MatraSport Forum

Each model => Espace => Topic started by: ross on April 14, 2008, 07:35:37 pm



Title: taking the engine out
Post by: ross on April 14, 2008, 07:35:37 pm
I am just about ready to remove the engine from my 2000(W reg) 2.2 dti Espace, as I am trying to replace the heater matrix's.
Has anyone any tips on the best method to employ when lowering the engine out of the body.
It looks almost impossible to get an engine hoist in above the engine in its normal position, so is it a case of supporting the engine and gearbox on trolley jacks on the underneath and lowering it too the ground ?
I have removed all the front end of the car to give access to the engine and gearbox and all that is left is to remove the driveshafts to release the unit.
I thought it best to ask for advice before letting the engine mounts go and causing some sort of unforseen problem.
Any help would be appreciated.
Ross


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 14, 2008, 10:16:51 pm
Hi Ross

I'm not sure I get you right here: You want to remove the engine to replace the heater matrix'es? They are fitted in the passenger compartment (one either side) - no need to work in the engine room to replace them!

But if you still want to take the engine out: There's really no other way for it to get out besides downwards. I.e. lift the car off the drive train. You might be able to get it out the front, though, if you remove the front bumper, lights, radiator, air con condenser and everything else from the front of the engine, but you would probably have to split it from the gearbox.

- Anders


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: roy4matra on April 17, 2008, 03:08:15 am
I am just about ready to remove the engine from my 2000(W reg) 2.2 dti Espace, as I am trying to replace the heater matrix's...
Ross

Stop immediately Ross.  You do not remove the engine to change the heater matrices.  They are accessed from inside the car.  Removing the powertrain will be a waste of time.  You have to remove the whole dash assembly.  There is a special tool that allows the complete assembly to be slid back and up to get at, and change these, without actually removing it completely, but this is not really a DIY job.

Roy


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ross on April 17, 2008, 09:50:23 pm
Thanks Anders, and especially you Roy for your response to my query.

I don't have much option, if I want to get my heater system working once again, than to have a go at it myself, as we all know how much a Garage would charge for such a task and it would be much more than I can afford.

You state that it is unnecessary to remove the engine, but how on earth can you get at the hose joints on the end on the matrix's ?

As I stated, the engine is only held in by the mounting bolts and it is still impossible to even see the heater matrix hose joints let alone release them.

I will tackle the dash board when I have the engine out, but I don't expect it will be any easier, but what on a Renault is ?

Is that why we love them ?

My plan is now to lower the car until the engine is resting in a cradle I have made, then I will release the engine mounts and lift the body up and off.

It seems like a cunning plan !

Weather permitting I will try it on Saturday.

Keep in touch.

Regards

Ross


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ESPACED on April 18, 2008, 12:10:21 am
Hi Ross,
taking an espace engine out is a pig....
if there is any way of fixing your matrix without removing the engine, take my word for it  and do it...
I've taken my engine out and beleive me its no fun and takes for ever.. the only differance is I had to remove my..
anyway best of luck in what you decide to do..
best regards
Tony


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 18, 2008, 06:52:18 am
Weather permitting I will try it on Saturday.

Don't do it. Start with the dash board and you will find that the heater matrixes are joined to the hoses inside the cabin. I'm not sure I agree it's not a DIY job - it's not an easy job, bit it's do-able, and I know at least one DIY'er who has done it. This is a heater matrix:

(http://www.espace-freunde.de/users/mustafa/bilder-datenbank/je/elekt/hannes/DSCF0108.jpg)

I haven't been able to find a description of the job online, but it's all described in the french guide from ETAI http://www.etai.fr/ (http://www.etai.fr/) Revue Technique on Renault Espace depuis 1997.


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ross on April 18, 2008, 08:58:18 pm
Thankyou Gentlemen for your sincere advice, but as Magnus Magnusson would have said "I've started so I'll finish".
I am puzzled to hear that it is possible to replace the matrix's without getting at the hose joints at the back of the engine bay.
I have a couple of other tasks to do so taking the engine out is not just for the matrix's but I thought it was necessary.
So far it has been fairly straight forward, and follows much the same pattern as when I took my old Laguna Diesel Engine out.
The only difference I can see is that I lifted the Laguna Engine out and the Espace engine will need to be dropped down and rested on a cradle and then the body lifted off it.
It should all happen tomorrow, weather permitting, so I'll let you know how it went.
Many thanks.
Regards
Ross


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: roy4matra on April 19, 2008, 05:38:58 pm
Thankyou Gentlemen for your sincere advice, but as Magnus Magnusson would have said "I've started so I'll finish".
I am puzzled to hear that it is possible to replace the matrix's without getting at the hose joints at the back of the engine bay.

That's because of two things.  The connections in the engine compartment are a simple 'push button quick release' type coupling not a worm or crimp clip as with other joints, and there is a special tool for the more inaccessible side.  I understand what you mean about cost verses DIY but I'm just pointing out how difficult it will be without the knowledge, tools, and experience.  Since you are going to do it anyway, take it slowly, carefully, take photos as you go along and don't force anything - if something won't come then you have probably missed something.  Label all the various screws as they are different lengths and threads (some are self tapping and others are proper threads) and you will not get them all back correctly from memory.

