May 26, 2019, 03:13:42 pm
What am I talking about? of course mine wouldn't look like that as I replaced mine too..however I found a photo showing the track rod ends before I replaced them and they have the same washer..... I also dug out the "old" nut from the ball joints and will post a photo.it shows a locking mechanism and I distinctly now remember they had the same washer which I just cut off. I f you zoom in to the track rod end you will see it


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on May 26, 2019, 03:30:23 pm
a better picture also the "nut" the washer I think went "around" the locking part.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 26, 2019, 08:50:13 pm
Thank you, Terry! So apparantly it's a thing with some ball joints. A google search so far haven't given me any clue, and as the picture here shows, it's obviously not locking anything... It's a mystery! ;D


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on May 27, 2019, 11:01:17 am
Hi Anders sorry to be a pain. Going back to your wheels,
I am presuming they are 14 4 x 100!  How near to the et did you get them?


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 27, 2019, 08:08:50 pm
Hi Anders sorry to be a pain. Going back to your wheels,
I am presuming they are 14 4 x 100!  How near to the et did you get them?

Ha!, that took a bit of checking my files and the rims, but here we go: They're 6Jx14 ET30, LK4x98 with Alfa/Fiat/Lancia center rings "ZP 5237" (don't know what that number means).

I bought them from Reifen.com in 2006, and I still have the invoice :)

I don't remember the ET of the original Murena rims just now, but 30 is quite close to that, AFAIR.
No, they're not 4x100, but 98 mm bolt circle.

Now that I'm at it, here are two photos of Sunday's work, one showing upper control arm rust protected. I disconnected it from the upper ball joint and gave it first a coat of linseed oil, then a coat of black rust protection. It's still very sticky after 24 hours, so I need to keep the front suspension lifted a bit to avoid it staining the chassis. Plenty of cardboard pieces helped shield the spray from the chassis, but the pretty white zinga did take a few stains. Not that it matters... :)

The other photo is showing the almost clean inside of the front left chassis beam. Still some work to do before it can be zinga-coated.

/Anders



Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on May 27, 2019, 08:26:26 pm
Thanks Anders. Original et is 28.
That looks like new...Great work. Must take some time.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 27, 2019, 10:18:30 pm
Thanks Anders. Original et is 28.
That looks like new...Great work. Must take some time.

Thank you... progress is  quite slow indeed, especially in all the little corners... but underneath the sand, dirt, and salt is ... beautiful galvanized steel! It's satisfying work :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: roy4matra on May 28, 2019, 03:29:51 pm
Discovered a small problem yesterday as the bellow around the lower joint has split. I think I've found one of the right size on eBay, but so far hasn't had success releasing the nut in order to split the arm from the ball joint and take a correct measure. For some reason, there's a plastic cover sitting around the nut so I can't get a perfect grip on the nut and has therefore not wanted to apply force. I guess I'll let it soak rust solvent a few days more and perhaps cut down the plastic. I wonder if anyone would know why it's there (the plastic)?

The white plastic washer/shield (if that is what you are talking about Anders) was there partly to protect the rubber gaiter from stones I believe.  Many cars have 'lost' them as they often get broken when taking the nut off the ball joint swivel.

You say the nut wont come off, but I have only had that problem if I tried to use a socket with a hand tool such as a ratchet or breaker bar.  The reason is they are too slow and the joint swivel normally separates from the wishbone on the taper before the Nyloc nut is undone, so then the whole thing simply rotates and the nut wont come all the way off the thread!  However, I have always undone them with my impact wrench which is 'too fast' for the joint, and the nut is zipped off before it can start rotating.  Never failed yet.

Roy.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on May 28, 2019, 10:45:02 pm
Discovered a small problem yesterday as the bellow around the lower joint has split. I think I've found one of the right size on eBay, but so far hasn't had success releasing the nut in order to split the arm from the ball joint and take a correct measure. For some reason, there's a plastic cover sitting around the nut so I can't get a perfect grip on the nut and has therefore not wanted to apply force. I guess I'll let it soak rust solvent a few days more and perhaps cut down the plastic. I wonder if anyone would know why it's there (the plastic)?

The white plastic washer/shield (if that is what you are talking about Anders) was there partly to protect the rubber gaiter from stones I believe.  Many cars have 'lost' them as they often get broken when taking the nut off the ball joint swivel.

You say the nut wont come off, but I have only had that problem if I tried to use a socket with a hand tool such as a ratchet or breaker bar.  The reason is they are too slow and the joint swivel normally separates from the wishbone on the taper before the Nyloc nut is undone, so then the whole thing simply rotates and the nut wont come all the way off the thread!  However, I have always undone them with my impact wrench which is 'too fast' for the joint, and the nut is zipped off before it can start rotating.  Never failed yet.

Roy.

Thanks Roy! The nut just came off! I don't have an impact wrench, so I cut down the edges of the washer/shield so that I could get a good grip, put my foot against the lower arm, and pulled strongly on my ratchet. The nut finally gave in and came off just as it should. The taper was well stuck but I got it loose using my ball joint splitter. TRIDAN 85013817 is the replacement part I've ordered now, it's a pack of five, it anyone else would need one.



Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 01, 2019, 10:53:05 pm
Update on the past couple of days:

  • Brushing and zinga painting of the front beams completed
  • Front beam and suspension components corrosion protected
  • Radiator and new coolant pipe brackets ordered and on the way

Next up is refitting the wiring looms and connectors. Could be tomorrow's little job :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on June 02, 2019, 08:00:00 am
Ace job. When you doing the rear?


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 02, 2019, 11:30:19 am
Ace job. When you doing the rear?

Thanks - from the expert on ace jobs, I feel proud:)

Well, when I've fitted the new bellow under the joint, renewed bellows on the steering rack, fitted the new brackets for the water pipes, refitted the steering rack, fitted the radiator, connected the plumbing, connected electrics (battery connections including), vacuum to the headlight mechanism, ground and painted the three cover panels for the wiper motor and blower, refitted the blower and the panels, refitted the horns, painted and refitted the headlight lifter bar, fitted new metal panels on the side and under the radiator, refitted the wheel arches and the battery tub.... I think that's it. Oh yes, before I start doing the chassis on the rear, I need to take the engine out to refit a new seal around the chaincase cover. It will also improve access to the rear. The coming weekends are going to be busy with Le Mans and a conference in New York coming up. Probably sometime over the summer? :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 02, 2019, 08:58:14 pm
New steering rack boots arriving tomorrow. I wonder if fitting without dismantling the tie rod ends will really be possible?

 https://www.vsm.skf.com/mt/en/product-assortment/steering-boot

Video showing installation: https://youtu.be/nMoxlihaGD8



Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: sc1962 on June 03, 2019, 03:19:50 am
let us know how you get on with the boot Anders.iv just done one of mine with replacements fron Matramagic..i had the same idea but had to remove the track rod end.the problem being that despite copious amounts of lube the small end of the boot is very small and  not very stretchy and I feared splitting it.great pics and looking forward to your progress.have you repaired the sills ??? I notice that theyre off the car.and if so what weight fg  matt did you use ?? I need to do mine as well.great work,steve


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 03, 2019, 06:27:39 am
let us know how you get on with the boot Anders.iv just done one of mine with replacements fron Matramagic..i had the same idea but had to remove the track rod end.the problem being that despite copious amounts of lube the small end of the boot is very small and  not very stretchy and I feared splitting it.great pics and looking forward to your progress.have you repaired the sills ??? I notice that theyre off the car.and if so what weight fg  matt did you use ?? I need to do mine as well.great work,steve

Thanks, I'll keep you posted, Steve :) I have had problems with the boots before which cracked after only a year or two. I think all Matra parts vendors are using the same part, and it has hopefully improved in quality since then, but I decided this time to try a universal one from SKF. The Simca track rod ends are quite large, though, so I'm trying to remove them. I have had them off before, and it wasn't a problem then, but they seem to be stuck now.

I haven't looked at the side sills yet, so haven't thought about matt weight yet. I'm doing the chassis first before attending to the body parts.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: sc1962 on June 03, 2019, 03:21:38 pm
yeah I had a sort of cone/funnel to slide the boot on but tbh I bottled it halfway thru.i did the drivers side and the track rod end was l/h thread if that helps when trying to work out which way the nut turns.as I said I ordered from matramagic but imo theyre no better than universal ones cos you have to cut them to size which was a bit disappointing as they were twice the price of universal ones.the only prob I found was that I had two universal qh boots.but the large end diameter was way too small.steve


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 03, 2019, 09:09:45 pm
yeah I had a sort of cone/funnel to slide the boot on but tbh I bottled it halfway thru.i did the drivers side and the track rod end was l/h thread if that helps when trying to work out which way the nut turns.as I said I ordered from matramagic but imo theyre no better than universal ones cos you have to cut them to size which was a bit disappointing as they were twice the price of universal ones.the only prob I found was that I had two universal qh boots.but the large end diameter was way too small.steve

This is the SKF boot mostly fitted (needs strips). It looks nothing like the OEM part, but hopefully is of good quality. The fat end of this one fits perfectly when cut to the largest diameter.

Yeah, I did try turning the wrong way, thanks! but fitting the rack back on the car and inserting the rod end in the upright mount helped stabilize things so I could apply force and get it loose. Lubricating spray in the boot and a plastic bag over the end, and the boot slid in. Getting the remains of the plastic bag out was the last struggle.

Now to the other side :-)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on June 03, 2019, 09:18:57 pm
Had exactly the same problem i  forgot that  .one must be a left hand thread. Once the locking nut was slack i sprayed white greese on the track rod end to mark how far it had to go back on and counted the complete turns to remove the end. Hope ive done it right!


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 05, 2019, 04:16:24 pm
Had exactly the same problem i  forgot that  .one must be a left hand thread. Once the locking nut was slack i sprayed white greese on the track rod end to mark how far it had to go back on and counted the complete turns to remove the end. Hope ive done it right!

Both hare left hand... just saying :)

I'm going to have it professionally aligned when I'm done with everything, so I haven't worried too much about getting it exactly right.

