MatraSport Forum

Hello everybody.

New norwegian to the forum.

I'm considering buying b-havers Murena here in Norway. Just the usual wife problem and some moral dilemmas to...

Hello, welcome! And we are looking forward to pics of Your Matra  ;)

Welcome

Thanx. i¨m still thinking about buying the car, but there is some work that needs to be done on it. B-havers has just changed the faulty water pump, but it is somewhat unclear if the engine has been driven without cooling. The fuelpump also needs to be replaced, so i¨m also considering converting to an electric pump rather than fitting a "normal" one. Also, there is somewhat of a problem with "something" from what I could tell it seems to be either the carb or something with the ignition, probably rotor/sparkwire/sparkplugs. The headlights have a little problem, but probably nothing too serious. also seems to be needing a new temp.gauge.

Is 5000euros for this car somewhat to or what do you think? Its a 83mod 2,2 for those of you who havent seen it in here yet.

Nothing of what you mention sounds bad at all. It probably just needs a good bit of TLC on these things. I know Bjorn-Anders has run the car some miles after fitting the new water pump, and there seems to be no traces of water in the oil or water leak - that indicates that the head is ok, despite the leaking pump. It doesn't have to harm the engine that the pump has fails, but sometimes it does.

Car prices in norway are higher than the rest of Europe (except Denmark, of course!), so in light of that I don't think 5 kEUR sounds unreasonable. You can get them cheaper down in Germany if you are willing to do a lot of work on them, but a good one is sometimes more expensive. 

I've got a used mechanical pump which didn't leak when I removed it - you can have that so you can get running without too much fuss before you convert to an electrical. As for the carb/ignition problem - fix the vacuum to the headlights first - it could be the problem. A new coil, plug leads, dizzy cap, rotor, and plugs is never wasted money. Temp gauge could likely be a wiring problem - the instruments rarely fail.

I understand your considerations, but hope you will end up deciding to buy the car. As you can read from this forum, the Murena is a great car. Some use them daily (including myself), others keep them only for a hobby. Either way they are great fun! :D

He he, I do think the prices are even higher here then in Danmark Anders.... Seem to be some promblem with the relays, since only the light only works on full. Yes it would probably have started to leak already it there was a problem, so seems like it have been saved in time. Have anybody tried or seen an in-tank el.pump? It could be fun to try to convert it to an injection some time later. Wasn't the temp.gauge, seems like sender/wire. Wife hates the brown interior though, can't say it's the prettiest i have seen myself either...

A quick clean of the relay contacts under the fusebox should restore the lights.

Well, looks like DPO (damn previous owner) has been playing around with something in there.... Not Bjørn-Anders ofcourse...

No it won't!  You have not seen the modification this car has.  The headlight wiring has been completely changed from standard, so first he has to find out exactly what the new wiring is, then work out why it doesn't work.

Roy.

What, to hell, is this???  :o :o :o

Ah yes, so I see. It worked for me anyway!

Could any of you "oldboys" (Anders&Roy perhaps) put down what can be done to increase the Murenas HP? I think others also would benefit from this list to. preferably in order from cheap mod to the more expensive, Or from simple to the more difficult. Or anybody else that have something to contribute.

Regards  Per Anders

Hmm, easiest solution is probably to fit a faster cam, e.g. a Holbay fast road cam like the one I have. It performs quite well on an otherwise unmodified car and gives it a very nice power increase from 3000 rpm up without any real trouble. I'm sure Roy will agree with me as I'm more or less just quoting his knowledge! I think the S-cam would also work well on the standard carb.

Fuel injection won't give you much, at least not compared to the cost.

Porting and blue printing is also very expensive and you should still work on the cam to gain a real improvement.

I don't know who sells the Holbay cam, but I'm sure Roy can help - or contact 'the source'. Politecnic lists a few options here: http://www.politecnic.com/piecesmoteur.htm

What about fitting a turbo? Dont know if there is to much compression in the engine to take it, but there is also a lot of job to fit the new cam in the engine too.... swapping for another engine is also a possibility, but somewhat rather costly an more troublesome....

Turbo will be a good deal more expensive as you'll need new exhaust, engine management etc. Potential is enormous, however, even on the 2.2 engine: Peugeot tuned that very engine block and head to more than 400 HP in the 505 turbo for rally versions.

Cam tuning with the Holbay cam is a bolt-on upgrade - you can't tune it any simpler and the power increase is excellent. With the Holbay you go from the stock 118 HP to 140 HP without any other changes to the engine.

Most people find that the Murena is a pretty fast car, one that can give you a lot of fun on winding roads (you have a lot of them in Norway) even without any kind of engine tuning. With the 2.2 you will enjoy low revs and lots of torque for a relatively light car. You can't compete at intersections with 3 litre Audi DTI's, but who can? But the Murena has appeal - I have in more than one instance found other drivers obviously interested in this little fast car - it's really unique. And you can fit two (girl?) friends in it!

