MatraSport Forum

Each model => Murena => Topic started by: davidewanprice on April 01, 2008, 03:26:23 pm



Title: Passenger side electric window
Post by: davidewanprice on April 01, 2008, 03:26:23 pm
The passenger side electric window has been playing up for years now and i really want it fixing. If you lower the window its very slow, raising once you've done this is even slower!  sometimes making a clicking noise, and when the window reaches  the top, the motor clicks like the mechanism is slipping. The driver side just stops, no noise.

Ive disconected the glass and let the mechanism work without load and it seems fine, the glass seems to move fairly freely in the channels (when raising and lowering by hand). So does this mean its just a tired motor or maybe a broken cog inside? slipping under strss of the load?

I was going to reove the motor but am not sure how. Can someone advise?


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: phil75 on April 01, 2008, 05:01:09 pm
I think that the engine is very tired.

I had the same symptoms on mine before it ceases functioning definitively.

But I did not have time to look at more closely.

On the other hand last week I bought a mechanism with engine of Renault 9

First note : the engine is identical with that of the murena (even reference engraved above)

and second notice :  the mechanisms are similar




Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: phil75 on April 01, 2008, 05:05:02 pm
Here are in photographs that of the murena:
(http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8229/vitredavidnc4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/29/77/22/dsc00810.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=139&u=11297722)

(http://i49.servimg.com/u/f49/11/29/77/22/dsc00811.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=140&u=11297722)

Here are in photographs that of the Renault 9 :
(http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/4734/vitrephilr9tr5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

(http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/09/01/17/84/imgp0215.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1928&u=10011784)

(http://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/09/01/17/84/imgp0216.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=1929&u=10011784)

reference of the engine : Bosch 0 130 821 046


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: davidewanprice on April 01, 2008, 08:25:43 pm
Thanks for the pictures, would you say its work the effort to try to fix it, im thinking even if i find the fault, the part won't be available, except if i buy the full motor? thats if i can get that?


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: phil75 on April 01, 2008, 10:49:01 pm
I believe that the mechanism is not available any more, the engine him must be for approximately 80Ä, I have pay that of Renault 9 10Ä (used)  ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: hru on April 02, 2008, 08:35:44 pm
The passenger side electric window has been playing up for years now and i really want it fixing. If you lower the window its very slow, raising once you've done this is even slower!  sometimes making a clicking noise, and when the window reaches  the top, the motor clicks like the mechanism is slipping. The driver side just stops, no noise.

Ive disconected the glass and let the mechanism work without load and it seems fine, the glass seems to move fairly freely in the channels (when raising and lowering by hand). So does this mean its just a tired motor or maybe a broken cog inside? slipping under strss of the load?

I was going to remove the motor but am not sure how. Can someone advise?

Hi David

You should take a look at
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?topic=773.0
(you must log in to see the pictures)
I have renovated the motors, it can be done and also cheap.

I have another problem also, which is the broken tooth wheel - this is not easy  :(

/Henrik


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: Oetker on April 02, 2008, 10:52:18 pm
Lubricating everything will help, but the motor wil not get back to the original power.
In time a electical motor will lose EMK (electrical motorpower).
That is caused by losing Magnetisme over time.
However you can gain a lot by waxing windowslides and frame, and put in new silcon grease in the gearbox and slider.
Also cleaning the motor and lubricating will help.


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: davidewanprice on April 04, 2008, 06:07:48 pm
I'll try and remove it later and see whats to do, thanks for the info..


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: davidewanprice on April 27, 2008, 09:40:37 pm
Ok today was D day, I took my time and took out the motor etc and cleaned everything and put it back, i didnt take the motor to bits as i couldnt see an easy way in. Anyway i cleaned it as best i could and cleaned the inner door runners and put it back.... Doh, no improvement, guess im going to have to look out for a new system.. If anyone see's one do let me know. Thanks guys, David


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: Oetker on April 28, 2008, 12:03:52 am
If you did all that, and the system is running smoothly, only a new motor wil do the trick.
That can be difficult.
I don't need to replace the system yet, but I am on the lookout for something that wil fit.
I am not at the point yet that I have exact sizes of all things, but looking around my eye did fall on the Ford Ka systemfrom around 96.
Angle and fitting does look it may be a alternative with some adjustments.
Not sure that its possible, but will find out in time.
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7756/kaliftay8.jpg)


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: davidewanprice on November 21, 2008, 07:11:07 pm
Is there anyone with progress on this topic?

