MatraSport Forum

It seems I’m leaking water, looks like the old water Reservoir expansion tank in the engine bay in my Murena is leaking, i think its getting old and is not doing too well when the engine gets hot. Which could get scary if it lets go! Anyone got a spare original, failing that has anyone had joy in finding a suitable modern replacement?

As ever, try Sports Car Unlimited in Newcastle for a replacement.

Is it leaking when the car is cold or only when you've driven it? If the water level goes up to full, it can leak out of the hose connected to the top of the header tank - this is a sign of a boiling engine, which will typically occur if you have a (perhaps unnoticed) leak around the water pump.

If you can't find one, I have been told that the reservoir from Audi/VW 19 TDI is useful and fits nicely in the corner. It also featuers a coolant level warning sensor. I haven't tried it myself, though, but I'm also looking for a good replacement - not necessarily an original one.

- Anders

Anyone got a number for sports cars unlimited?

0191 281 4036, ask for Gordon.

Ive taken some pictures of my header tank, but im not sure how to upload  so can i email the pictures to someone with a 2.2 Murena and compare. Just let me know you email and i'll send them to you. Ive found one but want to make sure its the same before i buy it. Thanks

Just click the "Additional Options" below the entry field where you write your message. In the "Attach" field you either write the full pathname of the picture, or (much easier) click "Browse" and find the picture that way.

If you have more than one picture, click "(more attachments)".

If everything fails, email  them to me (Lennart@MatraSport.dk) and I will put them up.

/Lennart

picture from davidewanprice (through email) :

If the one you have found is similar to the one you have in the photo, then it is correct. That is certainly an original 2.2 header tank.

- Anders

OK, its been a while, not long enough, :-\ but i've another cracked header tank! Not the same one by the way so i'm leaking again, a very nice water feature in the engine bay!

I'm giving up on the idea of buying second hand original, i'm thinking of investing in an Alloy header tank. Now Ive done a little searching on this and if money is no object I can have an exact replacement make for me which sounds great but not likely! So ive been looking round Ebay and other websites looking for something that will work in its place, so far the best one ive found is titled Alloy Radiator Header & Breather Tank (Pressure Cap Type) Cylindrical and is on the link below:

http://shop1.actinicexpress.co.uk/shops/Rat_Sport/index.php?cat=Radiator_Expansion_Tank___Swirl_Pot


Now this looks nice and has the correct number of inlet/outlet pipes BUT what Im worried about is that most of the diameters of these inlet/outlet pipes dont match the original pipes. eg the Bottom outlet pipe OD is 10mm whereas on the standard its more like 15mm, now would these restrictions cause problems ? On one of the pipes leading from the header to the area around the water pump, i notice this pipe starts as a 15mm pipe then reduces down to something more like 8 mm. Obviously I can by alloy reducer spacers and new pips but should I be doing this?

Some advise on this would be greatly appriciated as its a lot of money to spend if its no good for the car

Thanks as always,

David

Hi David.

Sorry to hear about your header tank. I have always thought the standard tank in the Murena was ugly and needed a stainless or aluminium replacement. :D
I have found several at Car Builders Solutions:
http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/index.asp

I have not bought one yet, as I am not sure if they can be used. The pipes are not an exact match, so some tinkering will be required. The same seems to go for the one you show.

Yes I have looked at their site, I think that the one priced very nicely at £45 must do the job but again the inlet/outlet sizes are far small than what we need and I'm not sure that the effect would be as a result, since it's under pressure I guess not much but I'm no expert... Ivealso seen one on eBay again for ~£40 for a Nissan skyline, this is a square tank but it doesn't say anything about pipe sizes our tank volume

Have you checked this one? They are somewhat pricey, but you can have them custom made.
http://www.evalution-designs.co.uk/Pages/Header%20Tanks.htm

Regarding connection sizes - it should not matter, except it's somewhat impractical to put reducers in the hoses instead of finding one that mates the original connections.

/Anders

I have a spare used original if you still want one?

G.P.

You'll laugh but I had a spare too but it's cracked, I'm going to consider other options but it's a very kind offer. Thanks for the link Anders but looking at these items they'd need Modification plus a pressure cap which I guess will add up to the price of the one on ratsport.

My other worry is is capacity, most seem to be 750 to 1000ml but the original is more like 2000ml +, surely this should be a concern ?

Following some discussions with Anders on a suitable replacement aluminium expansion tank, I visited Car Builder Solutions in the UK to compare their off the shelf tanks. I compared these directly with a Murena Tank and size and outlets can be compared. See pictures below to decide for yourselves on suitability?