It's election day, constitution day, and a day off, but really too hot here to do anything sensible. But while it was still a bit cool, I fitted this. Some free tips: The top clip is very tight. I pulled it out a bit on the middle and slid on one side of the groove, and then carefully plied it into the groove working both ends. It takes some fiddling. The lower clip should best be fitted on the boot before it's pulled up, I regretted I hadn't :)

If anyone wonders how I can remove the upright without releasing the torsion bar as the instructions say on both Roy's web site and the repair manual, I've suspended the lower control arm on my hydraulic jack. It's a large one with a large platform (the rubber mat on it is visible in the picture), and I find it is a realiable solution for small jobs.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on June 05, 2019, 09:32:34 pm
Exactly how i did it. Great ninds and all that. Really bugging me. I could have sworn one was right hand and one left when I did mine. Will check the weekend


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on June 05, 2019, 09:40:52 pm
Oh....and thanks! Looking at your photo i realised when i replaced.my drop link rubbers i had the bolt through the other way....douh.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 06, 2019, 06:54:39 pm
Oh....and thanks! Looking at your photo i realised when i replaced.my drop link rubbers i had the bolt through the other way....douh.

Ah, well that should be an easy fix if you have removed the bolt once. I couldn't when I tried it :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on June 07, 2019, 07:47:46 pm
Did you tourqe tthe bolts or just "do them up?"


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 08, 2019, 05:36:59 am
Did you tourqe tthe bolts or just "do them up?"

I only removed the top nut and the rubbers. So far, I haven't torqued it, only did it until I felt the rubbers were well compressed. Now that you remind me, I'll put it on my todo list to torque all nuts and bolts by the spec in the repair manual, thank you for that :)

/Anders


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 09, 2019, 09:32:35 am
The new radiator has arrived, a beautiful peice of aluminium (sorry about the angling of the picture, please blame the photographer (me!)). Also bought new brackets for the coolant pipes. The old rubbers are fine.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on June 09, 2019, 08:37:38 pm
This work you're doing is amazing! I spent all day working on mine and only mamaged to fabricate à piece of interior trim and fit it and re align the rear bumper and fix in place!!!


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 09, 2019, 10:33:46 pm
This work you're doing is amazing! I spent all day working on mine and only mamaged to fabricate à piece of interior trim and fit it and re align the rear bumper and fix in place!!!

Interior trim, that sounds like something that can take time... and adjustments too! My work today was tightening a few nuts and thinking about what new hoses I should order... but the important thing is ... enjoying it!  8)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: lewisman on June 10, 2019, 05:53:19 pm
Radiator looks good. Was it custom made?


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on June 10, 2019, 06:17:05 pm
This work you're doing is amazing! I spent all day working on mine and only mamaged to fabricate à piece of interior trim and fit it and re align the rear bumper and fix in place!!!

Interior trim, that sounds like something that can take time... and adjustments too! My work today was tightening a few nuts and thinking about what new hoses I should order... but the important thing is ... enjoying it!  8)

That is so true no one can imagine the enjoyment I get just pottering about on the car. Dont want to finish it. Already told the misses i am going to get a baggy when this is finisbed. ( IF I  EVER FINISH IT) lol


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 11, 2019, 10:08:27 pm
Radiator looks good. Was it custom made?

It's a beauty, really. It's obviously hand-made, but seems to be a series production item. Simon had it in stock :)
https://www.simon-auto-shop.de/epages/Simon-Auto-Anlasser-Lichtmaschinen.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Simon-Auto-Anlasser-Lichtmaschinen/Products/06002B


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 11, 2019, 10:09:40 pm
This work you're doing is amazing! I spent all day working on mine and only mamaged to fabricate à piece of interior trim and fit it and re align the rear bumper and fix in place!!!

Interior trim, that sounds like something that can take time... and adjustments too! My work today was tightening a few nuts and thinking about what new hoses I should order... but the important thing is ... enjoying it!  8)

That is so true no one can imagine the enjoyment I get just pottering about on the car. Dont want to finish it. Already told the misses i am going to get a baggy when this is finisbed. ( IF I  EVER FINISH IT) lol

 ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 22, 2019, 05:33:51 am
Spent last weekend at Le Mans, hence no updates, but I did receive some hoses for the front end which I trial-fitted yesterday.

As Roy has described in his excellent magazine articles, forum posts, and FAQ on Murena cooling, keeping the Murena cooling system leak free is key to good cooling. No leaks means pressure can build and hence no boiling will take place (not even local boiling) in the head.

But boosting the water flow won't harm anyone and I bought a Davies Craig electric water pump years ago wanting to fit it as a booster pump. (I know of at least one Murena running it as the only water pump on the engine.) Now that I'm working on the front, I decided it was time to complete this lilttle project.

It's a simple installation, in principle: The pump is controlled by an adjustable thermostat in the thermostat housing on the engine. A cable runs to the pump sitting in the front of the car, behind the radiator.

Unlike the mechanical pump on the eninge with its straight impeller blades, these electric pumps are not pressure pumps, but designed to provide flow. They therefore needs to be mounted in the connection to the lower inlet to the radiator. As I'm running it only as a booster pump, I've diverted slightly from Davies Craig's advice and fitted the pump on a 90 degree bend about halfway upwards from the lower inlet to the radiator. Two 45 degrees bends connected with a joiner connects the pump to the water pipe running from the engine. Apart from this, nothing original is modified.

While this does mean that there will be a bubble of air to push out of the electric pump before water reaches the raditor during filling of the circuit, once the system is bled through the upper vent from the radiator, the pump will be running in water and boost the flow when the thermostat kicks in.