Ive asked Matra Magic if he has an original motor but no can do...



Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: RazorbackNOR on November 21, 2008, 08:13:13 pm
What about Simon, anybody checked there?


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: murramor on November 22, 2008, 11:39:07 pm
I believe that the mechanism is not available any more, the engine him must be for approximately 80Ä,  ;D ;D ;D


My French is bad but I believe there is a new electric motor which came on to eBay today.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290277264409&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:AU:1123



Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: roy4matra on November 23, 2008, 07:05:24 pm
The passenger side electric window has been playing up for years now and i really want it fixing. If you lower the window its very slow, raising once you've done this is even slower!  sometimes making a clicking noise, and when the window reaches  the top, the motor clicks like the mechanism is slipping. The driver side just stops, no noise.

Ive disconected the glass and let the mechanism work without load and it seems fine, the glass seems to move fairly freely in the channels (when raising and lowering by hand). So does this mean its just a tired motor or maybe a broken cog inside? slipping under strss of the load?

Yes the motor is probably the real fault.  The mechanism is rarely at fault from my experience.  And the clicking is also a common problem - see my FAQ's for the low-down.

Quote
I was going to reove the motor but am not sure how. Can someone advise?

That is also explained in my FAQ's  However, it was only finished recently so I do accept that it may not have been there when you last visited.  Another reason to at least check the index page occasionally.

One suggestion here to you and others.  Since you don't really need an electric window on the drivers side (which is easy to reach and work) but an electric one on the passenger side is almost a must as it is out of reach, and in the UK at least it is often the one you need for tolls, booths, etc. why not do what Mercedes used to do and I did with mine.  Change the drivers door to manual (plenty of these available as every wanted electric!) and then you can use your good motor on the passenger side.

Roy


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: Jon Weywadt on January 29, 2009, 09:59:37 pm
Hi all.

I am new to the forum and new owner of a Murena. But I have helped a friend restoring his Murena and one thing I did on it, was fix the passengerside electric window. When it worked it was very slow. This turned out to be caused by all the gunk that had build up, over the years, in the guides and on the edges of the window. Removing the glass and cleaning everything, made it work great (when it worked) After putting everything back together it didn't work at all. After much troubleshooting, we found that the reason it was not getting power, was that the wire feeding the power to the window switch had falen off, ON THE DRIVERS SIDE. It turns out that the passenger window get its power from a wire connected to the driver side window switch. Squeezing the terminal for a tighter fit solved the problem.


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: Bart_Maztra on February 22, 2009, 06:08:21 pm
Just fixed my power window (passenger side) today.

I took the complete mechanism out. Then i noticed that the window slides very easily up/down in de sliders. Just to be sure i sprayed silicon spray in the sliders.
I have drown the motor with wd40. The collector and the carbon brushes seemed Ok to me The steel cable and sprocket are also drown with teflon spray.

Result: the window goes up and down again :) And quite fast aswell!


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: Matraman on May 27, 2020, 09:16:24 am
It's an old thread now, but can anyone tell me how to extract the window mechanism from the door? I've managed to source a brand new Renault 9 regulator and motor. I've tried just fitting the motor but the mechanism is still slowing it right down. I'd like to get it all out and give the whole lot a clean or use all/part of the new mechanism. The problem is the guide tube passes through the door handle bracket so I can't slide the mechanism out.

Do I remove the door handle bracket or dismantle the window mechanism? Or am I missing an easier solution. Any help gratefully received 🙂


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: TELBOY on May 27, 2020, 08:05:51 pm
Please dont cut the door about as someone did on mine! . Roy is the expert on this but......this is how I did it. Remove door interior door handle , if the motor is stuck unbolt the three bolts and disconnect the motor, on the end of the motor you will see two screws that hold the motor body to the actuator, undo these and remove the motor away from its housing, push the window down so the bolts holding the window into the actuator can be undone through the large gap at the bottom of the door. push the window up and it can be angled and removed. Undo the two bolts that hold the mechanism upright. There is a small nut on the underside of the door that bolts to the actuator at the bottom. Once these are removed the entire mechanism including the remainder of the motor can be wriggled out by moving the bottom of the actuator to the right and the upper part to the left and it will fall to the bottom of the door and can be removed through the large gap. If you have to force anything you have done it wrong. Be patient it does come out easily once you get the hang of it.
The renault 9 actuator is not a straight swap. The motor will be in a different place as I found out. If you are just swapping the motor, at the other end of where the motor spindle goes into the housing you will see a small grub screw, this will need adjusting to allow for the slightly longer motor shaft, slacken right out fit the motor then do up until you feel resistance then undo quarter turn.
See my blog (EOW1W) PAGE 7 AND 18


