Print Page - Time to do some repairs

Hi

Almost 14 year ago I bought my Bagheera, back then it was in very bad shape, and it was my first restoration project (and on a study-budget).

I have over the year made a lot of work on the car, but I have never had the engine out, always working my way around it. The gearbox has always been bad, and it has lately been bothering me. So recently I bought another gearbox (in unknown condition), I had it opened, and the gears and synchromesh rings was clearly in better shape than on my old gearbox. I switched the gearbox and tried it out; I was very different than the old one, but unfortunately it was "singing" in 4. gear; bad bearing.
I also found out that my left rear wheel bearing was going bad, while changing gearbox..

Therefore I desided to pull the car of the road, and get all of those worn out parts changes, and do some "2.0 restoration".

My 2.0 restoration to do list is getting longer every time I look at the car:

- New rear wheel bearings and seal kits (both sides)
- New seals on the differential
- Rebuild all brake calibers
- "New" clutch (I have a spare engine with what seems to be a almost new clutch)
- New clutch bearing
- Make new gas tank straps (like the originals)
- Sand down the engine bay, prime it and coat it
- Repair bad welds at the rear half of the car (the front must wait until restoration 3.0) there is a lot of old very badly made sheet metal work/velds on the car :'(
- Get all the loose metal parts sand blasted and powder coated
- Rebuild a gearbox; I have bought a set of new synchromesh-rings, and the gear from the newly bought gearbox should do the job.
- Get the gearbox and differential cleaned, primed and coated (or cleaned and treated with a thin coat of Alodine)
- Replace the center engine mount
- Clean the engine block and give it a new coat
- Change the oil pan seal
- Clean and paint the starter motor

I startet out the work this weekend, and got the engine out (and the garage floor cleaned after some coolant spill) :-)

I have attached some pictures from back when I was younger, more optimistic, and the car had just been brought home ;D

- Frederik

Hi Anders

Please stop by some day :)

My next step is removing the gas tank, then the engine compartment should be ready for inspection.

If I am lucky there won’t be any welding/sheet metal work needed in the engine compartment, and i will then have to remove rust and loose paint; do I need to remove all the old paint?? It seems that a former owner have been using a bad quality paint, which is flaking off, so that might answer my question, but on the other hand, if some of the original paint is having a good bond to the chassis, then I don’t suppose that I need to spend a lot of time removing it?

I am planning to coat the engine compartment with 2-3 layers of 2-component epoxy primer, which I have always had very good experience with (the closes thing to the holy grail of primers); it bonds to metal like nothing else I have tried, it's strong, durable, does not crack or flake, and the one I am using is fluid/chemical resistant ;D

My question is, what top coat should I use?
The top-coat is going to be black, and not treated with any underbody sealants; I only drive it in sunny weather :D

I was looking at Carbuilder.com, and they have a product called POR 15 (Paint On Rust).. but after reading and watching some reviews online, it does not seems to be the wonder paint, which the manufacturer advertise it to be. Apparently it becomes very hard, too hard, and when used on sheet metal on cars, it starts to crack and tear of, because of movement and vibration. It might be good on old american frame chassis... But I have not tried it myself.

I have in the past used Hammerite 1-component top coat, this one is easy to use, specially the one with hammer-"effect/look" the smooth one is a bit harder to get a good looking result with. But now after some years I see the result of using Hammerite as top coat; It is not very chemical resistant, the places where oil or bearing grease have been in contact with Hammerite coated surfaces, the paint seems to go soft :-\ And Hammerite in general does not have a very good bond to epoxy primed surfaces. And it Hammerite easily chips of if struck lightly doing any work on the car. Well, that’s is my experience.

I would like a top coat I can brush on, because it is just much easier of me to handle in my garage ( I am also applying the primer with a brush, which takes.. time).

Maybe it would be the right thing to use an 2-component acrylic auto-body coat, but I am not sure I can get a hold of that, they all seem to be water based these days, and in need of heat to harden, or am I wrong? And I an not sure that I can use a brush with that kind of paint..

So, does any of you have any good experiences with a specific product I can use as top-coat, any suggestions?

Best regards Frederik

Hi Anders

Thank you, please ask you neighbor about the curing process when you run into him ;D

I don't have high expectation to the finish of the surface in the engine compartment, I really just want it to be black, and not sticky 8)

Yesterday I removed the rear wheel bearings from the trailing arms. I heated the area around the bearings with a small blow torch, not that much actually, probably just up to 70-80 degrees celsius. And then they where fairly easy to push out.