I'll recommend the Holbay to anyone ready to work on their engine, but other than that, I personally don't think the Murena needs more power. Not for me, at least.

BTW: I think the Holbay will need a 4-in-1 manifold to perform, but many cars have these already. I don't know if yours/Björn Anders' car has.

Cheers,
Anders

Anders wrote
"Peugeot tuned that very engine block and head to more than 400 HP in the 505 turbo for rally versions".

Actualy the latest version the 505 Turbo used for track racing developed by Danielsen had 575 HP.

Otherwise I agree with Anders: Install aother cam. There are several possibilities S-cam, 152 CV cam, Maxi-Route or Holbay.
But a new cam is not cheap. 10 years ago I paid more than 6000 DKK for a 152 CV cam. Including a new carburator, stainless 4-in-1 exhaust the total invoice for parts was 16.000 DKK.
(my wife do not read the Matra forum)

Hans

575 HP.... that's a LOT!  8)

It looks like Politecnic is a bit cheaper and lists a hot cam at around 650 EUR including french VAT, but you'll need new followers of course, and my french isn't good enough to spot them in their price list... ;) oh, yes... "culbuteurs" I don't know what the price of the Holbay is. I think Politecnic may also be able to reground a cam profile.

My wife don't read the forum either, but she checks the bank account!  :o

Regarding S-cam: There is actualy a machine shop somwhere in Denmark that has the "model" to grind a S-profile on a standard cam.

Hans

Yes, seems like turbo has potensiale, but also lots of work... Anders, how many hours work will it be to change the cam? How about changing carbs? from what i could tell, converting to injection doesnt give any boost in hp.


Porting/changing inlet/oulet manifold without changing cam, does that improve anything?

Too much winding roads if you ask me..... At least in the Opel stationwagon....

Sidedraughths (Weber or Dellorto's) won't give you much on the torque, but should give you something on the top - but is that what you need? I wouldn't start tuning on the standard cam, however. It's only 256 degrees period (inlet) so if you want increased volumetric efficiency (i.e. power/litre) with that, I think you will need to blow the air into the cylinder using a super charger or turbo.

The S-cam has 279 degrees of inlet period. That's a decent tuning cam, but the Holbay is up to 296 and 76 degrees of overlap. This cam should have a lot of potential, but seen from the point of view of the DIY tuner on a budget, it's an excellent choice because it runs so well on the unmodified engine. Idle is rough of course, but not badly, and it works well even on the standard induction (single carb and standard manifold) and on an unported head. The exhaust is probably more important, as the rapidly moving exhaust gasses help start the induction early due to the overlap. A camshaft tuning book I have says that 290+ degrees are chosen when mid-range power is needed, which is just what we want on a road going Murena - and I can confirm that it does enhance the mid-range. The engine runs smoothly, but not aggressively at 1500-2500 rpm, but from 3000 it really starts to work, and at 3500 it's *very* torquey and revs freely past 6000+ rpm.

If I need a really fast start, I have to rev it up to 4500 in 1st. Remember the Murena has a lot of weight on the rear wheels, and the grip will rapidly increase with acceleration - so it's just very difficult to spin the wheels. This is nothing like your daily front wheel driver!! Most of the time, however, I enjoy an easy start in 1st, but floor it when it reaches 3000 rpm in 2nd. The sound and acceleration usually causes my smile to extend all the way to my ears! :D


Probably not, no.


 ::)

I have ONE thing to say: When you buy the Murena you will start LOVING the winding roads! Even those with speed limits. There's just SO much fun in that car.

Where can I subscribe this? ;)

You don't necessarily need more power to enjoy a Murena, - a winding road is enough:

http://www.matrasport.dk/Cars/Murena/Stories/ls_twisty_roads01.html

The little I have been driving in Norway tells me that you have some spectacular roads - and since you are burdened with similar speed-limits as in Denmark, the trick is to get a sporty car that doesn't need to be going at 200+ km/h to feel alive - and the Murena is just that.

/Lennart

Hmm, now there is a book a could feast my eyes on.... Which book is this Anders, and is it hard to come by?

Razor: If legislations in your country allow it, and you have the technical knowlage, go for a turbo!.
the 505 turbo engine is easy to fit, and will give you 180-200hp on standard parts without much fuss.

If you want to use the engine you already have, you can use some of the parts from the 505 anyway, especially the inlet, and exhaust manifolds are usefull.
The 9,45:1 cr of the standard 2.2 should be able to cope with some mild boost if properly set up and intercooled.
Look in the vault.. theres an artichle about a turbo murena... it uses the standard parts (even the carb.. though re-jetted)

If you want 160+ hp in a street murena.. a turbo (in my mind) is the only practical way to go.
 

Veloce publishing, SpeedPro Series: How to choose camshafts & time them for maximum power. Author: Des Hammil. The guy has written a whole range of books on engine tuning. I've bought mine from Amazon.co.uk

 :'( :'( :'(

BAD NEWS!!