Anyway I then visited Brise Fabrication and after discussion with them I have commissioned a one-off like for like prototype tank for myself. Although as Anders rightly points out the top pipe fitting goes to the thermostat housing which is a 6mm. / 1/4" hose, so I will request this size to be welded in. I will also have a 30mm. dia. plate 10mm. thick welded in across the minimum water level mark to give the option of fitting in a float level switch which CBS can supply.

http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/float-switch-flsw-5342-p.asp

Brise will only do a one off unit in the first instance for £175:00, but will be happy to discuss volume discounts if any of the Forum Members would be interested in one depending on the outcome?

http://www.brise.co.uk/tanks.html

Will keep you posted.

GP

Interesting!

Price is high though, BUT I understand this is custom.. Might be interested, are there any other people interested?

Thanks for posting, Graham. I think I forgot to answer your last e-mail :(

I think this is the best possible solution. Our tanks are a little special. I haven't been able to find a tank off a modern car that would fit, so there's no doubt that a custom one is the best. And hopefully, the price can be somewhat reduced if we are able to collect enough orders for Brise to do a small batch of them. As a one-off item, I don't think the price is too bad, however. And this is something you don't want to compromise quality on. One thing is the water sprayed over the engine, that's not really a problem, but the risk of damaging the engine is high.

My tank is still intact, but with the problems I've seen others having with cracking tanks, I'm not going to ignore it! So I'm definitely in on a piece - even if the price will remain.

/Anders

For a Murena 1.6 an Alfasud/Sprint and Alfa 33 expansion tank will do.
Original number: 60504309, 533765

http://www.matramania.be/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2029&highlight=expansie

I have found a number of promising tanks at jegs.com

http://www.jegs.com/c/Cooling-AC-Heating_Catch-Cans-Expansion-Tanks/10127/10002/-1

These are the ones I might go for myself. They have threaded holes bottom and top, plus the overflow in the neck. That way I can mount the fittings that suit the Murena.

http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Expansion-Tank/1244442/10002/-1

the description reads:
"EGS Expansion Tank is constructed from formed .090" wall aluminum and welded for strength and durability. Allows the cooling system to be filled from the expansion tank to minimize air in applications where the radiator is mounted low in the chassis. Includes 1/8" NPT x 5/16" hose overflow fitting, 1/4" NPT inlet bung and 1/2" NPT outlet bung. 1-1/2 quart capacity. Measures 7" H x 6.5" W x 3-3/4" D. Accepts standard radiator pressure caps. Available with a stamped or billet aluminum neck and in clear anodize or polished finish. Made in USA."

The billet version, annodized, is $106, or £67. The poliushed version is slightly more.

Jon, don't forget there will be added 6% (?) import tax + 25% VAT on import from the USA - unless you're really lucky and they let it pass.

And tell me, do you think it will look good in the engine room? It looks like something from a central heating system ;)

/Anders

I am visiting my daughter in Albuquerque, Mew Mexico, for Christmas, so I would bring them back in the luggage.  ;D

About the look, I agree with you. They kind of look like an aluminium cooking pot with a few modifications.  >:(

I am still debating welding my own, versus buying one. They are quite expensive, IMO. I would also prefer it in stainless steel. We shall see. ;)

I just picked up the MK 1 ALuminium Expansion Tank Prototype which is looking promising I must say. They have also fitted an internal baffle plate to strenghten the assembly.

The liquid float level switch from CBS is suitable to fit as an optional extra without further modifications, as the compression gland is designed to compress either side of thin walled plate.

Will report back after further fitting and fettling .

NB: The company will consider reducing the price further if a larger quantity is ordered.  A firm committment will be required though from you before I proceed any further and request a price. 


GP

That looks very nice indeed, Graham, and even though I'm always looking to save money, this one really looks like it definitely is worth what you've paid. The fact that it's a perfect replica makes it even more interesting.

Is this the switch you are referring to?
http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/float-switch-flsw-5342-p.asp
I'm not sure I understand how you want to fit it though and why you are referring to compressing it?

I'm definitely interested and will make a firm commitment, but I can wait for others to show interest. Anyone?
We might consider sharing this on other Murena forums as well as in the Matra Magazine.

/Anders

That looks nice, despite moving house and being very poor I think I'll be having one of these, any news on a definate price?

Hi Graham.

Very nice indeed. I am definitely interested in a group buy. How many, and what discounted price are we talking about?

Did you just cut out the mounting plate from a spare Murena to try the fit? That is what it looks like in one of the photos.  ???

