MatraSport Forum

Each model => Espace => Topic started by: José V. Gavilá on February 18, 2005, 01:21:46 pm



Title: Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 18, 2005, 01:21:46 pm
Hello!

I am about to buy a 1999 Espace V6 24V (auto) and wonder if there is any other user of a similar engine unit. If so, could you comment about it?

Thanks!

Best regards,

JOSE


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on February 19, 2005, 12:39:28 am
Hi Jose

I have a 24V Grand Espace which I've run now for about 4 years and 80,000Km.
The 24v is a lovely engine but the auto box makes it difficult to get the best use out of it - I test drove a 3.0 litre Avantime 6 speed which was a revelation in terms of instant power.
I always drive with the 'snow' button pressed in, disabling first gear and I believe raising the change up points on the other gears. First makes the car jerky, disabled it's much smoother and the torque converter gets to do some work.
My car was involved in a serious accident before I bought it and rebuilt it so it's not typical. But I've had problems with engine mounts breaking so I'm very careful particularly when accelerating out of corners as the drive shafts can pull  out if a mount brakes.
Any specific questions?

Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 19, 2005, 12:54:18 am
Hello Will,

Thanks for your answer!. It is nice to meet an Espace 24V user :)

Well, as I have not yet got it (I think will get it next week), I am very curious about fuel consumption... I know it will not be low but, please, could you tell me which is the kind of driving you do and the fuel you burn?

BTW, I own a Citröen XM 2.0 Turbo CT and get about 10.5 liters / 100km (with a moderately light driving). I know the Espace will be thirstier but don't know how much!

Another thing I need is a USER'S MANUAL, despite of language, as I will not get one with the car. Has somebody one to share with me?. An scanned copy would be just fine. Thanks!

Thanks and best regards,

JOSE
http://jvgavila.com

Hi Jose

I have a 24V Grand Espace which I've run now for about 4 years and 80,000Km.
The 24v is a lovely engine but the auto box makes it difficult to get the best use out of it - I test drove a 3.0 litre Avantime 6 speed which was a revelation in terms of instant power.
I always drive with the 'snow' button pressed in, disabling first gear and I believe raising the change up points on the other gears. First makes the car jerky, disabled it's much smoother and the torque converter gets to do some work.
My car was involved in a serious accident before I bought it and rebuilt it so it's not typical. But I've had problems with engine mounts breaking so I'm very careful particularly when accelerating out of corners as the drive shafts can pull  out if a mount brakes.
Any specific questions?

Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on February 19, 2005, 01:28:06 pm
I do mainly motorway driving and I use the cruise control whenever possible to get best petrol mileage. According to the onboard computer I get up to 28 miles per gallon (a gallon being 4.5litres, a mile 1.6Km) at 79mph.  But around town it drops to 15mpg or worse. It's very dependent on wind conditions at high speed.

I bought my user manual from Renault, they should be able to supply one.

I've got 16" wheels on mine, as Renault fitted to the late cars. These give much sharper steering and I would consider 17" if I change them again (my company sells wheels...)

I nearly bought an XM before the Espace. I had a CX GTi Turbo 2 at the time but it was too small for our 3 children.

We've driven as far as Spain in the Espace fully laden with kids bikes inside. On the fast motorways around the Mediterranean it was brilliant.
At 100mph in 35C heat both the fans come on and it gets quite noisey!

Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 21, 2005, 08:48:17 am
Hello Will,

Thanks for your answer!

Ok about consumption; it seems logical to me, having the XM 2.0 Turbo experience...

About the manual, I will contact Renault locally but, please, is there any way you could scan more interesting pages?. I am mostly interested in 'cockpit' controls and engine levels to have a good check when I go to do the last checking tomorrow.

Thanks for your help!

Regards,

JOSE

I do mainly motorway driving and I use the cruise control whenever possible to get best petrol mileage. According to the onboard computer I get up to 28 miles per gallon (a gallon being 4.5litres, a mile 1.6Km) at 79mph.  But around town it drops to 15mpg or worse. It's very dependent on wind conditions at high speed.

I bought my user manual from Renault, they should be able to supply one.

I've got 16" wheels on mine, as Renault fitted to the late cars. These give much sharper steering and I would consider 17" if I change them again (my company sells wheels...)

I nearly bought an XM before the Espace. I had a CX GTi Turbo 2 at the time but it was too small for our 3 children.

We've driven as far as Spain in the Espace fully laden with kids bikes inside. On the fast motorways around the Mediterranean it was brilliant.
At 100mph in 35C heat both the fans come on and it gets quite noisey!

Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on February 21, 2005, 01:13:20 pm

Yes I can scan the manual if you can't get one. I also have the stereo manual which is separate.

The one thing I find really dumb on the automatic is the controls:

To disable 1st gear you press a button by the driver's door, to disable 4th gear you press a button at the end of the gerachange lever. It's all electronic anyway so why not have all the controls in one place!