I have also received new parts from France:

- New rear wheel bearings with inner and outer seals
- Seals for the differential
- Other gaskets
- Hub nuts
- Center engine mount
- Brake caliber repair kits (alle four)
- New drivers side armrest

Today I am going to the DIY handyman shop Biltema, to buy all of there cleaning/sanding discs and brushes :D

While removing some loose paint, I saw a little black spot on the "main rear bridge" (which is being used as a vacuum tank), the spot seems to be a tiny rust hole, I have marked with red on the picture, but it is hard to see. But this explains why it does not keep its vacuum for very long after shutting the engine off.

I also found several tears in the metal sheets making the engine compartment air ducts under the boot, they don't seem that rusty, so I am guessing its because of vibrations ???

Best regards Frederik

I have also been removing the gas tank, and taking some "before" pictures

I also found a nasty scratch in the gas-tank towards the engine :'( I am not sure what to about that. The rest of the tank is in incredible good condition after 45 year, it does not feel brittle, they really did know how to make gas-tanks out af good plastic!

At some point someone in the past had a hard time fitting the trailing arms, and then they choose to drill some new bolt holes, for then to realize that the new hole was not the way to go.. after that they spot welded some washers onto the original holes, so that the new holes were blocked :'( = more work for me..

I have also been thinking about the weird welding repair on the air duct which is not that rusty in other places.The position of the repair is at the exhaust manifold, so I am guessing that the heat from the manifold have destroyed the paint on the air duct and it rusted.. As you can see the repair has also rusted.

Yesterday I received a new 190 mm clutch and it seems the be the right one ;D

Now I am thinking that I probably should change the oil seals on the crank shaft now when I got the engine out and most of it taken apart anyway.. So I got to order those.

Back when I bought the car I did a compression test on the cylinders, and back then I found that one of the cylinders did not reach the same pressure as the other three, which was very close to each other. Then I had the cylinder head refurbished. But I do not recall if I did the test again afterwards ??? So before I do to much work on it I will do a new compression test. I am thinking that if I have a bad/worn down piston/piston rings, then I will have to deal with it, and get the engine overhauled. As a second option, I have found a couple of 6J-engines at a scrap yard (the 1592 ccm, from a Talbot). It seems to be the same engine block with a bigger cylinder bore. I guess that it is the same engine block as on a Murena 1,6, but probably a different camshaft and intake side.

Today I got started on refurbishing the rear brake calipers.

The two main parts were corroded together, and the thickness of the corrosion itself were putting a lot of pressure on the cylinder.

I made a metal wedge to try to relieve some of the pressure between the parts; that combined with heat from a small blow torch worked very well. Note that there are a small spring loaded pin which needs to be pushed in while the two parts are slided apart (hammered) ;D.

On one of my calipers there seems to be one of there spring loaded pin on each side, and om the other there are only one. But on the one with two, it looks like a piece of the aluminium around one of the pins a damaged, but it is hard to see with all the paint an dirt on top.

I have two spare calipers, and the piston in one of those a completely stuck, after todays work i guess that the piston in my spare caliper is stuck due to the pressure from the buildup of corrosion, which might push the cylinder out of shape and locking the pisten.

I am looking forward to having to brake calipers in good condition, and with a fresh coat of paint. It looks like one of them has been gold-colored in the past.

I was actually a bit surprised after cleaning the inside of the caliper and fitting the piston with the new seal, how well the piston moved afterwards, compared to before I took the caliper apart and cleaned the cylinder. I am looking very much forward to trying out the brakes after I have been refurbishing all four brake calipers, and to feel if it has made a difference to the overall brake performance ;D ;D

I wish you all a happy Matra Simca Talbot Christmas :D

Hi

No, I had not seen Roy's guide; but wow that is great! I struggled the most figuring out that the two main pieces was locked with a spring loaded pin; at first I through it was a "pipe-pin", which would be very tough to get out/drill out. But my dad was a car mechanic in the 70´s, and he gave me the clue, that it might was a spring loaded pin.

From reading Roy´s guide, I have noticed that there should be an anti-rattle spring, which I do not have; and I have been having brake pad rattle (which might was partly because of a bad rear wheel bearing..), but that spring would definitely help!

The wedge I made was not very good, it only worked two times, then I was to worn to be used for a third time, and I had to reshape it.. It was quickly made with an angle grinder.

The second brake caliper was not in as good shape as the first one, and I had to find one of my spare ones, and give it the same treatment, but now I have two, which is ready to get the old paint and rust removed, before primer, a nice red top coat, and the final assembly.