And this way the pump fits niicely under the battery tub, and noone will be hinted of this very un-original modification, except if they get a glimpse of the blue silicone hoses and decide to get under the car to take a closer look :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: sc1962 on June 22, 2019, 03:53:03 pm
that's an excellent mod Anders and its great lookin at how the cars progressing.Do you know the part no.of the pump ??? Im already looking forward to the next instalment  :D :D


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on June 22, 2019, 06:08:02 pm
 Brilliant.  You are obviously much more qualified than myself so excuse my ignorance.  Does.the flow rate of the pump have to match that of the waterpump?  Would it create a problem if it doesnt.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 22, 2019, 11:13:26 pm
that's an excellent mod Anders and its great lookin at how the cars progressing.Do you know the part no.of the pump ??? Im already looking forward to the next instalment  :D :D

Thanks! Two £'s ???

The pump is the EWP80 https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/electric-water-pump-only-80-lmin

Brilliant.  You are obviously much more qualified than myself so excuse my ignorance.  Does.the flow rate of the pump have to match that of the waterpump?  Would it create a problem if it doesnt.

I've spent too much time thinking about this, but now that you ask me and I went back to look at my old notes, I realize I've made a serious mistake! :o

But... Both pumps allows water to flow relatively freely through them, so the flow rate will be dictated by the strongest pump minus the friction in the system. I will have to adjust the pump controlling electric thermo-switch so that the electric pump does not kick in until the engine thermostat is open - otherwise the electric pump will work against it. The electric pump is in the radiator circuit, whereas the original mechanical is on the engine circulating the coolant through the auxillary circuit including the heater matrix. The drawing here , which I made years ago, shows the principle.

The mistake is that I've fitted the pump the wrong way - it's pushing water into the radiator instead of into the engine...  that will be next installment, I guess! :D


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 23, 2019, 02:11:52 pm
I've had to give up - temporarily. I need a straight connector for the EWP80 pump to make it fit, as can be seen in the top picture. The hose on the pipe running from the engine can be pushed further in, so with the straight connector, it will fit well under the tub. These connectors are available as accessories from the Davies Craig webshop in Australia... so I'm going to look around to see if there is one closer to here :)

The pump connections aren't symmetrical so the connections has to be made differently than my incorrect fitment. However, with a straight connector on the pump, I just need two 45 degree pieces, so it will be simpler. For now, I've fitted a straight peice of silicone hose I had.

I've also fitted the brake booster back, and the cover behind it (repainted). The long screws are because I haven't ground and cleaned the area in front of the windscreen so don't want to rivet it on yet.

I'll be in NYC next week (incl weekend), so don't expect any updates until I'm back and has recovered from the jetlag.



Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on June 23, 2019, 06:30:06 pm
Your drawing shows the pump drawing water from the radiator, and flowing to the engine. I would have it the same way so it pulls water through the radiator. Do you mean the pumps were working against each other?
Regardless still think your a genius!
P.S STOP SCRATCHING YOUR NEW PAINTWORK!!!!!
LOL


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on June 24, 2019, 07:17:06 am
Your drawing shows the pump drawing water from the radiator, and flowing to the engine. I would have it the same way so it pulls water through the radiator. Do you mean the pumps were working against each other?
Regardless still think your a genius!
P.S STOP SCRATCHING YOUR NEW PAINTWORK!!!!!
LOL

Exactly they would have worked against each other, it would have been a mess! :o

I didn't feel very bright yesterday trying out different combinations of hoses and pump positons, trying to wrap my head around how it would fit in the strange space between the radiator and the battery tub - it looks so simple when you see the solution, but getting to that point involves trying out different things until it fits. Including taking the tub in and out. SORRY! I SHALL NOT AGAIN SCRATCH MY NEW PAINTWORK !!!

The Zinga is very porous on the surface, but this is because unlike real paint, it works from the underside chemically reacting directly with the metal underneath. So scratches are only cosmetic. C'est génial! :D


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: sc1962 on June 24, 2019, 02:19:19 pm
that's an excellent mod Anders and its great lookin at how the cars progressing.Do you know the part no.of the pump ??? Im already looking forward to the next instalment  :D :D

Thanks! Two £'s ???

The pump is the EWP80 https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/electric-water-pump-only-80-lmin

Brilliant.  You are obviously much more qualified than myself so excuse my ignorance.  Does.the flow rate of the pump have to match that of the waterpump?  Would it create a problem if it doesnt.

I've spent too much time thinking about this, but now that you ask me and I went back to look at my old notes, I realize I've made a serious mistake! :o

But... Both pumps allows water to flow relatively freely through them, so the flow rate will be dictated by the strongest pump minus the friction in the system. I will have to adjust the pump controlling electric thermo-switch so that the electric pump does not kick in until the engine thermostat is open - otherwise the electric pump will work against it. The electric pump is in the radiator circuit, whereas the original mechanical is on the engine circulating the coolant through the auxillary circuit including the heater matrix. The drawing here , which I made years ago, shows the principle.