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 21, 2005, 01:48:35 pm
Hello Will,

Please, if you could scan the manual(s) it would be great as I would like to have some information when I finally go to buy it (in a couple days, I hope :D !), just in case I am missing anything to check (and, of course, it will be fine to use the car)

BTW, I saw it has a Pioneer CD-changer in the boot... but don't know if that means it will have 6 or 4 speakers... do you know?. I did not check that :(!

On another topic, asking price is 11.500€ , registered to me. It has 85.000km. Is this reasonable?

Thanks a lot and best regards,

JOSE


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on February 21, 2005, 03:00:26 pm
Hi Jose

There are 6 speakers, 2 on the dash, 1 in each door. The sound quality is very good.  The CD changers are very expensive and only available from Renault so I hope yours works OK.

Values vary from country to country and I don't know where you are, but that price would be good in the UK.

Regards  Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 21, 2005, 05:42:40 pm
Hello Will,

Thanks for your info!. I should sound pretty dummy ;) but, well, I am really new to Espace!. Ask me about XM  ;D!

Ok about the speakers; I powered on the radio when I was checking the car but as I was talking with the seller, it was just a fast check and don't know if CD changer will work. It seemed in good physical condition, but, being myself an electronics minded guy, I know that does not mean a lot!

BTW, I am in Spain so, if price is good for UK, it should be good here (as a sample, XMs are almost trash in UK but still valuable, if little, here; mine was 1800 Euro back in February 2002, and it is a 1992 unit). I know Espace keeps depreciation pretty well so a 36.000 Euro unit almost 6 years later could be worth 12.000 Euro.

Please, if you have some time, let me know about the manual. I am eager to do the final check in a couple days and, if all is OK, will buy it :D

Thanks!!!

JOSE

http://jvgavila.com

Hi Jose

There are 6 speakers, 2 on the dash, 1 in each door. The sound quality is very good.  The CD changers are very expensive and only available from Renault so I hope yours works OK.

Values vary from country to country and I don't know where you are, but that price would be good in the UK.

Regards  Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on February 22, 2005, 10:49:41 am
Hi Jose

As you haven't bought it yet a couple of important points:

The automatic box is generally regarded as needing a full rebuild at 80,000Km. Mine is past 100,000Km now but I know it will need doing eventually.

The (long-life) spark plugs need changing at 110,000km and I guess the timing belt is similar.

All the above jobs are difficult to to do and I think require taking the whole front off the car and lowering the engine. So you should find out if any or all of this work has been carried out yet.

Regards


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 22, 2005, 01:32:56 pm
Hi Will,

Glups!!!. No, I am pretty sure none of them has been done, as current owner has the Espace since it was 58.000km and he told me, literally, he had not changed the belt as it was due at 120.000km (and, judging by his comments, if auto box has not got broken yet, he for sure has not done any maintenance or repair!)

So, summing up, I knew I should change soon timing belt. Now I know autobox is about to expire :( . BTW, how much is the timing belt change?

Thanks for all and best regards,

JOSE

Hi Jose

As you haven't bought it yet a couple of important points:

The automatic box is generally regarded as needing a full rebuild at 80,000Km. Mine is past 100,000Km now but I know it will need doing eventually.

The (long-life) spark plugs need changing at 110,000km and I guess the timing belt is similar.

All the above jobs are difficult to to do and I think require taking the whole front off the car and lowering the engine. So you should find out if any or all of this work has been carried out yet.

Regards


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on February 22, 2005, 03:05:33 pm
Hi Jose

I don't know what Spanish labour rates are like but my guess is that it would need to go to a Renault specialist as it is very difficult to work on - just look under the bonnet... I believe the auto box could cost 1500 euros to rebuild, the major service 1000 euros.

Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 22, 2005, 07:33:54 pm
Hello Will,

Ok about the costs. Yes, here in Spain labour is also expensive... Well, I hope it will take at least some time to need the major service!

I have just got a call from seller. Espace is ready (he needed to change the exhaust last box in order to get it through the MOT and his garage has done that)

So, please, is there any way you could scan most important parts of the User's Manual?. Rest could be done at a later date, no problem. I will go tomorrow with the money on hand and it is my last chance to find anything which does not work fine!

Please, let me know.

Best regards,

JOSE

Hi Jose

I don't know what Spanish labour rates are like but my guess is that it would need to go to a Renault specialist as it is very difficult to work on - just look under the bonnet... I believe the auto box could cost 1500 euros to rebuild, the major service 1000 euros.

Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on February 23, 2005, 09:43:45 pm
Hi Jose

Sorry, I'm just too busy to scan the manual at present. But most of the controls are intuitive

Has it got a remote control for the stereo? Some of the functions cannot be accessed without it.

Regards   Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 23, 2005, 10:19:10 pm
Hello Will,

Well, I did it!. Car is already in my garage :)!. BTW, 10.7 liters /100km on first 60km trip...

Ok about the lack of time. A common disease ;)!!!

Please, could you explain me a bit about the autobox?. I am not sure about the 3 2 1 positions and their meaning. Thanks!

Yes, remote should be there... but, at this moment, don't know where ??? (need to check in the car, as seller showed it to me first day I saw the car). Which functions can't be accessed directly?