Today I have been working on the engine. And I have found what seems to be a production error/production sloppiness. The aluminium piece holding the oil seal behind the flywheel was not aligned with the crankshaft, it was forced in place, and was app. 1,5 mm out of alignment, which meant that the oil seal was quite a lot more compressed at the bottom, than on the top (ses the second picture). I have been comparing with the assembly on a spare engine I have, and on that one it was a much better fit. It seems that the aluminum piece can not be placed correctly at the moment, I think I have to carefully remove some material from the bottom of the aluminium piece, so that it will align better with the crankshaft, the bolt holes in the panel are much larger than the bolts, so I will not have any problems with adjusting the alignment, after a litter reshaping. It is also evident that the aluminium piece have been forced in place, one of the guides that should keep the piece aligned with the crankshaft is a bit damaged, and inside the hole in the aluminium piece, material has been scraped into a collar.

I have ordered a complete gasket and oil seal set for the crank case, and I am going to replace all of those gaskets and oil seals.

I have run in to something that is troubling me ??? The timing chain seem a little loose, but I have no idea if it is all right, or if it is to loose ???
The timing chain is less loose on my spare engine, but that engine has not been running for 20 years, and old hardened oil in the chain might be fooling me, to think that the chain on my other engine is to worn; so I have called in my dad to check it out ;D

I did the compression test on the cylinders, and the result was good, but I am still not sure about the overall condition of the engine. And if the timing chain is worn, is the camshaft and the rest of the engine then also worn ??? I do not want to do all this work, to find out in a couple of years that the engine should have been overhauled; but on the other hand, if it does not need to be overhauled, then there is no reason to do it, but I do not know how to make that call ???

So for now I will focus on getting the chassis and engine compartment ready, until I have figured out what needs to be done with the engine.

Hi Frederik, you're a lucky man having your dad around to give you some advice from the period :D
Well done renovating that caliper without the guide!

it's interesting that the engine has been running for all those years with the aluminum cover wrongly attached :) Someone in a factory in France gave it a good beating instead of fitting it carefully.... and it worked. Well, why not? :o

Someone else will have to give you advice on the tension of the timing chain. I would not worry too much if the chain is in good shape. These chains to tend to extend over time but since it's short, I wouldn't be too worried. I don't know if these cams can be ground to better specs, but I do know that tuning cams are available, which would suit the car, I guess, so why not take the old one out and inspect it? And if new chains can be found, then you might want to replace that? Overall, though, it sounds like you have a healthy engine there :) I'm looking forward to hearing what your dad's verdict will be!

Happy new year!

/Anders

Hi Anders

My originally through was to keep the engine as it was, and "only" change clutch and repair the gearbox, and do what was necessary; but things seems to change as i go ;) And the to do list is getting longer..

Changing the camshaft to a more sporty one does sound a bit intriguing ;D And I guess it can be done without stripping the crank case completely, even though there is not much left on it as it is..

I can see that Politecnic has a custom crankshaft: Maxi Gr.2" raised 7.60 mm (260 ° ad. X 296 ° Ech.) And it would se me back app. 600 euro (with new pushers and shipping). I know very little about camshafts, but i guess that the one from Politecnic is more aggressiv that a standard, and have a higher rais. But I do not know how to tell if it is a good "allround" sporty cam, or a race cam ??? I would like one that allows a little more kick, but without being to extreme.

Do you, Anders, or any of you know any other (that Politecnic) who deals with sporty Bagheera camshafts? Or is Politecnic just the right place for such a camshaft?

Best regrads Frederik And happy new year!

Hi Frederik,

I wouldn't expect you to go wrong with Politecnic. They have experience.

Remember that you'd need to rejet your carburettors, and preferably set it up on a rolling road, so consider that too when you think about cost. A new/better exhaust manifold will probably be needed too.

A number of parameters define the performance of a cam, but it always depends on the engine: Cam development is to my knowledge as much an art as a science. However, the basic parameters are the ability to increase the amount of air being drawn into the cylinder and the ease with which it is blown out.

That depends on lift and period, of course, but there's more: E.g. the exact timing, the envelope (how quickly the valve is opened and closed), the overlap during which both the inlet and exhaust valves are open, and the exhaust and inlet manifolds. All these parameters determine more of the dynamics of the cam, i.e. how the engine performs at midrange to high RPM.

For example, at high air velocity, the vacuum developing on the back side of the exhaust "bubble" as it moves down the exhaust manifold can be used to initiate the draw of air in through the inlet valves early. That's why fast cams have overlap where both valves are open at the same time.

Remember that air has a mass, so getting it moving and accelerating it is important. Also, once the air through the inlet has accelerated, it will generally keep moving through the valve even as it closes, so at mid range to high RPM, the air will continue to fill the cylinder even as the piston starts the compression cycle, so you want the cam to stay open longer on a fast cam.

Now, I can't claim to be an expert. This is just to explain some of the dynamics that experts are working with when they're designing cams.