The mistake is that I've fitted the pump the wrong way - it's pushing water into the radiator instead of into the engine...  that will be next installment, I guess! :D
haha sorry Anders I dont know how the hell the £ coins ended up on there.i was asking my wife to show me how to post pics on the site and was reading your post when she showed me lol


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 07, 2019, 01:02:40 pm
Back from NYC, almost recovered from jetlag and lack of sleep (busy, but very good trip!), I've now finally cleaned this iiriplaceable and valuable glass fibre panel, the one that carries the prep-142 sticker :)

Still some work to be done derusting various brackets and cleaning and painting the headlight lifting bar and refitting it, but it feels good getting back to work :)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: roy4matra on July 07, 2019, 01:49:11 pm
Your drawing shows the pump drawing water from the radiator, and flowing to the engine. I would have it the same way so it pulls water through the radiator. Do you mean the pumps were working against each other?

Exactly they would have worked against each other, it would have been a mess! :o


Hello Anders,

I was talking to a company a while back, that specialises in electric water pumps on cars, and asked about how the system copes with the thermostat when not open or 'fighting' against the standard water pump, and this was their answer:

Your remove the thermostat and can throw it away!  You also remove the impeller from the original water pump because it is no longer required.*  Their system admittedly has their own electric water pump controller and coolant temperature sensor, but it works like this - since the coolant is no longer made to flow by the standard water pump that acts like the thermostat for fast warm up, and their water pump runs for a few seconds every say 30 seconds just to move the coolant slightly.  It monitors the coolant temperature as it is increasing and the pump run time increases whilst the time between runs decreases until the engine is fully up to temperature.

Now if the car is standing still or going very slowly, the pump will run sufficiently to keep the engine at the correct temperature, but once on the move and the air flow through the radiator is adequate the pump operation will drop to a level that is enough to circulate the coolant without over cooling it, yet irrespective of engine revs.

As you know, a normal water pump rotates relative to engine speed so it is turning slowly at idle just when you need it to be higher if standing in traffic, yet it will be turning faster than required at higher revs on the open road, when that level of circulation is not required, which is when the thermostat closes down to restrict the flow if necessary.  So an electric pump is better as it can deliver more when required at low engine revs and less when not required at high revs.  The reduction of the water pump load at speed should also release a little more power! :)

*One thing I said earlier is not true though.  If you remove the impeller from our water pump as they state, then there is nothing pressing against the original seal to keep it in place and prevent a coolant leak.  Also with no real coolant circulation in the engine whilst cold, the internal heater would be slow to provide any heat.  This latter problem is one addressed to some extent by the electric water pump running intermittently during the warm up phase.  If it is still insufficient, then they do a small additional pump for just the heater.  However, with regard to the impeller, if you use one of the new water pump kits that Simon Auto can supply, it should be possible to remove it, because the impeller is no longer needed to press against the seal.  His seal kits contain a fixed carbon seal but have a rotating ceramic seal that rubs against it. (that ceramic seal is a tight fit on the shaft, which allows the standard impeller to be removed and left out)  The ceramic/carbon seal is better anyway so it is a win/win situation.

As I have a couple of those pumps with the incorrect curved vane impellers which are useless, I was going to try one of these electric water pump kits on an engine to see just how they would work.  I once looked at the possibility of fitting a VW VR6 engine in the Murena and found that that engine has an electric coolant pump, which is what got me started at looking at this method of cooling!

Roy


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 10, 2019, 07:25:12 am
Thanks a lot, Roy for your lengthy answer :)

I was talking to a company a while back, that specialises in electric water pumps on cars, and asked about how the system copes with the thermostat when not open or 'fighting' against the standard water pump, and this was their answer:

The answer sounds like what I've read Davies Craig say back when I read about their pumps: Remove the thermostat and mechanical pump and install the electric pump in the lower radiator hose, plus an additional much smaller pump to drive the heater matrix, and a digital controller to ensure the speed of the large water pump is regulated to keep the engine temperature constant. Hans Mølbjerg has done that on his 505 turbo converted Murena, and it works well, he says. I haven't seen his installation, but we talked about it on the way to Le Mans this year, and his car is running well and stable. I think he has fitted a larger pump than the one I'm working with, though, but not sure. Davies Craig has different models of different size.

So why do I still want to keep the thermostat and old mechanical water pump in the system?

Well, this is because I'm a careful person, I think. I too found myself fascinated with the idea of the electric water pump, but I didn't want to change the system fundamentally. Keeping the mechanical pump in the system ensures nothing goes fundamentally wrong, and also removes the need for the supplementary pump for the heater matrix. I'm trying an iterative approach where the electric pump will initially be running only as a booster pump (and right now, since I'm missing a straight connector to it, it's not going in the car). Later, I may go all electric, if it works. Or go back to the mechanical system if it doesn't improve anything.

Using the pump as a booster is not against the advice from Davies Craig. They do support fitting the pump as a booster pump using a mechanical thermostat adjusted to only enable the pump when the temperature advances above the thermostat opening temperature. See the picture below, which was taken already in 2008 - yes, I've been working on this for more than 10 years now :)

I'll try to get Hans to post some pictures of his installation and notes about his experiences. What you and I have researched and he has implemented, *is* interesting in several ways!

Best,
Anders


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 13, 2019, 08:55:02 am
Roy, almost immediately after having posted my reply to you, I started doubting my doubt... why not just replace the mechanical pump now? What am I afraid of?

As you point out, it will be the better solution than just boosting, for all the reasons you say, like being able to remove the thermostat, and simplifying things = less possibility for error.

