MatraSport Forum

Hi everybody

Has anybody tried to renovate the motor for the electric window ?
Or is the easiest to by a new ?

/Henrik

mmm,gotta do this myself.i have heard that its best to strip and remove all the old grease and obviously check the motor.maybe theres a chaep replacement motor that fits ???

the mechanism is specific but the engine is similar to that of Renault 9

the mechanism of origin and the engine of origin are not available any more into new

I had the motor apart today - see attached pictures I took on the kitchen table (where else to do main repairs :-))

The sinner is the bearing in the bottom - it was complety 'welded' to the shaft of the rotor.

Second picture it is removed.
Below in housing there is a spring/ring that locks the bearing.
I have to find to get this out, to fasten the bearing again.

/Henrik

Very insteresting. Is there any space to fit a small ball bearing down there?

Ball bearing for a window motor?... sounds a bit like "over kill" to me ;)

If you mess it up and ruin the motor (like I almost certainly would :D ) I belive they are lifted straight from a Talbot Tagora... might help if you end up looking for a new one.

Hi Henrik, I had the same problem, and I did cut off the small end off the housing and made a new bearing off brass,
it works fine for a ½ year now.

 :) Finn

But they are just a few kr... nothing compared to the cost of my labor ;)

Ball bearings are only for torque forces, but in this case all forces are in the axiel direction.
The weight of the window is transferred to the axel (the gearbox has no bearings for this)

There is a small plastic piece in the end of the rotor axel - this takes all the forces to outer chasis of the motor.

I have cut a little in the photos, so you can see better.

Hi Finn

Do you happen to have som photos ?
I might do the same here.

/Henrik

And what about the Simca 1308/Talbot 1510/Solara motors??? Are the exchangeable?

Correct though most ball bearings can take axial forces by design.

Hello Henrik, sorry for the delay, I have no photos, but I have a simple sketch drawn with a shaking hand  ;)
hope that can be a help to you.

(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb85/fbaltzer/Bearing.jpg?t=1208680991)

- Finn

Nice drawing, thanks for sharing it!

The three M3 holes are for screws pushed into the remaining part of the motor housing, I suppose. To attach the new bearing?

Simple, and probably useful to others. What will they cost a piece ;) ?

- Anders

Hi Finn

Thanks for  the drawing !
It's a nice and easy solution, I think.

I had all parts out, except the locking ring.
To solve it, I drilled a small hole Ø3 in the angled side of the house.
After this, I could get the ring out and also reuse it.

see photo attached.

/Henrik

I think it is very usefull to have central locking system
(after all, there is a long distance over the middle seat each time your girlfriend rides along  ;D)

So, while everything is out of the doors, I tried to install a simple standard servo from NMD.
I took some pictures, see attached:

/Henrik

So you have fabricated a new brass bearing similar to the original one, or...?

No, I just cleaned the rotor for rust and reused the original bearing, adding a little ceramic grease.
The problem was that the locking ring couldn't get out without special tools.

Hello Maxderoswell.

From what I can see, it looks like the 405 has a double system, in which you can lock both doors from both sides. the aftermarked sets like the one you showed, often has a master(5 wires) for the drivers side and a slave(2 wire) for the passenger side. I just brought an aftermarked set myself, can post the diagram if needed.

Hello,

the problem is solved, the complete wiring is placed into mumu.

Just to finish the 2 doors wiring (looking + audio) into one.

Mathieu

Good to hear.
I'm doing the same job myself now, hav installed the two actuators, but not the wiring yet. I'm also having problems with the passengerside window mechanism.... And have no idea where to start.

What king of actuators ?

Mathieu

This set. It looks like its identical to the one maxderoswell showed.
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5006/bildee.jpg)

It's a current assembly.

If somebody have the original central loocking door system, is it possible to said me where the driver door motor takes his power.

Directly on the fuse board ?

Mathieu

Yes on the backup-tension 3 fusenumber F4 or F5 are usable according to the manual.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1PI6hE-JCKY/T-DyfiMqvVI/AAAAAAAAD4I/t0Fo24b3kZc/s800/Fusepanel.jpg)

That diagram was super Oetker!

Now if only I could understand french...

Hello,

this is my new wiring diagram.

In these one, there are a blue box (delay for roof light), universal HF locking kit (control the original 405 wiring without infrared modul replace by a switch).

Mathieu

The window motor is made by Rockwell (it has their logo on it) who made window motors for lots of cars.  I have seen this same motor fitted to many cars including various Renault and Mercedes of a similar age.  I don't think you can get the motor easily anymore, but there are probably a lot of second hand ones around.

Often the reason the motors go slow or stop is the bottom bearing bush seizes on the armature shaft.  You can often dismantle the motor, clean the bush and lubricate it and get the motor working again.  I have done this a number of times.  Why does it seize?  If you check the motor it has two holes in the casing near the bottom (to let water out) and the upper hole should have a plastic plug in it.  When the motor is fitted the other way up, the plug should be moved from one hole to the other so the open hole is always at the bottom.  Sometimes the plug is at the bottom and so the motor fills with water...


When I saw the title of this thread and read the first posting it was about the window motors.  After I posted my reply I see someone has 'hi-jacked the thread and changed the thread.  I wish people wouldn't do that.  Please start another thread if you want to talk about something different...

Regarding the central locking, yes all 1983 cars which had factory fitted 'central' locking, only had a master control on the drivers door and a slave on the passenger door.  Normally both front doors would have master units and if you fit a third party locking system this is what you fit - a master on both doors so no matter which you operate it operates the other side.  As for wiring, it has to be connected to the permanent 'live' circuit non-fused - not much point if it blows a fuse and then won't operate because the key system has broken or seized, or especially if you have removed the manual key system. (yes I have seen a Murena with no door manual key locks and only electric locking and a remote ultra-sonic activator).

One final warning, if you go to remote activation then make sure your key locks are cleaned, adjusted and well greased, because once you start using remote activation it could be years before you ever use the locks again.  And if the remote fails you want to know that the manual key locks will still work to get you in!

Roy