If you're interested, I suggest you contact Politecnic and inquire them about what kind of performance you will be looking at for the Gr.2 cam and what other changes will be needed. I would expect as a minimum the exhaust manifold should be changed from the standard cast iron manifold to a tubular design and the carbs should be rejetted. The flywheel should probably also be lightened.

/Anders

Hi Anders

Thank you very much for you reply! :) I really appreciate it. It has helped me to see things in the right light, and to make my decisions on what to do, and how far to go with my repairs ;D

It would be a lot of fun to get the car on a rolling road after doing all the work you mention, but I would like to have the car back on the road this spring, so I am going to keep it all original, and keep the crank case with cylinder head and cam as it is; I might take off the timing chain, and do some measuring, to see how worn it is.

I was expecting most of the work you mention, if I choose to change the camshaft, but it is good to see a more complete picture of the work that would be needed in writing. I am thinking (dreaming) of having an engine tune-up project alongside a running car. So i might bye an 80´s 1600 cc Talbot engine (Murena crankcase), and rebuild it with a little more kick, to fit my Bagheera; and with a more modern style gearbox. I have found an article about the gearbox Simca used in the 70´s for Bagheeras and other models, and it states that the Simca gearbox were build on a 60´s Porsche design and patent (with compression-synchromesh rings). After reading this article I found a very nice rebuild-guide for a similar Porsche gearbox, which also explains wear and tear on these types of gearboxes: http://porsche.wikidot.com/how-to:porsche-915-transmission-repair-tutorial-part-ii

On Saturday I bought a Bagheera gastank without any damages, and a set of gastank straps. I have been removing a Kg of old underbody coating from tank, and it is looking better and better. I was quite disappointed with the tank straps; they should be original (I can see that one out of four parts is home made), but the original pieces has been welded on to the brackets in the engine compartment (from the factory), and not boltet on as I through when looking at the brackets on my car. Because of this i have chosen only to reuse a few parts for the straps, and make new ones, that kan be boltet on the the existing brackets.

The gastank came from a car that had been stranded for 10-20 year in a field, and it contained app. a liter of.. water! and not a hint of gas. So all metal parts in the tank (suction pipe and level transmitter) had turned into rust residues.

Best regards Frederik

I have been talking to a local metal surface treatment company. I heard about the company from a fellow Matra owner some year ago. He had a good experience with having door brackets and other steel parts for he's Murena given a new surface treatment at this place.

I got the idea that it would be much more satisfying to have all the bolts for the gearbox, differential and engine, cleaned and given a new anti corrosion surface, now when I got it all taken apart anyway ;D

Then I thought maybe they can also do surface treatments of aluminium. They told me that they could do surface treatments of aluminium, but there can not be any steel bushings or any steel parts left on the aluminium parts, because the treatment of aluminium will damage the steel. I was hoping to get the complete gearbox and differential housing treated, but I am not able to get all the small steel bushings out of the lid for the gearbox gear selection mechanism (without damaging them), but I think I can have all the other parts treated. I will drop by company next week with the parts ;D

I have also startet to remove the old paint from the crank case. I startet out with a paint removing gel (Nitro Mors), it does not work that great on a rough surface like cast iron.. but it does make the paint soft like rubber, and then it is rather easy to remove the paint with a wire disc brush.

- Frederik

Today I had an hour to kill, and I got one side of the crank case primed; it feels good to do some work that is going to remain unlike most of the work I have done so far; disassembly, sanding and cleaning.

Yesterday I started to remove rust ans loose paint on the frame and in the engine compartment. I hav not got very far with it yet, but the dust mask says otherwise :o I think I will change it out with a full face gas mask the next time.

I have also ordered a set of welsh/core plugs. The first time I started up the engine 10 year ago one of the plugs was rusted, and cooling water was suddenly everywhere, back then I only changed the one plug because it was difficult to get the new plug in place while the engine was in the car.

- Frederik

Hi

The colour.. It will be a surprise ;D At first I was going with a conservative colour choice, but them I thought.. No.. be bold! ;D You will have to be under the car to appreciate it anyway :D

Yesterday I delivered all the bolts and nuts + some steel brackets, and the gearbox and differential housings for surface treatment at a place called Værløse Galvaniske (In Denmark), they will do a Plasma electrolytic oxidation surface treatment of my aluminium parts, and some sort og dual layer black electrolytic zink treatment of the steel bolts and brackets, which should be four times as strong than the white electrolytic zink treatment. I am very excited to see the result, I am not completely sure what to expect, they said the result (and colour) on the aluminium would depend on the quality of the aluminium, but I should expect it to be darker in colour; they could also do more funky colors like screaming red or blue, but I told them to do it colorless.
I have also delivered all of my larger steel parts for sandblasting and black powder coating.

