MatraSport Forum

My '97 JE0A Espace 2.0 has no trip computer: the only thing the button on the right stalk does is reset the day trip counter.

I suspect (from browsing the internet for this subject) that the trip computer is there, but factory disabled.

Anybody any idea on how to enable it?

MarkN

Hi, Just boutght a 99 Alize 2.0-16v and this doesnt have it in either....

However, Ive been looking around, the dash and control box is listed as the same part number as higher models with the trip computer.  I aquired a copy of Renault's Dialsys from the bay (Ranaults service manuals), this shows how to program the dash when installing it.  There is an option for turning the trip computer on or off, along with settings for miles / km, oil level display delay and a load of other things.

The only downside is that you need the correct computer to plug into the espace to do this...  so im off to find a friendly dealer, or a Gunson/Krypton computer equivilent!!

The Dialsys manuals are well worth a few quid, basically everythings explained to the dumest of mechanics so its pretty straight forward to follow.

Regards, Matt

Hi Matt,

do you happen to have any scans about the programming from the Dialsys? I have exactly the same issue with my -02 JE Expression. I asked from a local dealer about the programming and according to them, it ts doable if the computer is present. They had experieced few cases where there was no computer present.

-T

Hi,

Looked for this again last night, but do you think i can find he page (the softwares not written that well)... however Ive pulled the pdf's relating to the dash, which is where i think I saw it, ill try and attach the pdf's here and a pic from the software with the titles of them, plus ill keep looking at home and see if i can come across it again.

There is an espace dash without the computer but its a very basic dash with no radio an no electronic warning computer display thingy.  

My guess from doing similar things to other cars is that the dash and wiring are there, the only thing that may be missing is a fuel flow meter which you may have to rip out of a scrap car to get the fuel data to work.  

PS the software is called Diologys not dialsys... hey, I was close!

Cheers,
M

more attached

mor attached

...more

anyone know a better way of attaching multiple files?

...

...

.....

Almost there

And the piccy of the titles.  Sorry if everyones had multiple emails over this, cant think of another way to post these files

M

Well you could always email them to me. The forum if ok for upload, but you canot be sure the attachments will survive, as the attachment-directory is automatically kept below a certain size by the software.


However, I have created a vault for such usefuil stuff :

   http://www.matrasport.dk/vault

When I come across data like your pdf's, I'll copy them to the vault, - but even better would be if you posted therm ,a dn dropped me an email, so I could salvage the files to the vault, for general use.

Regards

Lennart Sorth

So what was the outcome of this, Can you enable the trip computer ? I've got a diesel Grand RXE and we don't get either the trip or rev's that the equivelant petrol model has.  :(

Hi!
Does anyone know where to find the fuel flow meter?
My 2000 Espace 2.0 16v was originally sold without a computer. Some previous owner has then enabled it.
It works fine and shows all the functions, but functions regarding fuel consumption  all show 00.0.

A missing fuel flow meter would explain this, but where the is it supposed to be???

BTW: Activating the computer takes approx. 2 with the right tool(Renault CLIP)
Espace orignally came in 3 equipment levels, names E1, E2 and E3. The E1 does not have the computer.
Check the chassisnumber/VIN-plate located in the passenger/right hand doorpost to find out if your car has a computer.

I'm pretty sure there is no such thing. The fuel flow is calculated by the computer based on the control signal to the fuel injectors. This ought to be fairly accurate, but does not measure actual fuel flow. The only reason I can think of why your car does not show the fuel consumption is that the ECU does not transmit the values to the board computer. I don't think you can do anything about it.

- Anders 8)

Suspected that, but was hoping still.

-don't like the idea of not being able to do anything about it - will investigate further.....
Anyone have a schematic of the ECU??

I  know there is a signal in both the ECU(=BII ?) and the engine connection unit, named "fuel flow".
Believe this comes from the injectioncomputer (Siemens Sirius 32)?
Anyone have a schematic or pinout description for the Sirius?

Roger

Sorry to disappoint you, but this is not possible as the computer you need is not there.  You only get the full computer for all the trip functions if ordered at the beginning as a factory option.

Roy

Roy: Is your answer only for the 97 JEOA, or all models?

I've been participating in the same discussion at a french forum. The french claim that it is possible to avtivate the trip-computer, but for the fuel consumption functions the car has to have an air flow meter fitted!
This partially makes sense to me, as the airflow, combined with air-temperature and, possibly, air-humidity, -all take part in the equation when calculating the injector timing and thus the amount of fuel used.

As my car apparently does not have an airflowmeter(?), it must calculate injector timing in some other way, and is omitting to share fuel flow information with the BII?????

Anybody have more  information on this topic?

Will investigate further..

All models to my knowledge.  The computer is in the instrument panel, and the relevent computer is simply not there.  So whether it has an airflow meter or not is immaterial.  I have tried re-configuring an Espace myself just to see if it did anything and the answer was 'No'.

Roy

I think the fuel flow information always exists in the ECU, but a wiring might be missing OR possibly the software in BII does not handle ADAC functions (?) as i am sertain that is where the calculations are done and not in the instrument panel (BII are issued in several types B1, B2, B3 if i remember correct..).
When connecting CLIP to the injection computer i have noticed that it is possible to read flow details on live data.

To check if the flow signal actually is transmitted (wired) between the ECU and the BII box
(passenger compartment unit) you can measure the continuity between track 11 on the blue 12 pin connector on the BII box and ->
-> track 13 on the ECU connector if you have F3R engine
-> track 11 on the ECU connector if you have F4R engine
-> track 32 on the ECU connector if you have F9Q engine
-> track 15 on the ECU connector if you have L7X engine

Thank you Tom. Continuity-testing it is then.
When you say ECU-connector, do you mean the connector on the Sirius itself, or the one in the engine connection unit?
I agree that the ADAC-functions is performed by the BII, as I seem to remember reading this somewhere in Dialogys.  It would be interesting to know the differences between versions B1, B2 and B3.