Hi Graham.
I am in for for a tank.
(I will take a few more working days abroad in order to be able to afford it)


@Aders.
I think this is the  level switch
http://www.cbsonline.co.uk/float-switch-flsw-5342-p.asp
You just drill a 22 mm hole tighten the nut until the silicone expands and you are up and running with a switch for a low leve alarm for the cooling water.

Hans

Some feedback.... a picture paints a thousand words.

NB: The top outlet to the radiator was 8mm. not 6mm. as requested so I fitted a short length of hose with a nylon reducer.

Regarding discounted price I will not know until I have an indication of numbers interested. No cash required to express an interest though.

Jon: Yes I used the mounting bracket cut out of a donor car I have to give to the fabricator to ensure the tank fitted correctly.

G.P.

It looks fantastic, Graham. And I understand the level switch fitting now :)
Too bad about the 8mm outlet, but obviously only a minor issue - and since that appears to be the only flaw, it indicates they've done a really good job (the QA engineer thinks ;) )

Now you just need to make new straps in stainless steel like the ones I made. It is not difficult. ;D

Caution about the float level switches made from plastics.
The max heat is about 80 C degree (180F).
They get misformed easy.
Better is to go for RVS like this one.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Curve-Water-Level-Sensor-Liquid-Float-Switch-Pool-Steel-/160504102042?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item255eca3c9a

That's a very good point.

The particular one from CBS is rated up to 110 deg C and will probably accept more for brief periods without deformation, but note that the boiling point of the water in the tank is increased with pressure, so it could well be more than 100 deg over longer periods since pressure in the cooling system is well above 1 bar during normal operation.

But I'm not going to fit a level switch or sensor. It will not help detect boiling in the cylinder head as will happen when there's a small leak around the water pump for example: Initially the coolant level will increase and only after the water has stopped boiling will the level reduce. At that point the engine is probably damaged anyway.

/Anders

Hi
The water level sensor will give you an alarm on some kind of errors such as a leaking radiator (that killed my cylinder head) However I will like to combine the water level alarm with a high temperature alarm. The N9TE engines have a temperature sensor in the cylinder head that gives a "STOP" alarm at temperatures above 110 C.

Hans

Two things wrong there Anders!  The temperature should not be above 100 degrees for ANY length of time and the pressure should not be above 85 kPa which is about 12 psi otherwise the pressure cap is not working correctly.

These systems should be kept below 98-100 degrees and if the thermostat and rad. switch are working correctly it should switch the fan in at 95 degrees, and even allowing for the distance between radiator and engine, the coolant should never exceed 100 degrees.  The minute the gauge shows anything like 100 degrees (sensor in the thermostat housing) you should switch off and find out why.

So that level switch rated for 110 degrees should be fine.

Roy

Boiling point water at 12 psi pressure is around 117 C.
Beside the discussion if the water can reach this kind of temps in the expansion unit, I would never choose for plastics there.
Factory figures especial from Chinese fabrication are on the optimistic side.
80 C is the max.
This things are made for swimming pools gardening etc.
Don't let this beauty go cripple on this piece.
The RVS is not expencive compared to the plastic one.
Better save then sorry.

Of course. Thank's for correcting me, Roy! Of course, I would never drive with the temperature sensor above 100 or even 90. I don't know what I was thinking about there?

The reason the system is under pressure is to avoid local boiling, which will take place even below 100 degrees if the pressure is not kept up. This is not something mysterical, but rather a phenomenon we all know from boiling water in a pot: There will be bubbles in the water long before the water has reached boiling temperature.

/Anders

Any news on the finished product?

Still no news on a final price? How many others are interested?

I only had interest in x 3 in total including yourself. I will pay them a visit and get a price for this number next week sometime.

G.P.

Sounds good - I'm still interested!
As far as I can count we're 4: Jon, Hans, David and me.

Hi
I confirm my "order".
Hans

Thanks for your efforts!

I took my newly fabricated  (and tested O.K.) aluminium expansion tank and the original plastic one into Brise Fabrication yesterday and requested a quote for 5 x MK2 versions.

These will be a bit fuller in the body and with the correct size top outlet for the thermostat vent. Awaiting price and will advise soonest.

G.P.

Outstanding. I'm stil on for one.

I am pretty sure that Philbert also wants one. Last I looked, his expansion tank looked like it was cracking too.

Not forgotten. Went into Brise on friday to encourage them but they are very busy right now.
Will advise price soonest.

GP

Hi there, any news on a price, have some money saved for finally getting my car back on the road so am wanting to get something sorted soon, I have also been looking at a forge Motorsport alloy tank which is a similar price and might just work (for Renault 5 turbo 2 http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&cat=0011&product=FMHT058), I think it holds approx 1.8L so not quite as much a the original (I think approx 2L). Let me know what you think of both options?