- Frederik

Thank you, Anders!

I have received some new parts, a crank case gasket and oil seal set, and a lot of smaller brackets and p-clips, but no parts back from surface treatment or powder coating, and no welsh plugs yet..

At some point I will have to continue the work on the chassis, it is just no the most fun part of the work I will have to do.

Yesterday I stopped by the local metal salvage yard, and found a lovely sheet of stainless steel, from which I cut out some pieces to rebuild the tank straps which I recently bought. A metal worker seeing me weld stainless steel and mild steel together would probably laugh or cry, but I do not have access to a TIG welder, and I am sure they will last longer than the originals anyway.

- Frederik

This weekend I got to do some work on the chassis.

I am looking very much forward to being done with stripping the loose paint and rust, the dust is everywhere, my garage will need a thorough cleaning afterwards, so I better get it over with..

I have chosen to close the rust hole in the engine bay air duct with a rigid aluminum sheet, which I hope will work as a heat shield. I can see on the old piece I cut out, that this place has been repaired at least three times before. The heat from the exhaust manifold seems to be the sinner.

When I bought the car there were no good exhaust manifold with it; I bought a new one from Simon-auto made from tubes, but of cause it startet to rust almost immediately, there are probably not many paint types that can handle the heat and the tension from being heated and cooled time and time again; but I have bought some gray 1-component Por-15 manifold paint. I am curious to see how long this will last?

- Frederik

Hi Anders

The original Bagheera exhaust manifold is a standard Simca cast iron. Actually I did get one with the car, but it was cracked. I asked around, but nobody would weld it, they told me that a weld on cast iron would not last. Back then I did not know much about the cars heritage, so I could not find a used manifold at any scrap yards; had I known that it was the same used on other Simcas and Talbots I probably would have found one. So I ended up buying a new production manifold from Simon-auto.

The manifold paint will have to cure for 24 hours at 20 degree Celsius, and then the manifold will have to be heated up to 150-200 degree Celsius for 2 hours to fully cure, so it is going in the oven ;D

I have also heard that mixing mild steel/aluminum or mild steel/Stainless steel is a bad idea due to galvanic corrosion, but I will be testing it out ;) The best solution would probably have been to weld in a sheet of mild steel, and make a separate aluminum heat shield, or to paint the air duct inside and out with a heat resistant paint, but it is very hard to do a propper paint job on the inside, and coating the inside with under body sealer would not work with the heat in this area.

- Frederik

The past weekend I had planned to do some welding, sanding and cleaning of the chassis. I startet out just fine, but of course after not having the bottle of inert gas replaced on my welding unit in years I ran out of gas on Saturday, so no more welding that weekend..

The air ducts from the engine compartment was both cracked under the trunk, my guess is that it is due to vibrations over the years. I did get it repaired on one side (before I ran out of inert gas), and I welded in a piece to reduce future vibration movement.

I hope to be done with the welding, sanding and cleaning of the chassis by next weekend, so that I can get started on priming and coating. At that point my garage will need a thorough clean up from all the dust! before I start the assembling.

Best regards Frederik

Hello

Thank you, Anders ;D

I am finally done with the sanding and cleaning of the chassis (for now..), and I have got the areas with raw metal primed.

I should have spend some time wrapping some of my shelfs and other stuff in the garage with plastic.. It is quite the work getting it all clean again :-\

I have also startet on coating the engine crank case and brake calipers. The car is orange, so I choose a fluid and heat resistant two component epoxy top coat in Orange for the crank case (like some old Volvos..), but this paint has been very hard to work with, I have applied 3 coats, and it still seems to need a 4 coat :o I have used this paint in red once before 10 year ago, without this issue.. So I was not that keen on getting startet on painting the brake calipers (with the same paint in red). But for some reason it turns out that the red paint is much, much better, it almost gets perfect coverage in first layer. Know I feel like the engine crank case should have been red too, that would have been so much easier, but I am almost done with it, so orange it is.

I have also got my aluminum parts back from glas blasting, and then back from surface treatment. The parts looked great after glas blasting, but of cause this surface is completely open. After surface treatment the parts has become grey, I had been told that the colour would depend on the surface and the quality af the aluminum, it looks all right, but I would have liked it to turn out in a lighter shade. And the surface still seems very open, which is not what I expected.
All in all I was very pleased with the result of the bolts and metal parts, but next time I will not have the aluminum parts surface treated like this, just glass blasted and treated with Alodine.

Yesterday I recived two brand new gears for my gearbox, the were not cheap to come by, but it is going to be great with these and new synchromesh rings :D

The colors on the pictures does not seem "true", but you get the idea ;)

Regards Frederik

Hello

Thank you again, Anders :-)

I have been working some more on the car the last weeks, and it is for most parts going along just fine.