The only thing I need is the straight connector, the supplementary pump for the heater matrix, and figure out a way to control that. Jesper might be able to help me close off an old defective pump (I think I have one somewhere, and he has one).Food for thought there... I appreciate the inspiration! :)

Lennart and Jesper popped by yesterday, by the way :)





Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 15, 2019, 08:25:14 am
Headlight lifting mechanism is now refitted with new silicone vacuum hoses and the repaired vacuum actuator. Coolant hoses are checked and tightened (still without electric pump). Tub and fenders are back in place (not yet riveted, only held together using some 5 mm bolts). Wiring is refitted, and battery...

Next step is to push the car out of the garage, refill cooling system, and start her up, checking that everything is water and air proof, and that the vacuum actuator works as it should after my repair.

Also, I'll paint and fit the new pieces of protective metal around the radiator after that then, and fit the cable for the headlight emergency lift, tacho cable and new protective grommets, heater fan, and a few other things. After that I will be putting her back into the garage, now with the rear facing out, and start working on the rear end of the chassis again. Eventually that involves taking the engine out to do a small job on it, including converting it to an electric water pump (I think).

Oh yes, if you wonder why the chassis looks stained it's because of the linseed oil spray I'm using for corrosion protection inside the beams. It "runs" everywhere, including out of all holes (I find that fascinating).

/Anders


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 16, 2019, 03:19:47 pm
Headlight lifting mechanism works now (click the image to see the video on Flickr):

(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/48297536067_b8f3ec975e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gzTuP6)

Also, the coolant circuit is replenished with all air removed.

I ran into two minor issues:
  • I had interchanged the vacuum hoses for the actuator, so it lowered the headlights when they were supposed to be lifted and vice versa.
  • There was a small leak by the fan thermostat, and it had to be tightened to seal properly

Apart from that, things worked well :D

There seems to be a minor leak in the vacuum system as it looses vacuum after 30 seconds or so - it used to be able to hold for almost half an hour. Also, I didn't run the engine long enough to see if the the fan would kick in, so I have to double check that, plus connect the override switch properly.

But she is now reversed with the rear facing out. It's time to open a new chapter!  8)

Updated with picture below

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48299190001_1522bfd1df_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gA2Ytc)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on July 16, 2019, 09:19:05 pm
looking great!!!!!


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 17, 2019, 10:07:36 pm
looking great!!!!!

Thanks!


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: roy4matra on July 18, 2019, 07:46:41 pm
Headlight lifting mechanism works now (click the image to see the video on Flickr):
(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/48297536067_b8f3ec975e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gzTuP6)


There seems to be a minor leak in the vacuum system as it looses vacuum after 30 seconds or so - it used to be able to hold for almost half an hour.



Can I correct you here, and for others reading this as well.  That is not a minor leak if it looses vacuum after only approx. 30 seconds; and if it originally only lasted half an hour that is also unacceptable!

I've said this before but I'll say it again now - the vacuum system should hold for several days at least or even for a week!  I know this partly because when I had my Murena new it would do this.  I could go to my car a week after the last time the engine had been run, yet the head lights would still come up if I switched them on.  That is proof that the system is air tight like it should be.

Anything less is allowing unmetered air into the engine and making it run weaker.  Since a weak mixture causes the engine chambers to run hotter, this needs to be stopped to help prevent cracks to the head.

Roy


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 18, 2019, 09:01:34 pm
Headlight lifting mechanism works now (click the image to see the video on Flickr):
(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/48297536067_b8f3ec975e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gzTuP6)


There seems to be a minor leak in the vacuum system as it looses vacuum after 30 seconds or so - it used to be able to hold for almost half an hour.

Can I correct you here, and for others reading this as well.  That is not a minor leak ...

You can indeed, thanks! What I meant, of course, was that it is minor enough for me to want to attend to other things and put the leak on the to-do list, and I frankly could'nt remember how long it lasted when it was air tight.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 27, 2019, 09:56:44 pm
Summer holidays are ending for me. I didn't have too specific plans about what I wanted to complete as I knew that time would be limited - after all, the family must be prioritized when they want to spend time with me :)

But here are some pictures of things I've done since last update:

First, the rear is facing out now:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48299301582_5b0d4ac057_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gA3xD1)

The left side rear trailing arm has failed:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48362764092_85dd8f1e2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gFDNQd)

I managed to break both bolts loose without cutting them:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48362630066_e8517715bc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gFD7Zq)

The exhaust is off (thanks to some very rusty bolts, that took some time!), and I have started cleaning the rear underbody of dust, rust, oil residue, and other unwanted substances to prepare for zinc treatment:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48379808211_517fdc6ae4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gHaask)

The left hand hub nut is off:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48387749717_1f73c69004_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gHRSbR)

And the drive shaft is loose, so I'm ready to remove the trailing arm now to get access to the chassis where it is suspended which must be cleaned and zinc treated:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48389815662_9900951748_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ3sjA)

Using a cutting wire for windscreens, I'm beginning the process of removing the right rear wing. The left will be more difficult as it is still the original glue:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48389677971_7f1456102d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJ2KoB)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on July 28, 2019, 10:34:07 am
That is a big job. Probarbly the hardest thing I had to do. Took me 3 days to get each one off. They are so easily damaged. I found the hardest part was around the bottom of the window because of the metal plate that sits there. Good luck!