That is funny, I am just busy to find a replacement for it and you come up with the same thing.
I have a topic about it on the Belgium forum but can't link the members section.
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6632/p1020980medium.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/i/p1020980medium.jpg/)
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2562/p1020973medium.jpg) (http://img412.imageshack.us/i/p1020973medium.jpg/)
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1982/p1020976medium.jpg) (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/p1020976medium.jpg/)
I am comparing things for months and I think this is the way to go.
But I go for the plastic one.
The biggest problem was to find a cap that had the same properties as the Murena cap for the plastic tank.
The Murena cap works with 0.8 bar (12 psi) and also when in the cool down release of under pressure is needed.
Renault couldn't help me out there, because the caps they have are not exact, and I like this figures to be perfect.
After a lot of research I found the right cap on a different car
I have this things ready for mounting, but little time to finnish the job an test it out.
If you want to be the guinea-pig I wouldn't mind, but why not go for the cheap one to experiment.

http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280626444311&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI

Leave 0.6 Liter in this tank for expansion, because there is 11 liter coolant in the system that must expand, so the max level must be lower then the max indication a bit.
Also the 2 big connections  are to big for the standard hoses so some modification is needed.
If you go this way I can provide you the information of what cap to use.
I wanted this to keep for myself till I tested it out and not disturb the things graham is doing for people looking, but now you come up with the same thing I can help with the info I already gathered.

Well thank you for showing this, if the alloy replacement can still be obtained and at a good price then I'm in but this does seem a good alternative. That sizes are the inlets/outlets? Im sure a short piece of pipe into an alloy reducer would work nicely. Have you tried to see how it can be mounted in the engine bay, looks like it might still fit into the original fitting with some modification of the wire clips.

If you go for the Renault alloy, make sure it has the conic double bottom and the upper plate behind the small inlet as the Renault tank have.
It is important as a precaution avoiding air in the system.
This Renault tank is a clever tank wich is needed for the 2.2 , and maybe it is also good to mount in the 1.6 so you don't need the modification with the expansion valve.
At the breakers I got a tank for a Clio with the double outlet at the bottom (There are also with one).
They have a rubber strip to mount wich can also be used at the Murena.

I provide some extra info.
Here is a picture how it should be connected.
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6711/206dopmedium.jpg) (http://img208.imageshack.us/i/206dopmedium.jpg/)
Connect things as stated in my picture, and try to mount the tank as high as possible.
The 77**** numbers are the Renault numbers for the tank.
The blanc cap is 0.7 bar but Renault could not deliver, and I doubt if it releases the under pressure in cool down..
You have to go to the Peugeot dealer for the cap.
It is Peugeot number 1303.40, and it cost around €8.-
It is 0.8 bar (12psi) wich is exactly what is needed.
Also I tested the under pressure release, and that works fine.
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5117/p1030072medium.jpg) (http://img600.imageshack.us/i/p1030072medium.jpg/)
There are disadvantages for this tank, and I don't now yet if it will work properly, but I will find out in a few weeks.
I am pretty sure it will do o.k.
The original tank is 2.5 litre.
This one is 1.6 litre.
That is a liter less in the system.
Also when water is released because of overheating, there is no output to mount the hose that leads down the car.
It will boil over at the cap. (who cares)
I will have to test it out in heavy stress for the engine in hot weather to see the engine not get overheated.
It has to be summer for that, so i am not in a hurry to finnish the job.
I calculated 0.5 litre expansion needed in a temperature rise of 80°C for the 11 litre coolant.
The max level has to be between max and min indication on the tank to give it room to expand.

Latest from Brise Fabrication on the Aluminium Expansion Tanks is that they are so busy right now they will not be able to advise or start work until after Easter. They are still very keen for the business though.

Keep you posted.

G.P.

That's ok. I can wait, but still interested :-)

Me too. Just let us now when we can order  :D

Hi
I am also still interested, but can easily wait, especially since I am going to work in Amman for at least a year.

Hans

The new expansiontank is in the car now.
I made a temoprary mounting for the time it is in test.
First 40 miles with the tank is done.
No problems detected till now.
The max level has to be in the middle between min and max and then there is enough room for the expansion needed.

video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8Mdx3TpEFU

I'm not ruling out buying one but have been doing some looking around over the past week or two and I may have someone who will build me something very similar to the original for approx £80. I must admit I'm very tempted...