Roy


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ross on April 19, 2008, 06:38:01 pm
Thanks for the words of advice Roy.
I certainly am taking it slowly, but all the screws are in a plastic tub so I hope I can remember where they all came from.
The weather has been dreadful here today so rain has stopped play.
Are the special tools necessary to disconnect the hoses from the matrix pipes, or are they just needed because the pipes are nomally unaccessable ?
I hope that with the engine out I will be able to climb into the engine compartment and get at the pipes more easily.
Lets hope the weather improves for tomorrow.
Regards
Ross


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ross on April 26, 2008, 06:56:29 pm
Hi All,
Just thought I would give an update on my efforts so far in my quest to replace the Heater Matrix's.
The Engine is now sitting on the ground, which has given me enough room to reach in and unclip the hose conections from the Heater Matrix flow and return pipes.
I was hoping to be able to remove the engine completely but the body of the car needs to be raised to an impossible height to get the engine under the front chassis cross member.
The task has gone fairly well so far with no major problems other than the aircon radiator delaminating and losing its fins, so I have had to cable tie it together.
What's a few fins more or less !
If the weather holds I will start on the Dashboard tomorrow.
Regards
Ross


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: Anders Dinsen on April 26, 2008, 09:40:19 pm
Good to read your update. I hope the weather will be with you and you'll get the job done well!

Cheers,
Anders


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: renaultbiler on April 29, 2008, 11:03:10 am
Here is a description on matrix exchange i did some time ago:
http://www.matrasport.dk/forum/index.php?topic=724.msg5589#msg5589



Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ross on May 01, 2008, 08:13:36 pm
Hi All,
Sorry for the delay in letting you know how the job is progressing, but I don't get much spare time during the week.
Nice to hear from Anders and Renaultbiler, and I have read your account of the replacement of the Heater Matix's in your Espace.
My Espace looks in a very sorry state with all the front end missing, the engine sitting on the floor and the dashboard in a heap in the back of the car.
I have never seen so many screws, I hope I don't have too many left when its all back together.
I am hoping to resume the extraction of the Heater Matrix assembly tomorrow, as I got as far as trying to lift the cross member that carries the Heater Matrix's out last weekend and it didn't want to budge.
I have removed all the bolts, even the ones through the inner wings but I think I still need to release the plates where the Heater matrix pipes go through the engine compartment bulkhead, well thats my next task.
Why on earth Renault didn't put the screws that hold the air boxes on the outside of the cross member so that you could undo them and lift just the cross member out, I do not know !
If I thought I would have to do the job again in the furure I would modify the mounting arrangement to make it much easier to take out a second time.
So far there has only been one small breakage, and that was one of the plastic rods that operate the air flap when you turn the thumb wheel on the dashboard.
Didn't know they were attached to the front panel so I pulled too hard and broke the first one.
29 + vat for a replacement, it's almost daylight robbery !
Lets hope I don't break too much more.
I will try to photograph the stages of the assembly of the dashboard, and add a few comments so that anyone else attempting the job can benefit from my experience.
So long for now.
Regards
Ross


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ESPACED on October 29, 2009, 10:51:20 pm
Hi Ross
where are those pictures :D  I need to sort my heaters matrix out and I'm waiting on your info before i start...
I just hope you took those pictures...
you did put it all back together again didn't you?
cheers
Tony


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ross on October 31, 2009, 07:55:29 pm
hi Tony,

like all things, once the panic was over I never got around to sorting the pictures out, but if memory serves they should still be on my digi camera so I will check.

I am not sure how to load pictures onto the blog, but I am sure someone will let me know, and if not I can email them to you if you would prefer.

I did complete the job, but it is not one I would like to have to do again.

There are a couple of things to be careful of when taking the car apart, especially under the dashboard, as some of the plastics are fairly fragile and costly to replace, as I found to my cost.

I took the oportunity to replace some other parts whilst replacing the heater matrix's which made taking the engine out a worthwhile exercise, and I stripped the dashboard down rather than trying to haul it up and back, which is the way the local Renault man said he does it.

I will be in touch as soon as I can.

Regards

Ross


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ESPACED on November 01, 2009, 12:49:19 pm
Hi Ross,
pictures would be great, did a rebuild on my engine last year and realy do not want to take it out a gain if possible
Have stripe dash down, well the bottom part only, but  was unclear how to take the matrix out on the drives side.. also very difficult to see under the bonnet elease the wahow to r


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ESPACED on November 01, 2009, 12:55:15 pm
Hi Ross,
don't ask me how that happened, lap top acting a little crazy?
pictures would be great, did a rebuild on my engine last year and realy do not want to take it out a gain if possible
Have stripe dash down, well the bottom part only, but  was unclear how to take the matrix out on the drives side.. also very difficult to see under the bonnet  how to re lease the water pipes.. help would be great..
many thanks

Tony

p.s.
why is this LAP TOP doing strange things?


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: roy4matra on November 07, 2009, 04:49:44 pm
I did a rebuild on my engine last year and really do not want to take it out again...

Tony, you definitely do not have to take the engine out to change either side matrix.  You do have to strip the dash though which is a big job.

Quote
... also very difficult to see under the bonnet how to release the water pipes.. help would be great..
many thanks

The clips have a 'button' which you press in, which then releases the hose lock from the pipe and you can pull the hose off.  Effectively the pipe has a groove around it near the end and the hose/clip locks into this groove.  The important point if you remove any of these type joints, is to really make sure they have locked in again when refitted.  If they are not locked, the hose can blow off when the cooling system comes up to full pressure, and you loose your coolant!  I have seen vehicles towed in where this has happened.  The owner thought the hose was tight, but it wasn't locked properly.

Roy


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ross on January 18, 2010, 10:49:41 pm
hi Tony,  I have sent a batch of photos showing various stages of my engine removal process, but I haven't seen them on the blog yet, or I don't know where to look.
I am still writing the instructions, but it is a longer process than I first thought.
Have you had a go at replacing your heater matrix's yet ?
Regards
Ross


Title: Re: taking the engine out
Post by: ESPACED on January 24, 2010, 10:15:21 pm
Hi Ross..
all done now.. cost me a small futune as I gave it to a machanic I know, to cold for me to work on a car in December , the heaters are great now replaced both heater matrics...
thanks for asking
cheers Tony