Went to look at the car on saturday, and got a mail from him today that the car was now sold. To bad, cause the car was in EXCELLENT condition, paint almost perfect, and ultra low milage.

Will be sad many days now.... :'(  :'(  :'(

Somebody was faster... But luckily there is still a lot of opportunities to buy a Murena, so next time You must be faster  ;)

yes, had some trouble getting the cash, and that was a once in a lifetime offer i think, considering the state of the car and the cost. have seen some others, but with atleast 2x the distance traveled, 2x the price and all to offen 2x the price in import tax  :o

Well, people, you are now looking at the new owner of a golden 83 model Murena :D :D
Just got of the phone with the man to confirm the buy.

Congratiulations, and welcome to the happy few that has one.
Any pics yet?

Great!

Pictures?
1,6 or 2,2?
Condition?

And You have to change Your subscribe  ;)

2.2 wouldn't take anything less  ;D

Low milage 58000km

Cost me 4050 euros ;)

Newly replaced waterpump and fanbelt

Some small things to do on it, headlight relays, carb trouble/vacuum tube, little prob with the temp, gauge is ok, anders has supplied new sender but still noe reaction, new fuelpump(PO has bought already!)

Pictures are not mine, but from previous owner, will take new ones as soon as i have the car home.

VERY nice and those coloured side stickers ARE original accesories :o I think, so BIG CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Looks good.
Temp problem? did you check the small watertank for bubbling when running?
Always look out when a 2.2 runs hot, can be a expencive problem.

No, haven't gotten the car home yet.
Why would it be bubbling?
Cracking in the top you mean?

yes, as you stated the waterpump is replaced for a reason.
Engine could have been hot.
Be carefull and control for bubbling, also when the car reaches working  temperature.
I have seen more ten 8 Murena's before buying one and one of them had this problem.
I didn't buy because of that.
Also check for rust at the rear trailing arms with a hammer and a centerpoint.
Hit it hard.
If its get deformed let the car go, or you must be a experienced welder.

(http://i19.tinypic.com/89heqlj.jpg)

(http://i3.tinypic.com/6ouxk41.jpg)

They may be original but I would have them removed as soon as I got home >:(
Nice looking car though and even the velour looks in reasonable order.  Mine looked like a dog had slept in the front seat for a year...and eaten half the buttons :)

Congratulations on the purchase! I didn't know that stickers like those were available as an option, but they sure have that 80's look. I like them. This is a good car. It will give you fun - and challenges ;)

I know this car has a reasonably well documented history and is in a reasonably good state. Its water pump had failed (I have the remains and the bearing was all crushed out), but the engine was probably not overheated. I haven't heard of any boiling in it. The previous owner has also confirmed that there are no signs of craking in the head - yet, at least. We never know what may happen, and the head hasn't been off (of course). Water pump was replaced a few months ago by the previous owner. I think the trailing arms are also in a decent shape, but probably not as pretty as your's, Oetker (even mine aren't - and not it's not my money-arms trailing after me when I walk, I'm talking about! :D )

- Anders

Well in that case, You have to go all Murenas with original arms, because after 25 years it couldn't be perfect  ;)



 Yes, there were lot of motives and colours. There was one silver 2,2 for sale, here in CZ, imported from Switzerland, which had different ones, also on the front bonnet, they were in red / black combination, and it was looking nice. I think that accesories like this is VERY RARE in these days, and it is making the car different by really right way.

 Razor: if You think about removing them, please make some pictures before it and send them to me, thank You.

quote
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 and it was looking nice.
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I like them to, very retro.
If I could find them for a red car I would fit it no doubt.
My mini's always had that kind of stuff, including the pop art roof (black/white chess-board)

Will take MANY pictures when I get the car back home. Anders, do you know if the temp sender you sent Bjørn-Anders is ok? He had checked the gauge, and it worked when he grounded it, so seems to be the sender or wiring.

Will have the stickers on for now, gone see what I will do about the "stairs" on the back window. known as a "laksetrapp" in norwegian.

Would have been fun trying to track the car al the way back, have owners and papers on the car in all years in Norway. Been here since 98 I think it was. So if there are any sweds or germans here, please let me know.

So, it is done!!

Just picked the car up last night, haven't had the time to take many pictures yet, but more will come soon

Looks ok, a bit TLC needed as I see at first sight, but wich Murena isn't.
Is the engine running ok now?
Hope you will enjoy driving and maintaning it.
Good luck with the car.

Yes some, but it isn't that bad, it was cold at home this morning, so there is a bit of frost on it, and some roaddirt after the transport, so the paint is rather glossy still.

But what i do need is the cover for one of the fog lights(have the other one)

Looking REALLY GOOOOD!!! I love those stickers  :o :o :o

Congratulations on getting it home!
It looks good in your driveway! :)
I like the paintwork and stickers too...