The web address is: http://www.specialistfabricationswelding.co.uk/cms/home

OK so temptation led me to a purchase, I must admit to worrying about what I might get for my money but i'm very happy, the item isnt an exact replica but thats fine with me.

I sent my spare cracked tank down for him to take a look at and base as a template and once we were both happy on what was being done it took 1 day to make and I received it through the post the next day.. All this cost me £88.50 posted. That is service!

For anyone wishing to contact him, he has kept my old tank and would be happy to do these for anyone wanting one.

His details are:

Tony
07974413693
www.specialistfabricationswelding.co.uk

Not bad, David, not bad at all. The lower price and the fact that he can supply it now makes it tempting. How do you plan to fit it to the wall?

/Anders

I don't know how David would do it, but from the photos it looks like the tank has the two knobs that fit into the rubber grommets on the wall to the boot. therefore I suspect that a bit of bending of the original straps, to fit the slightly new shape, would do the trick nicely.

BTW, I made a new set of those straps in stainless wire, of course.  ;D Not difficult

Looks good, and not expencive for a handjob :P

You are quite right. it has the 2 pins but there was no bending or foul play, it fits like a glove in to the two holes and sits perfectly between the "arms" of the bracket. I must admit, I was worried about this part as I didnt tell Tony about the bracket but it fits perfectly, I may cut a bike inner tube up to stop any metal on metal scratching.. (if you look at the original the side with the pins is flat, it just has rounded edges)

My only advise for anyone having a new one made is to confirm the bracket size as maybe you wont be lucky like me...

One thing, the original straps wont fit wound this so you might have to ask Jon nicely to manufacture some nice shiny replacements to fit in stainless, however since I have many spare parts, if you have 2 x of the longer sides of the original bracket, this can be used to attach the bracket.

Oetker

Please dont take offence in me correcting you but this was handmade, a handjob is something very different and not included in the price!

David

Sometimes Dutch jokes don't hit the target. :-X

I was going to comment on your choise of words, but David already did  ;)
But about the price... You pay that much for a handjob? It mus be because you have the Euro. It sounds kind of 'stiff'  ;D

In the top post on page 3 of this thread I already included a photo of the stainless straps I made. This was a first attempt and they work quite nicely. I was not quite pleased with the smoothness of the bends, but it was close enough for government work :D
I used 2mm stainless wire that Philbert had on hand.

BTW, David. Have you considered making a hole for a float switch, such as the one Graham have pictures of on page 2 of this thread ? I think I would want that, or a sight tube on the side.

Quote
---------
You pay that much for a handjob?
=========================
Only with 2 hands, shaken, not stirred.
Yep, I know it, I am a case for Sigmund Freud.
(http://th175.photobucket.com/albums/w122/Overkill_bucket/th_Sigmund.gif)

I visted Brise Fabrication yesterday. They have promised that they will have 5 x Aluminium Cooling Expansion Tanks ready in 2 weeks time. As they actually have mine as a pattern I hope they are true to their word, as I would like it back in my car soonest.
Regarding the price, this was still not resolved but I have made the order anyway and just hope that I will be able to sell them at whatever cost I negotiate under £175:00.

GP

I'm looking forward to hearing news from you/Brise. And I hope you get yours back soon so you can get back on the road! :)

/Anders

I now have in my possession Qty. x 5 MK2 Version "Brise Fabrication" Pressure Tested Aluminium Matra Murena 2.2 Coolant Expansion Tanks, which fit using existing mounts and hoses.

Price paid by me £160:00 each. I will sell at cost this time only, plus the relevant postage charges to whatever destination.

N.B. Brise advised that £250:00 would be the appropriate Market Price, if I was to sell them as a dealer.

Anders, Jan, Hans, David and Philbert will have the first chance to purchase if you are still interested?

GP

They sure look nice, sadly I'm out as I found an alternative supplier

No worries, sold to Darreenheli.

GP

I'm certainly still interested. They're looking great. Many thanks for working this out, Graham!
Jon, Philbert and I are living close to each other, so should be combined in shipment, I suppose.

/Anders

O.K. Thats good keep us posted then of your intentions then.

All x 3 together to Denmark costs £24:00.

Individually to Denmark £18:00.

GP

1 x Aluminium Water Expansion Tank left for sale.

£160:00 plus post and package.

GP

Sorry I have been traveling, missed a few postings.
I NEED one tank, how to pay? Please send me a PM.

Hans

Hi Hans,

The final tank is yours then. I will send you a PM  to arrange payment.