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 28, 2019, 07:26:08 pm
That is a big job. Probarbly the hardest thing I had to do. Took me 3 days to get each one off. They are so easily damaged. I found the hardest part was around the bottom of the window because of the metal plate that sits there. Good luck!

Thank you! I'll be careful and allocate the time it takes. The right hand side is incorrectly fitted after a damage so seems easy, but that side of the car is up against the wall of the garage now so I'm going to attend to the left side first, which seems very tight.

I got the left trailing arm off today, however:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48396716292_75d7234c97_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJDPCY)

There is some corrosion in the chassis behind it so I will start brush cleaning that first, then zinc painting.

Also, Politecnic emailed back to me today. They expect to be able to supply new trailing arms end of September. I can always refit the old ole should I need to move the car in the garage.



Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on July 28, 2019, 07:58:44 pm
 Very interstinging ref Politecnic. . Am still.waiting for.my seat covers and they havnt replied to my emails.The swing arm i got from them was very slightly out of line which made it awkward to fit Roy took some photos at the time and I know he wrote to them. I notice you have original cv boots but they still look good. I had to go down the aftermarket type.  You really are making good progress. its taken me years.
Did you have to cut off the swing arm bolts? Also I noticed when you removed the hub bolt you left the borbets ca on! did the socket fit through the centre?


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on July 28, 2019, 08:49:58 pm
Very interstinging ref Politecnic. . Am still.waiting for.my seat covers and they havnt replied to my emails.The swing arm i got from them was very slightly out of line which made it awkward to fit Roy took some photos at the time and I know he wrote to them. I notice you have original cv boots but they still look good. I had to go down the aftermarket type.  You really are making good progress. its taken me years.
Did you have to cut off the swing arm bolts? Also I noticed when you removed the hub bolt you left the borbets ca on! did the socket fit through the centre?

Thank you... I'm not doing a through job like you and taking a lot of breaks to think and do other things...

Yes, the socket fits through the centre. I had to put the wheels back on to get it off.

Don't forget, in french "A demain" doesn't mean tomorrow ;D

The wheel bearing is gone too (not that it matters, just surprised I didn't notice before):

(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/48397705136_f0482974d4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gJJTA1)
(Click the video to play)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: roy4matra on August 01, 2019, 07:53:35 pm
Very interesting ref Politecnic.  Am still waiting for my seat covers and they haven't replied to my emails. The swing arm I got from them was very slightly out of line which made it awkward to fit Roy took some photos at the time and I know he wrote to them.

Please let me correct you there, as that is not right, Terry.

Your semi-trailing arm came from Simon Auto in Germany, and I did say at the time that the bracket may be out of correct alignment as I have noted previous ones from both them and Carjoy were incorrect.

The semi-trailing arms sold by Politecnic in France are more expensive but better made both from the point of view of material used and more importantly, they are correct with regard to the design, so all the angles including the bracket for the shock absorber attachments are correct.

Roy


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on August 01, 2019, 09:12:26 pm
Sorry both. I stand  corrected.  Genuine mistake and I  appologise.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 06, 2019, 09:27:01 pm
Terry, did you remove the windows before removing the rear wings? I'm asking because the workshop manual says they should be removed to avoid breaking them, but it seems to me there's just as much chance of breaking them by removing them?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48474616242_c331baf3c8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gRx5zy)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on August 07, 2019, 08:45:02 am
Morning Anders,
Yes I did, However the adhesive on mine was very weak, I could just push mine and they would move slightly, some of the adhesive had also "over spilled" onto the chassis. They were easy to remove , I just ran a Stanley knife between the glass and frame from the inside, the adhesive seemed to be a different type from that securing the wings on. It also made getting a cutting wire between that particular section of the wing so much easier as their is adhesive under the flat piece under the window and above the metal guard that prevents mud and dirt from being thrown and also around the window frame itself.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on August 07, 2019, 09:06:03 am
In this photo of Donna you can see that the window was bonded to the wing and then the wing bonded to the chassis, It also might give an indication of where all the adhesive was. The most difficult part was around the fuel filler as I couldn't get a wire in there.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 07, 2019, 04:19:12 pm
Thank you, Terry! That's very helpful. I'll give it a go!


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 07, 2019, 05:27:33 pm
Half way through!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48481024492_d18026c7c1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gS6VwC)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48481024472_70a7a866cd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gS6Vwh)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48481024582_8f8b3657d5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gS6Vyb)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: murramor on August 08, 2019, 05:50:40 am
Anders.  I took out my windows but the glue was very hard and dry and it took me  \about 8 hours of hard labour!  One thing to beware of is that the vinyl trim in the engine compartment is wrapped around the ledge under the glass.  With all my struggles, I managed to destroy parts of the vinyl trim which are now too short to wrap around the ledge and I am going to have an expensive trim job to look forward to!  You may be lucky and you might have softer glue which comes away more easily.

regards
Ron


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 08, 2019, 04:39:05 pm
Anders.  I took out my windows but the glue was very hard and dry and it took me  \about 8 hours of hard labour!  One thing to beware of is that the vinyl trim in the engine compartment is wrapped around the ledge under the glass.  With all my struggles, I managed to destroy parts of the vinyl trim which are now too short to wrap around the ledge and I am going to have an expensive trim job to look forward to!  You may be lucky and you might have softer glue which comes away more easily.