Results from testing will be posted, both here and at www.renaultbiler.no !

Roger

Find the pin on the wiring connector (harness).

As a last resourse (if wiring is ok) i am sure you could connect a scope to the ECU flow signal output pin and see if you get some kind of signal there too.

The BII recieves the ADAC button stalk impuls signal so i am quite positive the instrument display is prepared for ADAC as long as it is the "new style" with a blue CAN connector on it.

If you look at your BII it should say what B number you have (eg: BII B3).

Next time you drop by we could also check ECU live data to see if we are able to read flow details there.

I also note that when picking parts on JE0N (roa) it never asks if ADAC is enabled - that is on ECU, Instrumentpanel and BII. This could be a replacement parts issue and factory assembled parts differ on this but i choose to believe not. Lets see what the wiring continuity results (roa).

On the early JE0A without CAN i would suspect a different issue...

Can someone explain me how to find if my Espace have the BII unit or not? What to look for exactly?
BTW Mine is an Oct. 1997 JE and it reads E2 (or maybe it was B2) for the equipment stage no the plate on the right door frame!
How is this diagnostic module, used to enable the trip computer called exactly?

Thanks in advane for any info

Your car is pre-CAN bus and does not have the BII unit. In your fuse box you have only fuses and relays and the diagnostic connector - no computer. I'm pretty sure you can't enable a trip computer in your car.

- Anders

I'm quiet sure that your '97 does not have a BII. The BII was introduced as a update in mid 98(according to Renaultbiler ) to simplify the wiring.

To be absolutely sure, check under the mat in the passengers footwell. Under the plastic cover(remove the two plastic screws ) you'll find either lots of relays, or a black plastic box -the BII.

Renaultbiler and I examined a couple of defective Espace displays today, and found that the older version (Before BII) was produced by JAEGER, and the newer by Valeo. Jaeger put their logo in front of the display, to the right if I remember correctly. Theory is that if your display has 'JAEGER' printed on it, you do not have a BII. No logo/name = Valeo = BII.
Would be nice if someone else checked their display to verify or bust this 'myth'

Back to what you asked about: As far as I know, without a BII, you either have a trip computer or you don't. No activation is possible.
But I might be wrong...

E2 is equipment stage, B2 is BII-version(BII B1, BII B2 etc.)

Ohh -you beat me to it, Dinsen .
-Must speed up my typing....

My late 98 2.2 DT has the JAEGER cluster and no BII if this helps.

Also pre BII cars has ADAC function on some, then it is handled by the display prosessor for sure. If i pick parts for an early JE0A for example it does not ask if it has ADAC or not - again this might indicate that replacement instruments are the same (all with ADAC possibility) but factory assembly differed in production (different part numbers then). I have a friend that just got a 98 JE0A without CAN - there is no ADAC active but the wiper stalk still has 3 dots on it. We will try to activate it with my clip as soon as i go for a visit but its 700km away so its not a drop-in to test it.

roa - what B version is your BII ? As you know i have a BII B2 lying around along with some instruments and i will bench this as soon as i get a BII adaptor. Then we will see if this B2 has ADAC or not -or if it can be activated.

BTW roa, Did you check the flow data wiring ?

That's simply for standardisation, at least in the U.K.  I have seen the stalk with the three dots on most if not all the vehicles here, whether they have ADAC or not.  It is cheaper to just have one stalk.  It's the same sort of thing with UCH and BII - although the various cars have different versions fitted at the factory depending on original specification, there is only one version available in aftersales, and you have to configure them correctly for the vehicle after fitting as a replacement (when the original has failed for some reason).  On one occasion, I tried to see if I could turn on more options than the original spec. had, specifically trying to add ADAC to an Espace that didn't have it, and it did not work, since there was more to it than just the BII.

Roy

My intensions with this statement was that at least the button is present as it would be useless to try ADAC without it (some cars does not have the 3 dotted stalk button). The car might still have ADAC option inside IF for instance the cluster have been previously replaced OR that the car for some reason has ADAC hardware/software present but not activated from factory. The technician replacing a cluster would in most cases print out the current configuration and use the same setup when replacing a new one (as he would when replacing a BII).

On pre CAN the instrument cluster holds all the instrument config while on CAN models BII handles all config exept hazard on/off by PLIP activation.

I will dive into the 97,98,99,00,07/00 and the 07/01 wiring book to see if there is different wiring as a result of ADAC or not but i suspect that they would not bother to issue different harness pieces on this only.

Just a small update from a JE0A 1998 pre CAN that i replaced the heater matrixes on. Plugged in the CLIP to see if any ADAC option existed in the instrument setup but on this one it was not an option. Unfortenately i did not have time to remove the dash-top to note part number on the instruments this time.

Regarding ADAC on BII vehicles - stumbled across a fault finding section in NT3171A 87/68 where it is described the loss of ADAC function, and if none of the measured checkponts (stalk and BII connections) fixes the problem one is to replace the BII unit - this means that it is infact the BII unit that handles the ADAC functions as we previously suspected.

"Myth confirmed" it seems, but shouldn't that be NT3385, Renaultbiler ?


Off topic regarding the same document:
-Found a funny fault finding section regarding loss of main beam headlights;
After no less than 12 checkpoints on a variety of fuses and connections, the last sentence says:

"If the fault persists, check the bulbs."  !!!!   

-No wonder Renault-garages are expensive ::)

You may be correct on the NT number as i looked through a pile of paper i once printed out, it might have been shuffeled around.

Funny that, bulb as a last resort  :)