GP

I've had my tank installed now for a few weeks and it's looking and working great. Here's a photo of the completed installation. Note that the overflow hose is not fitted: The new tank has a larger diameter outlet and the tank is sitting a few mm higher than the original. This meant that the rubber hose which I tried to fit conflicted with the chassis and prevented correct fitting of the tank. I'm going to fit a clear 10 mm pvc hose which compresses more easily.

Thanks to Graham for having these beautiful tanks made for us!

/Anders

I am just back on holiday from my work abroad, and have opened the packet with the expantion tank. The tank looks great.
Thanks Graham.
Hans

I have just gone through this topic...
I am looking for new cooling hoses for the car and I was a bit confused, because I have only three connections on it.
Now I realised that I do not have the original expansion tank. I have the same as Oetker mentioned...
Could you share the experiences about it? Any weak points?

Sorry I could not read your writing on the photo. The top connection goes to the thermostat the bottom to the motor and what is the center connection for?
Could you send some photos of the hoses just to see how you solved them?
Many thanks.

There is no center connection.
The bottom has 2 in/outlets.
One of the bottom inlets goes to the front (Radiator) It a small tube so you need a reducer.

This setup is running OK without problems so far.
I still have the experimental set-up in the car and drove the car in all circumstances for some time now.

There is one disadvantage.
The tanks holds 1 liter less cooling fluid.
The original holds 2.5 liter and this one 1.6 liter.
No problems so far.

Greets Herman

Sorry, I was not correct. I meant center connection refer to this picture, see below.
So it must be OK, thanks.
Only one thing I have to keep in my mind, as I read in the topic, it is adviced not to fill it up to the MAX...

You need to keep 0.6 liter space for expansion.
Wich is a small bit above half full.

See the movie I provided.
Around the black stripe is ok.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8Mdx3TpEFU

Thanks, that was very informative.

Hey dudes,

I can see from this thread, that two different english manufacturers have done a great job og making new
aluminum header tanks for the 2.2.
Any feedback regarding quality? And has anyone been in contact with one of these manufacturers lately?
Seems hard to get hold of these guys.

 ;D

Best, Jesper

Hello Jesper,

http://www.brise.co.uk/Fabrications-Overview.html

This is the reputable U.K. company that fabricated a batch for me to replicate the original several years ago seen in this thread. They would need an original tank for a pattern and the holding bracket from the rear of the engine bay (of which I still have). I would be prepared to visit them and see if they would make a one off for you and get a price if you want?

Cheers,

Graham

Graham, a quote would be great. You don't think that they already have the specs, after having made the first badge?
They really need a reference tank?
Best , Jesper

Hi Jesper,
I will get a quote then. They will definitely not have the specs as all they do is measure and replicate the plastic reservoir as they go along. The company is only 10 minutes from where I live, so it is not a problem to take in a sample and get a quote. The quality of the first one I had made was spot on, although the second batch was a little lax on the inlet/outlet sizes. I will be insistent that these are the same as close as possible. I have had a bespoke 20 litre aluminium fuel tank in my Murena also made by the same company for 15 years with no problems.
Cheers,
Graham

That's fantastic. The upper inlet is that the same diameter as the original or has it been refused to match the hose instead of having to use a reducer? I had a really ugly one on mine

The upper inlet was made smaller than the original 17.4mm outside dia. to try and make the ugly reducer redundant. However the upper inlet fabricated was 9.5mm outside dia. so I still had to use a short piece of hose and a 8 - 6mm nylon reducer to connect to the existing hose. See images.

The question to you Jesper is what outside size dia. do you want the upper inlet to be?

N.B. These tanks do not come with a filler cap.

The Fah-ler 13lbs filler cap shown was sourced on eBay and compliments the tank very nicely:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fahler-Polished-Stainless-Steel-Radiator-Rad-Cap-With-Release-Valve-13lbs-/261872516155?hash=item3cf8d17c3b:g:dQUAAOSwv0tVQ0-7

Super.. thank you .

Monday I'm gonna check out the diameter.
If you can get a quote anyway that would be great

Went to Brise on friday afternoon and found their new premises, unfortunately they finished early and had left!  >:(

Will try again next week.  Meanwhile this thread has kick-started me into fitting a float level switch into my expansion tank.
I have had this switch sitting in a draw for sometime:

http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/float-switch

As they point out it is very cheap insurance against an expensive engine rebuild. The tank Brise builds has a baffle plate inside for strength, so I will check the clearance in my existing tank which has now been removed and if O.K. drill a hole and mount the float level switch. If the plate is too high I will make sure any future tanks fabricated have this plate lower down.