On the bright side I have a little ekstra time on my hands these days :-\

I have run into a problem; I knew that glas blasting and surface treatment of the gearbox housing would be a bit of a gamble, because I did not know, if the treatment would remove material. The guy who glas blasted the gearbox housing covered up the inside and bearing seats, but yesterday I was preparing to assemble the gearbox, and after getting the new bearings on the high gear axle, I tried to place the axle in the housing, and it just slided in (which it was not suppose too :'( ) It seems the surface treatment has removed some surface material, and now the fit is not correct.

As stated I knew it was a gamble, and it is not a big issue, I have two more gearbox housings, but this time I will just give it a good scrub down with paint remover, before assembling it.

Besides from the little ekstra gearbox work things a turning out just fine :)

I have bought a type of epoxy 2K primer which I have not been using before. It is made for boats and come in a light or regular version. It is from the manufacturer Hempel. The light primer which I bought is in my objective not light at all.. :D It is like soft-ice, but when thinned down it is surprisingly easy to work with (with a brush), no bubbles, good cover on edges, very nice finish. I don not know about the durability yet, but so far a am very pleased with it! I apply two coats, first one quiet thin, and the second a bit thicker.

Best regards Frederik

Hello

Things are moving forward :D

I am done painting the chassis. I have assembled the gearbox with new synchromesh rings, a couple of new gear-selector gears, some new bearings, and used parts from two old gearboxes; so I am very excited to try it out.. I cross my fingers and hope that I have done a good job.

The gas tank i bought from a scrap Bagheera has been cleaned, and the fuel sender from my old tank has been refurbished and installed; and yesterday I got the tank in place, with the new tank straps ;D

I have started out on installing the new brake lines, and I have been laying the last touch on my brake calipers installing new rubber boots; the only thing I am missing for the brakes are new brake hose.

I have also been cleaning all the old grease out of my CV joints on the drive axles, It had become a bit curdled/broken/old; so now I am changing the grease, and painting the axles.

The only hiccup lately has been that the console fixing the torsion bars too the chassis has been powder coated on the inside where the torsion bar splines goes.. And now the torsion bars can not get in, and I will some how have the grind the hard paint out of there :(

Best Matra regards Frederik

Hello

I got the paint out, so far so good. And the engine is back in the car :)

Earlier this year I bought an old gearbox from which I have been using some parts; with it followed a pain of drive shafts (type 2, 40 mm). The drive shafts were in better shape than my old ones (type 1, 35 mm), the CV joint boots was original and in good shape, the boots on my old shafts are some kind of universal CV joint boot, and not in the best condition. Therefore after a quick (too quick) comparison I decided to use my "new" type 2 drive shafts.. I have been spending quite some time cleaning old hardened grease out of the joints, removing old paint and rust, priming, painting and greasing up my new shafts, only too find out while assembling the wheel hub, that there is a difference between type 1 and 2 drive shafts (besides the shaft diameter), damn >:(

On the good side, I have found at complete pair of new CV joint boots for my old drive shafts, which will arrive next week.

My dad stopped by (at distance) with a lunchbox filled with the most lovely red bearing grease :D For some reason he has a 10 kg drum of bearing grease in his garage..

At the moment I only need too install the drive shafts, wheel hubs, brake calipers, bleed the brakes and clutch, and adjust the ignition timing, so it is getting close ;D

I am very excited to try out the gearbox, fingers crossed!

Best regards Frederik

Hi

Thanks, Anders!

This week I got the new CV joint rubber boots (old stock, but they seem alright), and I got the drive shafts in place with the trailing arms and suspension.

Now I am looking forward to receiving new break pads, break hoses and banjo bolts, so I can get the breaks done. Then I will need to bleed the breaks and clutch, fill in coolant, adjust ignition timing, and that should be it, ready for first test drive.

I almost bought a new exhaust, but then I saw that politecnic have a stainless exhaust similar looking to the original. If it turns out I have done a good job with the gearbox I will treat the car with a exhaust from politecnic, if not, it must wait until everything is working satisfyingly.

Best redargs Frederik

Hi

Finally after one and a half month I received my banjo bolts for my brake hoses; I guess the first shipment got lost.. But now they are fitted and the brakes (and clutch) has been bleeded :-)

I am not sure if the old brake hoses was the right ones for the car; my local spare parts guy could not find the right ones, so I ended up with a set of brake hoses from a Volvo V40, they have the same length as the old ones, and have a 10 mm banjo fitting at one end; I just needed to remove a bracket on the middle (carefully).