Thanks a lot for the warning, Ron. I've spent roughly two hours so far on one, and I still have the forward edge to take care of. It seems more difficult than the other three edges. I think alos that's where the vinyl trim could be wrapped under the window, so I don't think/hope I've damaged the vinyl. Thanks again!

/Anders

UPDATE: The vinyl is along the top. It seems ok, but is hanging loose, so may have some damage. I hope it's not too bad. I'll see when the rest of the window is out.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on August 08, 2019, 08:02:18 pm
Looking good. Will be worth it. It is also very easy to do a.re trim with the wings and windowws out of the way .also wih the trim lifted you can check the coil spring mounts.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 09, 2019, 09:23:16 pm
Looking good. Will be worth it. It is also very easy to do a.re trim with the wings and windowws out of the way .also wih the trim lifted you can check the coil spring mounts.

The window is out and everything looks fine :)  I'm also almost halfway down loosening the wing from the chassis... the glue is VERY hard!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48497564501_ea639cc51c_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gTyGic)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on August 10, 2019, 02:49:35 pm
Fantastic work!!! Think you may find that if their was a slight gap after fixing the wings on Matra used what appeared to be fibre glass resin to fill the gaps. The only place this appeared to be present on mine was at the very back where it curves towards the light fitting. Look after that glass, I did have two spares but someone needed them.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 10, 2019, 06:05:42 pm
Fantastic work!!! Think you may find that if their was a slight gap after fixing the wings on Matra used what appeared to be fibre glass resin to fill the gaps. The only place this appeared to be present on mine was at the very back where it curves towards the light fitting. Look after that glass, I did have two spares but someone needed them.

Thanks!! The glass is sitting calmly in the passenger seat inside the car :)

Thanks for the info about the resin. The glue did not seem flexible at all. I managed to break it using different tools without damaging the wing too much. The cutting wire didn't work well, the glue was just not flexible and thick enough. The wire was cutting into the glass fibre. I found the best tools was a stanley knife to open up where the glue was sitting, and a scraper with a wooden handle which I could pad on with a hammer to cut through the glue.

As can be seen, the glass fibre broke a bit, but it's not as bad as it looks, and the wing needed repair anyway from a dent on the wheel arch.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48503784451_bb8e5496da_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gU7zgH)
DSC_0136 (https://flic.kr/p/2gU7zgH)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48503786491_a0b5fdeed5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gU7zST)
DSCPDC_0002_BURST20190810170808243 (https://flic.kr/p/2gU7zST)

There's a drain hole under the metal strip where water can escape from the engine room, but moisture tends to collect. As can be seen here, the chassis is not looking too good there.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48503784676_83348debd1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gU7zkA)
DSC_0138 (https://flic.kr/p/2gU7zkA)


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on August 10, 2019, 07:38:47 pm
I dug out my left hand spare wing to see it they placed the adhesive in the same place. This is the original from EOW that had damage around the wheel arch. It suddenly dawned on me that I didn't warn you of the possibility of the extra rivets hidden under the glass at the bottom (second photo). Fortunately you didn't have them! EOW had them but Donna didn't!!!!! so they must have been present on the very early cars. You can also see the different types of adhesive they used. One was like a very hard setting resin the other like putty.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 11, 2019, 07:02:50 am
I dug out my left hand spare wing to see it they placed the adhesive in the same place. This is the original from EOW that had damage around the wheel arch. It suddenly dawned on me that I didn't warn you of the possibility of the extra rivets hidden under the glass at the bottom (second photo). Fortunately you didn't have them! EOW had them but Donna didn't!!!!! so they must have been present on the very early cars. You can also see the different types of adhesive they used. One was like a very hard setting resin the other like putty.

The rivets are interesting as the workshop manual does not mention them either. It looks like there's another small difference between the two wings as your earlier one has an indent in front of the window. I noticed a bulge in the chassis which seems to be useful for aligning the window correctly, but the bulge is further forward than the indent, isn't it?

It's clear that the wings are held onto the chassis by the rivets at the front (inside door frame) and back (under rear bumper), and bonded with the strong resin like glue along the top and rear edges. And that's all. The putty doesn't really bond the wing to the chassis, it's probably just there to absorb vibrations.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: Anders Dinsen on August 11, 2019, 08:08:38 pm
Not much progress today, partly because Frederik Moes (http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=190) popped by and we talked instead of working :)

But I did some cleaning and rivet removal, and ... this:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48511876231_1f3f145599_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gUQ3Fa)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48511878376_7397c59f2b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2gUQ4j9)

It turned out the chassis directly under the metal strip was severely corroded so I cut out the bad parts with the angle grinder. It dug through like it was butter... I still need to remove some more metal, but this is the greater part. There's a weld job coming up.

Fortunately it doesn't look too difficult to fix as it only requires a straight, rectangular peice of steel - and the rest is good.

This is where moisture escapes the engine room in front of the fuel tank, apparantly a very wet spot.


Title: Re: Getting ready for the road again
Post by: TELBOY on August 11, 2019, 10:00:52 pm
Not too bad. I see your swing arm mounts are nice and solid