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: Matraman on May 27, 2020, 11:13:06 pm
Thanks for the response. Iíve had the mechanism loose several times and have managed to get the motor in and out. The main point which helps me is knowing that I need to remove the inner door handle, which I havenít done yet. I assume I donít need to drill out the rivets in that area, but just release the lock washers at the top and bottom of the handle pivots. Does that sound right?


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: TELBOY on May 27, 2020, 11:45:15 pm
The metal.part.on mine was boltet in so presumably if it riveted yes u will have to drill them out. Check the grub screw first as if its too tight on the shaft it will prevent the motor from turning freely. If you look on.my page 7 there is a good.pboto of it or where it has been removed before i fitted the new.motor


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: Matraman on May 28, 2020, 10:51:19 am
Just to clarify, I'm talking about removing the door release handle, not the grab handle used for pulling the door shut. The grab handle was 2 easy bolts, the release handle looks more complicated. There's a metal frame which supports the release handle and the white tube part of the window mechanism passes right through this frame. If I slide it through this frame one way the window lifter won't go through, if I go back the other way the actuator won't go through. Maybe it just unhooks somewhere at the back out of sight, like the hook at the top of the door which supports the window lifter?


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: TELBOY on May 28, 2020, 02:41:55 pm
Sorry didnt explain it well. The metal part.that is (inyour case ) is riveted.to.the door needs to be removed. As the tube passes through it. but before you do all this check the grub screw is not too tight and preventing the motor from turning freely. The renault 9 motor.has a slightly longer shaft so if you didnt slacken off the grub screw it will be pressing against it and massivly compromising performane


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: roy4matra on May 28, 2020, 06:42:14 pm
Just to clarify, I'm talking about removing the door release handle, not the grab handle used for pulling the door shut. The grab handle was 2 easy bolts, the release handle looks more complicated. There's a metal frame which supports the release handle and the white tube part of the window mechanism passes right through this frame. If I slide it through this frame one way the window lifter won't go through, if I go back the other way the actuator won't go through. Maybe it just unhooks somewhere at the back out of sight, like the hook at the top of the door which supports the window lifter?

Hold on a minute.  You shouldn't need to remove the door release metal plate, from an original electric window mechanism at all, I never have, and I've had these mechanisms out on these doors many times.  It's a while since the last time and I'll have to go have a look at mine to refresh my memory, but you shouldn't need to undo anything except the door pull handle, the three motor mount bobbins, the window glass and the upright runner.  You unhook the plastic at the top from behind the alloy clip so you don't need to drill that rivet at all.  You disconnect the wring plug from the motor, and the whole mechanism including the motor should come out through the large opening along the bottom of the door.

I've even taken these out on the side of the road with nothing more than a screwdriver and 10 mm spanner so that should tell you how easy it can be.

Roy


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: TELBOY on May 28, 2020, 07:53:36 pm
I think we are calling the same thing different names Roy. I had to remove the metal plate that the the interior door handle fits to. The tube for the worm drive passed behind one of the mounts and in front of the other. However on my two cars these mounts were different (possibly because the white one had manual winders and the black one may have originally had electric windows)


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: roy4matra on May 28, 2020, 10:54:52 pm
I think we are calling the same thing different names Roy. I had to remove the metal plate that the the interior door handle fits to. The tube for the worm drive passed behind one of the mounts and in front of the other. However on my two cars these mounts were different (possibly because the white one had manual winders and the black one may have originally had electric windows)

I know what piece you are talking about Terry, but you do not need to remove it to get the electric window mechanism out.  Until I can check mine tomorrow I can't give you the details as I need to refresh my memory, but I'm sure mine also has the worm cable tube passing there but you can still get it out.  It may be yours was routed incorrectly if you had to remove it, but I will check and take photos tomorrow if I can.

Roy


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: JV on May 29, 2020, 07:24:06 pm
I'm also eager to know as I have to repair or replace the motor of the window mechanism left side.