I have also made some "mudguards/inner fender pieces" out of a plate of fiberglass, which I have never had on the car before. I am going to seal them onto the car.

The new clutch feels much lighter to operate, and the overhauled rear brakes is not seizing up after the hand brake has been used ;)

I still need the fill and bleed the coolant system and adjust the ignition timing, but then I should be ready for the first test drive.

Regards Frederik

Hello

Good news and bad news..

I got the engine started and the igniting timing adjusted, so far so good :-) But I will need to take the gearbox out of the car once more :-[

I can not get into the gears (without using to much force, except for reverse, which works just fine..) . I have changed synchromesh rings and the "locking gears" (the gears which compressed the synchromesh rings while speeding up and locking the chosen gear). I think my problem is the new reproduction "locking gears", I did notise that they have a very rough surface on the inside (fabrication grooves), and the old ones are of cause worn, but completely smooth. While doing the assembling of the gearbox I did try the gears, but I thought It probably just needed to get varm/used; but the force it will take to get it in gear is sadly way to much.

I will remove the gearbox when I get the time, and either use my old (not great) locking gears, or I will have to do a lot of searching after a decent pair of used locking gears..

But all in all I still feel close to the finish now when I have got so familiar with the gearbox :D

Best regards Frederik

PS. I hope you are all getting some good quality road time in your Matra's ;D

Quote from: Moes on June 12, 2020, 09:28:13 am

Looks like a superb job! It's been 25 years since I had a Bagheera, if only I could have achieved what you have achieved with it I might still have it!
Looking at that left drive shaft reminded me that I had a persistent problem with it for several years, it used to crush the left side CV joints every 2000 km. In the end I found that the first person to fit a new drive shaft for me on the right hand side had put so much force on the differential to get it in, they had pushed the whole engine over on its mountings. So this squashed the CV joints on the left side every time they were replaced. After much staring into the engine bay one day I spotted that the engine mounting bolts were in a different position than originally. Once that was fixed everything was fine. So make sure your engine is in the right position left to right!
Keep us updated on progress with the gearbox, good luck with it.

Hi

Today I took the gearbox apart.

I have attached two fotos, one of the new "locking gear" and one of the old one.

I have been measuring the inside of the two locking gears, and they a exactly the same, but the new ones have fabrication groves, as seen on the picture.

I can not feel that much difference when comparing the force it takes too compress one of the new synchromesh rings with either the a new or an old locking gear. But when trying it on an old synchromesh ring the force needed is much smaller!

It seems the new refabrication synchromesh rings is my main issue.. The dimensions are the same (old vs. new, besides from the worn off friction material on one side of the old ones), It seems the new synchromesh rings needs more force to be compressed :-\

I while ago someone at a scrapyard told me that he had been repairing simca gearbox's a couple of times back in the 70's, a he remembered that it was possible just to turn the synchromesh ring around, because the mostly got worn on one side..

I am not sure what to do right now.. I could try very carefully to polish the fabrication groves away from the inside of my new locking gears, but it seems risky, and it is probably not a good idea, and I do not think I will make much difference, even if I succeed.. It might not even be the groves but the overall shape difference between new and old I can feel. I could also choose to use a set of old synchromesh rings (the other way around) ??? But I really would have liked to use the new synchromesh rings...

- Frederik

Quote from: Anders Dinsen on June 23, 2020, 07:00:20 am

I've been thinking about your problem, Frederik, and I think there may be something missing. I don't know the Bagheera gearbox, but I suspect the synchromesh also involves som locking mechanism. Could it be that mechanism that's preventing engagement - and not friction, as you seem to assume?

/Anders

Hi Anders

This is the kind of issue where a fresh set of eyes is very much appreciated!

There is a locking mechanism; on the side of the selected gear there are dog-teeth, which will lock with the inside teeth on the "locking-gear" (as seen on the pictures above). Selecting and locking a gear seems to consist of to functions: synchronizing the speed of the selected gear with the low gear axel (the "locking-gear" moves over the synchromesh ring, and compresses it, this is where the friction material does its work), followed by the "locking-gear" dog-teeth locking with the dog-teeth on the side of the selected gear (for power transfer); this should happen in one "smooth" movement :D

At the moment I think my new synchromesh rings are to hard to compress. But it is of cause difficult to compare new synchromesh rings with old worn out ones..

Hmm mm.. what to do ???

Regards Frederik

Hi Frederik

It's a frustrating problem, but the solution must be there somewhere.

So the old synchro didn't work well because the speed was only slowly synchronized due to the ring wear, and when you tried to engage the gear too fast, you'd then grind the gears, i.e. wear down dog teeth.

