MatraSport Forum

I had a look at this page,  and was wondering if it could be possible to replace the murenas brake with something like this.

But, then we need some  dimensions, like mounting holes etc.

 http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Start%20Calipers.htm  (http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/Start%20Calipers.htm)

Theo at the dutch forum is busy with this.

http://oscar.messageboard.nl/7101/viewtopic.php?t=550

Don't underestemate it, its not a simple job.

But that was with Porsche calipers, these come in many size and mounts and would hopefully fit without too much effort(as if....)

Its not a standard job.
Space behind the wheels is limmited, and the standard rear calipers are Bagheera and Murena only.
You also have to count in the diameter of the cilinders and for the rear a variable regulator is needed to adjust the balance.
Also the size of the reardisk at a 2.2 is 260 mm, and mounting of the caliper is far away from the outside of the disk.
Its not a buy at Halford job.
Till now nobody came up with something better then the standard as far as I know.

Hmm.. thought the caliper was a pug or talbot....  :-[

That could make things a little worse...

I can only agree. 4 times a year I am on the race circuit with my Murena and its brakes are really good enough for this car. No overheating and accurate power. Don't forget that front part of the car is very light so there is no need to have huge, ventiled brakes...

Jespers v6 Murena has custom brakes I think.
But I agree with Michael on this one...
I too wanted to .. mostly to get ventilated front rotors.... but "if it ain't broken... don't try to fix it"...
As Roy has pointed out to me once," a Murena will happily lock up all four wheels in the dry... on ANY surface...". and fading doesn't seem to be a problem.

You should also consider why the murena has discs at all four wheels.. and why the rear rotors are not the same used on a 2..2 as on the 1.6...The extra weight of the bigger engine dictated the larger rotors to hold the extra
heat
So..Midengine layout with 35/65 (at best) weight distribution,unequal tracking, different tire widths front and rear..

Do you really want to experiment with a brake set up that has clearly taken some considerable considerations from Matra to get right in the first place?

Black/green stuff(tm) pads and maybe some x-drilled rotors are as far as Im gonna go.
 

Oh, thought fading and weak brakes indeed was a problem on the Murena.....
Thats why i had plans of upgrading the brakes...

Anders, how is it with the increased HPs and brakes then?

The few problems that I have heard of, has been to do with poor quality brake pads..
If you ask around you will probably find that most people use the "BlackStuff or GreenStuff (tm)" pads, with standard rotors.. and most will agree that it makes a HUGE difference.

(ok I know you asked Anders...but)..
I guess that the standard brakes are adequate up to about 180hp..... and frankly you dont want much more power than that in a car this old.
Matras own 2.2 16v prototype had about that much.. and as far as I know, they didn't plan any modifications of the brakes.

didnt saab had a caliper at front with handbrake on it?  and solid discs?  saab 900 earlier then 87?

Indeed, brakepower is sufficient as I already tried out.
The only thing that bothers me is the rattle and sticking problem at the rear, wich comes back regulary because of oxidation between alu and iron.
There are possebillity's to change I think, but have to make the diameter of the disk smaller, or design another.
Not realy my daily job, so if it ever will happen is the question. :-\

And I have also heard from some that changing to steelbraided  brakehoses removes some of the spoonginess in the pedalmotion. Because they flex less than regular ones.

Can anyone verify or discredit this...?

Are you sure the rattle isn't just missing or wrongly placed springs to hold the pads in place ? - that is a very common cause of rattle, especially at the rear, where gravity tends to work agains us/the pads.

/Lennart

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Are you sure the rattle isn't just missing or wrongly placed springs to hold the pads in place.
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Everything is mounted as it should.
I ordered a new mounting kit with al the bits and pieces and hope that it will stop the rattle.
The other side thats sticking, well we know the problem.
My disks are also a bit scruffy but in the limits.

Ahhh..
My car has those braided hoses fitted... and has had them since I bought it.. along with blackstuff pads .. ... so maybe the "standard" brakes can be a bit tricky... but ... with those two mods... I have never felt the brakes to be any different from other cars at all .. and have never given it much thought.. apart from wanting ventilated front rotors instead of the standard "solid" ones.... that... as mentioned earlier are quite adequate.

I am not sure that braided steel brakehoses does much on a road car where the brake fluid hopefully shouldn't get so hot that the hoses will become soft.
   

I think most would agree that Matra did a good job with the brakes for a small mid-engined car with no abs (just think what a mess Lancia made of the Mk1 Monte Carlo).  The only real problem is the maintenance of the rear calipers.

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I think most would agree that Matra did a good job with the brakes for a small mid-engined car .
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Agreed, fading wil only happen if you come down from a alp with a nerveus rightfoot not using enginebraking at all.
I don't want to do that with a 25 year old car.
If you want that kind excitement, buy a recent Porsche.
The Murena is old timer now, and I think its time to treath the car like that.
I know that is difficult because the car ask to drive it sharp.
I drive it in a way to keep it in one piece....but sometimes .........

Not here In Denmark!!!!
Its not uncommon to have 20 year old cars (or more) in daily service!.
My Murena is my only car... and is being drive just as I would any other car... 

I know an airplane engineer in Australia fitted ventilated discs from a Ford Sierra (afair) on his Bagheera (which he btw converted to RHD) - and the pictures I saw were very impressive.

However nice that could be, I think you would only really need them if you took your car for track-days ... Having driven very enthusiastically around a track for 5-6 laps, saw my brakes fade - but then a cool-down lap restored order.

But I doubt you'd ever need this much stopping power on normal roads - but then again, people drive like maniacs in your part of the country,. I've heard :-)

My car has EBC GreenStuff pads, and that was a revelation - a subjective, rough guess says 25% more stopping power, which was completely unexpected. I only got the GreenStuff ones on as I heard they didn't produce the same black dust as normal pads, and I dismissed the claims about better braking power as the same marketing rubbish as fuel additives.  :)

/Lennart

We have to...... up here we have to go to work  every day... and since  nobody have given us any fancy new metro trains.....we are stuck with going by car.
But it seems all out tax money are spend on improving the roads around Copenhagen in stead of here where people actually NEED to have a car to get around!!... it's like this part of Denmark becomes invisible once you enters the the parliament building...

So... I dont WANT a turbo on my car.. i NEED one.... ;D

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Not here In Denmark!!!!
Its not uncommon to have 20 year old cars (or more) in daily service!.
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For that we have a old Nissan Sunny N13 (1987) and my wife a new Ka collection.
If the Nissan and the Murena brakes down at the same time we also have this.

(http://i29.tinypic.com/mskqy8.jpg)

Also 21 years old.
Wheels enough in here.
I prefere walking ;D

He he... Im restoring a Vespa sprint 150cc :)
One of my mates are fixing the rust in it while Im away.. so hopefully it will be ready for paint by the time I get home. :)

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Im restoring a Vespa sprint 150cc
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I remember renting those things from my holydays in Spain.
I had no driverslicense and showed the guy my creditcard and told him it was a dutch driverlicense :D
He accepted that.
The d*mn thing broke down every day.

Yahhh.. the Italians make their things stylish ... but they won't stand any kinda treatment!