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: Matraman on May 31, 2020, 09:50:43 am
With a combination of a new motor, adjustment of the regulator screw (thanks TELBOY) and copious amounts of WD40 I now have a properly functioning electric window on the driver's side. Very useful in this hot weather!
Even though I may not now need to, I still can't see how to extract the whole mechanism without releasing the door opener support bracket or bending it significantly, the attached photo shows the bracket and the white tube passing between it and the inner door skin. This is the same on the other door as well, so probably not a mistake by someone fiddling with it previously.
The passenger door's window was completely dead, but there was power there. After giving it the same WD40 and regulator screw treatment as the driver's door it's coming back to life. The thermal cutout on this old motor isn't as slow to recover as the old driver's door motor was, so it's easier to get the lubricant in there. I'll hopefully get it finished soon, put the door cards on and get to the MOT station for its first visit in 21 years!


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: TELBOY on May 31, 2020, 02:48:58 pm
Well done matraman. Good luck on the mot. Am not too far behind you. You may need to resize your photo


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: roy4matra on May 31, 2020, 07:13:08 pm
With a combination of a new motor, adjustment of the regulator screw (thanks TELBOY) and copious amounts of WD40 I now have a properly functioning electric window on the driver's side. Very useful in this hot weather!
Even though I may not now need to, I still can't see how to extract the whole mechanism without releasing the door opener support bracket or bending it significantly, the attached photo shows the bracket and the white tube passing between it and the inner door skin. This is the same on the other door as well, so probably not a mistake by someone fiddling with it previously.

I have removed my drivers door trim panel (I can't get at the passenger door in the garage) and taken this photo which shows the 'white tube' through which the worm slides, passing in front of one fastening of the panel to the door.  You can see the space around is just enough to wriggle the mechanism through, provided you have removed the motor.  Of course the Renault substitute might not go through as I haven't seen one and have no idea what its exact shape and size is.  I've had this car from new and never taken it out so it is exactly as it came from the factory.

However, as you have now got it working, well done.  (perhaps you would remove that huge photo though and replace it with one scaled to no more than 800 pixels wide, please!  Thank you.)

Quote
The passenger door's window was completely dead, but there was power there. After giving it the same WD40 and regulator screw treatment as the driver's door it's coming back to life. The thermal cutout on this old motor isn't as slow to recover as the old driver's door motor was, so it's easier to get the lubricant in there. I'll hopefully get it finished soon, put the door cards on and get to the MOT station for its first visit in 21 years!

Remember that the feeds and earths to the passenger door switch pass through the switch on the drivers door so BOTH must work properly.  Many owners miss this fact when checking why the passenger window doesn't work.  Fortunately this wasn't one of your problems.

Update, now I have downloaded and reduced your photo so I can make it out fully, I can see that the opening in my door where the plate is attached is larger than yours, which may be the reason I can get mine out!  If the hole is smaller then it would present more of an obstacle, and probably require the removal of the plate first.  Obviously Matra didn't stick to a standard when assembling these cars!! :)

Roy


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: Matraman on June 03, 2020, 10:18:44 am
Hi Roy
Thanks for that photo, it shows that the handle hole in your inner door skin is much larger than the holes on both my doors. Where the door pull bolts attach on mine is behind the inner door skin and the bolts go through holes in the skin. It explains my problem. They must have tried a different style of inner skin at some point in 1983.

Apologies for the massive photo previously but Iíve no idea how to modify or even delete it. Newbie problem 🙄


Title: Re: Passenger side electric window
Post by: roy4matra on June 03, 2020, 02:25:23 pm
Apologies for the massive photo previously but Iíve no idea how to modify or even delete it. Newbie problem 🙄

It looks like Anders has already done it, but for future reference for any poster to the forum, any photo you are going to upload should not be the original (which is usually massive these days of 16 mega pixel and more cameras!)  So make a copy of the photo first, and then alter the copy to a maximum of 960 pixels wide, and then when you select the photo to upload to the forum, that is the one you select.

If you don't know how to alter your graphic sizes or resolutions, then I suggest you find out.  I can't give you details here as it will depend on what system you are using (Mac, Windows, Linux or even something else) and what program you use on your system.  But they all have the means to alter their parameters.

Just a thought but if you are taking the picture on a 'smart'phone, again the photo will probably be much too big but as I don't use one of these dumb things, I have no idea how they work.  But whatever, do not upload directly from a phone, unless you have reduced its size.  Someone else here will have to describe how that can be done.  Personally I would think the best way is to download the photo to a computer and do the alteration on the computer, but may be there is a way on the phone??

Thank you.

Roy