Reference the wiring of the float level switch, I previously received this useful information from Roy Gillard on how to connect it up.  This does apply to me as I have my brake pad indicators disconnected:

"If you do fit this switch there is possibly an even easier way to wire
it up. I assume it has two wires to it, and these connect when the
float is down, to bring on a warning light.

The Murena already has a warning light system built in. The one
activated when you press the middle button on the left. This is
normally for the brake fluid low level and pads worn, but can be used
for the coolant too.

You would take one of the wires from that switch and earth it. The
other wire needs to connect to the warning light system, and you have a
connection over on the right for the rear pad (but it is rarely
connected) So if yours is not connected for the rear pad, then connect
that to the coolant float wire.

Now when the float drops and connects the two wires together, the earth
will be provided to bring on the dash warning light."

Will keep you posted on any updates on this little project:

Visited Brise again today Monday 26th. October. Tim said he had had contact with you and would prefer me to act as the middle man. He will give me a price for making x 4 (cheaper than one!) then if anyone calls him in future  he will direct them to me.

When you have decided the inlet pipe O.D. I will call him and get a price.

I have left him the original tank, chassis bracket and straps along with my aluminium tank so he can price things up. I will pm you the cost price for one and then you can make your decision.

Hi Graham,

This is slightly off-topic, but would they be able to make a Murena S manifold from an original? Unlike the real thing, it would not be cast but welded as Simon made in the past:

(http://www.simon-auto-shop.com/artikelbilder/03067A.jpg)

Regards,
JL.

Hi JL,

They would probably make one with a pattern or a scale drawing. Give them a call, select "1" fabrication and see if Tim is interested?

If so I could help you out with some assistance on this. You would have to pay him direct though.

Cheers,

Graham

P.S. As you probably know Simon have discontinued this item. I did have my German partner ring them to check today though just in case, which they unfortunately confirmed.

Hi Graham,

I will try to ring them and see how they feel about it.

Then if they think it may be feasible, the next challenge would be to find somebody willing to lend (or temporarily sell me) an original manifold...

Thank you for offering your help!

Cheers,
JL.
PS: Simon ran out of them a few months before I finally made my mind up to buy one!

Errr.... I could probably loan you one.   ;)

Graham,

You have a genuine S manifold which you do not use? You're a godsend!

I saw that your car uses a straight manifold (same model as mine). Does it give better performance (identical, shorter path for each cylinder?) or is it to minimise the lever on the cylinder hear (shorter manifold)?

I want to move away from this type of manifold because too many things foul (cooling pipes on carbs, distributor connector on thermostat housing, alternator tensioning bracket etc) and the carburettor barrel of cylinder 1 is 2 inches away from the petrol tank, preventing me from fitting an air box. Your improved petrol tank addresses the last issue!

Unfortunately, I had too much to do today to call Brise. Hopefully tomorrow!

Cheers,
JL.

Hi again Graham,

My situation is a little special due to the fact that I have a v6 instead of the original 2.2.
I just measured the tud above the waterpump on the alfa v6 engine (where the tube goes to, from the upper stud on the header tank), and it measured only 6mm.
So I guess, that the upper stud - for my murena setup - should be 6mm in diameter.
Regarding the other possible "customers" to this batch, I seem to remember that the 2.2 had a brass-adapter for the upper stud on the header tank. Would 6mm actually work for them also?

Another thought - if you get brise to actually check the inner baffle plate for an optional level-mounting, perhaps they could make a pre-drilled mounting hole for this also?

Looking forward to getting a quote, based on this.
Thanx, Jesper
Denmark

Hi Jesper,

6mm outside dia. for this top inlet spigot pipe would be fine then for your car and standard 2.2 murenas too, so they can dump the reducer.

The cost price to me from Brise is £175:00 plus 20% V.A.T. plus cost postage to Denmark, which I am happy to do for you if you want?

I have specified that the baffle plate should be mounted 120mm. from the top rather than the current 90mm. to enable the installation of the float level switch via a 22mm. hole.

Brise pressure test these tanks, so I would not get them to pre-drill this hole as it is such a simple thing for the individual to do before they mount the tanks if they want a float switch.

Cheers,

Graham

Hi again Graham,

They look absolutely stunning, but I think I will have to pass on that price. With 20% vat and postage, it will be almost 2400,- danish kroner, that's a little too much for me at the momen, unfortunately  :'(

But thanx for all the work Graham.
Best, Jesper

Hi JL,

No unfortunately I do not have a spare original "S" manifold. Mine is the short one made by Politechnic which is the same as yours and why I have the smaller petrol tank.