Regards,

JOSE

Hi Jose

Sorry, I'm just too busy to scan the manual at present. But most of the controls are intuitive

Has it got a remote control for the stereo? Some of the functions cannot be accessed without it.

Regards   Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on February 24, 2005, 12:59:52 am
Congratulations Jose!

The autobox is basically a 4 speed. Position  D allows use of all 4 gears, 3 locks out 4, 2 locks out 3 and 4 etc. but those positions are generally only used for towing. There is also a D2 position which I never use and can't remember its purpose...

but as I said there are some other options too:

The 'snow' switch between the steering column and the door locks out 1st gear and I always drive with this in - the torque convertor does a better job of low speeds than 1st gear and perhaps it makes it like an American V8 to drive. I think this position also raises the shift up speed through the gears but I'm not sure.

You can also lock out 4th on the end of the gearchange wand. This is slightly more effective than using kickdown to accelerate fast.

regards  Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 24, 2005, 08:03:59 am
Hi Will,

Thanks for your info and good wishes :) !!!

Ok about autobox. It seems to work fine but I found one thing which was not too clear... close to my home there is an steep hill and, due to speed bumps, maximum speed is about 25km/h. Would you change to '1' or '2' for this kind of road?. I found the car had not too clear how to manage it (or perhaps it was my fault; will check again today on return home)

About the radio remote, I have located it :)!. And it works. Now I need to learn to use it as I have had no time yet to do so. Any hint welcomed in case there are hidden options.

Regards,

JOSE

Congratulations Jose!

The autobox is basically a 4 speed. Position  D allows use of all 4 gears, 3 locks out 4, 2 locks out 3 and 4 etc. but those positions are generally only used for towing. There is also a D2 position which I never use and can't remember its purpose...

but as I said there are some other options too:

The 'snow' switch between the steering column and the door locks out 1st gear and I always drive with this in - the torque convertor does a better job of low speeds than 1st gear and perhaps it makes it like an American V8 to drive. I think this position also raises the shift up speed through the gears but I'm not sure.

You can also lock out 4th on the end of the gearchange wand. This is slightly more effective than using kickdown to accelerate fast.

regards  Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on February 24, 2005, 10:25:39 am
Hi Jose

I've never used any of the positions on the lever except P N R D. The autobox doesn't always get it right so I guess you could use 1 or 2 to hold it for a steep hill.

Although I always use the snow position I have been caught out just occasionally needing 1st on very steep hills.

 But, as with any automatic, you do use the brakes a lot more than with a manual. The brake pads last about 70,000Km so it's not a problem.

I'll see if I can scan the radio controls for you.

Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 24, 2005, 01:26:41 pm
Hello Will,

Thanks for your info!

Ok about the radio manual. It would be a real plus!

Regards,

JOSE

Hi Jose

I've never used any of the positions on the lever except P N R D. The autobox doesn't always get it right so I guess you could use 1 or 2 to hold it for a steep hill.

Although I always use the snow position I have been caught out just occasionally needing 1st on very steep hills.

 But, as with any automatic, you do use the brakes a lot more than with a manual. The brake pads last about 70,000Km so it's not a problem.

I'll see if I can scan the radio controls for you.

Will


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on February 27, 2005, 12:22:51 pm
Here you have a picture of my recently bought Espace

(http://jvgavila.com/espace.jpg)

Regards,

JOSE


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Anders Dinsen on March 08, 2005, 10:27:49 pm
Congratulations!! Very nice indeed!


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: José V. Gavilá on March 08, 2005, 10:32:55 pm
Congratulations!! Very nice indeed!


Thanks!. I have done about 700km with it and it is working just fine (it is nice to have some hidden power ;) ) except for some coolant consumption :( . It seems main radiator has a problem!. Do you know if replacement needs front removal?

Best regards,

JOSE


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Anders Dinsen on November 11, 2005, 05:33:10 pm
To disable 1st gear you press a button by the driver's door, to disable 4th gear you press a button at the end of the gerachange lever. It's all electronic anyway so why not have all the controls in one place!

I think tradition and the top gear disable button is something that you hit while driving - whereas the snow-button is one that is meant to be operated only when starting or hitting snow.

We never use the snow button, but there is some jerkyness when cornering - sometimes it picks a high gear in a low speed corner, but when I am exiting the corner, then it shifts down. Since I'm using the accelerator then, the down shift is rather hard.

/Anders


Title: Re:Any Espace V6 24V user around?
Post by: Will Falconer on November 11, 2005, 09:20:12 pm
To disable 1st gear you press a button by the driver's door, to disable 4th gear you press a button at the end of the gerachange lever. It's all electronic anyway so why not have all the controls in one place!

I think tradition and the top gear disable button is something that you hit while driving - whereas the snow-button is one that is meant to be operated only when starting or hitting snow.

We never use the snow button, but there is some jerkyness when cornering - sometimes it picks a high gear in a low speed corner, but when I am exiting the corner, then it shifts down. Since I'm using the accelerator then, the down shift is rather hard.

/Anders

Yes that's exactly why I use the snow button - the box is jerky in first gear. I've been using it permanently for  about 4 years now with no problem. I only turn it off if I 'm starting up a steep hill.