MatraSport Forum

Hi,
it appears that my rear engine mounting has collapsed.
Does anyone know if this is the same as any other car?
Any help gratefully received.

Antony

do you have the 1.6 or 2.2?

2.2 could maybe share with peugeot 505?

2.2

Rubbers are available at Simon.

http://cgi.ebay.de/Talbot-Simca-Matra-Murena-2-2-Silentgummi-Motorlager_W0QQitemZ180169580362QQihZ008QQcategoryZ76010QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem

On the french forum there is a topic about it.

http://www.matra-passion.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=577

Brilliant, thanks Oetker. How come Simon charges 22euros and Matramagic want £111 for the same thing?

As far as I know, its new fabricated.
I think Matramagic has some old stock and can be more expencive because of originality.
Not sure on that.

Just checked Matramagic.
They are 20Pound a piece.
The one that cost 111 pound is the lower engine mount.

Eh? I even asked Will which one I needed!

Oh well, I bought one from Simon, thanks anyway.

The upper right engine mount needs 2 as far as I know.
Are we talking the same thing here?

I'm talking about the mount from the cylinder head to the rear of the car, right next to the fuel pump.

I checked with Simon and he said it was the one he was selling on ebay.

Right, we are talking the same thing ;)

The £20 one? It looks like a straightforward job to do, I'll take it to a garage to press it in though.

Yep straight forward.
You need a press.
A garage wil have it done in no time.

You dont need a press..
You can do it with a couple of wrench sockets and a workbench vice.

quote
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You dont need a press..
You can do it with a couple of wrench sockets and a workbench vice.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good idea  ;D

Well, I had a go at removing it, but I just cannot undo the bolt that goes to the head.
I tried removing the bracket that is attached to the head, but that won't come off without undoing the exhaust manifold and I just can't be bothered!

I'll have to get hold of a length of pipe for extra leverage, or leave the whole job to a garage when the new mounting arrives.

Unless anyone has any other ideas?

Antony

Put some penetrating oil on it and leave it for a day or 2.
If it still want come off make the bolt warm with a blowtorch and give the bolt a firm pull.
Hold a bucket of water nearby and put some plasterplate between the fuelpump and the job because of the heat.
Be carefull there.
Another solution is to cut the bolt at the top.

Right, got it off with the employment of a long bar. Just have to wait for the replacement to arrive.

Thanks.

Antony

The Murena 2.2 has two power unit mountings - one on the sump on the right and one on the gearbox on the left and a stabilizer bar at the cylinder head.

You say "the replacement to arrive" which sounds like you ordered one.  The stabilizer bar has two metallastic rubber bushes in it, about £20 each.  Did you order two bushes, as it is the bushes you get, not the complete assembly?  You simply replace the bushes in the bar.  It is very rare to need the actual engine or gearbox mountings which are much more expensive. (over £100 each I'm sure)

The £111 you quote from Matra Magic sounds like the engine mounting, not the stabilizer bar bushes.  The problem with Will is that you asked for a mounting so he quote for just that.  If you are talking about the steady bar that is not a mounting, it is a stabilizer bar.

To change the bushes yourself is fairly easy, you don't actually need a press.  You do need a solid vice or support, and a socket which is just slightly smaller outside diameter than the outside of the bush.  Use the socket as the tool to press the bushes out of the bar.

Roy

It is the stabilizer bar to the head that is the culprit.

I only ordered 1 bush, but after seeing how stiff it is, I will order another. I assume they are the same.

I may try to fit the bush myself, but I'm a bit cack-handed and it has been in there for 26 years!

Yes they are the same, and no it has not been in 26 years!  They simply do not last that long!!  This  is the most commonly replaced part - I always keep replacements in my garage.  The one nearest the exhaust goes first because of the heat and the other might last twice as long.  I would say they need changing about every 20,000 miles but it will vary depending on how the car is driven.  They must be kept in good condition so that the engine is not allowed to rock under torque loading, otherwise the exhaust will crack. (the exhaust cannot follow the engine movement)

If you don't fancy changing them yourself, simply take the stabilizer bar and new bushes into a garage and ask them to press the old ones out and new ones in, and that should not cost much.

Roy

Well, I replaced the stabiliser bar bush and it still rocked, rolled and banged. So I popped it down to the garage again, they had already fitted the bush for free, and on their ramp, it appeared that the lower engine mounting had lost 2 of its 3 bolts! One had sheared off into the sump and one was about to fall out. The garage very kindly sorted all this out for me, for free, and the engine is now solid in its place.

I'm not sure if the worn stabiliser bush caused the mounting bolts to become loose, or the loose bolts wore the stabiliser bush.

If one goes down, you can wait for the others to go if you don't take action.
Because of extra movement other mountings will have extra stress.