The only reason I used it was because that was all that was available. Nothing technical or performance related to this length other than I wanted to bolt on twin carbs.

http://www.politecnic.com/piecescarburation.htm

I have never personally seen an "S" Spec inlet manifold, so if this is what you want to copy you really need to beg, borrow or steal one  ::) before talking to Brise.

Cheers,

Graham

Oops, I already emailed Brise on Sunday saying I could find an original to use as a pattern. Luckily they have not answered yet!

The original S sets the carburettors higher and the left one (Cyl 1 & 2) is moved closer to the other one. It also moves the thermostat housing further back and to the right.

Now I need to find one...

Cheers,
JL.

Hi JL,

Don't worry I just had a chat with Tim at Brise about your e-mail manifold request and I said I would respond to you for him.

Apart from the sample manifold he will need a cylinder head and a pair of carburettors to jig up the whole assembly. I have an old cracked head you can borrow, but I do not have the carburettors.

He says he is willing to take on the project. He can fabricate this using a C.N.C. machine to make the flanges and weld in the required manifold pipes. Cost wise though it is very difficult for him to give you a quote without the actual manifold to see.

He will only do quality work, so I would not expect this one off to be particularly cheap though.

Cheers,

Graham

Hi JL,
have sent you a PM

Regards
Kai

Hi Graham, did you ever get to fit that float level switch in your header tank?
Best, Jesper

Hello Jesper,

No never got round to fitting it. Played with it though by plugging it into the (unused on mine) offside rear brake pad wear sensor wire (as suggested by Roy) and earthing the other to the chassis. Had great fun though moving the float arm up and down making the warning light go on and off on the dashboard, so it should work a treat if the water level does drop.

Cheers,

Graham

Just jumping in on this if you don't mind. I have an alloy tank and i fitted the float level switch from car builder solutions, and connected up as per Roy's instructions to the brake circuit. It works perfectly and helped with the filling of the cooling system. It took around a week of constant topping up the coolant to finally let the all the air out and keep the warning light off.

Anyone wanting a replica of the Prep 142/S inlet manifold has no need to try. :)

I already have a few new inlet manifolds for two twin 40 side-draught carburettors, Dell'Orto would be the best for a road car, but Weber second, and Solex probably last choice unless you are after originality - but then the manifolds I can supply are not original anyway.  They are cheaper as they are not cast alloy but made from flanges machined and then alloy tubes welded across for the passages.  However, they also incorporate the extension coolant housing which you need, like the original, and all for a lower price than those sold previously. (see photos)

This car was a only being set up last week-end and isn't complete yet, but you can see we are using 15mm trumpets on the inlet side, and hopefully there will be an air box eventually to take the air intake lower so it is cool and not from the very top which is much too hot.

If you look at the first photo showing the extension jacket, you can also see the 'S' dipstick tube which is different to the standard 2.2 tube, and you either need that or modify the original.  Depending on where you got the twin side-draught carbs. they may also need new throttle brackets to join the two as the carbs. are closer together compared to say those on a Lotus or Jensen and their linkage will be too wide.

Underneath there also needs to be a different throttle cable bracket, so making your own proper twin side-draught carb. setup is not so straight forward as you might think.  I only have a few inlet manifolds at the moment although we can probably get more made if there was a demand.  I don't have the other parts!  

Contact me if you are interested and want to know more.  (roy@matraclub.org.uk)

As for the coolant header tank float level, that is an easy modification which is described in my technical article on the cooling system and suggested mods. that you can download from my website.  I have it on my car and it works well.

Roy

Hey again Graham, if you could still get hold of the guys who made these headertanks, I would like to buy one, and get it shipped to Denmark. I don't trust my old crackled plastic tank anymore  ;D
Best, Jesper
Denmark

Hi Jesper,

I was getting them made in bulk for me personally to keep the cost down and selling them at cost to help out guys here on the Forum. Twice I did this over the years.

The last lot I had made the guy who wanted one first then pulled out after I had spent over a £1000:00 of my own money!  >:(
Dick Head was his name I think?  ;D His was the one I offered you in 2015 which is now long gone.........

Brise do not have any dimensions or anything and if they made a one off for you I would expect it to much more expensive.

I am definitely not willing or even able to get involved in any more projects like this at the moment. Sorry.

If you were to ask on the Forum (Wanted) some of the guy's may have their old plastic ones they replaced available to you. Or even an aluminium one I had made they purchased and never fitted?

Cheers,

Graham

Oa... super sorry to hear about that deal going wrong. Well, then, I might look at other alternatives.
Thanx again for the prompt responce.

Best, Jesper

I have a non-leaking plastic tank which I can send you, Jesper.
/Anders