You say the synchro ring is compressed. I think I understand what you mean, but obviously the ring is not compressed. What is compressed, however, is the oil - which of course can't be compressed either, but can at least float away as the compression increases between the two faces.

Are you using the correct fluid? I would imagine that if the viscosity is too high, the oil works, but can't escape and therefore it will resist your attempt to engage the dogs?

/Anders

Quote from: Anders Dinsen on June 24, 2020, 06:40:20 am

Hi Anders

I can see that I have forgot to post a picture of a synchromesh ring, this will probably explain quite a lot :) The synchromesh ring is en "open" ring made out of some kind of hardened steel or spring steel; with a high friction material on the outer rim. That is why my best explanation is that the ring is being compressed (into a smaller diameter) ;)

And my explanation of the problem itself might not be bulletproof.. When I mention shifting gear "fast" I should have wrote: "in a normal fashion, but too fast for a worn synchromesh ring". Because the ware of the dog teeth can not be avoided over time if the synchromesh ring surface is worn off, of cause double clutching and shifting gear very carefully would help. Since I bought my car (and I got it running) especially 1. and 2. gear has been very bad, and I would normally have to try to get it in gear 2-3 times before succesding..

I have used a classic Castrol EP-90 gear oil, which according to my repair manual was the originally used type of gear oil. It does seem to have a very high viscosity!

Best regards Frederik

Hello

Yesterday I spend a couple of hours in the garage, after a few weeks of no work on the Bagheera.

I got the spark plugs changed, a new additional air bleed nipple on the coolant system installed, and I eventually got in the mood to have a look at the gearbox.

I tried to gently grind/polish the inside surface of one of the new locking-gears (I have found out that others call them "sliders" or "sliding sleeves"), it did make a noticeable difference, but I don´t feel good about this solution.

I have decided to use my new synchromesh rings, and my old sliders, even though I have read, that the sliders should be changes when the synchromesh rings are being changed. I have decided to go with this solution because it feels much easier to push/slide the old slider onto the a new synchromeshring, that a new slider onto the new synchromesh ring.

Best regards Frederik

Quote from: Moes on July 27, 2020, 10:58:38 am

This is interesting. It's always risky to combine different parts, but at the end of the day what matters is how it works. Have you made progress on this job? Sorry for not checking the forum for the past weeks!

/Anders

Hi Anders

I managed to get the gearbox back together and installed. But sadly my "solution" was not good enough..

2.,3. and 4. gear works.. but it takes to much force to get it in and out of gear, and I am not able to get it in 1. gear.. so I will be removing the gearbox once more :-\

Next attempt will be with with the old sliders, and old synchromeshrings; but with the synchromeshrings turned 180 degrees. And then that's it.. I am pretty sure this will result in a working gearbox, and with my expected low yearly milage in the car, it probably will be just fine. But a little bit annoying that I won't be using my new sliders or synchromeshrings..

I plan on doing my "next attempt" the upcoming weekend.

Have a great week!

Best regards Frederik

Hi

Today I got the gearbox back in the car; this time with the old sliders and old synchromeshrings (turned 180 degrees).

First real test drive of the year ;D

2. and 4. works perfect, 3. needs slightly more force to get in gear, 1. works perfect every second time i shift, the other half of my 1. gear shifts needs a little wiggle, but it all might just need to be used for a while, after the synchromeshrings have been turned around, and then it might just turn out fine :)

Other good results:
- The sound of bad rear wheel bearings are gone :D
- The sound from hanging rear break pads are gode :D
- The sound from the clutch engage bearing is gone :D
- The engine/diff./gearbox is not leaking oil anymore :D
- The car seems to be better at stopping, after the rear break calipers have been repaired :D

The conclusion: The car is back on the road! ;D

Have a nice weekend!

Best regards Frederik

Hello

Yesterday I started repairing the front break calipers.

They are not as bad as the rear break calipers was, but that is mainly due to that they do not have the same issue with corrosion between the bracket and the break cylinder, as seen on rear break calipers. But there are rust in the cylinders, pressing/locking the break pistons.

I am only going to clean the break calipers inside and outside, change all the rubber seals, and do a little touch up of the paint.

I my opinion the brakes has never been good on my Bagheera, so I am curious to see if a a good cleaning and new rubber seals will have any effect on the braking; I do not think I will have any great effect, but I hope I will ;D

There are two thinks I will need to find out: the torque for the bolts holding the break calipers together, and how the break pistons should be turned. There are a part of the break piston edge towards the brake pad which is depressed, which way should this be turned? I have pictures of how it was, but I would like too make sure that they were not fitted in a wrong way.

Best regards Frederik

MatraSport Forum

Each model => Bagheera => Topic started by: Moes on November 24, 2019, 06:15:21 pm