As I said before the stabiliser bushes wear out often, so that is normal.  I have not seen those engine mounting bolts come loose before, and I would suspect they have been out at some time and not fitted back with thread lock.  I do not consider them coming loose as normal.

However, once any mounting is worn or loose, it will put additional strain and wear on the others, plus other items owing to excess movement.  These are the sort of things you look for when doing a service.  A service is not not simply changing oil and filters, lubricating things and making adjustments. :-)

Roy

I'll share this photo then of the right side engine mount which has failed now on mine. I just found out today as I had the wheel off that side allow better access when doing oil change. I have supported the engine from below on the engine, so it looks like it's okay, but it isn't, and it drops down all the way to the metal when I let the jack off. I have noticed that there has been a lot of vibration lately!

Simon charges 118€ for the rubber. I have a spare engine mount which I got with some other stuff some while back on eBay, so I'll be using that. It looks like I'll need a very big vice to press the bush in?

The stabiliser bushes look perfect though, and the other side too.

(http://gallery.dinsen.net/d/3305-2/DSC_0549b.jpg)

quote Anders,
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I'll need a very big vice to press the bush in
--------------------------------------------------------

You have a seperate rubber for this mounting?

Not yet... later this week if Simon and the mail is as quick as they usually are.

Just reread my post... think I was a bit fast here... edited ;)

I fixed the engine mount today. The rubber was pressed into a spare engine mount, which I got already stripped on eBay some time ago. A friend did the pressing in his garage as it is not a job that can be done in a vice.

Removing and replacing the engine mount is not a quick and easy job, but it is do-able with care and a little patience - even by a ten thumbed amateur like me ;)

The result is very good, and I can now actually see who's driving behind me in the rear view mirror, even when the engine is idling ;). Cabin noise is also reduced, and my sons say the vibrations in seats are gone. I never felt the vibrations much in the drivers seat.

Here's a few photos for everyone's enjoyment:

(http://gallery.dinsen.net/d/3331-2/DSC_0637.JPG)
Rubber and mount, not yet pressed together. No, I don't do race cars, but I like to read about them! :D

(http://gallery.dinsen.net/d/3358-2/DSC_0702.JPG)
Failed engine mount.

(http://gallery.dinsen.net/d/3334-2/DSC_0696.JPG)
New rubber installed

(http://gallery.dinsen.net/d/3352-2/DSC_0699.JPG)
Almost there...

Is that 100+euro rubber from Simon/Will?

Yes.

Due to my stabiliser bar bush perishing, one of those 3 bolts that hold the bottom mounting to the sump has snapped.
I hope the 2 remaining ones are strong enough!

The two outer holes have bushes that fixes the bottom mounting to the sump, so the bolts only actually have to hold it in, they don't take the vertical load. You should be all right for a while!

Well, I wasn't and the bolts failed again. I have got it sorted now; larger, tapped holes and larger bolts should hold it solid!

Next job is to get the carbs tuned properly.

Or the while was just a brief while? ;)


I bought a used mount off eBay which I used for the new rubber, and I noticed it came with smaller bolts than were on my engine already - I think they may have been tapped up too. Roy?


Rolling road this time?

Yes rolling road. Just checking out the best in the area as I have severely disappointed in the past.

Although the car is giong extremely well at the moment (hence the broken engine mounting bolts!) so I'm scared they will ruin it.

It will be interesting to see what you can achieve on the cam.


That's the sprit! 8)

I had a look at mine lat night and mine seems to be in a similar state, while you guys had this problem did you experience increased banging from that side of the car.. A loud metal on metal bang.. The roads in Sheffield are so bad.. Its not the brakes are far as i can tell, and i cant find anything alse loose in this area so i guess ive just talked myself in to spending another £111. Doh

Hey David..
I in the past I have had a metallic "bang"'ish sound form that part of the car when ever I was braking or setting off... First I suspected the driveshafts, then just about everything else...
It turned out, that the bolt securing the upper engine stabilizer to the bulkhead had worked its mounting "round" thus the ban I heard was when the bolt slipped back and forth..

Well i'd like to say its the brakes but all the anti rattle springs are fitted, but the noise doesnt happen if the brakes are on????

Yep I recognise this.
Put antirattle springs on both sites (upside and downside) of the pads.
The pads on the caliper has to much play for 1 spring because of wear.
If you do that the pads keep in a central place and can't rattle.
Another solution is to find springs that are a bit bigger and push the pads a bit more up.
You also can place the  springs in a wrong position.(see first pic)
That also will stop the rattle.
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2200/rem1006mf3.jpg)

And if you buy a compleet kit you find this for the outside pads and is a modification

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2683/rem1004smallbk0.jpg)

Stupid enough they didn't make it for the inside pads, but on the other hand there isn't much space on the inside for it.